should dwyane wades resurection/take over/heat streak cost lebron mvp?

[QUOTE=tazb]If (when) LeBron gets MVP he just needs one more Finals MVP to pass Kobe. Kobe-tards are shook.:lol[/QUOTE]


i doubt it..

i'l still take

5 rings
1 mvp
2 finals mvps
4 allstar mvps
11 all nba 1st teams ( nba record ) as of this season
9 all defensive 1st teams ( nba record )
15 consecutive allstar starts ( nba record )
all time scorer a few years from now
all time playoff scorer a year from now
81 point career high ( 2nd best ever )
2nd most 60 point games
3rd most 50 point games
best 15th,16th,17th year player in nba history ( best longevity )
45+ game winning shots ( most ever )


over lebrons 4-10 bogus media popularity mvp awards and his asterisk title or any other by this ring chasing colluding trio

[QUOTE=LikeABosh]WTF you talking about bruh?[/QUOTE]
Just answer the question. Should the MVP be given to:

A. the guy with the best stats in a star-filled team- of course leading to a league best record

or

B. the 1 star in a team that is playing crazy, but does not have the best team record.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]If we make 2 teams.

A. 5 all stars, leading their team to 65-17
B. 1 Star, leading his team to 55-27

Should we give it to the guy in team A with the best stats, or to the 1 star in team B who is playing out of his mind?

This will put the whole thing into perspective.[/QUOTE]
Again who are those teams.Because i dont know a team that has five all stars.

Though lakers starting unit have all been all stars though you cant be talking about lakers since they have more than 27 losses.Miami has 3 all stars and one former allstar thats about it.

You cant be talking about thunder because they are better then 55-27 but worse than 65-17 and RWB is playing better than KD since allstar break.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Right, but again, who else has a case besides Lebron?[/QUOTE]
Chris Paul

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]all i'm trying to do is save the award/ and its history/ the nba's integrity


because if they give lebron the mvp this year. they wont have an argument against giving him the next 5-7.. lebron will finish with 8-10 mvps

because all lebron will have to do is stay on a stacked team and pad his fg% to win the award. no storylines, critera changes will be possible.

if they voted based on "best player".... jordan would have 10 mvps. kobe would have 5 mvps, shaq would have 5 mvps

why is it only lebron gets the benifit of the medias biased treatment[/QUOTE]

As long as Lebron keeps putting up amazing stats and keeps winning alot of games he will keep winning MVPS...

[QUOTE=arifgokcen]Again who are those teams.Because i dont know a team that has five all stars.

Though lakers starting unit have all been all stars though you cant be talking about lakers since they have more than 27 losses.Miami has 3 all stars and one former allstar thats about it.

You cant be talking about thunder because they are better then 55-27 but worse than 65-17 and RWB is playing better than KD since allstar break.[/QUOTE]
Those are not realistic teams. They were made up by me. I just want you to tell me, who would you pick for MVP, if those were the 2 best records in the league.

[QUOTE=tazb]If (when) LeBron gets MVP he just needs one more Finals MVP to pass Kobe. Kobe-tards are shook.:lol[/QUOTE]

:biggums:

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin][B]
how about a guy who doesnt have an mvp yet. and has a ton less help... and plays in a way tougher confrence. and is averaging way more points. and has to overcome a cancerous pg that shoots 40%fg's and takes more shots than him. and who lost their 3rd best player via salary dumping for garbage. and whos one of only a few guys in nba history to have a 50/40/90% season in nba history ( which is nearly impossible to have if you're leading the nba in scoring.. has it even happend before? )

?[/B][/QUOTE]

Cancerous? The guy has been on a tear post all-star break, moreover this last quarter of the season.

[IMG]http://s24.postimage.org/gmrftqa6t/Untitled.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]i doubt it..

i'l still take

5 rings
1 mvp
2 finals mvps
4 allstar mvps
11 all nba 1st teams ( nba record ) as of this season
9 all defensive 1st teams ( nba record )
15 consecutive allstar starts ( nba record )
all time scorer a few years from now
all time playoff scorer a year from now
81 point career high ( 2nd best ever )
2nd most 60 point games
3rd most 50 point games
best 15th,16th,17th year player in nba history ( best longevity )
45+ game winning shots ( most ever )


over lebrons 4-10 bogus media popularity mvp awards and his asterisk title or any other by this ring chasing colluding trio[/QUOTE]


You would take Kobe. But what you would do doesn't mean anything. Anybody with a head on their shoulders would take LeBron over Kobrick. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=ripthekik]Just answer the question. Should the MVP be given to:

A. the guy with the best stats in a star-filled team- of course leading to a league best record

or

B. the 1 star in a team that is playing crazy, but does not have the best team record.[/QUOTE]

Of course the first option A.It has always been the same.If your stats doesnt translate into wins what good is that.

Look at what love did previous seasons.He didnt even get a MVP consideration because of team record.

Look what lebron went through during 2006-2008 seasons when he was amazing and during rose MVP season.

Look at what [B]kobe [/B]went through during his amazing 2005-2006 campaign.

Look at shaq he was the best player with best stats but his teams have never been very successful in RS.

Look what Hakeem went through when he was absolutely scorching every opponent after MJ first retirements.

Look at what MJ went through in his first couple of seasons.

STOP BICKERING dude MVP is predefined best player on one of the best teams.

Look at how Bird got his MVPs.He got three in a row with the one of the most stacked teams in modern history.

Look at how magic got his MVPs.He had a teammate that ranks #2 among all time greats.

Look at bill russell he had 5 HOFs and he still got that many MVPs.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]Those are not realistic teams. They were made up by me. I just want you to tell me, who would you pick for MVP, if those were the 2 best records in the league.[/QUOTE]
I told you look at my last post please and unlike other lebron fans i started liking and watching NBA with kobe so please dont throw some ridiculous accusations my way.I am just explaining the facts you are denying.

Thread was already done.
[url]http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292555[/url]

[QUOTE=ripthekik]Just answer the question. Should the MVP be given to:

A. the guy with the best stats in a star-filled team- of course leading to a league best record

or

B. the 1 star in a team that is playing crazy, but does not have the best team record.[/QUOTE]
Your scenario was ridiculous. You said;
"A. 5 all stars, leading their team to 65-17
B. 1 Star, leading his team to 55-27"
Which two player are you trying to compare?

I've said this since "the descion." LeBron should not win MVP unless Miami wins 70 games, or atleast close to 70 games. When LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluded to join forces, everyone was projecting the team to win close to 70 games, or even surpass the '96 Bulls 72 game game record. But once again, they are going to end up underachieving with worse records than the Cavs in 2009 and 2010 when LeBron won back-to-back MVPs. (I believe James even said himself he didn't think he or Wade would win MVP with them being on the same team.)

In short, with a more talented team, LeBron once again like 2011 (when he rightfully didn't win) is going to have fewer wins, and with worse overall stats.

MVP shouldn't automatically = best player on the team with the most wins. Especially when the team has 3 superstars all in their prime.

Lebron is about as clear cut an MVP as there has been historically. He fits the bill no matter what angle you look at it from. Best player in the league? Lebron. Best player on the best team? Lebron. Guy who does the most for his team? Lebron.

I'm curious- if Lebron isn't the MVP, then who is in your opinion OP?

*Waits for half-baked, convoluted, nonsensical rambling about how Bean deserves it*

[QUOTE=Ne 1]I've said this since "the descion." LeBron should not win MVP unless Miami wins 70 games, or atleast close to 70 games. When LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluded to join forces, everyone was projecting the team to win close to 70 games, or even surpass the '96 Bulls 72 game game record. But once again, they are going to end up underachieving with worse records than the Cavs in 2009 and 2010 when LeBron won back-to-back MVPs. (I believe James even said himself he didn't think he or Wade would win MVP with them being on the same team.)

In short, with a more talented team, LeBron once again like 2011 (when he rightfully didn't win) is going to have fewer wins, and with worse overall stats.

MVP shouldn't automatically = best player on the team with the most wins. Especially when the team has 3 superstars all in their prime.[/QUOTE]
Who's MVP then? The only other candidate close to him is Durant and he has great teammates as well.

[QUOTE=ripthekik]If we make 2 teams.

A. 5 all stars, leading their team to 65-17
B. 1 Star, leading his team to 55-27

Should we give it to the guy in team A with the best stats, or to the 1 star in team B who is playing out of his mind?

This will put the whole thing into perspective.[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing the 1 star is Westbrook? :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Ne 1]I've said this since "the descion." LeBron should not win MVP unless Miami wins 70 games, or atleast close to 70 games. When LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluded to join forces, everyone was projecting the team to win close to 70 games, or even surpass the '96 Bulls 72 game game record. [/QUOTE]

I feel like every year people predict that a team will surpass the Bulls' record. Hell, even World Peace said the Lakers were going for a 73-9 record when they acquired Nash and Howard. I think that turned out just a bit worse than when the Heat acquired Bosh and James :oldlol:

That's a silly benchmark to set for an MVP award. How many teams in NBA history have won 70 games? That's the benchmark for GOAT status, MVP standards are nowhere near that stringent.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]i doubt it..

i'l still take

5 rings
1 mvp
2 finals mvps
4 allstar mvps
11 all nba 1st teams ( nba record ) as of this season
9 all defensive 1st teams ( nba record )
15 consecutive allstar starts ( nba record )
all time scorer a few years from now
all time playoff scorer a year from now
81 point career high ( 2nd best ever )
2nd most 60 point games
3rd most 50 point games
best 15th,16th,17th year player in nba history ( best longevity )
45+ game winning shots ( most ever )


over lebrons 4-10 bogus media popularity mvp awards and his asterisk title or any other by this ring chasing colluding trio[/QUOTE]

2 Finals MVPs + 4 MVPs >> 2 Finals MVPs + 1 MVP. Kobe's been in the league much longer than LeBron so of course he's going to have all of those extra stats.

[QUOTE=tazb]2 Finals MVPs + 4 MVPs >> 2 Finals MVPs + 1 MVP. Kobe's been in the league much longer than LeBron so of course he's going to have all of those extra stats.[/QUOTE]


ya sure... if both players have the same number of championships

but kobe has 3 more championships with averages of

23/5/5
29/7/6
27/6/6

in the playoffs

which is on the same level as any of kareems non finals mvp. a legit star championship

only mj can say he won 3+ rings and won all the fmvps

so ya...

3 star titles by an mvp/fmvp winner > any number of additional season mvps


its more about # of rings by mvps than # of mvps by ring winners

shaq/kobe/hakeem/duncan are all routinely ranked way ahead of moses malone.. who has 3 mvps
















ether taste good?

[QUOTE=LikeABosh]Who's MVP then? The only other candidate close to him is Durant and he has great teammates as well.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Durant (or even Parker before he got injured. Heck, Nash won MVPs with similar numbers) would probably be the best choice. They got it right in 2011 with Rose (although some felt it should have went to Dwight) Won't get into 2012 since that was a lock out season, so the MVP that season will just be a footnote like 1999. But no matter who you go with for MVP this year, it shouldn't be LeBron or Wade. And yes, Durant does have great teammates as well, but the Thunder don't have 3 superstars who are all in their prime, and Westbrook is a great player, but he's no Dwyane Wade, and not to mention they don't have a 3rd option anywhere close to a Chris Bosh.

[QUOTE=Ne 1]I've said this since "the descion." LeBron should not win MVP unless Miami wins 70 games, or atleast close to 70 games. When LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluded to join forces, everyone was projecting the team to win close to 70 games, or even surpass the '96 Bulls 72 game game record. But once again, they are going to end up underachieving with worse records than the Cavs in 2009 and 2010 when LeBron won back-to-back MVPs. (I believe James even said himself he didn't think he or Wade would win MVP with them being on the same team.)

In short, with a more talented team, LeBron once again like 2011 (when he rightfully didn't win) is going to have fewer wins, and with worse overall stats.

MVP shouldn't automatically = best player on the team with the most wins. Especially when the team has 3 superstars all in their prime.[/QUOTE]
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Lebron is about as clear cut an MVP as there has been historically. He fits the bill no matter what angle you look at it from. Best player in the league? Lebron. Best player on the best team? Lebron. Guy who does the most for his team? Lebron.

I'm curious- if Lebron isn't the MVP, then who is in your opinion OP?

*Waits for half-baked, convoluted, nonsensical rambling about how Bean deserves it*[/QUOTE]

He's even more clear cut than Shaq was in 2001 for example..

[QUOTE=G-Funk]He's playing on a stacked team, that was the reason they did not to give more to Shaq & Kobe. MVP award is a JOKE.[/QUOTE]

Kobe deserved 0 MVPs. Duncan and Shaq deserved more though.

just another pathetic kobe stan excuse

[QUOTE=DuMa]just another pathetic kobe stan excuse[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="White"]trolling time LOL[/COLOR]

It's been a real tough go for Kobe groupies as of late. The Heat haven't lost since the Super Bowl. LeBron is locked for a unanimous 4th NBA MVP, and Wade will have his 2nd finals MVP after the playoffs conclude.

Meanwhile, Kobe is clinging onto the 8th seed, while playing with 3 Hall of famers.

Ouch.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]
That's a silly benchmark to set for an MVP award. How many teams in NBA history have won 70 games? That's the benchmark for GOAT status, MVP standards are nowhere near that stringent.[/QUOTE]

It's the bench mark for the 2011 and 2013 Heat team because 2 of the 3 best players in the entire NBA and another top 15-20 player/top 5 player at his position in the NBA all colluded to join forces.

[QUOTE=PJR][COLOR="White"]trolling time LOL[/COLOR]
Meanwhile, Kobe is clinging onto the 8th seed, while playing with 3 Hall of famers.
[/QUOTE]


[COLOR="White"]trolling time LOL[/COLOR]

But he has 5 rings with only 1 HOF teammate per title team. Unmatched in history :cheers:

Keep reaching with them arbitrary benchmarks, playboy. They don't hold any weight. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Ne 1]It's the bench mark for the 2011 and 2013 Heat team because 2 of the 3 best players in the entire NBA and another top 15-20 player/top 5 player at his position in the NBA all colluded to join forces.[/QUOTE]

That's a stupid and arbitrary benchmark, like I already pointed out. Plenty of teams had stacked rosters historically. How many times did Russell's/Bird's Celtics, Magic's/Wilt's/Shaq's Lakers, etc win 70 games? It's only been done once and as coincidence would have it, the best player on that team is universally regarded as the GOAT.

Just because you throw all stars/HOFers on a team, it doesn't automatically guarantee success as we've seen this season with the Lakers (as well as in the past with Rockets when they acquired Pippen and Barkley, and the '04 Lakers... although they at least made the finals, they were crowned by many as the best team ever and a lock to break the wins record when they first came together).

Name one player who has a better case for MVP than Lebron.

Ok, now name me one player who deserves it more than Lebron.
[COLOR="White"]in b4 kobe[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]That's a stupid and arbitrary benchmark, like I already pointed out. Plenty of teams had stacked rosters historically. How many times did Russell's/Bird's Celtics, Magic's/Wilt's Lakers, Shaq's Lakers, etc win 70 games? It's only been done once and as coincidence would have it, the best player on that team is universally regarded as the GOAT.

Just because you throw all stars/MVPs on a team, it doesn't automatically guarantee success as we've seen this season with the Lakers (as well as in the past with Rockets when they acquired Pippen and Barkley, and the '04 Lakers... although they at least made the finals, they were crowned by many as the best team ever and a lock to break the wins record when they first came together).

Name one player who has a better case for MVP than Lebron.[/QUOTE]

Dude thats the problem he cant.

riphtetik after my post got scared and couldnt answer just like this guy he just like other trolls chooses to ignore the posts he doesnt like or he ignores posts that he cant answer

Make an argument for a player over Lebron for MVP. I'll wait

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]
2005 nash ( best player duncan*kobe injured )

[/QUOTE]

**** your a little faggo't pointing out the kobe was injured as if that makes any difference you little ****

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]i mean common.. the heat are a near 60 win team without lebron

more deserving guys out there with less help

its not the "most efficient per of the year award" or "best player award"


its the most valuable player to your team award... lebron isnt as valuable as many others to his respective team[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]theres a difference between great and unbeatable

if heat break that 33 game win streak... i dont think lebron should ever win another mvp... hes only averaging 26ppg... his rebounds and assists arnt much better than any other year

its just his fg% that people are saying hes having his best season for. and who wouldnt shoot a high fg% on a team that could win 60 games without its best player[/QUOTE]
Almost every single word of those two posts is beyond stupid.


[QUOTE]How many times has the best player in the league won the MVP over the last 25 years?

2003 duncan ( best player kobe )[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: Good one.

[QUOTE]i am .. it isnt fair for guys like kobe/hakeem/shaq who should all have multiple mvps[/QUOTE]
And right there you expose yourself. Another thread for you to bitch about LeBron while sucking Kobe's d**k.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]
how about a guy who doesnt have an mvp yet. and has a ton less help... and plays in a way tougher confrence. and is averaging way more points. and has to overcome a cancerous pg that shoots 40%fg's and takes more shots than him. and who lost their 3rd best player via salary dumping for garbage. and whos one of only a few guys in nba history to have a 50/40/90% season ( which is nearly impossible to have if you're leading the nba in scoring.. has it even happend before? )
[/QUOTE]
Durant's played like absolute shit for a month now. Any case he had for the MVP is long, long gone. Westbrook has been OKC's best player (and by a pretty big margin) for a month.

[QUOTE]all i'm trying to do is save the award/ and its history/ the nba's integrity[/QUOTE]
Bullshit. All you're doing is trying to discredit LeBron while also bitching about Kobe not having more MVP's.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]i doubt it..

i'l still take

over lebrons 4-10 bogus media popularity mvp awards and his asterisk title or any other by this ring chasing colluding trio[/QUOTE]
:roll: LeBron's not winning the MVP because he's so popular. He's winning it because he's that damn good and far and away the best player in the league. And asterisk title? Does the NBA's official record books list that title with an asterisk next to it? Or is that just something else you've convinced yourself of regardless of how stupid it is?


You're the posterboy for ridiculous ISH stans. There's some other stupid stans that post on here more frequently, but you're easily the worst one...or best depending on how you look at it.

[QUOTE=PJR][COLOR="White"]trolling time LOL[/COLOR]

It's been a real tough go for Kobe groupies as of late. The Heat haven't lost since the Super Bowl. LeBron is locked for a unanimous 4th NBA MVP, and Wade will have his 2nd finals MVP after the playoffs conclude.
Meanwhile, Kobe is clinging onto the 8th seed, while playing with 3 Hall of famers.

Ouch.[/QUOTE]

I agree except I say its 75% chance Lebron wins finals mvp if heat win cause he probably leads team in rebounding and assists and first or 2nd in scoring also.

[QUOTE=Nezty]How you gonna compare those shit Heat teams to the one they have now? Without Lebron this Heat team is just as good. They have great role players and would have Wade and Bosh with bigger roles.

U are a fool if u think Heat would be as good without Lebron. The Cavs won 60 games with Just Lebron and bunch of role players. Not a knock on Wade but he didnt make team better like Lebron did when they were on own teams same with Bosh.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]That's a stupid and arbitrary benchmark, like I already pointed out. Plenty of teams had stacked rosters historically. How many times did Russell's/Bird's Celtics, Magic's/Wilt's/Shaq's Lakers, etc win 70 games? It's only been done once and as coincidence would have it, the best player on that team is universally regarded as the GOAT.

Just because you throw all stars/HOFers on a team, it doesn't automatically guarantee success as we've seen this season with the Lakers (as well as in the past with Rockets when they acquired Pippen and Barkley, and the '04 Lakers... although they at least made the finals, they were crowned by many as the best team ever and a lock to break the wins record when they first came together).

Name one player who has a better case for MVP than Lebron.[/QUOTE]

LeBron himself said he didn't think he or Wade would win MVP playing on the same team together. I'm just agreeing with LeBron. As I said, the media got it right in 2011 when they didn't give it to Wade or LeBron, neither of them should win MVP on the same team together unless they are historically good, which the 2011 weren't and the 2012 Heat aren't. Forgot 70 games, they won't even win 60 games and they have more talent than any of the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_teams_by_single_season_win_percentage"]teams with the all-time best regular season winning percentages in the NBA history[/URL].

:roll: @ comparing the '13 Lakers, '99 Rockets and '04 Lakers to the '11 Heat and '13 Heat. Talk about reaching.

:roll:

Wade finally starts playing like he should, and "people" (in quotes because i'm not sure if the OP counts as a real fan) start going nuts about it.

I guess that just shows you how poorly Wade has been playing. People have very low expectations for him now after last year's regular season and playoffs (minus Indiana series).

This is a really pathetic thread and I'm surprised it hasn't been locked/deleted yet smh. :facepalm