Kyrie's take on Bill Simmons.

[QUOTE=RRR3]Look, Pup is usually a funny guy and knows his shit more than he lets on at times, but he's still a Kobe troll. And his agenda here is acting like only former players know anything because a lot of former players have said things he clutches onto as "proof" that Kobe is one of, if not the GOAT. [B]He wants to act like everyone on ISH couldn't possibly know anything about the NBA because people on ISH don't play professional ball, for the most part[/B].[/QUOTE]


:facepalm


- because I responded to 1 Kobe Bashing thread about FG%!!!....that's why you are so Buthurt?


- I was responding to Bill Simmons....who is acting like he knows more about Basketball then Magic F'ing Johnson....

- If me explaining why a guy who barely ever played basketball shouldn't be taken seriously vs "real Players"...makes you insecure.....then I totally understand.....

- You and Bill are 1 in the same......2 guy's with no understanding of basketball....just bashing other players to get points.

tired and silly........seriously...log off and get some sun you pale bastard.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]Evidence points to pro players being more found of coaches with playing experience. ESPECIALLY FOOTBALL. In basketball too though it's hard to communicate with someone that hasn't done what they are telling you to do.

It makes you more effective and makes your words hold more weight.[/QUOTE]

Sure, but there are still plenty of good basketball coaches who haven't played professionally themselves.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]Sure, but there are still plenty of good basketball coaches who haven't played professionally themselves.[/QUOTE]


True....but I'm pretty sure they all Played basketball at many levels and were around coaching most of thier lives.

[QUOTE=kurt_rambis]doesn't have anything to do with anything, but it's funny that kyrie has a link to his twitter page on his twitter page

[IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/157mcz9.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Hahaha great find. :lol

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]Sure, but there are still plenty of good basketball coaches who haven't played professionally themselves.[/QUOTE]


Sure, and when there is anything to scrutinize, an NBA player will point out that they do not have NBA experience. It is what it is.

Lawrence Frank and Tom Thibs have a harder road than most NBA coaches and it should be like that because they need to pay dues.

unfortunate... I love Bill Simmons and I love Kyrie Irving, too bad Kyrie's being a little B

Well good players don't neccessarily make good critics, eh? Hence Shaq and half of the of crews on pre-game shows.
Well good coaches don't neccesserily have had outstanding careers as a players, right?
And vice-vice-versa.

judging an analyst shouldn't be based on their background but on what they actually had to say. a lot of player-analysts that "played the game" and should therefore "know more than the non-players" spouts a lot of nonsense while a lot of non-player analysts give a lot of deep insights.

being a player or non-player shouldn't be a factor when criticizing analysts. it's what they say that should be judged.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]- Van Gundy has been around basketbal his whole life...literally.....

- ...van Gundy actually played D3 basketball....

- Van Gundy's Father was a coach...Van Gundy has bee around basketball/coaching his entire life...and he has been playing basketball at different levels his entire life...

- Of course he doesn't have the talent to be a Pro...but he aquired the necassary knowledge throuh a Lifetime of expierience...and has played /aquired skill ( I seen his dribbling shooting videos) to understand the game.

- Bill Simmons has not...not even 1/90th the baqsketball knowledge of stan van gundy.[/QUOTE]

What about Sam Presti and Daryl Morey? Neither played college basketball, neither had a basketball family, and both built cheap, young, playoff teams.

The idea that you need to have played basktball at a high level to understand the game is what leads GMs like MJ and McHale

[QUOTE=Bodhi]What about Sam Presti and Daryl Morey? Neither played college basketball, neither had a basketball family, and both built cheap, young, playoff teams.

The idea that you need to have played basktball at a high level to understand the game is what leads GMs like MJ and McHale[/QUOTE]


- I would say Bieng a GM is apple/oranges....especially when they aren't the ones scouting the players 100% of the time.

and really?....Taking KD wasn't Rocket science....

- now put Sam Presti on the sidelines and let him tell Pro Players how to play every possesion....

- just as any sport...he prolly had a great team of scouts and plenty of people who know basketball to help them build the team they currently have.

- When Sam Presti picks the next Dirk from a bunch of highschool kids overseas...then holla at me.....until then he is just relying on people much more knowledgable then him to guide him.

You don't realize how hard a lot of things in basketball are until you play it.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]This. Why do you think the lion's share of coaches have played in the pros?

[LIST][*] You don't get respect by talking about stuff you've never done in the sports world. Guys like Van Gundy don't get respect because frankly, how can you call out your players for not being active and energetic when you yourself are a lazy slob?
[*] Experience is a better teacher than anything. A coach that has played AND studied the game is bound to be better than just someone who has studied the game all things considered.
[*] Would you let a 450 lb smoker with poor hygeine train you? I think not.[/LIST][/QUOTE]


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-GoR28LILo[/url]


Probably got better handle than you. :coleman:



Seriously tho, for a middle aged man, he's really not that massive, fat, sure, but not morbidly obese or anything.

I don't think you have to play the game to know it.

Boxing is my favorite sport, by far, to watch and analyze. I can go back and forth with anyone when discussing strategy, styles, outcomes, etc. I've won money betting and I can't remember the last time I made a pick with any type of confidence and was wrong. Even when I lose the occasional wager, it's not because my guy lost, it's because I picked the under and he didn't get the KO (other guy fought scared or not to get KO'd, etc).

I've never stepped in a ring in my entire life.

Basketball, on the other hand...that's MY sport. I played it most of my entire life and dare I say it, for my size, I was pretty damn good at it. I can't call a game for shit and every time I say a rookie is gonna be a bust, he ends up being all world.

I've always preferred the opinions of people who have played/coached the game at an elite level. Even when they say stupid shit, it's still more insightful than a stat digging journalist most the time.




As for Bill Simmons, I'm sure his bball knowledge would put me to shame, but I still find myself disagreeing with him more often than not.

[QUOTE=Levity]You should consider trying out for the NBA, cause you sure do have a long reach....[/QUOTE]

I don't see he's reaching...Alphapup is a known Kobe troll and Bill Simmons is after all a diehard Celtic fan to boot.

[quote=Levity]Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
Never played or coached a game but a so called expert at observing the game, huh?
[/quote]

LAME.

[QUOTE=bdreason]

As for Bill Simmons, I'm sure his bball knowledge would put me to shame, but I still find myself disagreeing with him more often than not.[/QUOTE]

THat's because you're a lakerfan.

Bill Simmons is a ****ing idiot. Nothing to see here folks.

You do not need to be a chef to know that the food tastes bad.

It is that simple, but human psychology isn't.

[QUOTE=brandonislegend]Bill Simmons is a ****ing idiot. Nothing to see here folks.[/QUOTE]

Read any of his books? He's not an idiot.

I really don't see how being an Nba player automatically gives you credibility, especially when so many players demonstrate over and over again how little they know about the game outside of their little bubble. Shaq thinks Brook Lopez is better than howard. After Kobe's 2006 season Mark Jackson said he was the best player of all time. Barkley being critical of Mike Brown and the Princeton offense then A. It's very similar to the triangle and B. Kobe was the one pushing for it. Jay Williams on the NBA today podcast a couple weeks ago had about an hour long non stop rant proving he knew very little.

Players know the plays their team runs, They know the scouting report on their defensive assignment, and they know the best strip clubs in each city. There are players who opinions I would value (Cp3, Jason Kidd, gasol,) Dirk Derek Fisher.) But on a whole they clearly know much more about their little bubble than the basketball world at large. For instance it would be better to as an anthropologist about a remote south american tribe than it would be to ask the tribe members themselves. They're to wrapped up in their own world to give you a clear perspective.

Why is it that everyone fan knows Lamarcus Aldridge should be playing more back to the basket but he doesn't seem to know it.? How come Kobe is the only person that doesn't know iso Kobe ball doesn't work? How come the whole world was screaming at lebron for years to get a post game before he listened? How come I, a lowly fan, was yelling at my T.v. for westbrook not to lose Parker on the last shot of the spurs game moments before he did lose parker and subsequently lost the game. How come I know when Chris Paul is about to go to the elbow jumper but half the time his defender doesn't?

Simmons might not be right, I have no idea what he said. But Ad Hominem attacks don't help your case a bit.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go finish Tommy Heinsohns book: A Fair and Balanced Perspective on the Celtics Place in History.

[quote=Levity]im with you on that. Its like when actors say, "oh youve never acted in a movie?? then how can you criticize my performance?"

It just seems more like a defensive tactic than anything else.[/quote]This. Calling someone an idiot, because their analysis is wrong is one thing, but just dismissing their opinion, because they haven't excelled playing the sport is stupid and seems to be just a way of deflecting criticism.

[QUOTE=Rockets(T-mac)]This. Calling someone an idiot, because their analysis is wrong is one thing, but just dismissing their opinion, because they haven't excelled playing the sport is stupid and seems to be just a way of deflecting criticism.[/QUOTE]
Yes having what was the best if not best rookie years in a decade and having the year he is having so far he must be trying to reflect criticism

I only played high school basketball, does that mean I'm only qualified to discuss high school ball or can I still post here?

[QUOTE=Breezy]I really don't see how being an Nba player automatically gives you credibility, especially when so many players demonstrate over and over again how little they know about the game outside of their little bubble. Shaq thinks Brook Lopez is better than howard. After Kobe's 2006 season Mark Jackson said he was the best player of all time. Barkley being critical of Mike Brown and the Princeton offense then A. It's very similar to the triangle and B. Kobe was the one pushing for it. Jay Williams on the NBA today podcast a couple weeks ago had about an hour long non stop rant proving he knew very little.

Players know the plays their team runs, They know the scouting report on their defensive assignment, and they know the best strip clubs in each city. There are players who opinions I would value (Cp3, Jason Kidd, gasol,) Dirk Derek Fisher.) But on a whole they clearly know much more about their little bubble than the basketball world at large. For instance it would be better to as an anthropologist about a remote south american tribe than it would be to ask the tribe members themselves. They're to wrapped up in their own world to give you a clear perspective.

Why is it that everyone fan knows Lamarcus Aldridge should be playing more back to the basket but he doesn't seem to know it.? How come Kobe is the only person that doesn't know iso Kobe ball doesn't work? How come the whole world was screaming at lebron for years to get a post game before he listened? How come I, a lowly fan, was yelling at my T.v. for westbrook not to lose Parker on the last shot of the spurs game moments before he did lose parker and subsequently lost the game. How come I know when Chris Paul is about to go to the elbow jumper but half the time his defender doesn't?

Simmons might not be right, I have no idea what he said. But Ad Hominem attacks don't help your case a bit.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go finish Tommy Heinsohns book: A Fair and Balanced Perspective on the Celtics Place in History.[/QUOTE]

I have to say, that was a very good post.

I remember reading this article about Patrick Ewing by David Halberstam (the guy who wrote the preface to that top 50 NBA players book that came out in the 90's). I don't think the guy ever played basketball, but it was a really interesting, insightful look at Pat and different from anything I'd ever heard before considering my family was all big Patrick fans.

and then you have Shaq--who was actually a very intelligent who understood the concept of making his teammates better--saying dumb nonsense all the time.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]This. Why do you think the lion's share of coaches have played in the pros?
[/LIST][/QUOTE]

Lmao, like 95% of NBA coaches are horrible. Most high school girl coaches know more about the game than them. Give me a break, you act like Scott Brooks and Mark Jackson are basketball savants. LOL

Bill has been around basketball longer than Kyrie has lived. And when I say around basketball I don't mean just watching it on TV.

Think Kyrie might be upset about BS calling Tristan Thompson a bust, whenver he mentions kyrie he also mentions Cavs blowing the 4th pick on TT.

I don't like Simmons but still a silly statement from Irving.

He'll never know how it feels to dribble up the court to a bunch of 6-7ft guys protecting the basket like their own wife's hole with thousands of people watching you attack it.

He can only analyze it but no way does he know how it feels. There's two sides to the story.

Also, Irving will never know how it is to get a master's in journalism and analyze from an outsider's point of view as a professional.

[QUOTE=Jolokia]He'll never know how it feels to dribble up the court to a bunch of 6-7ft guys protecting the basket like their own wife's hole with thousands of people watching you attack it.

He can only analyze it but no way does he know how it feels. There's two sides to the story.

Also, Irving will never know how it is to get a master's in journalism and analyze from an outsider's point of view as a professional.[/QUOTE]
Going to Duke (for even a year) I'd say he has a better grasp than you give him credit for.

love it, I love kyrie irving.. some people call it arrogance/youth but I see a lot of confidence and intelligence behind it too.

Kyrie is making an astute observation about the nature of commentating.. most color commentators//announcers/analysts have in fact never played professional ball, they just watched/covered a lot of it and possess the literature/journalism education/background to communicate it to an audience. I think Irving is one of the smart individuals (educated at Duke) who is making a broader statement about the nature of the business vs just attacking one specific commentator.

[QUOTE=Breezy]I really don't see how being an Nba player automatically gives you credibility, especially when so many players demonstrate over and over again how little they know about the game outside of their little bubble. Shaq thinks Brook Lopez is better than howard. After Kobe's 2006 season Mark Jackson said he was the best player of all time. Barkley being critical of Mike Brown and the Princeton offense then A. It's very similar to the triangle and B. Kobe was the one pushing for it. Jay Williams on the NBA today podcast a couple weeks ago had about an hour long non stop rant proving he knew very little.

Players know the plays their team runs, They know the scouting report on their defensive assignment, and they know the best strip clubs in each city. There are players who opinions I would value (Cp3, Jason Kidd, gasol,) Dirk Derek Fisher.) But on a whole they clearly know much more about their little bubble than the basketball world at large. For instance it would be better to as an anthropologist about a remote south american tribe than it would be to ask the tribe members themselves. They're to wrapped up in their own world to give you a clear perspective.

Why is it that everyone fan knows Lamarcus Aldridge should be playing more back to the basket but he doesn't seem to know it.? How come Kobe is the only person that doesn't know iso Kobe ball doesn't work? How come the whole world was screaming at lebron for years to get a post game before he listened? How come I, a lowly fan, was yelling at my T.v. for westbrook not to lose Parker on the last shot of the spurs game moments before he did lose parker and subsequently lost the game. How come I know when Chris Paul is about to go to the elbow jumper but half the time his defender doesn't?

Simmons might not be right, I have no idea what he said. But Ad Hominem attacks don't help your case a bit.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go finish Tommy Heinsohns book: A Fair and Balanced Perspective on the Celtics Place in History.[/QUOTE]


- You are way off on your silly tangent...

- Ask an anthropologists about a certain tribes history (ones that he studied) and he may give you some great answers.....

But ask him how to live in the Jungle.....survive off the land......get water.....hunt?.....who's advice would you want?...

someone from the tribe who's been living in the jungle thier whole life....or an anthropologists who lived in the jungle maybe 2 weeks.

- Players are the ones Playing the game...they know what works....they know to attack 1' away from the defenders reach or 2'...they know how the game's soul and how it's bieng played at that time....

- No way someone who barely plays basketball and just watches knows more then those who spent thier whole lives playing......they might know the history and can resite certain plays....but they


- The tribes men know how to live and thrive off the Land....not an anthropologists...Kobe knows how to play basketball at a level 2nd to no one....and thrive on a basketball court......not Bill Simmons.





:facepalm .....@U......taking advice how to swim from someone who never been in the water......but watched Michael Phelps once on TV.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]- You are way off on your silly tangent...

- Ask an anthropologists about a certain tribes history (ones that he studied) and he may give you some great answers.....

But ask him how to live in the Jungle.....survive off the land......get water.....hunt?.....who's advice would you want?...

someone from the tribe who's been living in the jungle thier whole life....or an anthropologists who lived in the jungle maybe 2 weeks.

- Players are the ones Playing the game...they know what works....they know to attack 1' away from the defenders reach or 2'...they know how the game's soul and how it's bieng played at that time....

- No way someone who barely plays basketball and just watches knows more then those who spent thier whole lives playing......they might know the history and can resite certain plays....but they


- The tribes men know how to live and thrive off the Land....not an anthropologists...Kobe knows how to play basketball at a level 2nd to no one....and thrive on a basketball court......not Bill Simmons.





:facepalm .....@U......taking advice how to swim from someone who never been in the water......but watched Michael Phelps once on TV.[/QUOTE]

:applause: :rockon: :cheers:

Simmons is an expert... but he's still blinded by homerism all the time and he's incredibly annoying on television.

You guys are naive as hell. You dont need a second of basketball playing time in order to understand basketball. I am not too familiar with Bill Simmons.. but basketball is not very complicated. Anyone who studies it for an extended period of time will be able to understand it. Stan Van Gundy can be a fat diabetic slob and still know that a player needs better conditioning to improve his game. Wether the player chooses to listen is on him.


I find it amusing how u guys saying u cant be a good coach without having played... when none of you have coached or played in the NBA. How would you know what it takes to be a good coach? Or even what a good coach is?

You don't need to play a single second of the game in the NBA or college, or shit even high school to be able to evaluate it.

Simmons grew up watching the game, he is very close to it, and he writes like a fan. Granted a very involved, almost OCD "Monk" like fan, but still a fan.

The other thing that Simmons and his cronies, have, that a player or coach might not, is the sabermetric stuff. A GM would have this and I'm certain some coaches do as well but I'm not sure how many of these players are into like these guys.

On that note a GM as an analyst would seem to be the best, save for a general lack of big names in that field.

[QUOTE=Da KO King]Truly silly logic.

At the end of it all the NBA is still basketball. If you understand the game then who cares how you've come to understand it.[/QUOTE]

I think you are the Silly one.

These players and Coaches put their life for the game as for the Fans its just a hobby.

If it was that simple game of Basketball why are you here and Not coaching?

[QUOTE=OhNoTimNoSho]You guys are naive as hell. You dont need a second of basketball playing time in order to understand basketball. I am not too familiar with Bill Simmons.. but basketball is not very complicated. Anyone who studies it for an extended period of time will be able to understand it. Stan Van Gundy can be a fat diabetic slob and still know that a player needs better conditioning to improve his game. Wether the player chooses to listen is on him.


[B][COLOR="Red"]I find it amusing how u guys saying u cant be a good coach without having played... when none of you have coached or played in the NBA. How would you know what it takes to be a good coach? Or even what a good coach is?[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

How are you going to say that and say Basketball is not Complicated. :facepalm

Trust me Kid Basketball is Complicated then you think in the Higher level.

[QUOTE=ZaaaaaH]I think you are the Silly one.

These players and Coaches put their life for the game as for the Fans its just a hobby.

If it was that simple game of Basketball why are you here and Not coaching?[/QUOTE]

So then it becomes even MORE important to have fan based experts in the sport. Otherwise it just becomes people talking about shop, and talking in a way that we can't relate to. A fan writing about a fan's experience is the best option for us no?

And it really is a simple game. I'm not sure why we'd argue this, this is part of it's beauty. Sure it gets more complex, but it's based in simplicity.