Atheism vs. Theism

[QUOTE=miller-time]This might be true to some degree. But you also have to acknowledge that this is the first time in recent history that atheists are actually able to come out. How many people have been atheists in the past but have had to keep it a secret? The numbers aren't just growing because it is popular, they are also growing because they simply can. Fear of being ostracized is decreasing, however that isn't true for everywhere.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. But, it wasn't like atheists were being hunted like witches and burned at the stake either.

Also, and this is just my opinion, I feel like the poles have shifted to your very point. It's almost as if you're a believer, you're automatically labeled an idiot. Unable to think for yourself. Brainwashed. Maybe back in the day atheists were heavily mocked and ridiculed, but today, wouldn't you agree it seems almost the opposite, especially when talking about young adults, and even young teenagers.

I think even now today, and especially in the future, believers will become the outcasts. Believers will become the taboo. Believers will become the misinformed, uneducated (or at least thought to be), those of less intelligence, etc.

Are there dumb as shit believers out there? Yes, most certainly. However, I think it's a bit unfair for a typical average atheist these days (especially the younger newly enlightened type) to label any and all believers as dumbasses, etc. without really having a solid understanding of the whole God debate thing. Many atheists are very quick to pull the trigger and insult a religious person (ESPECIALLY a Christian) without any real merit behind it.

While there are many religious people who think/feel they're intellectual superior to non-believers, there are certainly WAY MORE atheists who feel they're the ones who are mentally superior, and that believers are WAY MORE mentally inferior. Like a rabbit v. turtle race comparison level. Religious people don't go around mocking atheists 24/7 365, but we know atheists do. I'm not saying ALL religious or ALL atheists, I'm just saying on average.

The part I really don't get... is why Christianity is attacked so fiercely? Why do atheists hate Jesus Christ so much? Let's suppose JC never even lived. Let's suppose there is no God, etc ... why exactly are so many atheists just THAT ragingly mad at Christ? I mean, I'm talking real hardcore insults, jokes, mockery. I've always found that interesting and enigmatic.

I think many atheists hate Jesus Christ more than say a Hitler, Stalin or even Judus haha. Why?

[QUOTE]A very common attribute for atheists (especially young adults, thinking they understand the entire world around them, and that the average Christian is a mindless moron) is that atheists always have God on the brain[/QUOTE]
that's not a common attribute for atheists, it's a common attribute for anybody even remotely interested in the mysteries of life. and i'm not just talking about the metaphysical questions like "what started it all" and "is there life after death", though that's obviously part of it.

mostly i'm talking about the questions that arise from the inevitable shortcomings of whatever explanations we've managed to scrape together to understand our everyday human affairs, both personal and social. we certainly still don't have much of a grasp on any of it as far as i can tell. most generally, what's human nature? what's our primary psychological drive? survival instinct? love thy neighbour and cooperation? a will to power? how do we navigate the pros and cons of emotions like guilt, resentment, or the institutions of dependence and authority that are at once so helpful and yet so harmful? how the f*ck do we reconcile the fact that we live our entire lives on a core assumption that we're the center of the universe that revolves around us.... but everyone else does to? what justifies our love and our hate and our passions, or is their very nature the fact that nothing justifies them, and more than that, nothing [i]should[/i] justify them? should we question them? why should i obey my parents? for how long should i obey my parents? is cynicism towards the political life acceptable or is a failure to participate in the great problems of the world the one unacceptable decision a human can make? is hedonism the only way out? should i deride that lazy bum on the street or consider how he got there? am i in it for myself or are we all in it together?

our social sciences have compiled an unbelievably thorough record of peoples behavioural tendencies... but that's all they are. tendencies that remain totally inapplicable at the individual level and still far too subject to a myriad of circumstance at the general level to give them any predictive weight. the hard questions persist and remain mysterious.

it's THOSE mysteries that are precisely what makes life interesting and fun and worth thinking critically about and contemplating with others. at the end of the day, experiencing all of that mumbo jumbo is what makes us human beings.

so finally, it's the limits of our understanding that make people consider god on a serious level, regardless of self identity or social affiliation, christian, jew, atheist preaching at the pulpit, satanic cult leader, buddhist monk, w/e. because the thing about god is that he/she/it is among the most multifaceted concepts humans have ever created. the fact that god is infinite by definition only underscores that fact. from the most restricted version of theism to the broadest pantheism, they all fundamentally serve the same purpose. to make sense of that which is beyond our senses and seemingly, perhaps even permanently, beyond the very tool of the rationality that even allows us to consider this shit. try to reduce all the conflicts and paradoxes and everyday dilemmas to a simplicity thats actually within the constraints of our thinking capacity.

and really, in my opinion at least, if the endgame is getting answers, it's all an effort in futility. if your endgame is enjoying the process itself, well, you're in luck. but it's all still worth thinking about, and if upon reflection of all the mysteries of life, you can't find room for at least some idea of "god", well all i can suggest is that you keep reflecting.


thats what i think anyway

more on the topic of what you guys are talking about, there is a definite shift coursing through modern society. it was only a matter of time before our secular politics would eventually come to bear on our religious convictions. organized faith in the traditional sense is unquestionably receding. and for the americans here, most of you probably, your country is among the most religious in the world so your view is a little skewed in terms of global trends.

I am an atheist who has NO PROBLEM with Jesus Christ (who probably didn't even exist). The message of LOVING THY BROTHER is great. I am down with love, considerateness, and empathy. To me, they give life meaning.

HOWEVER there is no God and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional and/or in denial.

nice work, OP. fair points and an interesting topic.

i've thought about all this before and i have an answer:


[b]everyone in the world is religious, whether they like it or not, admit to it or not.[/b]


every modern human is 'cursed' with one of the worst drawbacks in history...... i.e., a brain that self-recognises. therefore, a brain that glimpses so much more than itself.

something like that, anyway.

religion is nothing more and nothing less than an attempt to make sense of the cosmos and to give order and security to one's life. people who try to live a life without the comforting answers of religion, community, family and so forth are generally the sickest / most needy of all people in society.

that's my early run-through, in any case.
sane? or full of excrement?


EDIT: ridonks showed up?!? YES....!

I just have another general question I've been curious about for some time now. Why do many atheists always seem so angry.

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]I agree with you. But, it wasn't like atheists were being hunted like witches and burned at the stake either.[/quote]

Well they have been. And they are to this day. It is actually still illegal in some countries to be an atheist, and if you are found out you can be sentenced to death or imprisonment. In fact it is kind of insulting to say that they haven't been persecuted in any way. In the same way it would be insulting to flat out deny that any person or group of people have been persecuted.

[quote]Also, and this is just my opinion, I feel like the poles have shifted to your very point. It's almost as if you're a believer, you're automatically labeled an idiot. Unable to think for yourself. Brainwashed. Maybe back in the day atheists were heavily mocked and ridiculed, but today, wouldn't you agree it seems almost the opposite, especially when talking about young adults, and even young teenagers.[/quote]

I think it really just comes down to where you are. If I attended a Christian school or fundamentalist church I would expect some mocking and name calling (at least in some places - not all) - and if I were still a child or even teenager I would probably hide my atheism. Also in American politics it is very unlikely an open atheist will for the near future be able to become president.

[quote]Are there dumb as shit believers out there? Yes, most certainly. However, I think it's a bit unfair for a typical average atheist these days (especially the younger newly enlightened type) to label any and all believers as dumbasses, etc. without really having a solid understanding of the whole God debate thing. Many atheists are very quick to pull the trigger and insult a religious person (ESPECIALLY a Christian) without any real merit behind it.[/quote]

People change. I was far more arrogant and vocal when I was younger. This happens in all groups though. Although I do have to say that I have encountered religious people calling out atheists for attacking them when all they've really tried to do is challenge their belief system. The believer might not like it, and they have the right to be offended, but just because they are offended doesn't make them right. If they tried to leave the conversation/debate and the atheist kept harassing them then I would say that is an attack. But if it is in the confines of the discussion then it is not.

[quote]While there are many religious people who think/feel they're intellectual superior to non-believers, there are certainly WAY MORE atheists who feel they're the ones who are mentally superior, and that believers are WAY MORE mentally inferior. Like a rabbit v. turtle race comparison level. Religious people don't go around mocking atheists 24/7 365, but we know atheists do. I'm not saying ALL religious or ALL atheists, I'm just saying on average.[/quote]

I can't agree or disagree with that. I honestly don't know how to find that out. Either way I'm not bothered. If someone wants to try and flaunt their imagined superiority then they probably have other issues they need to deal with.

[quote]The part I really don't get... is why Christianity is attacked so fiercely? Why do atheists hate Jesus Christ so much? Let's suppose JC never even lived. Let's suppose there is no God, etc ... why exactly are so many atheists just THAT ragingly mad at Christ? I mean, I'm talking real hardcore insults, jokes, mockery. I've always found that interesting and enigmatic.

I think many atheists hate Jesus Christ more than say a Hitler, Stalin or even Judus haha. Why?[/QUOTE]

I can't speak for all atheists, but not a lot of them don't hate Jesus at all because they don't believe he existed - or he at least isn't who the bible portrays him to be. Again is Christianity being attacked or is it being challenged? Remember this is a belief system that right now has a very strong influence over society. Most atheists are secularists, and that is where there motivation for challenging Christianity comes from. If Christianity were in a vacuum and people were able to believe it without it influencing other people then no one would care. Believe what you want. The problem is that it does influence our laws and politics.

[QUOTE=miller-time]Every star you look at you are looking back in time (sometimes billions of years). We don't need to go back in time to see what was happening at the early stages of the universe because light and other radiation from those events is still traveling towards us.[/QUOTE]

SO there is proof that earth was created by the big bang because of the radiation from the stars?? i dont see what point you are trying to make here...

[QUOTE=PistonsFan#21]SO there is proof that earth was created by the big bang because of the radiation from the stars?? i dont see what point you are trying to make here...[/QUOTE]

I was responding to your point about whether we can "go back" and study the universe in its infancy. And we can because all of that information is right in front of us now. We don't need to go back in time to understand how the universe formed we just need to look up (and also do a bit of physics and that).

[QUOTE=PistonsFan#21]Please tell me more about how scientists witnessed the big bang [/quote][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcds5Ob59Dg[/url]

[url]http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/research/gr/public/bb_pillars.html[/url]



[quote]and the evolution of bacteries into apes and humans :applause:[/QUOTE][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZCL3gv9kEM[/url]

[url]http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100513-science-evolution-darwin-single-ancestor/[/url]

[url]http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v465/n7295/full/nature09014.html[/url]

[QUOTE=miller-time]I was responding to your point about whether we can "go back" and study the universe in its infancy. And we can because all of that information is right in front of us now. We don't need to go back in time to understand how the universe formed we just need to look up (and also do a bit of physics and that).[/QUOTE]
There is no information or proof that dates back billions of years ago. If there was the big bang would be a fact and not a theory. Like i said they can only suppose what happened. Stars dont add any truth to the big bang.

[QUOTE=PistonsFan#21]There is no information or proof that dates back billions of years ago. If there was the big bang would be a fact and not a theory. Like i said they can only suppose what happened. Stars dont add any truth to the big bang.[/QUOTE]

The fact is that stars and galaxies are billions of light years away (and moving away from us). The theory is the model used to explain this phenomena. Theories don't become facts, theories explain facts.

[QUOTE=Inactive][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcds5Ob59Dg[/url]

[url]http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/research/gr/public/bb_pillars.html[/url]



[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZCL3gv9kEM[/url]

[url]http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100513-science-evolution-darwin-single-ancestor/[/url]

[url]http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v465/n7295/full/nature09014.html[/url][/QUOTE]

So...i asked you to tell me more more about how they [B][U]WITNESSED[/U][/B] it. Because the OP claimed that we weren`t here to witness the saying of the bible which means its false according to him. not some explanation they try to come up with. and even in that big bang theory link it says:

''Although generally accepted as the model for the origin and evolution of the universe, the Big Bang theory is not complete. For example, it does not explain what caused the initial expansion or why galaxies formed.''

[QUOTE=miller-time]The fact is that stars and galaxies are billions of light years away (and moving away from us). [B]The theory is the model used to explain this phenomena. Theories don't become facts, theories explain facts[/B].[/QUOTE]

This is my point exactly. Atheists try to mock religions but they fail to see that the big bang is just a theory and not a proven fact. Its just a supposition of what might have happened.

If you think about it they consider the big bang as their God.

[QUOTE=PistonsFan#21]This is my point exactly. Atheists try to mock religions but they fail to see that the big bang is just a theory and not a proven fact. Its just a supposition of what might have happened.

If you think about it they consider the big bang as their God.[/QUOTE]

The distinguishing difference is that it is based on empirical evidence. Observations can be repeated and experiments can be performed. We can disprove the big bang theory. At least we know the facts the theory is based on exist.

And I don't know of anyone that worships the big bang theory? If new evidence comes along people will discard the idea.

[QUOTE=PistonsFan#21]So...i asked you to tell me more more about how they [B][U]WITNESSED[/U][/B] it. not some explanation they try to come up with.[/quote]There isn't some atemporal scientist out there, just watching things unfold. No one can personally witness past events. That doesn't mean that we can't examine evidence, and understand what happened. Do you reject the existence of the world prior to your earliest memory? Do you reject the existence of anything that you don't personally witness?


[quote]and even in that big bang theory link it says:

''Although generally accepted as the model for the origin and evolution of the universe, the Big Bang theory is not complete. For example, it does not explain what caused the initial expansion or why galaxies formed.''[/QUOTE]So? We don't know what it was like before the big bang, or what caused the big bang. That doesn't falsify observational evidence of the big bang. Knowing that it happened ≠ Knowing what caused it ≠ Knowing what preceded it.

[QUOTE=Inactive]There isn't some atemporal scientist out there, just watching things unfold. No one can personally witness past events. That doesn't mean that we can't examine evidence, and understand what happened. [B]Do you reject the existence of the world prior to your earliest memory? Do you reject the existence of anything that you don't personally witness?[/B]


So? We don't know what it was like before the big bang, or what caused the big bang. That doesn't falsify observational evidence of the big bang. Knowing that it happened ≠ Knowing what caused it ≠ Knowing what preceded it.[/QUOTE]

my friend did you even check my reply on the 1st page? i know sometimes sarcasm is not as evident on the internet but this is exactly what i wanted to prove to the OP

[QUOTE=miller-time]The distinguishing difference is that it is based on empirical evidence. Observations can be repeated and experiments can be performed. We can disprove the big bang theory. At least we know the facts the theory is based on exist.

And I don't know of anyone that worships the big bang theory? [B]If new evidence comes along people will discard the idea[/B].[/QUOTE]

This is true. But that is the problem. There were numerous times scientists came up with a theory and then changed it later on to something different. And might change it again sometime in the future. There is nothing set in stones.

Yes the experiences can be repeated and all that but it doesnt mean that just because they can repeat it its necessarily the cause of the creation of the universe. There might be some other causes that they have yet to discover or simply cant understand.

To me its all about belief and faith

[QUOTE=PistonsFan#21]my friend did you even check my reply on the 1st page? i know sometimes sarcasm is not as evident on the internet but this is exactly what i wanted to prove to the OP[/QUOTE]So, your problem with the OP was entirely semantic? Based on the word "witness"? Or do we need to get into a discussion about how inferences drawn from evidence, which make falsifiable predictions, and are experimentally verified, are not the same as metaphysical speculation, and "just so" stories?

[QUOTE=Inactive]So, your problem with the OP was entirely semantic? Based on the word "witness"? Or do we need to get into a discussion about how inferences drawn from evidence, which make falsifiable predictions, and are experimentally verified, are not the same as metaphysical speculation, and "just so" stories?[/QUOTE]

My problem with the OP is that he used ''not being a witness'' to disprove religions. So i asked him if he was able to witness the big bang because thats what he believes in...that simple. I even bolded that part to let him understand thats what i was referring to

[QUOTE=PistonsFan#21]My problem with the OP is that he used ''not being a witness'' to disprove religions. So i asked him if he was able to witness the big bang because thats what he believes in...that simple. I even bolded that part to let him understand thats what i was referring to[/QUOTE]I don't think he meant witness literally.

[QUOTE=PistonsFan#21]This is true. But that is the problem. There were numerous times scientists came up with a theory and then changed it later on to something different. And might change it again sometime in the future. There is nothing set in stones. [/quote]Why is this a problem?

As we're able to measure things more accurately, and observe more, our theories get refined.

[quote]Yes the experiences can be repeated and all that but it doesnt mean that just because they can repeat it its necessarily the cause of the creation of the universe. There might be some other causes that they have yet to discover or simply cant understand.[/quote]There are certainly a lot of things which have yet to be discovered, or understood. If there weren't, no one would want to become a scientist.

[quote]To me its all about belief and faith[/QUOTE]It's the opposite. Faith is all about believing in something without, or in spite of evidence. Science is all about believing whatever the best evidence tells you. There are very few things which you have to take for granted, in order to do science.

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]I just have another general question I've been curious about for some time now. Why do many atheists always seem so angry.[/QUOTE]

Sometimes you may be mistaking frustration over stupidity for anger.

I find many religious zealots to be idiots, and I can't believe they can't open their eyes and realize how dumb they're being.

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]I just have another general question I've been curious about for some time now. Why do many atheists always seem so angry.[/QUOTE]

this is a joke right? my guess this "athiest anger" that you perceive is probably due to the fact that atheists have zero morals and multiple mental defects.

if you arent kidding, maybe you can answer me this: why do so many christians always seem so angry? also why do so many muslims seem so angry? why do so many human beings in general seem angry regardless of their religion?

[QUOTE=Nanners]this is a joke right? my guess this "athiest anger" that you perceive is probably due to the fact that atheists have zero morals and multiple mental defects.

if you arent kidding, maybe you can answer me this: why do so many christians always seem so angry? also why do so many muslims seem so angry? why do so many human beings in general seem angry regardless of their religion?[/QUOTE]

I wasn't kidding at all. There's angry folks of any and all religions, but I think we can all agree atheists "seem" the most angry of all respectively. There's obviously no proof or backed scientific study of something such as this, just speaking in general terms.

You don't agree. That's fine. Maybe you were offended.

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]I wasn't kidding at all. There's angry folks of any and all religions, [B]but I think we can all agree atheists "seem" the most angry of all respectively[/B]. There's obviously no proof or backed scientific study of something such as this, just speaking in general terms.

You don't agree. That's fine. Maybe you were offended.[/QUOTE]I don't see it.

I do think there are some atheist kids who think they're being rebellious, and want to confront people with it, but in general I'd guess that atheists are, if anything, less emotionally volatile.

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]I wasn't kidding at all. There's angry folks of any and all religions, [B]but I think we can all agree atheists "seem" the most angry of all respectively.[/B] There's obviously no proof or backed scientific study of something such as this, just speaking in general terms.

You don't agree. That's fine. Maybe you were offended.[/QUOTE]


you thought wrong.

as long as we are making broad generalizations - muslims, jews and christians all seem a lot "angrier" than atheists to me.

[QUOTE=Nanners]you thought wrong.

as long as we are making broad generalizations - muslims, jews and christians all seem a lot "angrier" than atheists to me.[/QUOTE]

How is what you bold'd from me something "you thought wrong" (meaning me being wrong) ? ... I don't see it being wrong or an inaccurate statement. You think religious people seem angrier; I feel atheists are. Atheists have the chip on their shoulder. IMO, much more than those who belong to a religious organization.

I mean come on dude, just admit so many atheists await for any and all opportunities to jump into a religious conversation (be it RL or here on the internet) and engage in a negative way. Atheists are way more quick to blast religious people with harsh insults and belittling smug remarks right from the very beginning of any such discussion.

Different people, different experiences I suppose.

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]How is what you bold'd from me something "you thought wrong" (meaning me being wrong) ? ... I don't see it being wrong or an inaccurate statement. You think religious people seem angrier; I feel atheists are. Atheists have the chip on their shoulder. IMO, much more than those who belong to a religious organization.

I mean come on dude, just admit so many atheists await for any and all opportunities to jump into a religious conversation (be it RL or here on the internet) and engage in a negative way. Atheists are way more quick to blast religious people with harsh insults and belittling smug remarks right from the very beginning of any such discussion.

Different people, different experiences I suppose.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, but as I said before this isn't something we can really prove. But lets say for arguments sake it is true. What is your point?

[QUOTE=miller-time]I disagree, but as I said before this isn't something we can really prove. But lets say for arguments sake it is true. What is your point?[/QUOTE]

There is no real point. Just a personal observation.

[QUOTE=miller-time]I disagree, but as I said before this isn't something we can really prove. But lets say for arguments sake it is true. What is your point?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://207.58.151.151/forum/showpost.php?p=3388625&postcount=85:old[/url]

:oldlol: cmon son. Didn't take but a few seconds

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy][url]http://207.58.151.151/forum/showpost.php?p=3388625&postcount=85:old[/url]

:oldlol: cmon son. Didn't take but a few seconds[/QUOTE]

3 or 4 years ago. And as I just said. So what?

I don't even remember making that post, so I'm not sure if I am angry, frustrated or just taking the piss?

Plus it is only one instance. How long have you known me? How often have I been angry? Even if you find more posts like that, how much time do you think I am spending in that state of mind? Everyone gets angry and frustrated - it doesn't mean they always are.

[QUOTE=miller-time]3 or 4 years ago. And as I just said. So what?

I don't even remember making that post, so I'm not sure if I am angry, frustrated or just taking the piss?

Plus it is only one instance. How long have you known me? How often have I been angry?[/QUOTE]
Idk what his point was, I do agree though. But I'm looking from this side of the fence

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]Idk what his point was, I do agree though. But I'm looking from this side of the fence[/QUOTE]

But I wasn't even necessarily disagreeing with him. So how is there even a fence?

[QUOTE=miller-time]But I wasn't even necessarily disagreeing with him. So how is there even a fence?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=miller-time][b]I disagree[/b], but as I said before this isn't something we can really prove. But lets say for arguments sake it is true. What is your point?[/QUOTE]
:confusedshrug: you're making this way more difficult than it needs to be

[QUOTE=BuGzBuNNy]:confusedshrug: you're making this way more difficult than it needs to be[/QUOTE]

No I saw it, which is why I prefaced disagreeing with necessarily. His conclusion is based on anecdotal evidence. He could be right but who knows?

What I'm not saying is that there are more angry Christians than atheists. Which would be a straight up dichotomous disagreement.

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]How is what you bold'd from me something "you thought wrong" (meaning me being wrong) ?[/QUOTE]


what i bolded is something that "you thought wrong" because the part that was bolded says "I think we can all agree that....." and i dont agree with you. it doesnt look like anybody agrees with you.

[QUOTE=Legend of Josh]Atheists have the chip on their shoulder. IMO, much more than those who belong to a religious organization.

I mean come on dude, [B]just admit [/B]so many atheists await for any and all opportunities to jump into a religious conversation (be it RL or here on the internet) and engage in a negative way. Atheists are way more quick to blast religious people with harsh insults and belittling smug remarks right from the very beginning of any such discussion.

Different people, different experiences I suppose.[/QUOTE]

im not admitting something that is not true. if you want to discuss generalizations based on internet experiences then you should just admit that all catholics are child molestors (or child molestor enablers at best)

the fact that you argue with atheists on the internet, the fact that atheists hit you with "harsh insults and belitting smug remarks" (lmao) does not mean that atheists have a chip on their shoulder, and it doesnt mean they are "angry"

[url]http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8301201&postcount=75[/url]

[QUOTE=Segatti]Yeah, judging by your post and others (Glide2keva, Go Getter) in this thread you can see how much pacific and respectful people atheists are compared to the "religious nuts" :roll:[/QUOTE]

Why wouldn't I make fun of them? It's not that they believe in God - that's fine. It's that they're nuts. I make fun of nuts people.

And they don't even know the very dogma they subscribe to. The story of Noah is from the Old Testament, which is only included in the Bible because of its creation myth and few other outstanding elements that are important to Christianity (such as the Fall of Man so it could be used by Christianity to guilt humanity). As a whole, the Old Testament is of the Jewish canon with most of the literature being MYTHOLOGICAL no different than the Gods of Mount Olympus, the Nordic Gods of Valhalla, Winnie The Pooh, other fictional stuff (most of it written 600 BC when the Hebrews were exiled in Babylon). Why does Jesus mention it? Because he was a Jew and it was part of their holy scripture.

And yes, Jesus was a historical figure. He existed. A Jewish man wanting to re-interpret religion, relationship to God (Yahweh) and more (there's only ONE Yahweh, MJ DA GOD). Doesn't mean he walked on water or was the son of God, LOL. Maybe he himself believed he was the son of God, in which case he was probably a schizophrenic, delusional man. Or he knowingly conned people into thinking he was the son of God in order to further his agenda. Either way, people believed him and deityfied him. You think this is unlikely? It happens today even that people are mystified by charismatic, public personalities and embellish accounts/events of the person. Tex Winther is lying through his teeth when claiming Wilt Chamberlain shot 'dunking' free throws or whatever by the way, c'mon.

To literally believe in the story of Noah's Ark is nuts. To believe in God and take out of biblical allegories higher points of meaning, morality, justification of existence -- OK, that's not (totally) nuts.

Think about this, religious people. If we consider a cosmic calendar, consisting of 12 months of which January 1st at 00:00.0000000000001 AM is the birth of the universe. When do human beings come into the picture? Somewhere around December 31st 11.53 PM (or so, don't recall the exact time). Humans are such an insignificant organism in the macro perspective, yet you think we are special, chosen beings by the Bearded Guy upstairs. What about the other 14 billion years before humans existed; what was God doing in that time period? Or was the Earth created 4000 years ago? LOL.

To me, religion is a thing of duality. I respect people's spirituality and the belief of something higher than man, though I don't subscribe to this idea myself. I'm rational a man of science and reason. But extremists turn me off. Why not respect their belief? Because it's because of people like them we were set back as a species. Set back at least 1500 years. 1500 years of technological advancement we missed out on because generations of religious nuts suppressed scientific advancement that didn't adhere to their view on God.

2500 years ago there were some astronomers of antiquity who believed the Earth was round, the Earth was NOT the center of the universe (they did however believe the Sun was). They couldn't prove it yet because they lacked the tools and the mathematics, but some were very close. One did actually prove the Earth was round, an Egyptian mathematician. Because of the persecution of these and ANYONE who had similar thoughts until the f*cking renaissance around 1600 AC these ideas went underdeveloped for so long. Think of where we would be as a species, as a society had these things not been hindered. We would've been on Mars by now no doubt. Cancer? Hunger? Poverty?

Two millennia of technology we missed out on because extremists hanged people who in antiquity didn't believe Zeus and his gang. In the Roman empire and dark ages it was people who didn't believe in Jesus as the son of God and the list goes on.

So yeah, pardon me if I'm not gonna be all nice to nutty religious people.

Athiests are as crazy as religious people. Argue so hard about shit they don't even believe in lmao

[QUOTE=KingBeasley08]Athiests are as crazy as religious people. Argue so hard about shit they don't even believe in lmao[/QUOTE]

I'd say their response is proportional to the amount of arguments they have to hear about religion. If people claimed unicorns were true every day of the week they would probably talk about that too.

I wouldnt call myself an atheist, but will I say that the reason atheist come at religious people the way they do is because atheist are looking at religion in the same way as they look at any other thing to decide if it is true or not.

Christians (for example) on the other hand, can laugh and understand how ridiculous OTHER religions sound, but they cannot see their own religion in that ridiculous light.

For a person like me, who used to be a christian, but stopped after I kept doing the math (and it wasnt adding up), it is like having a conversation about whether or not Santa Clause is real or whether the Easter Bunny is real. I think atheist gets animated because to them? it is a very ridiculous idea (the idea that these religions and their Gods are real)

When I decided to find out once and for all if Jesus was real and if the Bible was the holy book christians proclaimed it to be? that when I learned that it was not, and I accepted that because it is obvious if Iam being honest with myself. It takes time to disown the idea of going heaven and all the other beliefs that keep people tied to religion, but IMO it was one of the best things I ever did. It freed me from using that archaic code to rule my life.

[QUOTE=miller-time]I'd say their response is proportional to the amount of arguments they have to hear about religion. If people claimed unicorns were true every day of the week they would probably talk about that too.[/QUOTE]
Just sit back and laugh. Instead they spaz out like little children doing all this research trying to convince someone that isn't gonna be convinced. I always found athiests to be losers in a way, no disrespect to some of the people here