Kobe does it again ! 1-10

[QUOTE=poido123]You retards. Kobe kills the flow early in the game with patches of shooting too much.[B] Other players start to get lazy and uninterested on D, causing the team to have passing problems and stagnant offense.[/B] Then late in the game, Kobe starts shooting way too much again, teammates start to watch rather than participate.

So Kobe was efficient tonight? but he took a hell of a lot of shots again, what about the other 9 games where most of them he was inefficient? But of course Kobe fans look for excuses :faceplam[/QUOTE]

There you have it folks. Kobe Bryant the only player in NBA history that can get blamed for his teammates playing bad defense because he's playing well offensively :oldlol:

[QUOTE=longtime lurker]There you have it folks. Kobe Bryant the only player in NBA history that can get blamed for his teammates playing bad defense because he's playing well offensively :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Everyone including kobe is playing bad defense

[QUOTE=LeBird]The idea that Kobe's scoring is affecting his teammates that much is absurd. These are pro players. That they start watching Kobe or become disenchanted to play defence is beyond the pale. Why is Kobe responsible for others doing the bare minimum?

I don't even like Kobe yet I am being forced to defend him. Correlation =/= causation. This stat is useless.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much. Winning is an entire team concept and it baffles me that people cannot figure this out, unless one player really stinks it up on the court.

I even covered this arbitrary stat before:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8031557&postcount=73[/url]

[QUOTE]So, let's use arbitrary records without context.

Bryant's record when he scores all-time in the regular season:

97-98: 1-1
98-99: 2-0
99-00: 8-0
00-01: 20-10
01-02: 13-5
02-03: 30-12
03-04: 15-4
04-05: 15-15
05-06: 33-23
06-07: 21-17
07-08: 25-11
08-09: 21-6
09-10: 19-10
10-11: 17-6
11-12: 17-7

In the playoffs:

99-00: 1-3
00-01: 6-0
01-02: 5-1
02-03: 6-3
03-04: 5-1
05-06: 0-1
06-07: 1-3
07-08: 8-4
08-09: 10-5
09-10: 10-4
10-11: 1-2
11-12: 3-4

So, I guess this is the first time that Bryant's teammates have been disinterested offensively and defensively.

I'm not saying Bryant's not to blame, but it's not about his scoring. If you want to account the Lakers losing with his play, look at his turnovers and defense. It's the Lakers as a unit, where in lies the problem. That and their missing 3 regular players in their rotation and 2 new coaching systems.[/QUOTE]

I wonder why this stat is so relevant now.

[QUOTE=Pacers4ever]Everyone including kobe is playing bad defense[/QUOTE]

This is also true.

even if ppl say that Kobe kills the rhythm..yaliyaliyliya..

if you look when kobe iso's .. his other teammates are just standing there out in the perimeter and watching.. jesus ****ing move or look for cuts..

there's no option (b) when kobe iso's it's just hoping he makes it.. like when kobe get's doubled he does pass it out.. but even that his teammates are out of position ending up forcing a bad shot..

kobe can make that pass like lebron does if they get ****ing open by movement...

[QUOTE=LeBird]The idea that Kobe's scoring is affecting his teammates that much is absurd. These are pro players. That they start watching Kobe or become disenchanted to play defence is beyond the pale. Why is Kobe responsible for others doing the bare minimum?

I don't even like Kobe yet I am being forced to defend him. Correlation =/= causation. This stat is useless.[/QUOTE]

This. I can understand the criticism if he was inefficient, but tonight he shot 57% to get his 42 points. No excuse for his teammates to be playing like ass, or not give effort on the defensive end.

[QUOTE=LeBird]The idea that Kobe's scoring is affecting his teammates that much is absurd. These are pro players. That they start watching Kobe or become disenchanted to play defence is beyond the pale. Why is Kobe responsible for others doing the bare minimum?

I don't even like Kobe yet I am being forced to defend him. Correlation =/= causation. This stat is useless.[/QUOTE]

It's not that absurd. I don't think it's the problem, but he could get his other teammates involved and encourage them. But he has been very efficient with his scoring and the games that I watched, he hasn't been forcing his shots that much. He has his moments, but it's not like it used to be.

The biggest deal individual player atm is with Howard imo. The guy needs to average more points and more shots. I don't know if it's him, Kobe taking a bunch of shots, or it's the system, but he needs to take more shots. He should not just take 9 shots. He is your second best player. You gott'a encourage him to take more shots.

The obvious problem is defense. Their bench isn't really all that great imo, and TOs are still a problem. 18 turnovers today. Crazy.

[QUOTE=Pacers4ever]Everyone including kobe is playing bad defense[/QUOTE]

this it true, but reread the part I bolded. It has to be the most absurd notion ever

Kobe is still getting about 5 assists per game. The top point guards are getting 9 to 11 assists per game. Kobe is a [B]SHOOTING GUARD[/B]. How does that equate to Kobe not sharing the ball? When nobody is making shots Kobe has to go into Mamba mode to keep us in the game. I'm not concerned about him sharing the ball. I'm concerned about his turnovers.

Dwight Howard doesn't look like he is 100% but even with that said this guy hasn't been as good as was advertised on the offensive end. He's charging into triple teams under the hoop and letting guys slap the ball out of his hands. That's why he isn't getting shots. He's attempting the shots but before the ball gets from point A to point B it's getting knocked loose. Where's the Dream Shake? Where's the Skyhook? Dude has one post move. Fake right go left. Turn ball over or get fouled and miss freethrows.

F**k!

[QUOTE=longtime lurker]There you have it folks. Kobe Bryant the only player in NBA history that can get blamed for his teammates playing bad defense because he's playing well offensively :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Like I've said, Kobe cops it far more than any other player, now surely there must be reason to that other than just plain hate? There are other star players to hate you know :rolleyes:

If you have a player in your team who shoots 50 shots a game, you would be less inclined to try harder on Defense. What I am saying is, shot jacking and hero ball does not promote good team defense or team ball movement. It also places doubt in players head as to whether the ball hog trusts his teammates to make shots...Sends a bad message.

[QUOTE=poido123]Like I've said, Kobe cops it far more than any other player, now surely there must be reason to that other than just plain hate? There are other star players to hate you know :rolleyes:

If you have a player in your team who shoots 50 shots a game, you would be less inclined to try harder on Defense. What I am saying is, shot jacking and hero ball does not promote good team defense or team ball movement. It also places doubt in players head as to whether the ball hog trusts his teammates to make shots...Sends a bad message.[/QUOTE]

Your point is understood.

Now watch the game. The problem is not effort. It's communication and it's lack of organization. Then you combine that with refusal to take responsibility.

[QUOTE=poido123]Like I've said, Kobe cops it far more than any other player, now surely there must be reason to that other than just plain hate? There are other star players to hate you know :rolleyes:

If you have a player in your team who shoots 50 shots a game, you would be less inclined to try harder on Defense. What I am saying is, shot jacking and hero ball does not promote good team defense or team ball movement. It also places doubt in players head as to whether the ball hog trusts his teammates to make shots...Sends a bad message.[/QUOTE]

Well I'm sure Kobe can't be the only player in NBA history who has dominated the ball, yet their teammates still played defense. I won't waste your time with actual basketball insight since you're not interested in that, but if professional players who have the opportunity to win a ring can't commit to playing defense for at least 30 mins then I don't honestly don't know what to say. Saying this I know Kobe is part of the defensive problems, but it takes a team commitment to play defense. And sorry but you're fvcking Darius Morris even if you get zero shots you should be happy with it and still play defense!

28 shots taken,, 2 assists.

And Kobe's defensive assignment has a career night.

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=Hank]28 shots taken,, 2 assists.

And Kobe's defensive assignment has a career night.

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

He has tunnel vision for the all-time scoring record now.

As it should be. Let him just keep jacking his way to it and allow his apologists to praise his efficiency and complete disregard for team play.

[QUOTE=Hank]28 shots taken,, 2 assists.

And Kobe's defensive assignment has a career night.

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Miles was Artest's defensive assignment, wasn't it?

[QUOTE=3LiftHeatCurse]Miles was Artest's defensive assignment, wasn't it?[/QUOTE]

Don't let a little thing like facts get in the way of some good ole fashion hatin!

For real though, a lot of you guys are reaching for the sky here. Kobe scoring 40+ somehow has an effect on his teammates on the defensive end? That's beyond ridiculous.

I can't even fathom how ridiculous some of the posts are in this thread. Blaming the guy who dropped 42 on 16/28 shooting is f[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]cking stupid. I don't care who we're talking about.

Lets be honest, people just like seeing the Lakers lose. Same with Miami. I don't know why you Kobe/Laker fans spend so much time being defensive. Alot of you seem very easy to troll.

[QUOTE=Heavincent]For real though, a lot of you guys are reaching for the sky here. Kobe scoring 40+ somehow has an effect on his teammates on the defensive end? That's beyond ridiculous.

I can't even fathom how ridiculous some of the posts are in this thread. Blaming the guy who dropped 42 on 16/28 shooting is f[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]cking stupid. I don't care who we're talking about.[/QUOTE]

Nets & Lakers lose. Must be a tough night for you :(

[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]He has tunnel vision for the all-time scoring record now.

As it should be. Let him just keep jacking his way to it and allow his apologists to praise his efficiency and complete disregard for team play.[/QUOTE]

This.

I'd also like to note that if Kobe was in fact winning more than half the games, doing what he is doing, then I really have nothing to point out and it would demonstrate that the team supports this by playing defense and winning games. When defense isn't getting played and the guy shooting for 30+ loses nearly every game he does, then the team isn't on the same page as him. Then if we are to criticise Kobe for hero ball and shot jacking, then it must fall in line with an unsuccessful method that doesn't work for the team. Clearly, Lakers aren't winning if Kobe is leading the scoring, the stats and 1-10 shows that.

Please don't bring up other years, when KObe was in his prime and he was 2nd or first option, that is completely irrelevant to his situation now...

[QUOTE=poido123]Please don't bring up other years, when KObe was in his prime and he was 2nd or first option, that is completely irrelevant to his situation now...[/QUOTE]

Kobe wasn't in his prime last season and the season before that and still maintained .500+ record in this exact scenario.

reading through the post its obvious that 2 maybe 3 people watched the game tonight.

Kobe drops 40+ on 57% and THATS THE REASON the lakers lost.. ok :rolleye

[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]reading through the post its obvious that 2 maybe 3 people watched the game tonight.

Kobe drops 40+ on 57% and THATS THE REASON the lakers lost.. ok :rolleye[/QUOTE]

According to kobe haters kobe has been holding back Chris Duhon and Darius Morris, bad mamba bad! :no:

Chicken or the egg. Iversons teams had no problem playing the best defense in the league while he took 25 shots on much lower efficiency. It's a dumb argument now that you simpletons can't whine about his FG% anymore.

kobe still can ball, but he needs to get team mates involved

to me the main problem of this squad (even if Nash & Gasol returns) is the bench. The starters are old and they need good players to hold the fort while Nash, Kobe and Gasol rest. The bench is downright pathetic. I will be very shocked if they make it to the finals

[QUOTE=chazzy]Chicken or the egg. Iversons teams had no problem playing the best defense in the league while he took 25 shots on much lower efficiency. It's a dumb argument now that you simpletons can't whine about his FG% anymore.[/QUOTE]

This is true.

But Iverson never had somebody like Howard with the offensive talent. And Larry Brown coaching, and they had more defensive guys on that 76ers team.

Kobe scoring shots and scoring isn't the problem because a majority of them are good shots. It's the turnovers and defense. Kobe had 5 turnovers tonight. Howard had 4 turnovers. Overall they had 18 turnovers. That's horrible. And either the coach or Kobe or somebody needs to get Howard more involved. Howard may not be 100%, but he needs more shots than just 9.


I'm curious once Nash gets back, how will Kobe adjust his game because Nash needs the ball to be effective. Even though Kobe is good without the ball, he still do his little iso dribble move, or his triple threat. Throughout his career he always had the ball to create his own shot or other ppl. With the triangle, he could get away from not having the ball, but sometimes he breaks that offense and do his own thing. While he isn't a LeBron, he still controls the ball a lot.

With Nash though, Kobe can't do that as often in order for Nash to be effective. This could be a problem or it could be a great thing.

I don't see how the Lakers could feel comfortable with Kobe going off in scoring in losses while Dwight – for whatever reason – is averaging 11 shots in the last 5 games. This is supposed to be their crown jewel, the guy they want to keep around. I'm not huge Dwight fan, but without Nash and Gasol you'd think he'd be having some big games. Does D'Antoni not like him because he's got no jump shot? Are Kobe and Howard trying to feed off each other?

Yeah, it's really getting out of hand with the Kobe hate and blaming his scoring on their record. Out of the 10ish Lakers games I've watched this year (Kobe probably had 30+ in 7 or 8 of those) there was only one time I thought his '"chucking" might've been a big detriment to the team and hurt their chances to win; and that was mostly based on two or three jumpers he took in the fourth quarter with two or three defenders draped all over him, and he badly missed. But, that's it: one game with one really head-scratching stretch in the fourth quarter. Other than that, his scoring/offense hasn't been the problem.

It's clearly the Lakers defense. It's not even a question to be honest. if the Kobe haters want to find something they can blame and pin on him, then look at the defensive end. The whole team has been awful, not just Kobe, but Kobe has been pretty damn bad himself. But like I said, it's not Kobe's offense/shooting that's the problem.

I haven't seen the entirety of one of their games in a week or so, but the only thing I would maybe suggest is that he could make more of an effort to get Dwight involved, but that's as much on the coach as it is Kobe in my opinion.

Ppl have to understand that Lakers problem is mainly defense.

What people are effectively saying, is that it's ok for Kobe to be shooting more than 20 shots, as long as he is efficient? :eek:

All the Kobe fans are missing the point here, it's up to Kobe the leader to get everyone involved on offense and defense, and if they are not, the blame falls squarely on him. For every 1 or 2 efficient Kobe games there are 4 or 5 inefficient ones, and just because he shot well and scored 42 tonight, does that excuse that he didn't get his teammates more involved and more focused on defense? No. Kobe is not providing a good example leading the offense, and he is not providing a good example on defense, and it shows from his teammates who are clearly not showing the energy or desire to defend.

He really isn't actively looking to get others involved early in the game, and that sets a tone for the rest of the game. If you guys can't understand or see that, I really believe that you are blinded by your favourite player, and not the improvement of the team.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Kobe wasn't in his prime last season and the season before that and still maintained .500+ record in this exact scenario.[/QUOTE]

Last season he had a leash on him, with PJ running the show. He had criticism last year too, for shooting too much and playing hero ball. This year he has more offensive weapons and one who should be 1st scoring option and that is Howard. Hell even artest is getting more shots than Howard :lol Is it no coincidence that both Bynum and Howard have had trouble getting enough shots in a Kobe led team?

[QUOTE=poido123][B]Last season[/B] he had a leash on him, [B]with PJ running the show[/B]. He had criticism last year too, for shooting too much and playing hero ball. This year he has more offensive weapons and one who should be 1st scoring option and that is Howard. Hell even artest is getting more shots than Howard :lol Is it no coincidence that both Bynum and Howard have had trouble getting enough shots in a Kobe led team?[/QUOTE]

Ignorant, blind hate is funny

You guys know that offense isn't the only part of a basketball game right? It Irving & Miles went off on Kobe then that kind of negates the points he dropped and how many assists did he have? Obviously not enough to matter.

[QUOTE=poido123]Last season he had a leash on him,[/QUOTE]
No he didn't, he shot even more and on much lower efficiency.
[QUOTE]with PJ running the show.[/QUOTE]
Uh, Mike Brown?
[QUOTE]He had criticism last year too, for shooting too much and playing hero ball.[/QUOTE] And it was much more warranted last year yet they had no problems winning games.[QUOTE]This year he has more offensive weapons [/QUOTE]
How? Last year they had a healthy Gasol and Bynum along with Barnes off the bench and Sessions midway. Right now it's just Dwight and effectively a bunch of streaky role players
[QUOTE]and one who should be 1st scoring option and that is Howard.[/QUOTE]
Based on what? He's not 100% and isn't scoring as effectively as Kobe. And when he gets fouled late in games, his FT% is at an all time low so he becomes a liability at times. [QUOTE]Hell even artest is getting more shots than Howard :lol[/QUOTE]Not true [QUOTE]Is it no coincidence that both Bynum and Howard have had trouble getting enough shots in a Kobe led team?[/QUOTE]
Howard is only taking a shot or two less while moving to a 2nd option role. Bynum took as many shots as Howard did last year as a 2nd option. He actually struggled to score as effectively in games Kobe sat out in last year IIRC, so this point makes 0 sense.

How we go again. :facepalm Kobe ballin is his fault that they lost?

[QUOTE=KG215]Yeah, it's really getting out of hand with the Kobe hate and blaming his scoring on their record. Out of the 10ish Lakers games I've watched this year (Kobe probably had 30+ in 7 or 8 of those) there was only one time I thought his '"chucking" might've been a big detriment to the team and hurt their chances to win; and that was mostly based on two or three jumpers he took in the fourth quarter with two or three defenders draped all over him, and he badly missed. But, that's it: one game with one really head-scratching stretch in the fourth quarter. Other than that, his scoring/offense hasn't been the problem.

It's clearly the Lakers defense. It's not even a question to be honest. if the Kobe haters want to find something they can blame and pin on him, then look at the defensive end. The whole team has been awful, not just Kobe, but Kobe has been pretty damn bad himself. But like I said, it's not Kobe's offense/shooting that's the problem.

I haven't seen the entirety of one of their games in a week or so, but the only thing I would maybe suggest is that he could make more of an effort to get Dwight involved, but that's as much on the coach as it is Kobe in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Dwight won't score much. Why? They'll hack him every time. So who else is gonna help Kobe and the Lakers on the scoring department?

[QUOTE=chazzy]No he didn't, he shot even more and on much lower efficiency.

Uh, Mike Brown?
And it was much more warranted last year yet they had no problems winning games.
How? Last year they had a healthy Gasol and Bynum along with Barnes off the bench and Sessions midway. Right now it's just Dwight and effectively a bunch of streaky role players

Based on what? He's not 100% and isn't scoring as effectively as Kobe. And when he gets fouled late in games, his FT% is at an all time low so he becomes a liability at times. Not true
Howard is only taking a shot or two less while moving to a 2nd option role. Bynum took as many shots as Howard did last year as a 2nd option. He actually struggled to score as effectively in games Kobe sat out in last year IIRC, so this point makes 0 sense.[/QUOTE]

Talk about jumping down my throat the minute I make a silly mistake from memory :lol Time has gone fast, and i was referring to the year before, of course he was shooting more last year, Mike Brown was running the show, Kobe could do what he likes?

Scoring as efficiently, are we talking about the ten shots he gets in a game to kobe 20 odd? Then howard is shooting 58% to Kobe's 48%...I think you lost it there buddy :lol Free throws he still makes around half so that is 10 points for every 10 shots? not bad.

Kobe is just like my NBA2k character: shoots a lot, scores many points, little to no assist, guaranteed turnover on forced passes; and in the end of the day, the game is lost.

Kobe's scoring has been the only thing keeping the Lakers in these games. If he hadn't got 40 tonight the Cavs would've won by 20.

[QUOTE=poido123]
Scoring as efficiently, are we talking about the ten shots he gets in a game to kobe 20 odd? Then howard is shooting 58% to Kobe's 48%...I think you lost it there buddy :lol Free throws he still makes around half so that is 10 points for every 10 shots? not bad.[/QUOTE]
Dwight's FT shooting really brings down his efficiency. Are you really suggesting that Dwight is currently a better scorer than Kobe? I think you lost it there buddy. You've been fighting a good fight, but you're really reaching man.