F uck vegans, like seriously.

[url]http://youtu.be/63NNuG-6-hQ[/url] :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]My woman is a vegetarian (not vegan), she will eat fish, seafood, and eggs, just not meat.

I can't do it myself but I do try to eat organic meat only if I can...that way I know the animals were out on a range and not tortured...it also has no steroids or hormones or other additives that are bad for you...and it also tastes so much better, [B]it is very noticible actually[/B][/QUOTE]

Yep.

We went organic with the Milk and now with the Chicken. We are trying beef too but it's very expensive here. It tastes a lot different and you get used to it real quickly.

OP has good karma coming his way.

[QUOTE=niko]Yep.

We went organic with the Milk and now with the Chicken. We are trying beef too but it's very expensive here. It tastes a lot different and you get used to it real quickly.[/QUOTE]
yeah, I think it pretty much doubles the price unfortunately

a good 1 lb. cut of organic streak is in the $15-$20 range...it is expensive

still cheaper than most overpriced steak houses though...

DeuceWallaces gets his daily protein in part from the application of semen to his skin. Not his own semen though. And nothing gay; he doesn't ingest it. Ever notice how radiantly pale and tender his skin appears? It's all from vegetables and jizz.

[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]Well your opinion is completely false. Animal flesh is not very good for you nor is it necessary; lots of carcinogens.[/QUOTE]
No, humans need protein in their diets, it's not even debatable. Tofu/Soy Beans/Whatever garbage Vegans eat isn't going to cut it.

And what the f[COLOR="Black"]uc[/COLOR]k DOESN'T have carcinogens nowadays? F[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]cking hot showers increase your cancer risk...
[url]http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/01/25/2003494382[/url]

[QUOTE=niko]Yep.

We went organic with the Milk and now with the Chicken. We are trying beef too but it's very expensive here. It tastes a lot different and you get used to it real quickly.[/QUOTE]

My mind was blown the first time I had organic milk compared to the normal stuff. I couldnt believe how much better it tasted.

Organic meat (especially beef) tastes sooo much better, it's incredible. I was shocked when I first tasted organic meat.

Reminds me of the King Of The Hill when Hank starts shopping and working at the co-op run by the hippies so he can continue to get organic meat and veggies. :oldlol: :oldlol:

Also, it's really not hard at all for Vegans to get their required amount of protein. Vegans can get protein in a bunch of different foods, it's not hard at all.

It is, however, extremely hard to Vegans to get their Vitamin B12. They usually can only get their B12 from supplements or certain fortified foods.

If you guys don't think doing a vegan diet correctly isn't extremely healthy, you're foolish. It's an incredibly healthy diet if done right. It also can be an incredibly harmful diet if not done correctly and diligently.

[QUOTE=tpols]Was reading about the paleolithic diet that year other day..

[URL="http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html"]http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html[/URL]

Basically we as a species over tens of thousands of years built our genes on..

Fish/meat
Root vegetables
Eggs
Fruits
Nuts

.. The most nutrient rich foods that are bodies are built to absorb.

Grains, sugars and potatoes basically any veggies that need to be cooked contain all types of evolutionary based toxins in them. That's why we cook them out. Meat has been part of our diet and is very important. The article actually gives the full detail of how certain foods developed to be eaten or not be eaten.[/QUOTE]
These days paleo people are about as high and mighty as vegans/vegetarians are.

You can't completely stop yourself from exploiting animals for your own benefit, but you can absolutely try to reduce it to levels necessary for your survival in the modern world. I respect that. I don't respect someone who shoves their ideals into my face and tries to belittle my omnivorous lifestyle.

Humans, as far as we know, were not meant to eat meat. We have to cook it to safely eat it or risk becoming diseased. Religion can be the answer to this, i.e whether or not a god meant for us to cook meant, but that can go into its own separate debate.

The one thing I don't get is why they are against drinking animal based milk and eating animal cheese. It's not like the animals are cut up for those products.

[QUOTE=ballup]Humans, as far as we know, were not meant to eat meat.[/QUOTE]

Sure we are. Early humans were hunters and gatherers. Not just gatherers.

Men hunted for meat, women gathered plants and nuts and shit.

[QUOTE=sunsfan1357]These days paleo people are about as high and mighty as vegans/vegetarians are.[/QUOTE]
Eh.. Paleo is just about getting max beneficial nutrients into your body and eliminating toxins to promote the best health possible. It's not a social cause where vegans will be all high and mighty calling other people scumbags because they support animal slaughter and whatnot. Vegans have more elaborate motives for their lifestyle.

I don't even follow this totally but I try to get as much servings of good veggies and good fruits as possible. Too much work to cancel everything else out.

[QUOTE=The Real JW]Sure we are. Early humans were hunters and gatherers. Not just gatherers.

Men hunted for meat, women gathered plants and nuts and shit.[/QUOTE]
Did you not read the next lines? If we were meant to be true omnivores, we would be able to eat meat raw.

[QUOTE=ballup]Did you not read the next lines? If we were meant to be true omnivores, we would be able to eat meat raw.[/QUOTE]
I know people who eat raw meat. Its not that uncommon. You can become conditioned to eat worms if that's what your survival requires.

[QUOTE=ballup]If we were meant to be true omnivores, we would be able to eat meat raw.[/QUOTE]

Says who?

[QUOTE=Hazard]I know people who eat raw meat. Its not that uncommon. You can become conditioned to eat worms if that's what your survival requires.[/QUOTE]
That's the thing, you have to be conditioned for it instead of eating it naturally like all other carnivores do.

[QUOTE=GreatGreg]No, humans need protein in their diets, it's not even debatable. Tofu/Soy Beans/Whatever garbage Vegans eat isn't going to cut it.

And what the f[COLOR="Black"]uc[/COLOR]k DOESN'T have carcinogens nowadays? F[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]cking hot showers increase your cancer risk...
[url]http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2011/01/25/2003494382[/url][/QUOTE]

Yeah, protein only comes from animal flesh; f[I]u[/I]cktard.

[QUOTE=The Real JW]Says who?[/QUOTE]
Like I said, if we aren't factoring religion causes into this, our biological construction, that we have come to known, does not allow us to combat diseases originating from raw foods. When you get illnesses from eating raw meat, your body signals to your mind that eating raw meat is a bad idea.

This is not to say that humans were not able to eat raw meat at one point. There is a great possibility that was humans could process raw meat in the past.

[QUOTE=ballup]That's the thing, you have to be conditioned for it instead of eating it naturally like all other carnivores do.[/QUOTE]
Now I'm curious if you can condition a lion to eat broccoli.

The whole argument that humans aren't meant to do something falls apart with the fact that humans have done everything your mind can and cant comprehend. So basically we're meant to be complete abominations and defy every boundary that is placed upon us. That's why I think human beings as a race are simply the shit.

[QUOTE=Hazard]Now I'm curious if you can condition a lion to eat broccoli.[/QUOTE]
That's the nature vs nurture argument. Probably possible, not sure how well its lifestyle can adjust to it though.

I've known a few people who've tried to force their cats to be vegan, I find that to be cruel and unusual punishment for the cat.

[QUOTE=ballup]That's the thing, you have to be conditioned for it instead of eating it naturally like all other carnivores do.[/QUOTE]Raw meat is safe as long as you buy the proper raw meat. Any meat from a mass producer is going to be suspect, but the free range meats are safe to eat raw. All the bad things in raw meat come from they're living conditions, there's a sizable following of people in the US that live a "primal" lifestyle eating raw foods. You can find a decent amount of info on the subject.

Myself no way. Other than Sushi I want it cooked

[QUOTE=ballup]That's the nature vs nurture argument. Probably possible, not sure how well its lifestyle can adjust to it though.[/QUOTE]Growing up we had a cat that loved lettuce for some odd reason

If we weren't meant to eat animals, why do they taste so bloody good :D

Especially straight off the grill.

[QUOTE=DeuceWallaces]Yeah, protein only comes from animal flesh; f[I]u[/I]cktard.[/QUOTE]
The acceptable amount does. Face it; the vegan diet ISN'T healthy.

[QUOTE=GreatGreg]The acceptable amount does. Face it; the vegan diet ISN'T healthy.[/QUOTE]

I've read that vegan's have similar mortality rates as meat eaters and that vegetarians or people who supplement their diets with meat are better off.

[quote=fiddy]dude wtf??????? :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

As a matter of fact 500 000 people in Asia go blind because of a diet based on high rice intake.

[URL="http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5712/2"]http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5712/2[/URL][/quote]


Jesus Christ learn to f*cking read you stupid f*ck! I said rice paired with a legume such as soy beans provides a complete protein, ie all the complements of amino acids the body needs. Look it up moron.

Now I'm not a vegan, far from it. But there's so much misinformation here.

[URL="http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm"]http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm[/URL]


[quote] Some Americans are obsessed with protein. Vegans are bombarded with questions about where they get their protein. Athletes used to eat thick steaks before competition because they thought it would improve their performance. Protein supplements are sold at health food stores. This concern about protein is misplaced. Although protein is certainly an essential nutrient which plays many key roles in the way our bodies function, we do not need huge quantities of it. In reality, we need small amounts of protein. Only one calorie out of every ten we take in needs to come from protein [URL="http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm#r1"][COLOR=#0000ff]1[/COLOR][/URL]. Athletes do not need much more protein than the general public [URL="http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm#r2"][COLOR=#0000ff]2[/COLOR][/URL]. Protein supplements are expensive, unnecessary, and even harmful for some people.
How much protein do we need? The RDA recommends that we take in 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram that we weigh (or about 0.36 grams of protein per pound that we weigh) [URL="http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm#r1"][COLOR=#0000ff]1[/COLOR][/URL]. This recommendation includes a generous safety factor for most people. When we make a few adjustments to account for some plant proteins being digested somewhat differently from animal proteins and for the amino acid mix in some plant proteins, we arrive at a level of 1 gram of protein per kilogram body weight (0.45 grams of protein per pound that we weigh). Since vegans eat a variety of plant protein sources, somewhere between 0.8 and 1 gram of protein per kilogram would be a protein recommendation for vegans. If we do a few calculations we see that the protein recommendation for vegans amounts to close to 10% of calories coming from protein. [For example, a 79 kg vegan male aged 25 to 50 years could have an estimated calorie requirement of 2900 calories per day. His protein needs might be as high as 79 kg x 1 gram/kg = 79 grams of protein. 79 grams of protein x 4 calories/gram of protein = 316 calories from protein per day. 316 calories from protein divided by 2900 calories = 10.1% of calories from protein.] If we look at what vegans are eating, we find that between 10-12% of calories come from protein [URL="http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm#r3"][COLOR=#0000ff]3[/COLOR][/URL]. This contrasts with the protein intake of non-vegetarians, which is close to 14-18% of calories.
So, in the United States it appears that vegan diets are commonly lower in protein than standard American diets. Remember, though, with protein, more (than the RDA) is not necessarily better. There do not appear to be health advantages to consuming a high protein diet. Diets that are high in protein may even increase the risk of osteoporosis [URL="http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm#r4"][COLOR=#0000ff]4[/COLOR][/URL] and kidney disease [URL="http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm#r5"][COLOR=#0000ff]5[/COLOR][/URL]. [/quote]

[QUOTE=ballup]The one thing I don't get is why they are against drinking animal based milk and eating animal cheese. It's not like the animals are cut up for those products.[/QUOTE]

Besides humans, what other species drink the milk from a different species? And what other species drink any milk past infancy?

I do not drink any animal based milk directly but I do still eat cheese on occasion, but I would guess some people may also be against these things because, although the animals aren't killed, they may still be treated poorly.

Vegans get a bad rap because of the outspoken, I'm better than you talk, minority which is sad. I commend people who do it though. As others have alluded to, it is healthy, as long as you keep up with what your eating. Your potential complete lack of essential nutrients is a very real possibility if you are not aware of it.

Completely random, I happen to find a large majority of vegetarian girls I meet to be very fat. I find it amusing.

[QUOTE=timlush]Besides humans, what other species drink the milk from a different species? And what other species drink any milk past infancy?

I do not drink any animal based milk directly but I do still eat cheese on occasion, but I would guess some people may also be against these things because, although the animals aren't killed, they may still be treated poorly.[/QUOTE]

Let's be honest here, drinking the milk of a different species isn't the weirdest thing humans do to food.

[QUOTE=rufuspaul]Jesus Christ learn to f*cking read you stupid f*ck! I said rice paired with a legume such as soy beans provides a complete protein, ie all the complements of amino acids the body needs. Look it up moron.

Now I'm not a vegan, far from it. But there's so much misinformation here.

[URL="http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm"]http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm[/URL][/QUOTE]

Great post, Rufus.

People are beyond ignorant. I've been a vegetarian for 5 years now and I lost the count regarding stupid questions after one week and nowadays I don't really tell people that I'm a vegetarian because it gets too annoying to answer the same stupid questions etc..

And spot on about soy beans, I even got in better shape after becoming a vegetarian and I played in the swedish basketball league as a vegetarian and I had zero problems. Although being a vegan in something I wouldn't be able to do but vegans who eat what they're supposed to eat are healthy.

And finally, I find it hilarious how meat-eaters are so ignorant when it comes to people who skip meat a la "they don't eat the right things", "they eat no food with proteins" etc., but at the same time we live in the era with the most obese people and people overall are overconsuming food and meat like never before..

[quote=GatorKid117]Completely random, I happen to find a large majority of vegetarian girls I meet to be very fat. I find it amusing.[/quote]


Ah yes, the starchitarians. They don't eat meat but down french fries and cake.

[QUOTE=rufuspaul]Jesus Christ learn to f*cking read you stupid f*ck! I said rice paired with a legume such as soy beans provides a complete protein, ie all the complements of amino acids the body needs. Look it up moron.



[URL="http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm"]http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm[/URL][/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: Extremely credible source. And Soy? NO ****ING THANKS!

Bottom line every person is absolutely invididual. Being vegetarian is totally senseless IMO.


I cant stop laughing at people that caring about animals being killed. :facepalm
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inFtOMx8nDU[/url]

[quote=fiddy] And Soy? NO ****ING THANKS!
[/quote]


You've never had edemame? Miso?

[QUOTE=fiddy]:roll: :roll: Extremely credible source. And Soy? NO ****ING THANKS!

Bottom line every person is absolutely invididual. Being vegetarian is totally senseless IMO.


[B]I cant stop laughing at people that caring about animals being killed.[/B] :facepalm
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inFtOMx8nDU[/url][/QUOTE]


Is this is meant as a general statement you are quite a piece of garbage - as a human being.

[QUOTE=hookul]Is this is meant as a general statement you are quite a piece of garbage - as a human being.[/QUOTE]
:durantunimpressed:


[QUOTE=rufuspaul]You've never had edemame? Miso?[/QUOTE]

Nope. Its common knoledge among the body bulding communities that protein that comes plants is harder to be extracted/abosrbed by the body.



[QUOTE]
There are two forms of isoflavones in plant foods: those bonded with the sugar glycone and those without glycone. Isoflavones without glycone may have the greatest estrogenic effects, according to New York University. Neither form of isoflavones appears to raise estrogen levels above normal in men because they are prone to bond with the estrogen receptor sites in cells when estrogen levels are low, and they block estrogen cell receptors when there is already an adequate amount of estrogen in your body.

...

One fear men have with regards to consuming soy-based phytoestrogen is that it could affect testosterone levels and make it difficult to achieve an erection. Columbia University states that the regulation of estrogen levels performed by soy isoflavones likely prevents this from happening. However, a 2011 case study appearing in "Nutrition" outlines the treatment of a 19-year-old vegan male who had low levels of testosterone and a loss of libido. The subject discontinued his vegan diet and experienced an initial drop in testosterone levels, but his hormones and libido normalized after one year of remaining off of the vegan diet.
[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.livestrong.com/article/519107-soy-estrogen-in-men/[/url]

Btw cholestorol is also very important in small quantinties. Where do you get that from?

[quote=fiddy]
Nope. Its common knoledge [B]among the body bulding communities[/B] that protein that comes plants is harder to be extracted/abosrbed by the body.[/Quote]

:roll:

Now I see where your brain is at. So you won't eat at a Japanese restaurant? Edemame and miso are delicious as well as being good sources of protein.

[Quote]
Btw cholestorol is also very important in small quantinties. Where do you get that from?[/quote]


Dumbass, I eat meat. I also eat a lot of fruits, vegetables, grains, etc. But you should just follow what's being said on the bodybuilding forums. Have fun getting that angioplasty at 40.

[QUOTE=rufuspaul]:roll:

Edemame and miso are delicious as well as being good sources of protein.

[/QUOTE]
I dont deny it. The reason i wont eat at japanese/chinese restaurants is the abuse of MSG. And also this: [url]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=268_1355287490[/url]
Also this kind restaurants arent very common where i live.

Btw people around the bb communities know more about nutriotion than the vegan ****. I have never eat like a bodybuilder or train like one. I like keeping fit. Thats all.

I know one thing 100% for sure being a vegan is not healthy. Not sure about the vegetarians, but they should be able to get most of what they need from eggs.

About cholesterol.

[url]http://www.livestrong.com/article/105425-cholesterol-important-health/[/url]

[url]http://www.cholesterol-tests.com/What_Is_Cholesterol.html[/url]

[QUOTE=rufuspaul]You've never had edemame? Miso?[/QUOTE]
That stuff is good. They are like the wet version of peanuts.

Although I eat plenty of meat, soy is great alternative I like to have every so often.