Could Dennis Rodman defend Lebron?

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Dennis Rodman's "Incedible defense on Shaq!" video has made Dennis Rodman overrated as a defender. Rodman was not the best defender in his time, he was known as a pest player that would get in your head and cheapshot you a few times in order to get you throw out of games, he also was good at making the right kind of hustle intangible plays at the right time to help the teams he was on, and was of course a supremely elite rebounder. But he wasn't some defensive god. If you want someone to defend Lebron from that era you pick Scottie Pippen.[/QUOTE]

I don't agree that Rodman is overrated. My memory tells me that during his prime everyone knew rodman was an elite defender, not just a pest, in addition to his rebounding ridiculousness. But I do agree that if the Bulls were playing the Heat, they might well end up matching Pippen with Lebron and sticking Rodman on Wade or even (maybe most likely) Bosh. That would be innnnteresting.

[QUOTE=pauk]No, thats a speed/quickness mismatch (talent/skill mismatch is obvious)... and Lebron is even bigger than Rodman was...[/QUOTE]




You are overlooked Rodman 's quickness and reflect. Even MJ has to work for his points against him. Rodman could defend lebron without a doubt.

[QUOTE=Micku]No he didn't. Rodman guarded Shaq on a few instances, where he did very well by getting him out of position and taking tough shots. He did not guard him the whole series every time he was on the floor.[/QUOTE]

People seem to think he [I]did [/I]guard Shaq the entire series. The reality was that he couldn't. He was capable of guarding him separate possessions every now and then, just like Lebron would be able to guard Dwight every now and then (well, the Dwight of old, anyway), but not for a whole game, or a whole series (!).

My larger point was that (largely because of that video in particular) Rodman has this reputation as a defensive god that can guard anyone in any situation for any length of time, and that this isn't the case.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Dennis Rodman's "Incedible defense on Shaq!" video has made Dennis Rodman overrated as a defender. Rodman was not the best defender in his time, he was known as a pest player that would get in your head and cheapshot you a few times in order to get you throw out of games, he also was good at making the right kind of hustle intangible plays at the right time to help the teams he was on, and was of course a supremely elite rebounder. But he wasn't some defensive god. If you want someone to defend Lebron from that era you pick Scottie Pippen.[/QUOTE]


Got the gist of it.

Doesn't anyone know why the Spurs did not put Dennis Rodman on a red-hot Hakeem Olajuwon in the 1995 Western Conference finals?

Yes, while the Spurs had Robinson in his MVP prime, if Rodman was some all-world defender on the level of Bobby Jones he would've guarded Hakeem.

But I recall reading his autobiography and elsewhere that the Spurs thought he would get in foul trouble quickly so they gambled and had Rodman guard Horry in the perimeter.

As a result Rodman's instincts led him to sink back in the paint, leaving Horry open all series long. :facepalm

[QUOTE=andgar923]Under today's rules? NO

Under past rules? YES

Naturally, there'd be times Bron would get the best of him. But he'd defend him much better than anybody today due to the rules. I'm sure there's many players today that can do a great job on him, but the rules won't allow them to do so.[/QUOTE]

Lebron had a hand check on him 25 feet away from the basket every single time today. It got even more evident at the end of the game with Westbrook on him. Stop acting as if you could pick people up and move them in previous rules.

Some of you older, more ignorant posters really overhype the difference in defenses. If anything, defenses are better now.

Rodman doesn't even have 1/2 of the skill of pippen defensive skills, pippen doesn't need to get in your head ordeliver cheap shots to defend you. If rodman is allowed to deliver cheap shots than lebron can push off all day too :lol

[QUOTE=Gotterdammerung]Doesn't anyone know why the Spurs did not put Dennis Rodman on a red-hot Hakeem Olajuwon in the 1995 Western Conference finals?

Yes, while the Spurs had Robinson in his MVP prime, if Rodman was some all-world defender on the level of Bobby Jones he would've guarded Hakeem.[/QUOTE]

Robinson was First Team All-Defense and played Hakeem's position. Why would he not guard him?

[QUOTE=Gotterdammerung]But I recall reading his autobiography and elsewhere that the Spurs thought he would get in foul trouble quickly so they gambled and had Rodman guard Horry in the perimeter.

As a result Rodman's instincts led him to sink back in the paint, leaving Horry open all series long. :facepalm[/QUOTE]

Rodman's obsession with rebounds led him to sink back into the paint in order to be in position to rebound. I've posted about this before, but I'm unsure if I did so on this board, as I'm a member of several boards. Sometimes I forget what I've posted where.

On an aside, speaking of Rodman, that's why I only take the Detroit DPOY Rodman on any team of mine, and none of the later versions. If what you're doing on the court doesn't help your team win games then it's meaningless. Getting big rebounding totals at the expense of leaving your defensive assignment open does not help your team win games. That's one reason why people can't just cite stats.

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]

On an aside, speaking of Rodman, that's why I only take the Detroit DPOY Rodman on any team of mine, and none of the later versions.[B] If what you're doing on the court doesn't help your team win games then it's meaningless.[/B] Getting big rebounding totals at the expense of leaving your defensive assignment open does not help your team win games. That's one reason why people can't just cite stats.[/QUOTE]




This is completely accurate and people don't take it into consideration when looking at stats. It's not just accurate, but it's the truth and only right that it's acknowledged...unfortunately, it is not.



But I don't agree on Rodman...at least not completely. He played SF for most of the time in Detroit. His first year in Chicago was a standout year. I think he was less impressive in San Antonio, but he was only there two years and his second year is the more celebrated season, despite him missing 33 games and only starting 26. But again, he did play PF so I don't think he was leaving defensive assignments.

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]Robinson was First Team All-Defense and played Hakeem's position. Why would he not guard him?[/quote]
35 ppg... 12 rpg... & 5 dimes ring any bells? It was obviously not working. :no:

In the autobiography, Rodman said that in the locker room, prior to the games, Robinson was visibly shaking. Whether that was from adrenaline or from a triple espresso shot, I dunno. :oldlol:

Again, if Rodman was some all-world defender that neutralized any top offensive threat, who better than Hakeem Olajuwon [I][B]at his absolute peak? [/B][/I]

That the Spurs stuck with Robinson, despite getting torched every game, says more about this hypothetical scenario than anyone realizes. :facepalm

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]You might not like it but that's a great find.

It's even more impressive to remember how Marion shut down LeBron in that Finals matchup when you can see the stats laid out like that. 8 full points off his average against Marion in the regular season.

That's awesome[/QUOTE]

It

[QUOTE=plowking]... Stop acting as if you could pick people up and move them in previous rules. ...[/QUOTE]
Actually Derek Harper was notorious for using his vice like grip to force the ball carrier into certain spots on the court. It got so bad during the 94 Finals when Harper abused the Rockets guards.

The NBA had to change this rule not long afterwards.

rodman might tire lebron out and make him shoot a weaker percentage and grab less rebounds or other facets but lebron would still get 26, 28, or 30.

if lebron gets 28 points on a low 40% fg, you've done your job as a defender. but you ain't stopping him from collecting buckets throughout the game.

Yes

If Rodman can stop prime young Shaq then LeBron is just a piece of cake..

People here really underrate Rodman defense.. Dude was one of the best defender of all time.. A beast in defense.. He would stop LeBron with no sweat..

[QUOTE=Gotterdammerung]That the Spurs stuck with Robinson, despite getting torched every game, says more about this hypothetical scenario than anyone realizes. :facepalm[/QUOTE]

BAD COACHING.

[QUOTE=Just2McFly]Lol at this bullshit.

[URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=mariosh01"]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=mariosh01[/URL][/QUOTE]

29 ppg on 49%

Yep, contained him! :lol

[QUOTE=PP34Deuce]The best defenders on lebron are not crazy wingspan 3's like Durant, and George. Its guys with girth and lower body strength.

I feel like Rodman lacks the bulk. George and Durant lack the bulk.

THe perfect defender on Bron is 2003-2007 Ron Artest. That Artest had bulk(250-255 muscle) height (6'7) and very quick feet.[/QUOTE]
I remember Wes Matthews doing a good job n the Rose Garden this season ....well Bron got his but Wes did manage to cause TOs and make Bron take long jumpers.

As PP34Deuce stated, prime defensive Artest was probably the player most suited to guard Lebron effectively. Incredible strength, along with great lateral quickness.

Rodman didn't have the lateral quickness (at least not when I watched him, but that was with the Bulls) to stick with Lebron on the perimeter for an entire game.

Second best player to guard Lebron is obviously Pippen. Only place where Lebron has the upper hand is strength, which means post play, and while Lebron has gotten much, much better I'd still take my chances on Lebron trying to beat Pip in the post rather than on the perimeter.

[QUOTE=Gotterdammerung]35 ppg... 12 rpg... & 5 dimes ring any bells? It was obviously not working. :no:

In the autobiography, Rodman said that in the locker room, prior to the games, Robinson was visibly shaking. Whether that was from adrenaline or from a triple espresso shot, I dunno. :oldlol:

Again, if Rodman was some all-world defender that neutralized any top offensive threat, who better than Hakeem Olajuwon [I][B]at his absolute peak? [/B][/I]

That the Spurs stuck with Robinson, despite getting torched every game, says more about this hypothetical scenario than anyone realizes. :facepalm[/QUOTE]




Robinson played awesome defense on Hakeem. Hakeem just had as good as series as...as...


[QUOTE=kshutts1]As PP34Deuce stated, prime defensive Artest was probably the player most suited to guard Lebron effectively. Incredible strength, along with great lateral quickness.

Rodman didn't have the lateral quickness (at least not when I watched him, but that was with the Bulls) to stick with Lebron on the perimeter for an entire game.

Second best player to guard Lebron is obviously Pippen. Only place where Lebron has the upper hand is strength, which means post play, and while Lebron has gotten much, much better I'd still take my chances on Lebron trying to beat Pip in the post rather than on the perimeter.[/QUOTE]



Rodman had much greater lateral quickness than Artest ever had. Maybe not when he was with the Bulls, but while he was in Detroit, absolutely...even in San Antonio...especially that first year.

[QUOTE=kshutts1]As PP34Deuce stated, prime defensive Artest was probably the player most suited to guard Lebron effectively. Incredible strength, along with [B]great lateral quickness.[/B]

Rodman didn't have the lateral quickness (at least not when I watched him, but that was with the Bulls) to stick with Lebron on the perimeter for an entire game.

Second best player to guard Lebron is obviously Pippen. Only place where Lebron has the upper hand is strength, which means post play, and while Lebron has gotten much, much better I'd still take my chances on Lebron trying to beat Pip in the post rather than on the perimeter.[/QUOTE]

Artest never had great lateral quickness.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]Artest never had great lateral quickness.[/QUOTE]


If he never had great lateral quickness, then what enabled him to guard perimeter players so effectively? Would that/those attributes have helped him to stay in front of Lebron?
Without knowing what they were, I say yes... if he could guard other perimeter players' quickness effectively, then he could have guarded Lebron's quickness effectively, and thus I stand by my answer of Artest.

And as for Rodman having great lateral quickness.. you mentioned "maybe not with the Bulls" so I assume you noticed that I was basing my opinion on just his Bulls years.. but just wanted to clarify that. I have no firsthand experience of Rodman before he joined the Bulls.

It is a lot harder to double Lebron than it was to double Jordan because Lebron has Wade/Bosh.

[QUOTE=plowking]Lebron had a hand check on him 25 feet away from the basket every single time today. It got even more evident at the end of the game with Westbrook on him. Stop acting as if you could pick people up and move them in previous rules.

Some of you older, more ignorant posters really overhype the difference in defenses. If anything, defenses are better now.[/QUOTE]


That whole argument is stupid. A great defender from then would still be great today. A few rule changes aren't going to make someone with great defensive instincts forget everything all of a sudden.

A great defender back then you can count on one hand. Today just about every team has a good defensive player on their roster somewhere, whereas back then 20 teams had garbage defenses all around. High scoring games in the 1980's was the norm because of the lack of defense league wide.

The difference is perimeter defense has greatly gotten better over the past 15 years. Compare it to the games back then and it was a comedy show how open players were every night. It was free pickings.

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]29 ppg on 49%

Yep, contained him! :lol[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and its not like Lebron's shooting percentage hurts against him either. Different if Lebron he had been missing shots. Lebron wasn't playing with his heart in it and he still shot 48%. Marion was never know as a Lebron stopper before this but people get carried away with things even when see it and can tell it wasn't about Marion.

[QUOTE=tontoz]It is a lot harder to double Lebron than it was to double Jordan because Lebron has Wade/Bosh.[/QUOTE]
Kukoc & Kerr from downtown changes that argument most drastically

In the 90s, yes.

Today, he'd foul out.

[QUOTE=Hank]A great defender back then you can count on one hand. Today just about every team has a good defensive player on their roster somewhere, whereas back then 20 teams had garbage defenses all around. High scoring games in the 1980's was the norm because of the lack of defense league wide.

The difference is perimeter defense has greatly gotten better over the past 15 years. Compare it to the games back then and it was a comedy show how open players were every night. It was free pickings.[/QUOTE]



Some people just started watching basketball last season...


/Fall of 2010.

[QUOTE=tontoz]It is a lot harder to double Lebron than it was to double Jordan because Lebron has Wade/Bosh.[/QUOTE]

Lebron scored more without Wade and Bosh.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Lebron scored more without Wade and Bosh.[/QUOTE]


He had too. Was less efficient. Was more ball-dominant.

Marion and Kawhi Leonard can shut down LeBron, but Rodman couldn't? :roll:

Well if we're talking about NBA Finals, then I would shut down LeBron...

[QUOTE=Hank]A great defender back then you can count on one hand. Today just about every team has a good defensive player on their roster somewhere, whereas back then 20 teams had garbage defenses all around. High scoring games in the 1980's was the norm because of the lack of defense league wide.

The difference is perimeter defense has greatly gotten better over the past 15 years. Compare it to the games back then and it was a comedy show how open players were every night. It was free pickings.[/QUOTE]

Stop with the excuses you young little f*gg*ts.

I wouldn't even dare bring up old school basketball and compare it to today, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and if you want to go down this path, I could easily say there is little to no good defensive centres in the league today and little to no enforcers or good trash talkers.

You have no room to complain or bring up comparisons from past eras, when the Heat have a clearly stacked team, with a leader who is supposed to be compared to Jordan :facepalm:

[QUOTE=plowking]Lebron had a hand check on him 25 feet away from the basket every single time today. It got even more evident at the end of the game with Westbrook on him. Stop acting as if you could pick people up and move them in previous rules.

Some of you older, more ignorant posters really overhype the difference in defenses. [B]If anything, defenses are better now[/B].[/QUOTE]

I knew you would be trying to find an angle to explain Heat losing. :facepalm:

This is coming from a guy who was trying to compare prime Lebron to prime Jordan, you clearly are dillusional.

In no way is today's defense better than 80's 90's, the only guys who will agree with you are young cats who haven't watched more than just highlights of Jordan's era.

and to answer OP's question, without doubt he could.

If Lebron is displaying this mental fragility in today's game, he would certainly struggle with the worm in his face, trash talking Lebron to the point where Lebron went into full defer mode.

Rodman wasn't just about his ability to defend, but his ability to get in a weakminded player's head. Something Lebron would certainly struggle with.

C'mon ppl.
The way bron flops, rodman would foul out in the first quarter

[QUOTE=deja vu]Marion and Kawhi Leonard can shut down LeBron, but Rodman couldn't? :roll:[/QUOTE]

Thank you.

[QUOTE=Ai2death]C'mon ppl.
The way bron flops, rodman would foul out in the first quarter[/QUOTE]

such bullshit. rodman was an elite flopper himself.