Dark Horse to Win the East....TORONTO

[QUOTE=Skywalker]wtf?

?[/QUOTE]
Ok buddy. Care to explain who you think are playoff Vets on the nets and the pacers other than Kidd, Cliff Robinson, and Darrell Armstrong.

As a Raptor fan and follower I would say they would be a very dark horse to win the east. Without any playoff experience together I can't see the Raptors making it past the first round. It will be just great for them to make the playoffs and get some experience. If they could get a win or two in the playoffs that would be good.

Let's not get to ahead of ourselves. They have not won many games against solid teams this year. Some of the teams that they beat that could be considered solid teams had injuries.

Yes they have what I believe to be on of the best if not best PG combinations in the NBA and one of the best GMs. They have an unselfish rising star(s) and team. They have done better so far than most critics and publications predicted. It will be nice if they make the playoffs and prove all of them wrong. Only 2 wins away from last year's total; great.

I will take the long-term view. They certainly could very well challange for the East a couple of seasons from now. Bargnani, Bosh and Ford in a season or two could be a scary 3 to play against.

Like I said, the only 2 teams that I see the Raptors being a likely loss to in the east are Miami and Detroit. They most likely won't see Detroit in the first round unless Toronto falls out of the Atlantic division lead.. and i'm not sure about miami. They're kind of floating around in the bottom of the standings.

[QUOTE=Cannonball]you think the raps can take the cavs in 7? LOL noway lebron>bosh

Even tho I love bosh.[/QUOTE]

Last I checked this is a team game.

Lebron may well be perceived to be better than Bosh. Regardless there are 4 other starters and also the bench. The Raptors it could be argued have the better bench than the Cavs. They certainly have way better PGs.

The Cavs have got worse as the season has gone on and the Raptors have got better as a team as the season has gone on.

So it may not be a huge stretch to think the Raptors could beat the Cavs in 7. Anything is possible.

[QUOTE]Ok buddy. Care to explain who you think are playoff Vets on the nets and the pacers other than Kidd, Cliff Robinson, and Darrell Armstrong.[/QUOTE]

Jermaine O'Neal. And my "wtf?" comment wasn't about you thinking there weren't many playoff vets on either team, it was about you out of no where saying "CB4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robinson". Thanks man, I wasn't sure who was better.

[QUOTE=Skywalker]Jermaine O'Neal. And my "wtf?" comment wasn't about you thinking there weren't many playoff vets on either team, it was about you out of no where saying "CB4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robinson". Thanks man, I wasn't sure who was better.[/QUOTE]

So tell me. What's the farthest Jermaine O'neal has ever gotten in the playoffs (as the best player on the team)and how far has he carried his team before?? In addition to that, the current team that they have is loaded with young players and new additions.

So therefore, the east is STILL a total tossup.

[QUOTE=Skywalker]you shouldn't make threads like these man, it generates hate for the Raps

watch, next post will be hate[/QUOTE]

You gotta win something before you can be hated on :lol:

[QUOTE=haterofhaters]So tell me. What's the farthest Jermaine O'neal has ever gotten in the playoffs (as the best player on the team)and how far has he carried his team before?? In addition to that, the current team that they have is loaded with young players and new additions.

So therefore, the east is STILL a total tossup.[/QUOTE]
well the got to the east finals with him starting.
and jeff foster as a starter and al harington as the 6th man...doh

SO there you go. 2/5ths of a starting lineup that played in the conference finals againt the eventual champs. Very entertaining and close series as well.

Not that I disagree that the east is pretty wide open. I just dont think the raps can get it done this year.

[QUOTE=boozehound]well the got to the east finals with him starting.
and jeff foster as a starter and al harington as the 6th man...doh

SO there you go. 2/5ths of a starting lineup that played in the conference finals againt the eventual champs. Very entertaining and close series as well.

Not that I disagree that the east is pretty wide open. I just dont think the raps can get it done this year.[/QUOTE]

I'm not gonna sit here and say I think the Raps will win a championship, or even an EC finals appearance, but what I am saying is that they can definitely take anyone in the first and possible even the second round.

[QUOTE=haterofhaters]I'm not gonna sit here and say I think the Raps will win a championship, or even an EC finals appearance, but what I am saying is that they can definitely take anyone in the first and possible even the second round.[/QUOTE]

oh please sit here and say the Raps will win a title so we can all laugh at you.

The Raptors are YEARS away from winning a title, IF EVER.

Bosh is a nice player, but I dont look at him as a player that can win championships for a franchise, sorry.

[QUOTE]You gotta win something before you can be hated on [/QUOTE]

K won't hate on the Mavs then.

[QUOTE]The Raptors are YEARS away from winning a title, IF EVER.

Bosh is a nice player, but I dont look at him as a player that can win championships for a franchise, sorry.[/QUOTE]

did you not just say you have to win something to be hated on? now you're hating.

clown

[B]Little known facts: [/B]

- the Raptors have the 2nd fewest loses to eastern conference teams in the East
- the Raptors have essentially the 3rd best record against the East.
- the Raptors have played less games against the East then any other team in the East.

Now there is no way they beat the Pistons and Heat because of many reasons. I don't think they could beat the Bulls because of matchup reasons.

Other then that, I wouldn't bet against them. They handled the Wizards twice (leading by as many as 20 in both games). They controlled both games against the Cavaliers, and Cleveland has only gotten worse. They **** kicked the Magic, and the Magic suck even worse now. The only team that really beat them good were the Pacers, who they are 1-1 with.

[B]Some other things to consider:[/B] Bosh's averages 30+ points per game against Rasheed Wallace and 25+ against Webber, both loses to the Bulls were by 1-4 points and the Heat are 1 Shaq or Wade inury away from being an easy playoff win.

[QUOTE=Skywalker]K won't hate on the Mavs then.



did you not just say you have to win something to be hated on? now you're hating.

clown[/QUOTE]


No thats called facts, not hating

clown.

I like Chris Bosh since hes from my part of the world, but hes just a nice player. He will never be as good as KG and look where thats gotten the TWolves.

[QUOTE=A Roc 23][B]Little known facts: [/B]

- the Raptors have the 2nd fewest loses to eastern conference teams in the East
- the Raptors have essentially the 3rd best record against the East.
- the Raptors have played less games against the East then any other team in the East.

Now there is no way they beat the Pistons and Heat because of many reasons. I don't think they could beat the Bulls because of matchup reasons.

Other then that, I wouldn't bet against them. They handled the Wizards twice (leading by as many as 20 in both games). They controlled both games against the Cavaliers, and Cleveland has only gotten worse. They **** kicked the Magic, and the Magic suck even worse now. The only team that really beat them good were the Pacers, who they are 1-1 with.

[B]Some other things to consider:[/B] Bosh's averages 30+ points per game against Rasheed Wallace and 25+ against Webber, both loses to the Bulls were by 1-4 points and the Heat are 1 Shaq or Wade inury away from being an easy playoff win.[/QUOTE]

Thank you!! exactly.

[QUOTE]He will never be as good as KG and look where thats gotten the TWolves.[/QUOTE]

Bryan Colangelo or Kevin McHale, who do you pick?

Tomorrow, Raptors vs. Pistons and Pistons with Home Court?

Pistons in 5 or 6 max. Seriously, that's not even close. Throw out numbers, whatever, a young team like that, in Detroit, they'll get grinded and spit out.

[QUOTE=niko]Tomorrow, Raptors vs. Pistons and Pistons with Home Court?

Pistons in 5 or 6 max. Seriously, that's not even close. Throw out numbers, whatever, a young team like that, in Detroit, they'll get grinded and spit out.[/QUOTE]

everyone is in agreement that Detroit and Miami would handle Toronto. the disagreement comes with people saying that teams like Indy, Washington, Cleveland and NJ would like beat Toronto in a first round series.

[QUOTE=Howard5Dirk41]oh please sit here and say the Raps will win a title so we can all laugh at you.

The Raptors are YEARS away from winning a title, IF EVER.

Bosh is a nice player, but I dont look at him as a player that can win championships for a franchise, sorry.[/QUOTE]

Thats taking it a bit far, Its a little arrogant for you to say any team can or cannot win a title in the future.

For the record " A darkhorse team is one who isnt expected to win but comes from no-where to win". T.O. definitely will have come from no where. Winning...thats another thing, but in the East anything is possible and I don't think Toronto is finished improving this season.

Toronto fans should just be proud that they can go to their team's games and know they can compete and win games. Where before that was never an option. Winning it all or even coming close to winning the east is the last thing that should be on their minds.

So rapswin you are still saying that the Raptors are not guaranteed to win the east just that they are the dark horse. Like everyone else has argued, the Pistons are still the odds-on favourite to win.

Biased

[QUOTE=A Roc 23][B]Little known facts: [/B]

- the Raptors have the 2nd fewest loses to eastern conference teams in the East
- the Raptors have essentially the 3rd best record against the East.
- the Raptors have played less games against the East then any other team in the East.

Now there is no way they beat the Pistons and Heat because of many reasons. I don't think they could beat the Bulls because of matchup reasons.

Other then that, I wouldn't bet against them. They handled the Wizards twice (leading by as many as 20 in both games). They controlled both games against the Cavaliers, and Cleveland has only gotten worse. They **** kicked the Magic, and the Magic suck even worse now. The only team that really beat them good were the Pacers, who they are 1-1 with.

[B]Some other things to consider:[/B] Bosh's averages 30+ points per game against Rasheed Wallace and 25+ against Webber, both loses to the Bulls were by 1-4 points and the Heat are 1 Shaq or Wade inury away from being an easy playoff win.[/QUOTE]

Someone who sees the East for what it is....Up for grabs.:applause:

[QUOTE=bigdog13]So rapswin you are still saying that the Raptors are not guaranteed to win the east just that they are the dark horse. Like everyone else has argued, the Pistons are still the odds-on favourite to win.[/QUOTE]

Whats your point.

Thread turned out how i predicted. Bunch of Raps fans.

[QUOTE=RAPSCANWIN]Whats your point.[/QUOTE]

He doesnt have one.

I've finally come to terms with the fact Toronto will most likely win the division, but I see no way the Raps could win the East.

The main reasons: Detroit and Miami.

Come playoff time, these two teams will be poised to make a run for the finals, and both will have enough confidence in themselves to think they can win it all.

I also don't see Toronto beating Cleveland since Cleveland is arguably the better team, but also because of the treatment LBJ will receive from the refs.

Chicago would be a tough test, but I'm not that intimidated by them if I'm Toronto. Chicago still needs to address their lack of an interior scorer and they are also a young fairly inexperienced team. BUT.. given the experience Chicago gained the last two years and Ben Wallace I give them the edge.

Toronto as the 4 seed would most likely have to play Cleveland or Chicago in the 1st round, which again will not be easy, and then the top seed (most likely Detroit. In the ECF finals they would face either Miami, or whatever team was playing well enough to the get there.

Toronto needs to a. make the postseason b. peak at the right time and c. face teams who are not playing their best to make the Finals.

Out of the 8 teams that make the playoffs in the East I would put them in the following order of most likely making the Finals

Detroit 30%
Miami 30%
Chicago 10%
Cleveland 10%
Washington 5%
Toronto 5%
Indiana 5%
Orlando 5%

Rough estimate obviously, but gives an idea of the favorites.

If the Raps face Cleveland in the first round, then I think that they would be able to beat them. They won't be able to beat Miami, Detroit or Chicago (based on match up problems) in a series. Any other team is a toss-up. I'm am by no means saying that they will be able to win the East. Detroit or Miami will win the East but other then those two teams anything can happen.

[QUOTE=Howard5Dirk41]Bosh is a nice player, but I dont look at him as a player that can win championships for a franchise, sorry.[/QUOTE]

[U]NBA rings:[/U] [B] Nowitzki = 0, Bosh = 0.[/B] :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Howard5Dirk41]I like Chris Bosh since hes from my part of the world, but hes just a nice player. He will never be as good as KG and look where thats gotten the TWolves[/QUOTE]

There's a good reason why KG hasn't won anything. His name is McHale. :rollingeyes:

[QUOTE=power works][U]NBA rings:[/U] [B] Nowitzki = 0, Bosh = 0.[/B] :confusedshrug:
[/QUOTE]

[B]Number of times being in the finals and shooting at least 40% overall:[/B]

Nowitzki = 0 Bosh = 0

[B]Number of major choke jobs?

Nowitzki = 1 Bosh = 0.[/B]

This could get ugly.

If threadstarter means Raptors making it to the finals...please stop it with the homerism. We're 2 games over 500, get a reality check. The intensity in the playoffs is much harder than regular season games.

Lets focus on making the playoffs before we talk about the finals.

Chris Bosh is a nice player, but not a franchise player, all the Raptor fans on here try to fool us into thinking he is, well hes a reality check, hes not!

[QUOTE=GoRapz]If threadstarter means Raptors making it to the finals...please stop it with the homerism. We're 2 games over 500, get a reality check. The intensity in the playoffs is much harder than regular season games.

Lets focus on making the playoffs before we talk about the finals.[/QUOTE]

One of two sensible Raps fans. Kudos for you.

[QUOTE=Howard5Dirk41]Chris Bosh is a nice player, but not a franchise player, all the Raptor fans on here try to fool us into thinking he is, well hes a reality check, hes not![/QUOTE]


what makes him NOT a franchise player? im just curious... you obviously have some reasoning behind this, you're not just talking out of your @ss right?

how many non-franchise players have been on the allstar team twice before they turned 23? just curious...

this explanation better be good...

[QUOTE=DoubleTech]what makes him NOT a franchise player? im just curious... you obviously have some reasoning behind this, you're not just talking out of your @ss right?

how many non-franchise players have been on the allstar team twice before they turned 23? just curious...

this explanation better be good...[/QUOTE]

Bosh is a franchise player. There is no argument there. he is talking out of his a$$
Back to the thread a DARKHORSE usually means having the least shot or most unlikely to do it BUT MIGHT. They fit that category, but in the east they are better than a darkhorse. Although lack of playoff experience may hurt them if they played Det or Miami first round.

[QUOTE=knickscity]One of two sensible Raps fans. Kudos for you.[/QUOTE]

Whos the other sensible Raps fan? Because there are a lot more then two.

[QUOTE=knickscity]One of two sensible Raps fans. Kudos for you.[/QUOTE]
Actually there are many sensible Raptors' fans, but then there are alot of Raptors' fans who are homers and can't see their player get hated on, fairly or unfairly, and blow everything out of proportion...

[QUOTE=brwnman]Actually there are many sensible Raptors' fans, but then there are alot of Raptors' fans who are homers and can't see their player get hated on, fairly or unfairly, and blow everything out of proportion...[/QUOTE]
Maybe...

[QUOTE=knickscity]Maybe...[/QUOTE]

nope, it's a fact...

[QUOTE=brwnman]nope, it's a fact...[/QUOTE]
I'm not going there with you. The Raps are better than a dark horse. Anyone catching fire can come out of the east.

[QUOTE=knickscity]I'm not going there with you. The Raps are better than a dark horse. Anyone catching fire can come out of the east.[/QUOTE]

I am not really sure what you mean, but I don't think there is any chance that the Raptors win the east, not this year...