Russell Westbrook

[QUOTE=Graviton]Yes the decision, pass to Perkins, Ibaka or Thabo, all inconsistent role players with no offensive game. And no one is gonna leave Durant wide open, not that he even needs to be assisted when he creates on his own.

Their issue is a team problem, team ball and body movement. You can put CP3 in there and he would struggle vs this Heat defense too. One guy isn't gonna magically fix these flaws, everyone needs to be held accountable. The coach first and foremost that allows that kind of shotjacking and has no real plan offensively besides riding Durant/Westbrook.[/QUOTE]

Oh please you can't really believe that, CP3 on the hornets had David West who isn't half the player Durant is and who else? He made his teammates better because he knows how to play correctly, shooting terrible pullups is sure gonna make things better. You forgot about a guy named Kevin Martin who is a proven 20 pt scorer in this league who got 5 shots tonight, great point guard.

Ok I have fed him enough.

[size=40]Don't feed the troll, terrible poster is terrible poster[/size]

[QUOTE=brandonislegend]Oh please you can't really believe that, CP3 on the hornets had David West who isn't half the player Durant is and who else? He made his teammates better because he knows how to play correctly, shooting terrible pullups is sure gonna make things better. You forgot about a guy named Kevin Martin who is a proven 20 pt scorer in this league who got 5 shots tonight, great point guard.[/QUOTE]



He's a great player who plays PG and performs as a great player. Going by your posts, you would think he hurts more than he helps...even tho that's impossible.



But, they'll never win the title with him playing PG. Especially without someone else who can help facilitate or command the floor.

[QUOTE=Whoah10115]He's a SG.

And that's a fact.[/QUOTE]

SG who is horrible in catch and shoot situations

He needs a playmaking long-distance threat guard beside him. Harden is a perfect fit who can cover Westbrook's weaknesses..such a shame that OKC cannot afford him

Irving >>>> Westbrick.

[QUOTE=imdaman99]Ok I have fed him enough.

Don't feed the troll, terrible poster is terrible poster][/QUOTE]
thank god stop posting you are so delusional even worse than a troll cause trolls are just making shit up you actually believe what you say:roll:

[QUOTE=Celtic_Pride]SG who is horrible in catch and shoot situations

He needs a playmaking long-distance threat guard beside him. Harden is a perfect fit who can cover Westbrook's weaknesses..such a shame that OKC cannot afford him[/QUOTE]



So was Wade, even in his prime. Westbrook reminds me of Wade a little...maybe a little Arenas.


I agree on what Harden brought...however, I also think he needs someone to actually play PG next to him. He's great at breaking down a defense and playmaking like that, but he's not a floor general or very much a facilitator. They need something.

[QUOTE=brandonislegend]Oh please you can't really believe that, CP3 on the hornets had David West who isn't half the player Durant is and who else? He made his teammates better because he knows how to play correctly, shooting terrible pullups is sure gonna make things better. You forgot about a guy named Kevin Martin who is a proven 20 pt scorer in this league who got 5 shots tonight, great point guard.[/QUOTE]
And after CP3, Jarret Jack replicated his performance, after Jack, Vasquez is doing the same. Hornets actually have a PG oriented system. OKC has nothing.

And how is that Westbrook's fault? Did Brooks run plays for Martin and Westbrook refused to pass? You argue like a child with no logic. It's not all black and white. 1 player isn't gonna make a difference when there is no real offensive system in place.

Why did the Spurs sweep the Clippers when CP3 was supposed to be superior to Parker? Because Spurs actually utilized a system that made the most of their talent, it's the same with OKC vs Heat.

[QUOTE=Graviton]And after CP3, Jarret Jack replicated his performance, after Jack, Vasquez is doing the same. Hornets actually have a PG oriented system. OKC has nothing.

And how is that Westbrook's fault? Did Brooks run plays for Martin and Westbrook refused to pass? You argue like a child with no logic. It's not all black and white. 1 player isn't gonna make a difference when there is no real offensive system in place.

Why did the Spurs sweep the Clippers when CP3 was supposed to be superior to Parker? Because Spurs actually utilized a system that made the most of their talent, it's the same with OKC vs Heat.[/QUOTE]
Maybe because all the point guards are known for having high IQ and Westbrick is as smart as a pile of bricks.

[QUOTE=Whoah10115]So was Wade, even in his prime. Westbrook reminds me of Wade a little...
[/QUOTE]

Wade w/o the IQ, vision and finishing ability..

[QUOTE=Graviton]
there is no real offensive system in place.
[/QUOTE]



This is absolutely not true. The offensive system in place is tailor-made for the guys on this team and, specifically, Russell Westbrook. He does a lot more than Brandon gives him credit for, but he makes bad decisions.

[QUOTE=Celtic_Pride]Wade w/o the IQ, vision and finishing ability..[/QUOTE]



I wouldn't agree on the finishing ability. I mean, not as good as Wade, but how many players have been? But he's got finishing.


And yes, I agree on both IQ and vision.

[QUOTE=Graviton]And after CP3, Jarret Jack replicated his performance, after Jack, Vasquez is doing the same. Hornets actually have a PG oriented system. OKC has nothing.

And how is that Westbrook's fault? Did Brooks run plays for Martin and Westbrook refused to pass? You argue like a child with no logic. It's not all black and white. 1 player isn't gonna make a difference when there is no real offensive system in place.

Why did the Spurs sweep the Clippers when CP3 was supposed to be superior to Parker? Because Spurs actually utilized a system that made the most of their talent, it's the same with OKC vs Heat.[/QUOTE]

Their offensive system (which is everyone thriving of Durant's attention) is ideal for Westbrook. Put him in place of Parker, he will suck

[QUOTE=Whoah10115]I wouldn't agree on the finishing ability. I mean, not as good as Wade, but how many players have been? But he's got finishing.
[/QUOTE]

Wade was a superstar because of his insane finishing ability. Westbrook's finishing ability is a joke compared to Wade

That comparison is not fair at all..

He shoots low 40s now, if you put him on a different team, lets say the Cavs for laughs, with no Durant getting attention what percentage would he shoot? 38%? You are complaining about playmaking for Durant, Ibaka, Collison, Kevin Martin how about instead of them you get Thompson, Zeller, Waiters, and Gee. How would he do then? He might average 26ppg on 40% with 5 turnovers at best but how many assist does he get now from just walking up the court and hitting Durant on a pin down, you swear like he doesn't have help.

He is another Steve Francis/Stephen Marbury

They should try do a 3 way deal to get Milsap and trade away Ibaka but it would require a 3rd team.

[QUOTE=Celtic_Pride]Their offensive system (which is everyone thriving of Durant's attention) is ideal for Westbrook. Put him in place of Parker, he will suck[/QUOTE]
Their offensive system is ISO Durant or ISO Westbrook. :oldlol:

There is no team ball or body movement, just those 2 guys taking turns pounding the ball while everyone is a spot up shooter. That was Celtics with Rondo, except they couldn't win that way. When Rondo went out, Celtics offense actually improved with everyone now touching the ball.

Team ball movement>one predictable guy overdribbling and padding assists. That's what OKC needs, constant movement and passing. Learn from Spurs and 2011 Dallas, only way to beat Miami is to play as a team, otherwise 1-2 guys doing everything will easily be shut down by Heat's defense.

Westbrook took an unreal amount of bad shots and turnovers. If you look at the stats and didn't see the game then it looks like he played well. Not trying to diss, he just made so many bad decisions when OKC was cutting into the lead.

[QUOTE=Graviton]Their offensive system is ISO Durant or ISO Westbrook. :oldlol:

There is no team ball or body movement, just those 2 guys taking turns pounding the ball while everyone is a spot up shooter. That was Celtics with Rondo, except they couldn't win that way. When Rondo went out, Celtics offense actually improved with everyone now touching the ball.

Team ball movement>one predictable guy overdribbling and padding assists. That's what OKC needs, constant movement and passing. Learn from Spurs and 2011 Dallas, only way to beat Miami is to play as a team, otherwise 1-2 guys doing everything will easily be shut down by Heat's defense.[/QUOTE]

I dont think you are understanding if they ran a real system Westbrook would not be successful. It would be like putting Shaq on the Suns when they were still running, it doesnt fit because he is too stupid all he is is athleticism that's why he isolates he doesnt understand the game.

[QUOTE=Celtic_Pride]Wade was a superstar because of his insane finishing ability. Westbrook's finishing ability is a joke compared to Wade

That comparison is not fair at all..[/QUOTE]



It's not like I'm comparing quality. I'm comparing the kinds of players they are. Wade is almost 6'4 with no shoes. Westbrook is 6'3. Both are combo guards. Both are SG's. Both slash, both like to work for their own buckets in the midrange. They're both all-time elite athletes, who aggressively attack the basket.


The point is that, like Wade, Westbrook should be playing SG. Wade has much better handles, vision, IQ, ability to run an offense and play the point. And he didn't have an elite wing player who led the league in scoring, to give the ball to.


But he wasn't the point guard. So why is Westbrook being asked to play PG? At this point, I think he wants to stay at the point because someone else is going to be looking for Durant before Westbrook...and Westbrook doesn't want to be anyone's second option.

[QUOTE=Whoah10115]

The point is that, like Wade, Westbrook should be playing SG. [/QUOTE]


Say they want to move him to SG, would your trade Thabo/Ibaka for a passing PG/scoring PF?

[QUOTE=brandonislegend]He shoots low 40s now, if you put him on a different team, lets say the Cavs for laughs, with no Durant getting attention what percentage would he shoot? 38%? You are complaining about playmaking for Durant, Ibaka, Collison, Kevin Martin how about instead of them you get Thompson, Zeller, Waiters, and Gee. How would he do then? He might average 26ppg on 40% with 5 turnovers at best but how many assist does he get now from just walking up the court and hitting Durant on a pin down, you swear like he doesn't have help.

He is another Steve Francis/Stephen Marbury[/QUOTE]



More than Irving.



He's already better than either Marbury or Francis ever were. Francis was never anything special...at least not as a PG, which he played. Marbury was a PG and he had himself one really great year. But Westbrook has already been better and his attitude, despite being that brat that tries to show he's tough at the playground, is much better than either of theirs.

[QUOTE=andremiller07]Say they want to move him to SG, would your trade Thabo/Ibaka for a passing PG/scoring PF?[/QUOTE]

Honest question do you really think with westbricks ego he would agree to give up the PG spot?

[QUOTE=Whoah10115]More than Irving.



He's already better than either Marbury or Francis ever were. Francis was never anything special...at least not as a PG, which he played. Marbury was a PG and he had himself one really great year. But Westbrook has already been better and his attitude, despite being that brat that tries to show he's tough at the playground, is much better than either of theirs.[/QUOTE]

They never played with Kevin Durant or James Harden.

[QUOTE=andremiller07]Say they want to move him to SG, would your trade Thabo/Ibaka for a passing PG/scoring PF?[/QUOTE]



I would trade Harden for one....


oh shit.


Presti make mistake...I wouldn't trade Ibaka. I want him to be around when he's finally the defender that his blocks says he is. I would trade Lamb, Sefalosha and that 1st round pick. What the hell is that pick gonna get? And how useful is Thabo next to Westbrook? I'm just trying to think who they could get...

[QUOTE=brandonislegend]I dont think you are understanding if they ran a real system Westbrook would not be successful. It would be like putting Shaq on the Suns when they were still running, it doesnt fit because he is too stupid all he is is athleticism that's why he isolates he doesnt understand the game.[/QUOTE]
Is that a fact or your baseless opinion? I am sure an NBA all-star with scoring and passing skill can't adapt to change. Afterall, they get paid 100+ million to be stubborn and one-dimensional. They are not scrubs, they can handle different systems, ball movement isn't magic.

[QUOTE=Whoah10115] I'm just trying to think who they could get...[/QUOTE]

Darren Collison? DJ Augustine,Jameer Nelson and Andre Miller they say seems to be unhappy being a back up for Denver

[QUOTE=Whoah10115] And how useful is Thabo next to Westbrook? [/QUOTE]

Defending Kobe? Defending Paul?

If Brooks didn't make that change of Thabo guarding Parker from Game 3, no way they would have beaten the Spurs.

Westbrook cannot guard Kobe/Paul/Parker 1 on 1 despite his athleticism and if they can't control them, OKC ain't getting to the Finals!

[QUOTE=brandonislegend]Honest question do you really think with westbricks ego he would agree to give up the PG spot?[/QUOTE]



This is my issue, and I posted it just before you did. If there's another PG then Durant will be that PG's first option. It wouldn't go thru Westbrook's discretion. He may be stupid on the court, but he's not stupid enough not to know that. And he doesn't want that.


[QUOTE=brandonislegend]They never played with Kevin Durant or James Harden.[/QUOTE]



True, but they never outplayed both of them in the NBA Finals either. Westbrook was, by far, OKC's best player in the Finals.

that Maynor injury is hurting OKC. i mean Harden was pretty good in the 4th quarter decision making last 2 years for them but OKC really used Maynor for much of that prior to Harden breaking out the last year or two. Maynor is a true point guard and can calm down the team with his poise and playmaking. His injury is a huge loss for them if he cant recover. Reggie Jackson aint the same or is too far from developing into that PG that OKC needs.

If Maynor is healthy, i dont think you see Russ handling the rock as much as he is doing right now.

It's interesting that OKC chose Westbrook over Harden because of his position and relative importance to the team. However, it's starting to look like Harden is both a better scorer and playamker, and OKC may have been better off just plugging in a veteran shooter at PG and letting Harden and Durant take turns on offense.

[QUOTE=Celtic_Pride]Defending Kobe? Defending Paul?

If Brooks didn't make that change of Thabo guarding Parker from Game 3, no way they would have beaten the Spurs.

Westbrook cannot guard Kobe/Paul/Parker 1 on 1 despite his athleticism and if they can't control them, OKC ain't getting to the Finals![/QUOTE]
Westbrook was the one guarding Parker in 4th quarters, his D on Paul in 4th/Overtime won them the game vs Clippers this season.

And LOL at Thabo guarding Kobe, Bryant took a shit on him last year, Durant was switched on Kobe in 4th quarters and bothered him with his length. Thabo gets posted up and owned by Kobe.

Sefalosha is such an overrated defender, he is useless vs Kobe/Lebron on top of being a non factor offensively. He can only pick on small guys like CP3/Parker. :oldlol:

You can get a better defender with more offense, Arron Afflalo perhaps.

[QUOTE=Graviton]Westbrook was the one guarding Parker in 4th quarters, his D on Paul in 4th/Overtime won them the game vs Clippers this season.

And LOL at Thabo guarding Kobe, Bryant took a shit on him last year, Durant was switched on Kobe in 4th quarters and bothered him with his length. Thabo gets posted up and owned by Kobe.

Sefalosha is such an overrated defender, he is useless vs Kobe/Lebron on top of being a non factor offensively. He can only pick on small guys like CP3/Parker. :oldlol:

You can get a better defender with more offense, Arron Afflalo perhaps.[/QUOTE]

No

Westbrook got shitted on by Parker so bad that Brooks was forced to make that change which saved the series. He did a good job on Bryant as well

Afflalo is not a better defender than Thabo..Just no and how are they getting Afflalo on his current contract?

Westbrook is having the best supporting cast of all the top point guards in this league and you are saying he needs more help :coleman:

[QUOTE=Celtic_Pride]No

Westbrook got shitted on by Parker so bad that Brooks was forced to make that change which saved the series. He did a good job on Bryant as well

Afflalo is not a better defender than Thabo..Just no and how are they getting Afflalo on his current contract?

Westbrook is having the best supporting cast of all the top point guards in this league and you are saying he needs more help :coleman:[/QUOTE]
Paul has better teammates. Besides Durant/Westbrook, who do teams have to fear in the playoffs? Perkins? Ibaka? Thabo? Martin?

You obviously haven't watched lot of OKC games if you think Thabo is so good. :oldlol: How about you take him for Bradley?

I watch OKC entirely unbiased, I don't like or dislike any of their players. And let me tell ya, Westbrook is dumb as a rock, and holding this team.

[QUOTE=Graviton]Paul has better teammates. Besides Durant/Westbrook, who do teams have to fear in the playoffs? Perkins? Ibaka? Thabo? Martin?

You obviously haven't watched lot of OKC games if you think Thabo is so good. :oldlol: How about you take him for Bradley?[/QUOTE]

Hmm who exactly does Paul have who steps up in the playoffs? He basically has to carry their offense all the time

Westbrook's supporting cast >>> Paul's and it's not even close.

Bradley for Thabo? I am in if we are allowed to swap Jeff Green for Kevin Durant!

[QUOTE=andremiller07]Darren Collison? DJ Augustine,Jameer Nelson and Andre Miller they say seems to be unhappy being a back up for Denver[/QUOTE]



I have no more respect for Jameer so I wouldn't look at him. Andre Miller can be perfect anywhere. But I can't see Denver doing anything like that.

Augstine could be worth a shot, but it's a risk. Darren Collison played with Westbrook at UCLA, but he sometimes gets way too ahead of himself. But I think he could work because he is a PG. And he can shoot.


For the most part, I think it's too much of a risk to bring in someone like Nelson or Augustine, because it could upset Westbrook. It's not like if you got Rondo. His whining wouldn't be acceptable then. But, due to play style and due, mostly, to their previous partnership at UCLA, I do think Collison could be a great pickup. It can't happen this season tho. It's gonna have to be in the Summer.

[QUOTE=Celtic_Pride]Defending Kobe? Defending Paul?

If Brooks didn't make that change of Thabo guarding Parker from Game 3, no way they would have beaten the Spurs.

Westbrook cannot guard Kobe/Paul/Parker 1 on 1 despite his athleticism and if they can't control them, OKC ain't getting to the Finals![/QUOTE]



I get that, but he's not a good offensive fit. And I actually think Westbrook could handle himself as a man defender and defend any guard. I'd rather get a slight defensive downgrade in Thabo's place, assuming it's an actual PG. Afflalo is not a good fit, I don't think...he's also not a better defender than Thabo (I know it wasn't you who said that).

[QUOTE=Celtic_Pride]Hmm who exactly does Paul have who steps up in the playoffs? He basically has to carry their offense all the time

Westbrook's supporting cast >>> Paul's and it's not even close.

Bradley for Thabo? I am in if we are allowed to swap Jeff Green for Kevin Durant![/QUOTE]
Paul>Westbrook
Griffin>>>Ibaka
DJ>>>>>Perkins
Crawford>Martin
Butler/Barnes/Hill>Thabo/Liggins
Bledsoe>any OKC backup PG
Odom>any OKC backup PF
Turiaf/Hollins>Thabeet

Westbrook has Durant, Paul has advantages everywhere else. You are on crack if you think Westbrook has a better supporting CAST, supporting PLAYER maybe, but not a ****in CAST. Most would agree.

How about you take back Perkins along with Ibaka, Martin and Thabo and give us KG, Lee, Green, Bradley. OKC has an amazing supporting cast afterall. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Graviton]Paul>Westbrook
Griffin>>>Ibaka
DJ>>>>>Perkins
Crawford>Martin
Butler/Barnes/Hill>Thabo/Liggins
Bledsoe>any OKC backup PG
Odom>any OKC backup PF
Turiaf/Hollins>Thabeet

Westbrook has Durant, Paul has advantages everywhere else. You are on crack if you think Westbrook has a better supporting CAST, supporting PLAYER maybe, but not a ****in CAST. Most would agree.

How about you take back Perkins along with Ibaka, Martin and Thabo and give us KG, Lee, Green, Bradley. OKC has an amazing supporting cast afterall. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Really you didn't even post Durant, he is a top 2 player in the NBA. It's like LeBron you would take him alone over multiple players. But we can agree to disagree, atleast you are using some logical points and not resorting to personal attacks.... :cheers:

Would be more like this IMO
CP3 >> Westbrook
Griffin <<<<< Durant
DJ <<< Ibaka
Crawford=Martin
Butler/Barnes/Hill>Thabo/Liggins
Bledsoe>any OKC backup PG
Odom>any OKC backup PF
Turiaf/Hollins=Thabeet