wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

This is nothing new to locker rooms. How many times have we heard about guys competing for most points, rebounds, steals, or fewest turnovers etc. As long as it's not taking away from the team/game it's fine (throwing it up at the end of quarters isn't important, but if they're preserving FG% late in games and passing up the best possible look, that's something else).

[QUOTE=RRR3]LeBron and Wade are winning games, and are the defending champions. Just saying, whatever they are doing is working so idiots need to stop acting like they're hurting their team or some bullshit.[/QUOTE]
last year all they would ever come with was "I dont like lbj and dwade so I am going to whine about something and then say that they dont have what it takes to win for that reason"



this year "I still dont like them so I am still going to whine and be irrational"

newsflash if your stars prioritize efficiency then your team is in good hands

[IMG]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2012/writers/michael_rosenberg/06/22/miami-heat-lebron-james-nba-championship/wade-james-story-getty.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://sciencewitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Dwayne-Wade-Lebron-James.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=VIP2000][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoU6xyXTm9Y"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoU6xyXTm9Y[/URL]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c_d7vBY3zc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c_d7vBY3zc[/URL][/QUOTE]
both videos from before they joined the heat and started acting like puussies :roll:

wade back then was the dude who single handedly won the championship. Bron wasn't the guy who had to join a star stacked team because he couldnt do it himself yet.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]both videos from before they joined the heat and started acting like puussies :roll:

wade back then was the dude who single handedly won the championship. Bron wasn't the guy who had to join a star stacked team because he couldnt do it himself yet.[/QUOTE]
deal with it :oldlol:

Lol players these days are so mentally weak. WTF like who cares about stats. Couldn't imagine a guy like Jordan or Bird saying this shit.

[QUOTE=longtime lurker]Lol players these days are so mentally weak. WTF like who cares about stats. Couldn't imagine a guy like Jordan or Bird saying this shit.[/QUOTE]

Jordan and Bird routinely shot 50% or better in their prime, buddy. Pretty certain they endorse the mentality. :oldlol:

WTF happened to Wade? Dude used to be a stone cold killer. Now all he does is kiss LeBron ass, or defend him every chance he gets.

Through out his career, Wade didn't seem like he was playing to reserve certain stats. He was reckless on the floor but in an effective way.

Now Wade lost that street hunger. :facepalm

stats padding shits, basically both he and lebron admitting to the reason of not shooting last second end of quarter fullcourt chucks to pad their percentages.

[QUOTE=selrahc]if you notice, lebron will never shoot the ball at the end of the first three quarters to save his fg%. he will get the ball and there will be like 2 sec left he will never shoot it. he will just let the time run out because he doesnt want to shoot a low percentage shot, even if there is a chance it could put his team up by more.

if lebron didnt play to save his fg% he would be shooting 45% probably.[/QUOTE]
There have been hundreds of threads on this.

Good thread, [B]from a SMART poster in disguise as a troll.[/B] ... Start posting up to your potential consistently, ph-aggot.

A few comments. This speaks to a change in basketball approach and intelligence from the game's top stars. Not necessarily positive in all cases.

The immediate post MJ generation tried to fill his shoes with volume scoring on worse percentages (Iverson and Kobe) ... it also coincided with the most depressed offensive era. Limited possessions, slower pace, influx of HS players, loss of basketball intelligence, skills and defined offensive roles. The era of the combo guard emerged (Iverson, B Diddy, Francis, Marbury)

Kobe on one hand can be respected for his no phucks given attitude when it comes to shot selection and FGA amount. But it also kills his team at times with loss of possessions on bad shots.

LeBron / Wade's generation emphasis a John Hollinger approach of better efficiency. On the surface, this is awesome. When perimeter players are shooting closer to 50%, that means their averages of PPG are closer to their caliber of scorer. It's ideal.

BUT ... when you're sacrificing game changing shots, however incremental in order to keep a 50% fg percentage, handing the ball off to lesser players (LeBron) to keep your stats clean, or dribbling out shot clocks. You're sacrificing potential game winning shots. I don't appreciate that. There is something seedy about that in which you're undermining true competitive spirit.

The ideal scenario is if you combine the two mentalities of Kobe's generation and LeBron's generation. Maximized individual talent, while getting other's involved, and not sacrificing game altering shots for ideal streamlined percentages.

Basically, be the Jordan / Bird / Magic type. Assert your individual dominance within a championship team framework. Don't be afraid to maximize your individual output, such as by not shooting certain shots, but also don't over due at the expense of loss of possession or alienating teammates "in order to get yours" or "do you" (Kobe mentality)

There is a balance that needs to be met. But it's interesting to think about, and essentially why both generation defining talents (Kobe, LeBron, Wade) have at some point or another turned me off as an individual fan, where it gets me thinking about what their problem is and why I find their either competitiveness or basketball philosophy all kinds of messed up.

Side note, there is clear generational gap and resentment between Kobe and the LeBron / Wade camp. I constantly see subliminal shots at the other over the past 3 - 4 years. And it at times has even gotten physical on the court.

Last game I saw Kobe and Wade getting physical on the block a few times. There is definitely resentment on both sides. This comment is an extension of that beef.

[QUOTE=PJR]Jordan and Bird routinely shot 50% or better in their prime, buddy. Pretty certain they endorse the mentality. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

So you mean to tell me only players that shoot over 50% should be taking shots? This is retarded unless you can show me that Bird and Jordan shot over 50% every game(you can't) your post is pretty much pointless. I'm sure Larry Bird who's a career playoff 47% and Jordan who's a career 48% playoff shooter agree with your dumbass.

[QUOTE=red1]Lebron is a smarter player than kobe. Better player too. No troll[/QUOTE]
When he plays a real defense that knows how to stop him gets exposed. I'll take Kobe vs any defense. 18 ppg vs the ****ing mavericks while a bench player out scores you. Are you kidding me? Better player? At protecting his FG% yes.

[QUOTE=PJR]Jordan and Bird routinely shot 50% or better in their prime, buddy. Pretty certain they endorse the mentality. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Neither shot 50% vs elite defenses.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]When he plays a real defense that knows how to stop him gets exposed. I'll take Kobe vs any defense. 18 ppg vs the ****ing mavericks while a bench player out scores you. Are you kidding me? Better player? At protecting his FG% yes.[/QUOTE]
lbj is clearly better than kobe and it only becomes more obvious as the years go by

[quote]nba is a joke these days. most these clowns rather shoot 50% in a season than tp win a ring.[/quote]
Good try but no, there are 0 players like that, in fact.

In the 80s and 90s, players were conscious of team stats only. And that stat usually was: amount of points scored, the goal being that your team would have more. That is what Larry and Magic were thinking about, whether it meant they put up 40 points or 20.

In the 00s, players were conscious of how many points they were scoring.

And now, players are conscious of their efficiency. I prefer the 80s/90s attitude of wanting to shut down the other team and score however possible, but surely this is an improvement on the "how many points do I have" attitude of the 00s that still drives Kobe (and no one else, it seems).

As for the point someone made about Lebron not throwing up halfcourt shots: I tend to agree with you about that. It does show a bit more of a concern for stats than you want. On the other hand, there is something undignified about a desperate heave. I don't think it's so much protecting his %s as intimidation and posturing. There are certain things Lebron does to set himself above the rest of the league and that's one of them. I don't think it's a bad thing. Of course Magic was never afraid to throw up a halfcourt heave... but different players beat you different ways. The theory of Lebron as stat padder, overall, does not add up. He's sat too many 4th quarters. If he's a rebound or assist shy of a triple double you won't see him trying to force that stat.

New Era Chumps love stats and this is hurting the game. Elite players plays of instincts and feel especially in Basketball when it comes to Scoring. GTFO here with New Era kids being Coached like Bots these days and getting these stat geeks brain washed thinking only efficiency will win you games. :facepalm

Both generational mentalities suck. Kobe and his obsession with comparing himself to the MJ standard, trying to volume score to the tune of 30 ppg (ppg being his focus) on worse percentages and at the expense of his teammates, chemistry, and winning games (wants the appearance of winning, but only on his terms)

And the LeBron / Wade generation playing for EFFICIENCY numbers is just as bad. Passing up shots to lesser players in order to save efficiency stats, but could be game changing shots that provide momentum to wins.

Wade / Durant playing at times for the whistle instead of the bucket.

A player should just go out and BALL and let the PPG / FG% chips fall where they may. Thank god there is still old school cats like Derrick Rose who pop up here and there.

The goal is to lead teams to wins, by ANY means necessary. Just get BUCKETS.

Wow, Wade and LeBron don't take retarded shots on purpose? Who would have thought?

[QUOTE=red1]lbj is clearly better than kobe and it only becomes more obvious as the years go by[/QUOTE]
Yeah

Chris Bosh - 18.5 ppg
Jason Terry - 18.0 ppg
Lebron James - 17.8 ppg

And keep in mind that the Mavs were one of the greatest defensive team of all-time...

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Wow, Wade and LeBron don't take retarded shots on purpose? Who would have thought?[/QUOTE]
They also pass up game changing shots that can bring momentum to wins in order to protect their FG%

Just as bad as Kobe or Iverson gunning for selfish 30 ppg numbers. The numbers is the focus, and not the wins.

Get Wade and Bron's ====D out your mouth, and look at the root of each player / generational philosophy and see that it's the same thing.

[QUOTE=DMV2]WTF happened to Wade? Dude used to be a stone cold killer. Now all he does is kiss LeBron ass, or defend him every chance he gets.

Through out his career, Wade didn't seem like he was playing to reserve certain stats. He was reckless on the floor but in an effective way.

Now Wade lost that street hunger. :facepalm[/QUOTE]

he learned to adapt

young wade's recklessness worked because of young wade's athleticism.

he doesnt have that same explosiveness, and hes changed his game/mentality accordingly

[QUOTE=selrahc]if you notice, lebron will never shoot the ball at the end of the first three quarters to save his fg%. he will get the ball and there will be like 2 sec left he will never shoot it. he will just let the time run out because he doesnt want to shoot a low percentage shot, even if there is a chance it could put his team up by more.

if lebron didnt play to save his fg% he would be shooting 45% probably.[/QUOTE]
Your one dumb m0ther fuker

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Yeah

Chris Bosh - 18.5 ppg
Jason Terry - 18.0 ppg
Lebron James - 17.8 ppg

And keep in mind that the Mavs were one of the greatest defensive team of all-time...[/QUOTE]
deep down you know it's true :pimp:

[QUOTE=DMV2]WTF happened to Wade? Dude used to be a stone cold killer. Now all he does is kiss LeBron ass, or defend him every chance he gets.

Through out his career, Wade didn't seem like he was playing to reserve certain stats. He was reckless on the floor but in an effective way.

Now Wade lost that street hunger. :facepalm[/QUOTE]

when did he ever have street hunger? he wears the gayest metro shit .... he dont look like rocky balboa to me

[QUOTE=red1]deep down you know it's true :pimp:[/QUOTE]
Deep down I know that when teams don't allow Lebron to have easy dunks/layups he will get exposed. We have already witnessed that a couple of times.

Wade is a team player. He sacrificed his own individual game (even with some injuries and regression) in order to pump Bron up, establish harmonious team hierarchy and allow the Heat to win well into the next few years.

Maybe Wade realized the problem was mentality from Bron and how soft he was mentally and emotionally when in the 2011 Finals he couldn't take Wade getting the shine over him on his own team.

Either way, he's still got ability, even given regression. Yes he plays like a punk ass for the foul instead of the basket now, and yes the clothes and hoe like attitude since Bron came to town have been off putting. But I will be damned if people don't show this all-time great the level of respect he deserves. What he did for Miami last year and this year is going criminally unnoticed. And Bron refuses to even acknowledge it, the way at least MJ in the 2nd three peat gave Pip props.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Deep down I know that when teams don't allow Lebron to have easy dunks/layups he will get exposed. We have already witnessed that a couple of times.[/QUOTE]
denial is a muhf*cka. dont resist just accept the truth :pimp:

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Deep down I know that when teams don't allow Lebron to have easy dunks/layups he will get exposed. We have already witnessed that a couple of times.[/QUOTE]
Are we still pretending that LeBron can't shoot? Really? Pretty pathetic.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Deep down I know that when teams don't allow Lebron to have easy dunks/layups he will get exposed. We have already witnessed that a couple of times.[/QUOTE]
The pain runs deep in this loser :roll:

[QUOTE=DMV2]WTF happened to Wade? Dude used to be a stone cold killer. Now all he does is kiss LeBron ass, or defend him every chance he gets.

Through out his career, Wade didn't seem like he was playing to reserve certain stats. He was reckless on the floor but in an effective way.

Now Wade lost that street hunger. :facepalm[/QUOTE]

Street hunger Wade circa 2005: A simple hoodie, no HGH jaw - 0 rings, very ring hungry and competitive, still has heart
[IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1007/rare.chris.bosh.photos/images/wilson-erving-wade-bosh.jpg[/IMG]


Sellout washed up Wade present day: 2 rings, carried by refs one year Lebron another after he convinced his competition to join him so both rings were "given" not earned, years of HGH built up bone and tissue in his jaw and he's so heavy (235lbs... 7 footer David Robinson's former playing weight) it's now actually robbing him of health, flexibility and athleticism. Since his old opponents joined him and since rings are "given" now a days he simply doesn't have to work as hard anymore. His style went from simple hoodies to glasses w/o lenses and pink pants
[IMG]http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4fcf701a6bb3f72860000000/dwyane-wade.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://rollingout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/nba_g_wade_b1_400.jpeg[/IMG]

It's time for this guy to retire.

[QUOTE=Money 23]They also pass up game changing shots that can bring momentum to wins in order to protect their FG%[/QUOTE]

real ass post. That's what stopped Lebron against the mavs and against the celtics. Fear.

[QUOTE]
Street hunger Wade circa 2005: A simple hoodie, no HGH jaw - 0 rings, very ring hungry and competitive, still has heart
[/QUOTE]

I can't believe wade use to look like that. reminds me of my young cousin. ain't no trace of chitown left in that guy. :facepalm

[QUOTE=STATUTORY][URL="http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/basketball/miami-heats-james-and-wade-play-the-percentages/nT2sZ/"]http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/basketball/miami-heats-james-and-wade-play-the-percentages/nT2sZ/[/URL]

Can you imagine an AI or Kobe saying that in the early 2000s before the Hollingerfication of the sport?

This is why we need to look at these .500% fg season stats with suspicion. Players are consciously modifying their game to achieve these stats, perhaps to the detriment of the team, because that's the purvey by which players are judged now.

it highlights a difference in perspective between the old school and new school players. Back in the early 2000s in the most offensively depressed era in all of NBA, it was just about being able to put up points and that's the lingering sentiment of a player like Kobe which is almost quaint in the efficiency obsessed era of today.

If kobe entered the league in 2006 I have no doubt he would be a .500+ scorer as well because his mentality would be completely different.[/QUOTE]

why deal with hypotheticals? There is no way of knowing. The only reason anyone would create a hypothetical situation to put a player in would be to escape the current reality

Kobe is not an efficient player. Reality.

Kobe is a high volume scorer. Reality.

Kobe shooting 50%? Keep dreaming.

I'm sorry but efficiency didn't ALL OF A SUDDEN matter in the NBA, it has always mattered. I don't need Hollinger to come up with the above conclusions. You take a lot of bad shots, that makes you INEFFICIENT. PERIOD.

[QUOTE=VIP2000][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoU6xyXTm9Y"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoU6xyXTm9Y[/URL]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c_d7vBY3zc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c_d7vBY3zc[/URL][/QUOTE]

It's impossible............... to get that shot off..........:oldlol:

[QUOTE=STATUTORY][URL="http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/basketball/miami-heats-james-and-wade-play-the-percentages/nT2sZ/"]http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/basketball/miami-heats-james-and-wade-play-the-percentages/nT2sZ/[/URL]

Can you imagine an AI or Kobe saying that in the early 2000s before the Hollingerfication of the sport?

This is why we need to look at these .500% fg season stats with suspicion. Players are consciously modifying their game to achieve these stats, perhaps to the detriment of the team, because that's the purvey by which players are judged now.

it highlights a difference in perspective between the old school and new school players. Back in the early 2000s in the most offensively depressed era in all of NBA, it was just about being able to put up points and that's the lingering sentiment of a player like Kobe which is almost quaint in the efficiency obsessed era of today.

If kobe entered the league in 2006 I have no doubt he would be a .500+ scorer as well because his mentality would be completely different.[/QUOTE]

LOL.

Okay...well then wow, if Jordan entered in 2006 and had that mentality he could have put up a 65 FG% !

...as well as Penny, Grant Hill, Bird, Magic, Jerry West, etc

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Deep down I know that when teams don't allow Lebron to have easy dunks/layups he will get exposed. We have already witnessed that a couple of times.[/QUOTE]

:coleman:

[QUOTE=Burgz V2]why deal with hypotheticals? There is no way of knowing. The only reason anyone would create a hypothetical situation to put a player in would be to escape the current reality

Kobe is not an efficient player. Reality.

Kobe is a high volume scorer. Reality.

Kobe shooting 50%? Keep dreaming.

I'm sorry but efficiency didn't ALL OF A SUDDEN matter in the NBA, it has always mattered. I don't need Hollinger to come up with the above conclusions. You take a lot of bad shots, that makes you INEFFICIENT. PERIOD.[/QUOTE]
Jordan's TS% is 1.4 higher than Kobe's. Jordan's PPS is 0.015 higher than Kobe's.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Jordan's TS% is 1.4 higher than Kobe's. Jordan's PPS is 0.015 higher than Kobe's.[/QUOTE]

What about his FG/eFG% and Player Efficiency Rating?

Insecure Kobe homers hating what a surprise :lol Yes LeBron and Wade are sacrificing games because they wanna be efficient:lol They're not both champions and all time greats or anything.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]What about his FG/eFG% and Player Efficiency Rating?[/QUOTE]


Michael Jordan [B]FG% 49.7%[/B] [B] eFG% 51%[/B] [B] PER: 28[/B]

Kobe Bryant [B]FG% 45.5%[/B] [B] eFG% 49%[/B] [B]PER: 24[/B]


Those are Kobe's FG% eFG% & PER when compared to the best basketball player of all time.

Not bad at all :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]What about his FG/eFG% and Player Efficiency Rating?[/QUOTE]
2.2 eFG% difference.