The overwhelming splendor and excellence of the Bible cannot be disputed

[QUOTE=Jello]It's a man made literary work that is open to interpretation. I still don't see how society influencing what parts people choose to believe means the Bible isn't a core source of their beliefs.[/QUOTE]

If you can't even abstractly understand what I am saying then I probably can't help you. There is a difference between understanding and accepting. I honestly don't understand how you cannot understand my point (well I can hazard a guess and say you are either ignorant, delusional, or operating in a massive effort of cognitive dissonance).

[QUOTE=lakers_forever]A bunch of BS made up by...[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SnWfu8vlgV8/TgWIIACKBhI/AAAAAAAAAG8/kXpESQqFyNE/s1600/iron+knee.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=The Macho Man]Nothing against Christians though, except when they tell me I'm going to hell:( [/QUOTE]

You're going to a special layer of hell where Jurassic Park plays on a loop for all eternity :mad:

[QUOTE=The Macho Man]I'm always surprised by the amount of people here who have read the bible. I've never known anyone who has. I tried opening it up once, shit was unreadable.

Nothing against Christians though, except when they tell me I'm going to hell:([/QUOTE]
You're reading the wrong Bible, my friend.

[IMG]http://images.bookcloseouts.com/covers/large/isbn978076/9780764538117-l.jpg[/IMG]

Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you.
All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.

If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his father's wife has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them.

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20]:biggums:

When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.

Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee. But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution.

Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death.

Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death. Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.

When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery.

When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. [Exodus, chapter 21] God is good.... Praise be to him

[QUOTE=Just2McFly]Didnt have to scroll far.

The bible is a great book with many lessons that a lot of people could learn from and apply to their lives.[/QUOTE]

So are Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings. Just sayin...

[QUOTE=lakers_forever]No that Zeitgeist BS again. :lol A bunch of BS made up by a 19th century poet named Gerald Massey. No respected historian in the world claim those "facts" about those deities.

Read it and learn [url]http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/part-one[/url] An article ((with all the references) made by a non christian debunking all that BS.

Even militant atheists like historian Richard Carrier and those guys from the Atheist Experience show think Zeitgeist is BS.

Example: Horus wasn't born of a virgin, on the 25th dec, a teacher at 12, he wasn't crucified, he did not ressurect, he wasn't know as the Light, God's sheperd. There were no star in the east, no 12 disciples. It's all made up by Gerald Massey (lamer in history).

From wikipedia:




[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Massey[/url][/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/26993666.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Derka][B]So are Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings[/B]. Just sayin...[/QUOTE]
lol like what and it has to be original.

[QUOTE=Kews1][IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ebzCmt0GidQ/T4EquL8ScoI/AAAAAAAABOY/0mlrA8nLgz0/s1600/horus+THEN+jesus.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD40xi9KdqE[/url]

[QUOTE=TheGreatBlaze][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD40xi9KdqE[/url][/QUOTE]

For each video saying its not true i could find you ones that say it is, but thats beside the point if its true or not dosnt affect my views on it or beliefs so im not concerned either way :banana:

[QUOTE=Kews1]For each video saying its not true i could find you ones that say it is, but thats beside the point if its true or not dosnt affect my views on it or beliefs so im not concerned either way :banana:[/QUOTE]
You made assertions full of lies and fabrications that have been exposed and refuted years ago. If you're going to make a claim, prove it. People who actually study this sort of stuff can see right through you.

the bible is for stupid people.

those people may be good-natured folks, but they're still stupid people.

[QUOTE=LikeABosh]Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.[/QUOTE]


Oh F***

I think people should stop bothering others with what they believe in.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]No doubt that is the reason for some, but many are due to people just not wanting to give something up--hence they build a denomination that allows it[/QUOTE]

That may be true, but it doesn't take away from the fact that this "perfect" book is subject to all sorts of subjective interpretation.

A rudimentary maths textbook is more perfect because it can only be interpreted one way, all of the time, by anyone regardless of their cultural or religious or economic background. That is kind of how I would expect the creator of the laws of the universe to write a book. Except I am expected to believe that this is his best effort? A set of identical twins with all of the same inputs will even differ in opinion on some points. I'm sorry but splendor and excellence are not words I would use to describe this derivative (because it had already been done before by people - God isn't even original in his method of delivery; prophet + book = religion) approach.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy][B]Reading the Bible should be fun[/B]. Find out people's favorite scriptures, books, verses... Discover the brilliancy behind select scripture, the message.. ask questions[/QUOTE]
We reading the same bible? Reading playboy is fun. Bible? Not so much

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]...it also tells me that satan is one hell of a deceiver. (In other words..check your sources)[/QUOTE]

Check what sources? Are you attributing every religion that came before Judaism, and from all corners of the globe to Satan? Are you saying that no other religion that was formed by a (false) prophet and had subsequent teachings either oral or written was man-made but rather inspired by Satan?

You have to remember that Christian thought has been combating criticism since its inception and it now has plenty of in-built and quite ingenious defensive mechanisms.

One is attributing other religions as products of Satan - and by engaging or thinking about them he is leading you astray.

Two is the notion that the Bible is only inspired and not dictated by God - this allows for human errors to be accounted for, alleviating your dissonance towards the fact that "something ain't quite right."

Religion is such a huge flaw in modern society.


Just glad I wasn't brainwashed into it. Well they tried, I was just smart enough to see the fallacies

quick question.

I read once that the sales of the Bible and the Koran are not counted in official sales because the vast majority of those printed are given away. so the numbers on them are more what gets produced than what is sold. kinda like a record company saying 5,000,000 albums were shipped when they don't have the numbers on what sold. but they advertise. 5,000,000 sales

a lot of books sell in the hundreds of millions when you count being given away as a sale. the teachings of Mao in China for example.

Also.....



people crazy about their religion pretty much created truly widespread disdain for people different than them. people have been murdered for thousands of years for not swearing allegiance to this God or that God.

God fearers should be able to take a little harmless joking on the Internet. if all you had to deal with was one jerk on the internet for every person murdered in the name of god because of what some idiot took an old book to mean....... that seems more than fair to me

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]quick question.

I read once that the sales of the Bible and the Koran are not counted in official sales because the vast majority of those printed are given away. so the numbers on them are more what gets produced than what is sold. kinda like a record company saying 5,000,000 albums were shipped when they don't have the numbers on what sold. but they advertise. 5,000,000 sales

a lot of books sell in the hundreds of millions when you count being given away as a sale. the teachings of Mao in China for example.

Also.....



people crazy about their religion pretty much created truly widespread disdain for people different than them. people have been murdered for thousands of years for not swearing allegiance to this God or that God.

God fearers should be able to take a little harmless joking on the Internet. if all you had to deal with was one jerk on the internet for every person murdered in the name of god because of what some idiot took an old book to mean....... that seems more than fair to me[/QUOTE]

What exactly is the question?

part about the Bible sales often being more about what is produced than actually sold....

i imagine it would be hard to get concrete sales numbers on a book that its followers believe you shouldn't charge anybody for. so where do sales numbers really come from? not like only 1 place produces Bibles. and so many are given away it would be hard to keep up with the numbers.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]part about the Bible sales often being more about what is produced than actually sold....

i imagine it would be hard to get concrete sales numbers on a book that its followers believe you shouldn't charge anybody for. so where do sales numbers really come from? not like only 1 place produces Bibles. and so many are given away it would be hard to keep up with the numbers.[/QUOTE]

Even though they are given away someone has to buy them from the publisher. So I guess they are still "sold." But it is still misleading.

I don't know who is constantly needing bibles though, my entire family is atheist and we have like 3 or 4 of them in our house. Surely if you are a believer you'd have one handy somewhere. We have one that my Grandma was given in school, so it'd be about 70-75 years old, they are pretty sturdy books.

many people produce the Bible for free so it's not even sold from the publisher. but yes just about everyone has Bibles. I have more than one and also have a Koran somewhere. well not the Koran its one of those books claiming to explain what it means in English. I may even have a book of Mormon somewhere though I'm not sure I kept it after I moved.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]I'm saying check the sources that are telling you these things, [B]that are claiming plagiarism[/B], etc.. The whole Zeitgeist deal for example. I'll get to the rest of what you posted when I get off, you too kblaze. Good to see you posting in here[/QUOTE]

I didn't say the Bible was plagiarized. I said God used exactly the same method to deliver his word as every [B]man-made[/B] religion that preceded Judaism and Christianity. Which raises a red flag. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

I believe in a creator but not in one that needs a blood sacrifice to forgive sin, that seems unGodly to me and that is just one example. There are many examples of attributes that are attributed to GOD that I have trouble believing.

[QUOTE=MMM]I believe in a creator but not in one that needs a blood sacrifice to forgive sin, that seems unGodly to me and that is just one example. [B]There are many examples of attributes that are attributed to GOD that I have trouble believing.[/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed. If he exists I feel bad for him. Imagine if people painted a picture like that about you?

I can not possibly reconcile the idea that the same God that created quantum physics and biological organisms would also initiate such a poorly formed rule book. It is such a logical disconnect that it actually pains me to think about.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]The Bible being inspired by God, and not dictated is in the Bible itself ([url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy+3%3A16&version=KJV]see 2 Timothy 3:16[/url], other places as well I'm sure. May look them up and get back to this)[/QUOTE]

Christianity existed before the New Testament.

[quote]However, most modern critical scholars argue that 2 Timothy was not written by Paul but by an anonymous follower, after Paul's death in the First Century. Most scholars now affirm this view.[/quote]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Epistle_to_Timothy[/url]

It'd almost be required for the author to put that line in.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]I'm saying check the sources that are telling you these things, that are claiming plagiarism, etc.. [/QUOTE]

Yes, check the sources for everything else except what you believe in. Not at all a flawed system.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]I can say the same thing in my favor[/QUOTE]

You shouldn't need defensive mechanisms. The arguments should stand on their own merits.

What makes science work is that theories either hold water or they don't, and if they don't you discard them, you don't hold on to them by creating ad-hoc hypotheses.

This thread didn't turn into the mess I expected and is a fun read due to some well educated posters who seem pretty knowledgeable putting aside the uneducated ones.

Props to BuGZBuNNy, miller-time and all the other educated people who've made this thread an enjoyable debate to read.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]Zeitgeist was clearly bs. This chart...

..clearly bs :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

I wasn't talking about any direct relationship to the stories within the bible. But the medium as a whole. Like I said: Prophet + Written/Oral Stories = Religion.

Why would he do what people have already been doing for thousands of years?

Actually a similar argument was made in Bill Maher's "Religulous " where he compared Jesus to a bunch of other religious figures and a lot of the comparisons were BS or very vague and shaky at best.

[QUOTE=Edwin]This thread didn't turn into the mess I expected and is a fun read due to some well educated posters who seem pretty knowledgeable putting aside the uneducated ones.

Props to BuGZBuNNy, miller-time and all the other educated people [B]who've made this thread an enjoyable debate to read.[/B][/QUOTE]

Aww man, now I feel pressure to make better arguments lol.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]Soooo..you're saying that that specific verse is likely a defensive mechanism to critics claiming error? That before this verse people believed the Bible was other than inspired by God?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure, I am only speculating. But it can certainly be used for that reason there-after.

We could raise the same point with any verse, in any religious text and it'd be difficult to separate intention and actuality. Generally I try not to argue too much inside of the Bible because it is an internally consistent narrative. Whether passages were put in there with an external motive in mind we can't really know.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]Zeitgeist was clearly bs. This chart...

..clearly bs :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

I don't remember mentioning zeitgeist. You and I have been down this road before, you know I have the goods to prove my point :D

So I'll just leave it at this- the connections to Christianity between religions and philosophies that predate it are undeniable. As Miller Time alluded to before, nothing claimed in Christianity is particularly new or unique and has its roots in older traditions. It is just the continuation of a game of telephone that was started as far back (at the latest) as 1000 BC in Persia.

Allah=God=Yahweh=Ahura Mazda

The bible is no more 'excellent' or full of 'splendor' than the Q'uran, the Torah, the Avesta, etc. You just choose to believe that. Which is your prerogative. But the point still stands.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]Give me these religions and sources. [/QUOTE]

A good place to start would be Zoroastrianism. Plenty of material online about the belief system and you can also read the source material in the Avesta, gothas, etc.

Zarathustra laid the foundation for the dominant world religions (the so called Abrahamic religions). He claimed it all began when he was inspired by the word of the one true God, which was remarkable considering the religious beliefs of his time dictated a multitude of deities.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]So I'll just leave it at this- the connections to Christianity between religions and philosophies that predate it are undeniable. As Miller Time alluded to before, nothing claimed in Christianity is particularly new or unique and has its roots in older traditions. It is just the continuation of a game of telephone that was started as far back (at the latest) as 1000 BC in Persia.[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting video on the history of the Bible and God, I have posted it on here before.

Part 1

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg[/url]

Part 2

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPfFx9JTQl8[/url]

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]Surely if he wanted it to be flawless he'd of written it himself[/QUOTE]

Why would he want to inspire an imperfect book? The image I have of God is that he is constantly dissatisfied with imperfection. It is essentially the main theme of the book. Yet the book is the most imperfect product produced by God so far.

Although the tree of knowledge and flooding the entire world weren't his best ideas either...

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]:oldlol: You've been fighting the bad fight too long man. The mere fact that some things submitted by your sources are clearly bs says something. [/QUOTE]

Negro please. Do I have to post your thread where you threw in the towel during our exchange? :oldlol:

You just choose to believe whatever makes you feel good vs what is actually true. Like I said before, that's your prerogative. But don't try to pass off plagiarized mythology as undeniable truth and then dismiss anything that aims to illuminate that as 'clearly bs'.

[QUOTE][B]As a Christian im of the belief[/B] that every alleged error, contradiction, accusation of plagiarism..has more than a plausible explanation given a thorough understanding. Keep in mind that I'm not against the idea that God didn't care for a book that was flawless or free of error and I think post two supports that. Surely if he wanted it to be flawless he'd of written it himself
The legacy, the impact (both on individuals and the world as a whole) of the Bible compared to these books is on another level. That cannot be disputed. If thats what I'm calling splendor and excellence, you must agree. I hate to submit a reply so fast b/c I could never sum its greatness up so quickly. It covers so much ground, really every aspect of life..[i]more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen[/i]. I must agree[/QUOTE]

You could've stopped right there. That's all it comes down to. You have no interest in truth, you are more than happy to continue on in conditioned belief. Everything you say, hundreds of millions say the same of the Q'uran, or Star Wars or Harry Potter. You like the book, great. But nothing about it's perceived (your perception) 'splendor' or 'excellence' is undeniable or even unique.

[QUOTE=miller-time]This is an interesting video on the history of the Bible and God, I have posted it on here before.

Part 1

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg[/url]

Part 2

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPfFx9JTQl8[/url][/QUOTE]

I'm sure I've seen it before, will check it out again later. The course of religious belief in Judea shifted dramatically after the Hebrews came into contact with the Zoroastrians during the Babylonian captivity and began co-opting their ideas. You still see the fruit of those seeds being planted today, case in point the OP believing things Zarathustra spoke about many centuries before Paul and Constantine.

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]Gods part in the Bible is the message, and the message is [b]perfect[/b]. I've remained that constant throughout the thread[/QUOTE]

Well it seems like a poor way to treat a perfect message. It'd be like taking a photo of Scarlett Johansson with a 1st generation camera phone.