Now that Kobe has decided to be a facilitator, is he better at it than Lebron James?

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]:facepalm I'm [I]not bashing Lebron at all[/I], Lebron for his [I]career[/I] has been a facilitator unlike Kobe who has always been a shoot first pass second player. It's just how he is, Kobe would rather score than pass, and Lebron is hardwired a little different he likes to pass first score second. Now, Kobe seems to have changed gears the past few games, perhaps only even temporarily I don't know, all I'm doing is comparing this current "facilitator" version of Kobe to Lebron's facilitating abilities and Lebron fans are having an absolute shit fit. I'm not bashing Lebron, but right now his stan-base is acting like a bunch of overly sensitive idiots and exposing themselves. If you look a these two objectivey, this should be considered a worthy discussion. But I guess everyone's stan goggles are permanetly glued to their face.[/QUOTE]

So you're saying that LBJ is naturally the better basketball player, IQ wise, team ball wise, and fundamentally???

[QUOTE=Kingwillball]Kobe fans need to accept that No matter WHAT he Does he is not and will not be better than Lebron. Lebron is the better team Player, All around Player and if they Played One on One Lebron would Destroy Kobe as well.[/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE=Mr. Jabbar]:roll:[/QUOTE]


Truth Hurts Brah.. BTW U are the Biggest Kobe Stan and Blind Idiot on ISH.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]No offense since you're a solid poster IMO, but this is a stupid question. You pointed it out yourself, it's only 3 games. I pointed out that MJ had a 24 game stretch where he averaged 29.3ppg, 8.9rpg, 10.6 apg including recording 10 triple doubles in 11 games, with 7 consecutive. If ISH existed then and I asked 'Is MJ now a better facilitator than Magic?', I would expect to be laughed off the damn internet and with good reason.

Let's be real.[/QUOTE]

No, comparing MJ to Magic is not a valid comparison it's a strawman argument to make my discussion topic look bad but it's a horrible analogy because MJ even in his stretch wasn't even reaching the same assist counts as Magic where as Kobe the past three games is averaging almost double the assists per game as Lebron - he's averaging THIRTEEN assists a game. Small window obviously, but it's the window I'm asking people to talk about - and people are getting offended. Maybe the window is too small for a valid discussion, but jesus people need to stop acting like it's offensive to bring such topics up.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]No, comparing MJ to Magic is not a valid comparison it's a strawman argument because MJ even in his stretch wasn't even reaching the assist volumes as Magic. I specifically am referring to this stretch, and I'm not calling into question Lebron's career impact of facilitating. Kobe the past three games is averaging almost double the assists per game as Lebron - he's averaging 12 assists a game. Small window, but it's the window I'm asking people to talk about.[/QUOTE]

Well to answer your question. Kobe a way better facilitator because him having elite shooting and post game makes him the ultimate pick your poison machine, unlike brozy whos a one trick pony, hes either driving and dishing or clanking a brick.

[QUOTE=tikay0]Who was that big, 7'2 monster of a man that was playing along side Kobe, when he was going off?

Who were that pathetic bunch of scrubs that were playing along side LBJ, when he faced the Spurs?[/QUOTE]

Again I love how all of a sudden LeBron's teammates in Cleveland have turned in to scrubs.

If we can only pull up the old posts from 07-10 and we can see how everybody loved talking about how that Cavs team was deep.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]No, comparing MJ to Magic is not a valid comparison it's a strawman argument to make my discussion topic look bad but it's a horrible analogy because MJ even in his stretch wasn't even reaching the same assist counts as Magic where as Kobe the past three games is averaging almost double the assists per game as Lebron - he's averaging THIRTEEN assists a game. Small window obviously, but it's the window I'm asking people to talk about - and people are getting offended. Maybe the window is too small for a valid discussion, but jesus people need to stop acting like it's offensive to bring such topics up.[/QUOTE]


OK, here is the Honest Answer. Kobe is a Good Passer and like most of the Greats has a good feel for the game. He has always been a Scorer and because of that almost pigeonholed himself as just that over the years. The Team Suffered because of it and he probably decided to try to take a Page out of Lebrons book knowing He has Talent around him that as being underused. The old adage if U cant beat em than join em. Now Defenses are So used to Kobe looking to shoot First they are Accustomed to playing him a certain way and there is always a 2nd and even 3rd Defender looking to close on him. Kobe is just making the SMART basketball play finding Wide open teammate who are finishing much Better since they now feel like they are being involved alot more. Now if this keeps Up Defenses will play Kobe different and he will have more one on one opportunities. At that point the Assists will be harder to get and he will probably go back to what he knows best which is shooting the basketball.

How is it worth discussing CavaliersFTW? The correct answer is no, these 3 games is a result of simply one extreme change of mindset (for Kobe its very extreme), its not like Kobes passing skills & vision all of the sudden catapulted... assists is not how you evaluate passing skills, vision or facilitating or whatever you want to call it... even in the assists category (or any category) Lebron is a much better passer... infact, the best non-PG facilitator i ever seen next to Larry Bird (excluding those first 3-4 years Magic played SG/SF)....

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]No, comparing MJ to Magic is not a valid comparison it's a strawman argument to make my discussion topic look bad but it's a horrible analogy because MJ even in his stretch wasn't even reaching the same assist counts as Magic where as Kobe the past three games is averaging almost double the assists per game as Lebron - he's averaging THIRTEEN assists a game. Small window obviously, but it's the window I'm asking people to talk about - and people are getting offended. Maybe the window is too small for a valid discussion, but jesus people need to stop acting like it's offensive to bring such topics up.[/QUOTE]

Ok, here's a few small windows from the '09-'10 season alone (where Lebron averaged 8.6 APG, a # Kobe couldn't reach in his dreams):

(11/28/09-12/6/10): 12, 10, 11, 10
Average of 10.75 APG

(1/27/10-2/2/10): 11, 13, 11, 15
Average of 12.5 APG

(2/9/10-2/13/10): 11, 13, 15
Average of 13 APG (*Scored 32 2x, 43/13Rbs/15 Asts trip
double during stretch)

So the answer to the ridiculous question in the OP is a resounding NO. All people with basic sense already knew that though.

/Thread.

[QUOTE=tikay0][IMG]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/526296_379611362110305_980374032_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
bahahaha lebron will never b goat :bowdown:

kobe was picked 13th out of draft 2-3yrs of career = bench player, and surpassed all expectations

lebron out of draft instantly = The Godly Cleveland Cavaliers Savior :bowdown: = meaning he runs the show. Failed to win a chip and left to join 2 allstars to and failed again his first year.

**** up stan

[QUOTE=imdaman99]pretty sure if lebron ever played with shaq and won 3 titles, he would have 0 finals mvps as well.

shaq dominated the east in the finals, mj couldn't have even stole finals MVPs from shaq.

i dont get how that is some sort of insult to kobe :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Then by your line of thinking. Kobe would have 0 rings by age 27, if he never played with Shaq. Goes both ways.

[img]http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Untitled-2-2.png[/img]



...im sure he would got even more assists during that span if he didnt average 31.7 ppg (and higher average than 8.6 for the entire season, highest by any non-PG in NBA history)....

If he wanted to. two more assist and he averages 7, were talking about Lebron here Not Magic

[QUOTE=G-Funk]If he wanted to. two more assist and he averages 7, were talking about Lebron here Not Magic[/QUOTE]

Only if he took down his FGA/PPG dramatically... he cant do that routinely while still dropping ~30 PPG for the entire season... for Lebron ~7 apg is a minimum no matter how many offensive possessions are "wasted" on scoring instead, he doesnt even try hard there... he could easily average 10 apg if he wanted to (or lead the league in PPG)... he just does whatever it takes for his team to win...

[QUOTE=pauk]

...[b]im sure he would got even more assists during that span if he didnt average 31.7 ppg [/b](and higher average than 8.6 for the entire season, highest by any non-PG in NBA history)....[/QUOTE]
But hes a stat patter, would rather let Wade & Bosh average 20 And 17 than to score less

Not yet, but I love Kobe stans praising how he's playing (as their winning) when just prior to that they said he was playing perfectly and didn't need to change his approach (selfish, losing, etc)

He needed to play like this all season given the components on the roster, the types of players and weapons he had at his disposal. If he played like this the whole season, the objective Kobe fans like myself, would be rewarded with actual MVP caliber play and a winning ball club.

He's not as great a facilitator as James, but Kobe's best seasons from a winning and team perspective, he wasn't trying to gun for a scoring title. 2001, and 2008 being the ideal way I think he should've played his entire career.

[QUOTE=pauk]Only if he took down his FGA/PPG dramatically... he cant do that routinely while still dropping ~30 PPG...[/QUOTE]
Is he not averaging 29/5/5? Has he not averaged 30 and 6 in the triangle?

[QUOTE=tikay0]As a Bulls fan. I should never ever be propping up LBJ like this, but the [B]Kobe slurping has gotten to all time levels.
[/B]
I give it up to you Heat fans. You guys have been surprisingly cordial lately.

I haven't seen a LBJ thread in weeks.[/QUOTE]
Its not even bad considering the amount of hate he was getting before even when he was being really efficient. The Lebron dick riding has been way over the top this year people acting like he's a god with no flaws you can't say anything negative about him. Its a joke

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Ok, here's a few small windows from the '09-'10 season alone (where Lebron averaged 8.6 APG, a # Kobe couldn't reach in his dreams):

(11/28/09-12/6/10): 12, 10, 11, 10
Average of 10.75 APG

(1/27/10-2/2/10): 11, 13, 11, 15
Average of 12.5 APG

(2/9/10-2/13/10): 11, 13, 15
Average of 13 APG (*Scored 32 2x, 43/13Rbs/15 Asts trip
double during stretch)

So the answer to the ridiculous question in the OP is a resounding NO. All people with basic sense already knew that though.

/Thread.[/QUOTE]

Kobe the past three games is averaging 13 assists a game, so this 3 game stretch peak at the moment is actually equal to Lebron's highest peak that season - this makes the comparison all the more worthy does it not? Kobe's 3 game stretch peak when he wants to be the facilitator is equal to Lebron during Lebron's best passing season? As a fan who "stans" neither one of these guys the comparison seems a lot more worthy to me than some of you guys are acting, some of you guys are acting like it's sacreligious to point this out. 39 assists in 3 games is damn impressive, Lebron in his best passing season only did it once. And you guys are straight up trying to belittle me for bringing it up as a discussion - just sayin

If Kobe Bryant wanted to he could lead the league in assists, but that's not his job here.

[QUOTE=longtime lurker]If Kobe Bryant wanted to he could lead the league in assists, but that's not his job here.[/QUOTE]

Playing with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol.... his assists [I]should[/I] be through the roof... It would be a joke if they're not... Most stacked team in the league, certainly the most expensive.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]No, comparing MJ to Magic is not a valid comparison it's a strawman argument to make my discussion topic look bad but it's a horrible analogy because MJ even in his stretch wasn't even reaching the same assist counts as Magic where as Kobe the past three games is averaging almost double the assists per game as Lebron - he's averaging THIRTEEN assists a game. Small window obviously, but it's the window I'm asking people to talk about - and people are getting offended. [B]Maybe the window is too small for a valid discussion[/B], but jesus people need to stop acting like it's offensive to bring such topics up.[/QUOTE]
How is that even debatable? No shit 3 games is to small of a window with someone of a sane mind to think kobe is on lebron's level of facilitating

Lebron does it while scoring 26+ per game and rebounding.

[QUOTE=tikay0][IMG]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/526296_379611362110305_980374032_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
it's not how u start. it's how u finish

compare Lebron's stats from age 30-34 to Kobe's from 30-34 and it will be telling.

[QUOTE=SCdac]Playing with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol.... his assists [I]should[/I] be through the roof... It would be a joke if they're not... [B]Most stacked team in the league[/B], certainly the most expensive.[/QUOTE]

You obviously haven't seen the Lakers play this year have you

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Ok, here's a few small windows from the '09-'10 season alone (where Lebron averaged 8.6 APG, a # Kobe couldn't reach in his dreams):

(11/28/09-12/6/10): 12, 10, 11, 10
Average of 10.75 APG

(1/27/10-2/2/10): 11, 13, 11, 15
Average of 12.5 APG

(2/9/10-2/13/10): 11, 13, 15
Average of 13 APG (*Scored 32 2x, 43/13Rbs/15 Asts trip
double during stretch)

So the answer to the ridiculous question in the OP is a resounding NO. All people with basic sense already knew that though.

/Thread.[/QUOTE]
while turning his playmates into spot up role players? Lebron is notorious for brining players stats down.

[QUOTE=longtime lurker]If Kobe Bryant wanted to he could lead the league in assists, but that's not his job here.[/QUOTE]
If LeBron wanted to he could lead the league in scoring, but that's not his job here.

Afterall, he's actually proven that ... he has just 1 less scoring title than Kobe, and has 2x 30 ppg to Kobe's 3x 30 ppg seasons.

He also won his scoring title in a more balanced officiated year (2008) compared to the league adjustment years of 2006 and 2007.

Where as Kobe's never even finished top five in assists per game. But sure, we'll take your word for it.

[QUOTE=G-Funk]while turning his playmates into spot up role players? Lebron is notorious for brining players stats down.[/QUOTE]
and ruining careers

see Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Shaq, among others

[QUOTE=STATUTORY]and ruining careers

see Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Shaq, among others[/QUOTE]
Mo Williams was never a better player than he was playing with LeBron. He got better, and got undeserved recognition playing along side him, then got exposed come playoff time for his own personal short comings.

Larry Hughes was already on the tail end of his career, and then had personal issues that spiraled his career into mess and then extinction.

Shaq was already a shell of what he used to be by 2006, let alone 2010. Don't even try to make the argument that Shaq should've been better with LeBron and that it was Bron who ruined his career.

The guy blew his achilles the very next year simply by running up the court. Shaq should've retired in 2007 or after his nice little turn around rub in Phoenix in 2008 due to an excellent medical staff.

He was done by the time he got to the Cavs in the 2009 - 2010 season, you're being a troll.

[QUOTE=STATUTORY]and ruining careers

see Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Shaq, among others[/QUOTE]
Wow you are dumb.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Kobe the past three games is averaging 13 assists a game, so this 3 game stretch peak at the moment is actually equal to Lebron's highest peak that season - this makes the comparison all the more worthy does it not? [/QUOTE]

Absolutely not :oldlol:

Lebron did it for a whole season, averaging nearly 9 APG. I just posted the stretches were he put up double digit assists, and he still managed to put up big scoring numbers in most instances.

[QUOTE]Kobe's 3 game stretch peak when he wants to be the facilitator is equal to Lebron during Lebron's best passing season? As a fan who "stans" neither one of these guys the comparison seems a lot more worthy to me than some of you guys are acting, some of you guys are acting like it's sacreligious to point this out. 39 assists in 3 games is damn impressive, Lebron in his best passing season only did it once. And you guys are straight up trying to belittle me for bringing it up as a discussion - just sayin[/QUOTE]

How about we wait to see if Kobe can sustain this for 2 weeks, let alone a season or entire career, then we'll have the conversation about how he measures up to an ATG facilitator.

In the meantime, let's discuss if Troy Hudson is a better scorer than Isaiah Thomas. After all he had 92 points (31 PPG) in 3 games in the playoffs one season.

[QUOTE=LikeABosh]Lebron does it while scoring 26+ per game and rebounding.[/QUOTE]
lol @ Rebound

How many rebounds does Lebron get off playing pf and from the line? in case u did not know Kobe is a guard

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]It's worth discussing[/QUOTE]

14 pts / 11 assists stuff is LBJs really off night.

Even 21 pts / 14 assists. is LBJs off night.

Come talke to me when Kobe hits 25 pts / 15 assists / 13 rebounds.

[B]LBJ is SUPERIOR to any Kobe version. Peak Prime or today's current washed up trash.[/B]

[QUOTE=G-Funk]lol @ Rebound

How many rebounds does Lebron get off playing pf and from the line? in case u did not know Kobe is a guard[/QUOTE]
Just saying that Lebron gets assists while also doing everything else. Kobe has had alot of assists the past 3 games but scoring has plummeted. This new "passing kobe" will be done in a week or two anyway

[QUOTE=G-Funk]while turning his playmates into spot up role players? Lebron is notorious for brining players stats down.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, getting assists with Andy Varejao and Boobie Gibson as teammates is a bit more challenging than doing it with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol, etc :oldlol:

I can't believe people actually take this shit seriously. :biggums:

Let's put it this way. If Kobe put it on himself to be a facilitator throughout his career, he would be better at it than Bronze.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan]14 pts / 11 assists stuff is LBJs really off night.

Even 21 pts / 14 assists. is LBJs off night.

Come talke to me when Kobe hits 25 pts / 15 assists / 13 rebounds.

[B]LBJ is SUPERIOR to any Kobe version. Peak Prime or today's current washed up trash.[/B][/QUOTE]
The question of the topic is, when Kobe is in facilitate mode is he a better [I]facilitator[/I] than Lebron (note... a specific task). The question isn't whether he is a better / more well rounded / complete player while doing it. It's simply whether or not he is a better [I]facilitator[/I] when he puts his mind to it. 13 assists per game even in a 3 game stretch has only once been matched by Lebron during Lebron's best passing season - you guys act like he puts up assist numbers for 3 game stretches like that all the time - he doesn't.

[QUOTE=Money 23]If LeBron wanted to he could lead the league in scoring, but that's not his job here.

Afterall, he's actually proven that ... he has just 1 less scoring title than Kobe, and has 2x 30 ppg to Kobe's 3x 30 ppg seasons.

He also won his scoring title in a more balanced officiated year (2008) compared to the league adjustment years of 2006 and 2007.

Where as Kobe's never even finished top five in assists per game. But sure, we'll take your word for it.[/QUOTE]

Haha calm down sport I was just using the same play of words Lebron used for Kobe. Jesus people can't even joke around without someone getting up in arms and posting a wall of text.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Yeah, getting assists with Andy Varejao and Boobie Gibson as teammates is a bit more challenging than doing it with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol, etc :oldlol:

I can't believe people actually take this shit seriously. :biggums:[/QUOTE]
Lmao
Did u just begin watching basketball 3 games ago or wut? Nash has been the pg, Kobe has been playing off the ball all season. NOW that he plays that roll hes getting 13 assist per game

The difference is Kobe is specifically focusing on Assists, LeBron doesn't. LeBron has an all around game, scoring, rebounding, and assists. If LeBron were to give up scoring and rebounds, he could easily get the same or more assists then Kobe.

It's really easy to pass the ball. Don't act like Kobe is some god for being able to.