ESPN Spin On Lance Armstrong Cheating - "He's like Robin Hood".

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Anyone who can beat cancer is a champion in my book. I don't care about his titles or the fact that he used enhancers.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes: the beating of cancer doesn't come down to how good of a person you are. Does anyone who dies of cancer become a loser?

lmfao at media fiends who get fooled by an asshole cause he rand a charity :lol and I thought people like that were only in movies, nobody could be that stupid. :facepalm

Did he admit to lying about having cancer to Oprah? With all his lies and tactics it wouldn't surprise me to one day find out he faked cancer as well, dude is a compulsive liar in a sport full of drug cheats. The whole PED thing does not bother me cause a large % of athletes do it but its all the lies outside of it to make himself look good that I question.

Good guy Lance.

[QUOTE=Derka]Pathetic reasoning. Jerry Sandusky ran a charity that helped a lot more boys than he was able to get his dick into, and continues to help them. I don't hear anyone giving him a free pass.

Lance Armstrong is a vile human who should be shot at the next sunrise.[/QUOTE]

[img]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/images/300x/5377538.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=gigantes]and are you going to be responsible for creating every fukcing thread on ISH regarding lance armstrong from here on out?

i mean, so you just created a 'lance armstrong thread on oprah' a day or two ago... now you're apparently not thrilled how its been going and so its time for ANOTHER NEW THREAD to start over with your own original confirmation bias completely intact?

really?

and this is swaying HOW MANY of the people who originally disagreed with you how, exactly?

please do enlighten me, sir...[/QUOTE]
huh? This is more a shot at ESPN. I don't think Lance is the devil but he's not Robin Hood. This is my ESPN bashing thread. I don't think i posted much in the other thread, did i?

[QUOTE=IGOTGAME]I'm happy you view on morality is so self-centered and short sighted.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm Yes my view on morality is short sighted because I don't give a shit about how someone wins a stupid bike race but do care that they were instrumental in doing some good for people fighting cancer.

It's probably you who needs a double check on what's important and what's not

:oldlol: At all the Texans coming in here and defending this douche.


Anyway, I'm just glad he had the ball to finally confess.

[QUOTE=niko]huh? This is more a shot at ESPN. I don't think Lance is the devil but he's not Robin Hood. This is my ESPN bashing thread. I don't think i posted much in the other thread, did i?[/QUOTE]
are you sure this isn't Lance's stance on what happened?...that he viewed himself as a "Robin Hood" type?

this might be Lance's spin on this...not ESPN, they are just repeating his own views

[QUOTE=rufuspaul]:oldlol: At all the Texans coming in here and defending this douche.


Anyway, I'm just glad he had the ball to finally confess.[/QUOTE]
not defending him, I am just saying to me it looks like more good came out of this than bad...

the good = millions $ were raised for cancer research (very important in the grand scheme of things)

the bad = someone cheated at sports (totally unimportant in the grand scheme of things)

in a world where everyone is doping , lance still won, so i dont see the big deal. EVERYONE LITERALLY DOPES AT THE PROFESSIONAL LEVEL

:hammerhead:

[QUOTE=daily]:facepalm Yes my view on morality is short sighted because I don't give a shit about how someone wins a stupid bike race but do care that they were instrumental in doing some good for people fighting cancer.

It's probably you who needs a double check on what's important and what's not[/QUOTE]
You now going into the negative levels of credibility... :no:

[QUOTE=Jello]If you are comparing those boys to the "ruined" lives of Armstrong's detractors, then you are way off base. [b]I'm not buying it that his detractors were of noble intentions. They were in a sport with a systemic prisoner's dilemma to be the best[/b]. They were a part of an already dirty sport and they were calling out the best doper because he was on top. [b]It is bullshit to sit there and think you wouldn't lash out at people attacking your own livelihood, especially when they are also eating the forbidden fruit to gain success.[/b][/QUOTE]

Have been thinking the exact same thing. Not saying it was "right," but at the end of the day he did the exact same thing any lawyer or professional advisor would have advised him to do ---- protect his image by any means necessary.

[QUOTE=2LeTTeRS]Have been thinking the exact same thing. Not saying it was "right," but at the end of the day he did the exact same thing any lawyer or professional advisor would have advised him to do ---- protect his image by any means necessary.[/QUOTE]
There are a lot of lawyers that would have told him to come clean. The issues with Armstrong aren't just about him being a cheater (and the fact that one of his main defenses is that everyone else did it shows how indefensible he truly is). It's also about the massive amount of covering up he's done, lying to protect one lie after another. This could be the biggest web of deceit sports has ever seen. [URL="http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2013/01/16/3670435.htm?site=sydney"]No lawyer worth his degree would have told Armstrong to lie under oath.[/URL] Depending on what he says in this interview he's looking at an avalanche of lawsuits. I'm not sure where all of this will lead, we've got over a decade of falsehood to wade through but this could even lead to criminal court for all we know. Perjury is a serious thing and we are just seeing the beginning of what he may be about to get hit with.

So can we expect a discount on LiveStrong clothing now that we know Lance was a doper?

its unbelievable to me some americans continue to make excuses for him. before it was "but he didn't test positive" despite it being obvious and with so much overwhelming evidence, and the funniest thing about that is the Lance supporters jumped to "well the whole sport is doping" ...guess what? the whole sport hadn't tested positive either....his supporters are just constant hypocrites....and now its this robin hood cancer fighting BS like that excuses him from being one of the biggest pompous cheaters and blatant liars ever to live :facepalm

i mean when the basis of his fame and riches was from cheating and cancer charities benefited from that, its absolutely ridiculous how they keep ignoring the basis of him cheating to get to where he is. then on top of that which IMO is the worst part is he vehemently lied to the world for decades and being so vindictive towards those accusing him like he was so wrongly accused. that in itself just makes me utterly despise him. i honestly can't say i've seen any behavior worse than that from anybody of fame, its the lowest of the low to lie so manipulatively and on such a large scale.

it just makes me sick how people still support that dude :mad:

drug cartel leaders should start donating to cancer charities too. maybe people will start supporting them and ignoring where the money is coming from...

[QUOTE=kNIOKAS]You now going into the negative levels of credibility... :no:[/QUOTE] :roll:

Why because I'm not going to wrap myself in the cape of faux moral outrage over an athlete caught doping then lying to cover it up in a sport that since 1995 36 of the 45 podium finishers in the tour de france have been caught doping? Since 1996 there's been close to 300 riders in the tour alone that have been caught with some form of illegal performance enhancement, that's just one event and those are only the ones they caught how many like Armstrong slipped through the cracks yet you think I'm not credible because I'm not getting worked up over one rider? piss on that shit.

Grow up, Armstrong got caught cheating in a sport that's rampant with cheaters. get mad about the sport itself and it's culture of corruption from the top down.

Did he throw people under the bus, you bet and who cares really. The people he screwed over were for the most part every bit as guilty as him, most having already been caught and were just whistle blowing to save their own careers.

Sorry if my cynical outlook bothers you but like I said, I refuse to pretend Armstrong performed some evil deed in a pristine environment, He was a snake in a pit full of snakes.

[QUOTE=daily]:roll:

Why because I'm not going to wrap myself in the cape of faux moral outrage over an athlete caught doping then lying to cover it up in a sport that since 1995 36 of the 45 podium finishers in the tour de france have been caught doping? Since 1996 there's been close to 300 riders in the tour alone that have been caught with some form of illegal performance enhancement, that's just one event and those are only the ones they caught how many like Armstrong slipped through the cracks yet you think I'm not credible because I'm not getting worked up over one rider? piss on that shit.

Grow up, Armstrong got caught cheating in a sport that's rampant with cheaters. get mad about the sport itself and it's culture of corruption from the top down.

Did he throw people under the bus, you bet and who cares really. The people he screwed over were for the most part every bit as guilty as him, most having already been caught and were just whistle blowing to save their own careers.

Sorry if my cynical outlook bothers you but like I said, I refuse to pretend Armstrong performed some evil deed in a pristine environment, He was a snake in a pit full of snakes.[/QUOTE]

but has every rider tested positive? you all can't use that defense for Armstrong, and then once he is definitively guilty jump to "well the whole sport is full of cheaters".

you see how hypocritical that is, right?

proof that im not godzuki ^^^^^^^

[QUOTE=Budadiiii]proof that im not godzuki ^^^^^^^[/QUOTE]


lol who said you were? granted i did have a budaas account back in the day...think that was my original ezboard acct.

[QUOTE=Godzuki][B]lol who said you were[/B]? granted i did have a budaas account back in the day...think that was my original ezboard acct.[/QUOTE]
These two clowns GreatGreg and Millwad :facepalm

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green]There are a lot of lawyers that would have told him to come clean. The issues with Armstrong aren't just about him being a cheater (and the fact that one of his main defenses is that everyone else did it shows how indefensible he truly is). It's also about the massive amount of covering up he's done, lying to protect one lie after another. This could be the biggest web of deceit sports has ever seen. [URL="http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2013/01/16/3670435.htm?site=sydney"]No lawyer worth his degree would have told Armstrong to lie under oath.[/URL] Depending on what he says in this interview he's looking at an avalanche of lawsuits. I'm not sure where all of this will lead, we've got over a decade of falsehood to wade through but this could even lead to criminal court for all we know. Perjury is a serious thing and we are just seeing the beginning of what he may be about to get hit with.[/QUOTE]

So now we're going to use revisionist history and pretend the lawyers 5-10 years ago knew what we all know now?

A good lawyer would not knowingly allow a person to lie on stand, but it's the lawyers job to give his client the representation he would give to himself if he had the education, not to verify the statements that his client is saying is true. Since the facts suggest that Armstrong never revealed to this lawyer the fact that he used PEDs his lawyer did nothing wrong.

[QUOTE=Budadiiii]These two clowns GreatGreg and Millwad :facepalm[/QUOTE]

oh lol they hate me so i'm not surprised they're all paranoid and pressed :lol

[QUOTE=2LeTTeRS]So now we're going to use revisionist history and pretend the lawyers 5-10 years ago knew what we all know now?

A good lawyer would not knowingly allow a person to lie on stand, but its not the lawyers job to give his client the representation he would give to himself if he had the education, not to verify the statements that his client is saying is true. Since the facts suggest that Armstrong never revealed to this lawyer the fact that he used PEDs his lawyer did nothing wrong.[/QUOTE]
A good lawyer also gets accurate info from his client so he can give the best advice possible. If Armstrong decides to lie to his lawyer as well then there's nothing anyone can do so this convo is pointless but if the lawyer knows how dirty Armstrong is he isn't letting him lie on the stand. That's not me revising history that's reality...something Armstrong and his defenders have been avoiding for a long time now.

[QUOTE=daily]:roll:

Why because I'm not going to wrap myself in the cape of faux moral outrage over an athlete caught doping then lying to cover it up in a sport that since 1995 36 of the 45 podium finishers in the tour de france have been caught doping? Since 1996 there's been close to 300 riders in the tour alone that have been caught with some form of illegal performance enhancement, that's just one event and those are only the ones they caught how many like Armstrong slipped through the cracks yet you think I'm not credible because I'm not getting worked up over one rider? piss on that shit.

Grow up, Armstrong got caught cheating in a sport that's rampant with cheaters. get mad about the sport itself and it's culture of corruption from the top down.

Did he throw people under the bus, you bet and who cares really. The people he screwed over were for the most part every bit as guilty as him, most having already been caught and were just whistle blowing to save their own careers.

Sorry if my cynical outlook bothers you but like I said, I refuse to pretend Armstrong performed some evil deed in a pristine environment, He was a snake in a pit full of snakes.[/QUOTE]
That's actually a great point.

I can play along your lines and put it this way: he's the kig pin in that ball of snakes, the most corrupted and the most vile, and he must the chairman representing what is wrong with the sport.

Do we, as society, applaud the most cunning criminal who survived because of such traits? Thinking: well, he's best at[I] something[/I], right?

Now, actually pop culture loves the villains, you have nassy titling himself after Pablo Escobar (who shot down the civilian plane), you have multiple people admiring the character of Al Capone, the Godfather series is the cultural phenomenon in US and so on. Yet, you have to admit those guys were scum of the earth and just didn't have the compassion that stops a decent human being from killing and torturing others.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]but has every rider tested positive? you all can't use that defense for Armstrong, and then once he is definitively guilty jump to "well the whole sport is full of cheaters".

you see how hypocritical that is, right?[/QUOTE]You're asking me to speak for other people, but I will defend a persons right to change their mind as new evidence come forward.

From day 1 on Armstrong alone my stance was, he's innocent until proven guilty and if he is found guilty oh well, it's not like a surprise or anything when you consider the sport he competes in is known as a sport rampant with cheating among the athletes and corruption among the organizers. the numbers of people involved with doping in cycling is staggering.

Think of the fact you have since 1996 alone nearly 300 riders have been caught doping. Then think of the number of team managers, support persons, doctors, sponsors, family members had to know about it. You're into 1000's of people from one event alone involved in the worst kept secret in sports.

That's why I refuse to act like I'm shocked by Armstrong's revelations.

On the flip side I have to applaud the man who used his notoriety no matter how gained to build a foundation that's raised close to half a billion dollars for cancer research and support of those fighting the horrible disease because it's a topic much closer to home in reality.

When you think about it in the grand scheme of things. You, I or anyone here posting on ISH has a better chance of having our lives effected by Lance Armstrong through the Live Strong foundation than we do through his participating in cycle racing.

[QUOTE=kNIOKAS]That's actually a great point.

I can play along your lines and put it this way: he's the king pin in that ball of snakes, the most corrupted and the most vile, and he must the chairman representing what is wrong with the sport.

[/QUOTE]You could say he's the perfect storm of cheating.

Smart, clearly very business savvy, obviously athletically fit enough to maximize the effects of doping and a born leader.

[quote=rufuspaul]
Anyway, I'm just glad he had the [B]ball[/B] to finally confess.[/quote]


:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:


Jeez you guys are humorless. :facepalm

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green]A good lawyer also gets accurate info from his client so he can give the best advice possible. If Armstrong decides to lie to his lawyer as well then there's nothing anyone can do so this convo is pointless but if the lawyer knows how dirty Armstrong is he isn't letting him lie on the stand. That's not me revising history that's reality...something Armstrong and his defenders have been avoiding for a long time now.[/QUOTE]

The lawyer's job is to provide legal representation in exchange for money, period. He's not going to waste time trying to have a come to Jesus meeting with Armstrong to get him to confess something that makes his case worse and lessens the amount of money that will be lining the attorney's pocket.

As a law school grad I can tell you students are taught to not ask certain questions, because knowing certain damming facts can alter the type of case you can present. Not trying to be a d[COLOR="Black"]ic[/COLOR]k but you are off here.

[QUOTE=rufuspaul]:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:


Jeez you guys are humorless. :facepalm[/QUOTE]

No. We just appreciate originality.

[quote=Balla_Status]No. We just appreciate originality.[/quote]

:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=rufuspaul]:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

lol..you know I'm just giving you s[COLOR="Black"]h[/COLOR]it right?

[quote=Balla_Status]lol..you know I'm just giving you s[COLOR=black]h[/COLOR]it right?[/quote]


:cheers: If I had thin skin I would've retired years ago.

:oldlol: I knew people would try and find a way to excuse Armstrong for all his lies and deception... I knew it..


I saw it coming back when the his buddy (Dont know his name because I dont follow any of these cycling clowns) got busted for doping and mentioned Armstrong's name.

Armstrong has a hissy and everyone came done on the guy for for dropping dime on armstrong...

I said this muthf*cker is guilty as sh*t....

All that self righteous denial? and now it turns out that he was lying the whole time and half the people are trying to find ways to rationalize it. :facepalm

man, this guy should be thrown waaay under the bus for this stunt..

[QUOTE=rufuspaul]:cheers: If I had thin skin I would've retired years ago.[/QUOTE]

Cool. This one and the battleship post were just too easy.

As I said in the other Lance thread, he inspired me in my triathlon training. It sucks knowing he went out like this. I'm not knowledgeable in the "life killing" aspect of his life so I can't comment on that but he does deserve to get sued back by the people he did sue in court.

[QUOTE=daily]You could say he's the perfect storm of cheating.

Smart, clearly very business savvy, obviously athletically fit enough to maximize the effects of doping and a born leader.[/QUOTE]
That's you playing the devil's advocate...


The fact is, you punish the unwanted qualities, and especially you make sure you condemn and punish [U]the epitome[/U] of such unwanted qualities, in the extreme way. That should be the message to society.

What you are simply missing is the case of ethics, and you lag like 3000 years behind the contemporary society. What you basically advocating is the case of [I]arete[/I], instead of the case of being the good person and example to the rest of the people. Meet Socrates, he'd help you a ton.

[QUOTE=kNIOKAS]That's you playing the devil's advocate...


The fact is, you punish the unwanted qualities, and especially you make sure you condemn and punish [U]the epitome[/U] of such unwanted qualities, in the extreme way. That should be the message to society.

What you are simply missing is the case of ethics, and you lag like 3000 years behind the contemporary society. What you basically advocating is the case of [I]arete[/I], instead of the case of being the good person and example to the rest of the people. Meet Socrates, he'd help you a ton.[/QUOTE]:lol I was agreeing with your saying his was the kingpin of the snakes in the snake pit.

Just pointing out how he became the King of Snakes

As for the rest I'm sorry if my not being outraged over the aspects of his cheating bothers you but I'm not.

[QUOTE=Derka]Pathetic reasoning. Jerry Sandusky ran a charity that helped a lot more boys than he was able to get his dick into, and continues to help them. I don't hear anyone giving him a free pass.

Lance Armstrong is a vile human who should be shot at the next sunrise.[/QUOTE]
:roll:

[QUOTE=2LeTTeRS]The lawyer's job is to provide legal representation in exchange for money, period. He's not going to waste time trying to have a come to Jesus meeting with Armstrong to get him to confess something that makes his case worse and lessens the amount of money that will be lining the attorney's pocket.

As a law school grad I can tell you students are taught to not ask certain questions, because knowing certain damming facts can alter the type of case you can present. Not trying to be a d[COLOR="Black"]ic[/COLOR]k but you are off here.[/QUOTE]
So it was a good idea for Armstrong to be lying and perjuring himself left and right? That's nonsense. Neither of us knows what he did or didn't say to his lawyers in confidence and we may never know but the Lawyer's job is to give Armstrong good advice in this case, if Armstrong talked to a lawyer beforehand at all. If you read the link I posted (no degree required) Armstrong wasn't on trial and thus wasn't being represented, he was being interviewed under oath about a case involving the lawyer's client. And this is just one example of this, we have no idea how many different times Armstrong lied to a fed, gave false testimony to cover his ass, misled some investigation or another, slandered a witness to his doping, etc. This is going to lead to all kinds of court battles.

[QUOTE=Derka]Pathetic reasoning. Jerry Sandusky ran a charity that helped a lot more boys than he was able to get his dick into, and continues to help them. I don't hear anyone giving him a free pass.

Lance Armstrong is a vile human who should be shot at the next sunrise.[/QUOTE]

Comparing Lance Armstrong to Sandusky is just terrible. Sandusky is a person who I'd be 100% happy to see the death penalty.