This is the 332nd consecutive month with an above-average temperature.

[QUOTE=shlver][B]All respectable scientists[/B] acknowledge that CO2 emissions have a net positive effect on flux, what is blown out of proportion by the media and card stacking environmentalists is the question is the forcing significant, and its not by itself. What is not understood and still open for study are the feedback loops and the earth's response to said increased carbon emissions.[/QUOTE]

Sure. Name these supposed "respectable" scientists, and then compare them to the scientists who claim otherwise.

You're just spewing your own personal opinion, not what "respectable" scientists consider as truth or the most likely possibility to the truth.

[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]Under what authority can you say "it's not by itself"?[/QUOTE]
I can by using simplified assumptions using only radiative forcing of CO2, historical CO2 levels, the energy balance of the earth, and climate sensitivity which are all established published data. I can write out the calculations on paper if you would like.

[QUOTE=shlver]I can by using simplified assumptions using only radiative forcing of CO2, historical CO2 levels, the energy balance of the earth, and climate sensitivity which are all established published data. I can write out the calculations on paper if you would like.[/QUOTE]

Sure, let's see it... and let's see this "all respectable scientists" list you speak of. Are you seriously saying humans do not have an impact on the climate changes we're experiencing, and altering the environment as we know it? You're saying all respectable scientist believe global warming is just blowing smoke, and isn't legit data?

:roll:

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]Sure. Name these supposed "respectable" scientists, and then compare them to the scientists who claim otherwise.

You're just spewing your own personal opinion, not what "respectable" scientists consider as truth or the most likely possibility to the truth.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about? Get out of this thread if you don't know what you're talking about.

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]Sure, let's see it... and let's see this "all respectable scientists" list you speak of. Are you seriously saying humans do not have an impact on the climate changes we're experiencing, and altering the environment as we know it? You're saying all respectable scientist believe global warming is just blowing smoke, and isn't legit data?

:roll:[/QUOTE]
[B]All respectable scientists acknowledge that CO2 emissions have a net positive effect on flux,[/B]
Read. Obviously you don't understand what I'm saying.

[QUOTE=shlver]What are you talking about? Get out of this thread if you don't know what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]

What? I asked you to present facts to the claims you're posting. You're simply trying to avoid what I'm asking with a weak ass attempt saying another poster doesn't know what they're talking about, when it's more than obvious YOU'RE the one who's in the dark.

So, instead of coming up with a pathetic, lame, laughable response as the one I quoted from you above, maybe you should be ready to bring the facts that support what you're claiming.

No?

:no:

(moron)

[QUOTE=shlver][B]All respectable scientists acknowledge that CO2 emissions have a net positive effect on flux,[/B]
Read. Obviously you don't understand what I'm saying.[/QUOTE]

Again, who are all these "ALL RESPECTABLE SCIENTISTS" you speak of? Please enlighten us, and not just some single article URL from a single scientist who is making this claim.

Who are all these "ALL" respectable scientist you speak of?

The polar bears were in absolutely zero danger of being in danger of extinction 100-150 years ago, however due to the Industrial Revolution it's all a different story... yet you claim all these respectable scientists say otherwise.

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]Again, who are all these "ALL RESPECTABLE SCIENTISTS" you speak of? Please enlighten us, and not just some single article URL from a single scientist who is making this claim.

Who are all these "ALL" respectable scientist you speak of?

The polar bears were in absolutely zero danger of being in danger of extinction 100-150 years ago, however due to the Industrial Revolution it's all a different story... yet you claim all these respectable scientists say otherwise.[/QUOTE]
This is ****ing hilarious. He has no idea what flux means and how it affects emissivity and he's trying to argue with me. LOL:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol :lol :lol :lol

Just for you loj, an increase in flux means less efficient emissivity of thermal energy resulting in higher temperatures to emit the same amount of energy. You were trying to argue with yourself this whole time.:lol

[QUOTE=shlver]Just for you loj, an increase in flux means less efficient emissivity of thermal energy resulting in higher temperatures to emit the same amount of energy. You were trying to argue with yourself this whole time.:lol[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i.qkme.me/35ol0s.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=bmulls][IMG]http://i.qkme.me/35ol0s.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
It's not even complex, this is intro physics. It's kind of funny that some staunch supporters of anthropogenic climate change don't even know the language of the most well established and elementary fact in the science of climate.

[QUOTE=shlver]Just for you loj, an increase in flux means less efficient emissivity of thermal energy resulting in higher temperatures to emit the same amount of energy. You were trying to argue with yourself this whole time.:lol[/QUOTE]

Well, then just smack me in the face.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Why would humans be the exception when things go extinct? Is that a serious question? Cavemen survived greater climate change than humanity has the ability to cause. And they did it with sticks and stones. Fear mongering isn't only bad when republicans do it.....[/QUOTE]

this is either ignorant or cynical. Sure we will survive - the question is how and who. Some people would have survived a third world war too, but as Einstein said, WW IV would be fought with bow and arrow. We in developed countries are fortunate that we'll likely not be affected the most by climate change, despite contributing most to it. So it's also a question of moral how much effort we put in trying to prevent excessive change.

btw, new report/study is out by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research via World Bank.
[url]http://climatechange.worldbank.org/content/climate-change-report-warns-dramatically-warmer-world-century[/url]

some excerpts:

[QUOTE][B]Heat Extremes[/B]

A 4

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]It's been "below" average here in the state of North Carolina.[/QUOTE]

hence the word "global"

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Where'd you hear this bullshit statistic? Your ass?[/QUOTE]

Yes, the part of my ass that contains the National Academy of Sciences
[url]http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107.full.pdf+html[/url]

[QUOTE=KevinNYC] 97% of climate scientists.[/QUOTE]

Where is the validation on this number? Some wild call outs are being made in this thread

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]Yes, the part of my ass that contains the National Academy of Sciences
[url]http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107.full.pdf+html[/url][/QUOTE]



- What is that overwelming "97%" :rolleyes: of petition scientists claiming though?...

- are they saying...Human CO2 emissions will cause massive catastrophic warming, [B]It will cause disaster in the near future ruining the world for our children. This warming will lead to massive flooding, drought, wide scale starvation, wars, plagues, melting of the polar ice, flooding of huge areas of the world...???
[/B]

- or Al Gores academy award acting of ...OMG!! 23 feet of sea level rise and polar Ice caps melting!!....everybody will drown.


- [B]Or the "deniers"(what is really happening)[/B] claims that the [B]world seems to have wamed about .6-.7 C over the last century and that may be somewhat due to human activity[/B]....waters lels may rise 15-20 cm ?


- Your "97%" of scientists ( wich only happened to be 400)duplicated thier names and some even faked thier credentials.....

but what are they saying?.....world seems to have wamed about .6-.7 C over the last century and that may be somewhat due to human activity..:confusedshrug:

(opens pocket)

Yes i am quite safe in my bubble and so are you. And if somehow we aren't there is nothing to be done about it now. Global warming is a first world concern and 95% of us don't care either. Some guy in Cambodia working for 70 bucks a week doesn't give a **** what you think about the environment in 160 years and what someone in Italy can do about it.


Its such a bullshit movement. Its .02 percent of the world talking shit on the internet. You aren't going to do a thing because deep down you know you don't matter and would be wasting your life.

You can help save lives in tangible ways today. I try. Idonate to a place called nothing but net which pays for malaria nets for poor people. Not much but i bet its gonna help more than some internet fear mongering by people trying to sound smart pointing out shit I've been told for 20 years.

Talking about ****ing polar bears....

I'm all for polar bears but on a grand scale....eh. I don't see to many woolly rhinos. Many animals designed to flourish during an ice age die when its gone. Part of it may be us. much of it isn't. Either way...give it time shit will be drastically different.

We may make it take less time....but it won't be stopped by us. And most of the world has too many real problems to care what we think about their carbon footprint. And i don't blame them.

Damn, I hope my great great great great great great great great grandchildren will be able to fix this issue...

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Yes i am quite safe in my bubble and so are you. And if somehow we aren't there is nothing to be done about it now. Global warming is a first world concern and 95% of us don't care either. Some guy in Cambodia working for 70 bucks a week doesn't give a **** what you think about the environment in 160 years and what someone in Italy can do about it.


Its such a bullshit movement. Its .02 percent of the world talking shit on the internet. You aren't going to do a thing because deep down you know you don't matter and would be wasting your life.

You can help save lives in tangible ways today. I try. Idonate to a place called nothing but net which pays for malaria nets for poor people. Not much but i bet its gonna help more than some internet fear mongering by people trying to sound smart pointing out shit I've been told for 20 years.

Talking about ****ing polar bears....[/QUOTE]
:applause: :applause: :applause:

I hate elitists. There are people like DeucesWallace out there making a career out of fearmongering.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Yes i am quite safe in my bubble and so are you. And if somehow we aren't there is nothing to be done about it now. Global warming is a first world concern and 95% of us don't care either. Some guy in Cambodia working for 70 bucks a week doesn't give a **** what you think about the environment in 160 years and what someone in Italy can do about it.


Its such a bullshit movement. Its .02 percent of the world talking shit on the internet. You aren't going to do a thing because deep down you know you don't matter and would be wasting your life.

[/QUOTE]

you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Guy in Cambodia doesn't care? If so, it's because he doesn't have the proper education to get to that knowledge (which is a whole other problem).
Climate Change absolutely is NOT a first world concern. Poor developing countries will face adverse effects more than the "first world". Which is why the group of those countries in the UN (the LDC, least developed countries, and the AOSIS, association of small island states) are pushing for a 1.5

[QUOTE=kNicKz]I was hit by Hurricane Sandy. Hurricanes were happening before my bloodline, and will continue to happen.[/QUOTE]

Anytime a hurricane strikes the US now at least some will say Global Warming is the cause. It doesn't matter how weak it might be. Remember the whole "melting streetlights" stuff that got some people excited (or scared) this past summer?

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Yes i am quite safe in my bubble and so are you. And if somehow we aren't there is nothing to be done about it now. Global warming is a first world concern and 95% of us don't care either. Some guy in Cambodia working for 70 bucks a week doesn't give a **** what you think about the environment in 160 years and what someone in Italy can do about it.


Its such a bullshit movement. Its .02 percent of the world talking shit on the internet. You aren't going to do a thing because deep down you know you don't matter and would be wasting your life.

You can help save lives in tangible ways today. I try. Idonate to a place called nothing but net which pays for malaria nets for poor people. Not much but i bet its gonna help more than some internet fear mongering by people trying to sound smart pointing out shit I've been told for 20 years.

Talking about ****ing polar bears....

I'm all for polar bears but on a grand scale....eh. I don't see to many woolly rhinos. Many animals designed to flourish during an ice age die when its gone. Part of it may be us. much of it isn't. Either way...give it time shit will be drastically different.

We may make it take less time....but it won't be stopped by us. And most of the world has too many real problems to care what we think about their carbon footprint. And i don't blame them.[/QUOTE]

There ain't shit we can do about it anyway... Besides adapt to the best of our abilities.

It should be clear what i meant. This is an issue largely discussed by the top one percent of the world and most won't do anything and those who do won't have an impact.

Its not really am issue of education either. you aren't the only one with google and al gore charts. You aren't especially informed. you just choose to make a big deal of it on the internet. What are you really doing? Serious question? What? If its anything less than you could.....who are you to lecture me?

If its such a major deal....go devote your life to it. No? Rather google it and tell me shit i already know and don't care about? If so....the difference in my caring and yours is what?

I'm realistic about what can be done. You must be to or I'm sure you could find more to do. You just want to preach then use the money that could help on your cable bill.

I skip right to the not doing anything. You stop to preach. We end up the same place only I've not given any reason to believe i cared to begin with

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]It should be clear what i meant. This is an issue largely discussed by the top one percent of the world and most won't do anything and those who do won't have an impact.

Its not really am issue of education either. you aren't the only one with google and al gore charts. You aren't especially informed. you just choose to make a big deal of it on the internet. What are you really doing? Serious question? What? If its anything less than you could.....who are you to lecture me?[/quote]

I have a degree in geography (B.Sc.) as well as Political Science and Sociology (B.A.). Research focus is development research and international relations/ European politics. I don't use google, and have never read an Al Gore book nor seen a film.

I'm not lecturing you, I'm giving you sources of information which you probably are too lazy to look for yourself as complacent as you are in your bubble.

The rest of your post is not worth responding too, as it's just full of wrong assumptions.
Maybe rething your point that it's not worth doing anything about climate change, whether it's man-made or not. People are facing adverse effects as of right now. It's morally AND economically the right thing to go and try doing something about it.
It's parts of the constituency like you that prevent decision-makers from taking action.

I ask again what are you doing about it? I always get a laugh when someone acts like a social issue is the beginning of the end times and then I find out they donate 30 dollars a year to some charity that's spends 60 percent of that on advertising.

if you are taking action please let me know. but if you .....someone who claims to care arent doing all that you can how can you expect people who don't give a damn?

the reason this is a first world issue is because the extreme vast majority of the world cant afford to give time and attention to such a trivial issue. and compared to the day to day struggle of the average man it is exactly that.

Oh and as far as why those in power arent doing anything....

Im quite sure its because they have real issues to take care of. Not...one day issues. Not even "This might have made the present a little worse" issues. Im talking....faith led maniacs slowly working out ways to get their hands on a nuke. Im talking millions out of work and billions in poverty.

I hope they arent stopping working on todays tangible issues to look into shooting bottle rockets at the asteriod that is the global climate change. We are on a world where Greenland has been a rainforest and Death Valley was under water. We arent talking about anything shocking happening compared to world history. We are talking about the timetable of inevitable massive change.

And the bad thing is....most telling the world to shoot the bottle rockets arent even shooting them themselves. They are just suggesting others do it....or worse...trying to spread asteriod awareness in their down time.

I want our leaders to fight wars that can be won. The way the world is today...you have a better chance of ending global hunger than slowing the human nature killing machine.

And hunger wont be stopped either. Not as the world is or will be any time soon.

At some point you have to fight the battles that can be won. We can prevent a terrorist from blowing up Toronto. We cant turn around climate change. Perhaps slow it down? If the world fired all its bottle rockets at once...maybe.

But we are too busy firing them at eachother. I was given this world...I didnt make it. I do what I can for those I love and people I can help. The world is gonna do what its gonna do.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Oh and as far as why those in power arent doing anything....

Im quite sure its because they have real issues to take care of. Not...one day issues. Not even "This might have made the present a little worse" issues. Im talking....faith led maniacs slowly working out ways to get their hands on a nuke. Im talking millions out of work and billions in poverty.

I hope they arent stopping working on todays tangible issues to look into shooting bottle rockets at the asteriod that is the global climate change. We are on a world where Greenland has been a rainforest and Death Valley was under water. We arent talking about anything shocking happening compared to world history. We are talking about the timetable of inevitable massive change.

And the bad thing is....most telling the world to shoot the bottle rockets arent even shooting them themselves. They are just suggesting others do it....or worse...trying to spread asteriod awareness in their down time.

I want our leaders to fight wars that can be won. The way the world is today...you have a better chance of ending global hunger than slowing the human nature killing machine.

And hunger wont be stopped either. Not as the world is or will be any time soon.

At some point you have to fight the battles that can be won. We can prevent a terrorist from blowing up Toronto. We cant turn around climate change. Perhaps slow it down? If the world fired all its bottle rockets at once...maybe.

But we are too busy firing them at eachother. I was given this world...I didnt make it. I do what I can for those I love and people I can help. The world is gonna do what its gonna do.[/QUOTE]

This is today's issue. It's causing all sorts of problems for people all around the world; some of which are very serious. You have no idea what the **** you're talking about. Get out of this thread and go make a youtube mix or some other stupid shit.

Are you completely oblivious to the fact that climate change is already adversely affecting a large portion of the world? What are you even brabbling about? That climate change is not a serious challenge?
You're completely off on whether we can do something about it. And even if there's only a chance we might be successful, we have the responsibility to try.

You're so ignorant that you don't even get that the fight against climate change IS a fight against hunger in poverty. Had you taken a look at the World Bank paper I linked too you'd know that. Leaders in developing countries know that, scientists know it, people engaged in development politics know it, which is why they are pushing for more committment against climate change.

ignoring the climate change problem basically annihilates every chance at ending the hunger problem.



[QUOTE]I ask again what are you doing about it? I always get a laugh when someone acts like a social issue is the beginning of the end times and then I find out they donate 30 dollars a year to some charity that's spends 60 percent of that on advertising.

if you are taking action please let me know. but if you .....someone who claims to care arent doing all that you can how can you expect people who don't give a damn?[/QUOTE]

I spend money on my education in this field, hope to work in that area in the near future and contribute to worthy causes with my skills and knowledge. That's the most I can do. That and accepting the challenges at hand and leaving my personal bubble of complacency.

Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

[QUOTE=shlver]I can by using simplified assumptions using only radiative forcing of CO2, historical CO2 levels, the energy balance of the earth, and climate sensitivity which are all established published data. I can write out the calculations on paper if you would like.[/QUOTE]

Well your original point is still up for debate. So maybe you should write them out and then send them in to Global Change Biology or a similar outlet.

[QUOTE]I spend money on my education in this field, hope to work in that area in the near future and contribute to worthy causes with my skills and knowledge. That's the most I can do. That and accepting the challenges at hand and leaving my personal bubble of complacency.
[/QUOTE]

Im gonna talk to you about this issue for a moment as Ifeel you may be trying to do more than shoot your bottle rocket. I believe things like this:

[QUOTE]Ignorance is bliss, I guess.[/QUOTE]

Will always be your biggest obstacle. The divisive mocking that creates two "teams" that argue like children with neither side listening....and the idea that people who arent terribly concerned simply dont know enough to be.

I will grant you this....

Most people in the world will never ever ever bother to look into any of this and even those in "developed" countries will mostly ignore it.

So ignorance is something you just have to accept. So "Ignorance is bliss" would be fair to say to many. And some are just...idiots.

Me....no matter what you may think of my thoughts on this I am no doubt more willing and able to look into it than most and I am above average intelligence. Not much to brag about but....lets be real. The average is not very high when you still have a huge chunk of the world doubting evolution.

My point...

Me:

Non republican(I hate that opinions on this issue are so politicized but...just being real)

Educated(not that I had much interest in the field in question)

Generally concerned about the well being of my fellow man

Reasonably sure hurricanes are not caused by gay marriage.

A lover of most aspects of science

Have little doubt that when people who devote their lives to it tell me the climate is changing...that it probably is.

Ive been reading links and watching clips and movies and hearing various people talk up the issue for over 15 years. Ive been arguing about it here for over 10. I am not new to this issue.

If a man like me...does not care. What hope do you have of reaching the average american or citizen of the world?

My question is this...why...do you think climate change(when exactly did we stop saying global warming by the way) is low on my list of day to day concerns.

If you are serious about making a difference you must know that apathy is probably your biggest obstacle. So your type need to figure out why people dont care. And especially why people who are reasonably informed of what is going on...dont care.

So tell me please...why do you think someone like me...is not terribly concerned?

If you are gonna just give me a "U dumb...lol!" just give me that and ill assume you are less serious than I thought and leave you to it. I imagine someone making a life out of this knows that indifference is at least one of the biggest problems. So lets talk about that.

I'll listen. Lets see what you think.

arguing that climate change is invented for scientists to make money is like arguing that satan buried dinosaur bones and put evolution in textbooks to test our faith in god.

climate change might not really start effecting us during our lifetimes, but future generations are going to look back on us like... thanks assholes.

[QUOTE=Nanners]arguing that climate change is invented for scientists to make money is like arguing that satan buried dinosaur bones and put evolution in textbooks to test our faith in god.

climate change might not really start effecting us during our lifetimes, but [B]future generations are going to look back on us like... thanks assholes[/B].[/QUOTE]


- So future generations will disregard all we ( previous enerations) gave them...( I.E. the industrial revolution , Transportation ,communication , Indor Plumbing etc..etc...)because the climate changed .6 - .7 C ??? over the past 100 years??


No one is going going care.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]- So future generations will disregard all we ( previous enerations) gave them...( I.E. the industrial revolution , Transportation ,communication , Indor Plumbing etc..etc...)because the climate changed .6 - .7 C ??? over the past 100 years??


No one is going going care.[/QUOTE]


yeah i can totally see that

"you trashed the earth, consumed all the non-renewable resources, and sent most animal species extinct.... but we forgive you because you invented indoor plumbing"

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]
Will always be your biggest obstacle. The divisive mocking that creates two "teams" that argue like children with neither side listening....and the idea that people who arent terribly concerned simply dont know enough to be.

I will grant you this....

Most people in the world will never ever ever bother to look into any of this and even those in "developed" countries will mostly ignore it.

So ignorance is something you just have to accept. So "Ignorance is bliss" would be fair to say to many. And some are just...idiots.

Me....no matter what you may think of my thoughts on this I am no doubt more willing and able to look into it than most and I am above average intelligence. Not much to brag about but....lets be real. The average is not very high when you still have a huge chunk of the world doubting evolution.

My point...

Me:

Non republican(I hate that opinions on this issue are so politicized but...just being real)

Educated(not that I had much interest in the field in question)

Generally concerned about the well being of my fellow man

Reasonably sure hurricanes are not caused by gay marriage.

A lover of most aspects of science

Have little doubt that when people who devote their lives to it tell me the climate is changing...that it probably is.

Ive been reading links and watching clips and movies and hearing various people talk up the issue for over 15 years. Ive been arguing about it here for over 10. I am not new to this issue.

If a man like me...does not care. What hope do you have of reaching the average american or citizen of the world?

My question is this...why...do you think climate change(when exactly did we stop saying global warming by the way) is low on my list of day to day concerns.

If you are serious about making a difference you must know that apathy is probably your biggest obstacle. So your type need to figure out why people dont care. And especially why people who are reasonably informed of what is going on...dont care.

So tell me please...why do you think someone like me...is not terribly concerned?

If you are gonna just give me a "U dumb...lol!" just give me that and ill assume you are less serious than I thought and leave you to it. I imagine someone making a life out of this knows that indifference is at least one of the biggest problems. So lets talk about that.

I'll listen. Lets see what you think.[/QUOTE]

The single individual cannot be blamed for failing to understand climate change, or not doing something about it. So I shouldn't fault you. I know you're not stupid, and care about your fellows, are thoughtful ... I've read your posts in the past ~10 years.
If you are as well-read about the subject as you suppose, you should be able to draw the connection between climate change and phenomena like hunger, malnutrition, migration and poverty. If additionally you trust in science that mankind is responsible for the recent drastic change (@alpha-wolf: .8

[QUOTE=Nanners]yeah i can totally see that

- "you trashed the earth, consumed all the non-renewable resources, and sent most animal species extinct.... but we forgive you because you invented indoor plumbing"

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]


"You trashed the Earth"......[B]the same Earth that I can drive my car or take a Plane and travel anywhere / anytime all because of my ForeFathers using Fossil Fuels and Petro based Technology..
[/B]
up until then Most people Lived a poor hard life lucky to see 40 years old....


- Those stupid people.....killing 1 species of Salamander....for stupid indoor Plumbing.

[B]who cares about preventing desease and epidemic.....who cares about running water?...or clean drinking water for the masses?......my Forefathers killed off a spotted salamander so we can have fresh water anywhere we go........damn them!!!![/B]


seriously.....go 3 days without using your toilet or shower...go one day without drinking fresh water........then come back and tell us how stupid indoor plumbing is.

[QUOTE=Nanners]climate change might not really start effecting us during our lifetimes, but future generations are going to look back on us like... thanks assholes.[/QUOTE]
future generations? [i]what[/i] future generations?

[QUOTE=Brunch@Five]The single individual cannot be blamed for failing to understand climate change, or not doing something about it. So I shouldn't fault you. I know you're not stupid, and care about your fellows, are thoughtful ... I've read your posts in the past ~10 years.
If you are as well-read about the subject as you suppose, you should be able to draw the connection between climate change and phenomena like hunger, malnutrition, migration and poverty. If additionally you trust in science that mankind is responsible for the recent drastic change (@alpha-wolf: .8

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]- Look I'm all for midigating CO2 emmisions....but I'm also recognizing the here and now.

- What I'm saying ( and what other psoters I think are trying to say) is using Tactics like "Global temps Rising!!!"....Hurricane caused by Global warming !!...everyone needs to go green!!!......OIL BAD!!!.....Solar GOOD!! (is the wrong way......and frankly no gives a ****.)

- Real People with Real Lives need to LIVE Now......using Tactics about how we may or may not be destroying our Planet is the wrong way to go about it.

- Yes...we need an alternative to the internal combustion engine...we need to eliminate all CO2 emmisions ...that means "pushing the reset button" on all our transportation / manufaturing...

that will not happen until all our Great Great Great Grandchildren redesign a noncombustible engine that WORKS!!!....and then what are the reprocussions from that technology?....


what do we do until then?........Our Lives/economy does not run on sunlight and rainbows...[/QUOTE]

you're putting up a strawman. No one here, and no serious scientist or politician advocates that we stop using CO2 emitting technologies immediately. The UN has set goals that we can achieve with little economic suffering. Long-term we will benefit, both ecologically and economically. You're the guy panicking, not "us" who advocate going green.