Although I think KG deserved FMVP, that doesn't mean PP had a bad finals. I'd say it's easily Kobe's '10 FMVP.
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Although I think KG deserved FMVP, that doesn't mean PP had a bad finals. I'd say it's easily Kobe's '10 FMVP.
[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]I just looked at the numbers and Ray was much better than I remember. Ray put up numbers, much more efficiently. The only big difference is Pierce's assists and turnovers are much higher.
Big 4 stats, finals only:
Garnett - 18.2 ppg / 13 reb / 3 ast / 1.7 stl / 1 blk / 2.7 to on 42.9 fg% / 76 ft%
Rondo - 9.3 ppg / 3.8 reb / 6.7 ast / 1.5 stl / .5 blk / 1.5 to on 37.7 fg% / 59.3 ft%
Pierce - 21.8 ppg / 4.5 reb / 6.3 ast / 1.2 stl / .3 blk / 3.7 to on 43.2 fg% / 39.3 3pt% / 83 ft%
Ray - 20.3 ppg / 5 reb / 2.5 ast / 1.3 stl / .7 blk / 1.8 to on 50.7 fg% / 52.4 3pt% / 86.7 ft%
I'd still give it to KG... Plus I think KG was the leader of the Celtics in scoring through all the playoffs that year.[/QUOTE]
With those numbers and being the true defensive anchor, I concur, KG should have won.
But still, Raygun with the 52% threes? I think his line is better than Pierce's and he didn't lay an egg in one of the games like Pierce did.
Tony parker in 07. It was the easiest path ever against a much less talented team in the Cavs.
Not saying he's a bad player.
[QUOTE=NumberSix]Although I think KG deserved FMVP, that doesn't mean PP had a bad finals. I'd say it's easily Kobe's '10 FMVP.[/QUOTE]
If you think this:
Pierce - 21.8 ppg / 4.5 reb / 6.3 ast / 1.2 stl / .3 blk / 3.7 to on 43.2 fg% / 39.3 3pt% / 83 ft%
Is better than this:
Bryant - 28.6 ppg / 8.0 reb / 3.9 ast / 2.1 stl / 0.7 blk / 3.9 to on 40.5 fg% / 31.9 3pt% / 88.3 ft%
- also taking into account Kobe outrebounded everyone on the opposing team (including the opposing PF and Center), you're a fool.
[QUOTE=Ne 1]If you consider the '80s as the start of the modern era, then it's easily Cedric Maxwell and Chauncey Billups.
:oldlol: @ Kobe in '10. Even most people were saying that even if the Lakers had lost that series that Kobe could get the Finals MVP award ala Jerry West when he lost in the Finals, but still won MVP in '69.
Kobe limited Rondo big time. Everyone was proclaiming him the best PG in the game before that series. Other than one game, he never went off. The one game he did, Kobe was in foul trouble.
I don't think most people realize how tough it is for a guard to get 15 rebounds. Kobe came up huge in game 7. Who kept the team in perspective the whole series? Kobe and Fisher. If you pay attention to those press conferences, Kobe was sending a message to the team. Gasol mentioned this.
Kobe disrupted the most important player on the other team (Rondo). Rondo is the engine that made the Celtics run. Kobe turned him into the Little Engine that Couldn't.
The bottom line is that nobody shot well for their positions. Kobe's FG% in game 7 is the only reason this is a discussion. Regardless his overall stats are by far the best. And I said before it's based purely on numbers without the biases and agendas found on ISH. I know Kobe detractors really wanted Gasol to win it, but his numbers although good for him, aren't Kobe's.
29 PTS 8.0 REBS 5 AST 2.14 STL[/QUOTE]:applause:
I concur with everything you said. Gasol was great on that Finals but Kobe deserved it. He work hard for it as the other players did.
kobe coz his ring and eventually FMVP was gifted by the refs.
How is Kobe's finals MVP any worse than Chauncey Billups :oldlol:
Kobe vs Gasol game by game stats in the finals.
Game 1
Kobe -30,7,6 10-22 FG 1 stl 1 blk
Gasol-23,14,3 8-14 FG 1 stl 1 blk
Game 2
Kobe-21,5,6 8-20 FG 4 stl 0 blk
Gasol-25,8,3 7-10 FG 1 stl 6 blk
Game 3
Kobe-29,7,4 10-29 FG 2 stl 3 blk
Gasol-13,10,4 5-11 FG 0 stl 2 blk
Game 4
Kobe -33,6,2 10-22 FG 2 stl 0 blk
Gasol-21,6,3 6-13 FG 0 stl 2 blk
Game 5
Kobe-38,5,4 13-27 FG 1 stl 1 blk
Gasol-12,12,0 5-12 FG 2 stl 0 blk
Game 6
Kobe -26,11,3 9-19 FG 4 stl 0 blk
Gasol-17,12,9 6-14 FG 1 stl 3 blk
Game 7
Kobe -23,15,2 6-24 FG 1 stl 0 blk
Gasol-19,18,4 6-16 FG 0 stl 2 blk
So I fail to see how Gasol deserved the MVP over Kobe considering Kobe was the more consistent player and better all around player. Not saying that Gasol didn't do his thing but if somehow Gasol was named the 2010 Finals MVP he'd be one of the weakest finals MVP performances so the haters logic doesn't even make sense :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]KG deserved it, but they gave it to Pierce as a 'you stayed on this team forever' thing.
Kobe's in 2010 was terrible though.[/QUOTE]
Pierce deserved that MVP for what he did on both ends of the floor....
So is this supposed to be about "worst Finals MVP performance" or "worst player to win Finals MVP"? Because from some of the responses, it appears that some of the people replying don't know.
Let's change the topic to "which current superstar choked in the Finals the most often and lost?"
Has to be 2006 Dwayne Wade.
Refs were totally robbed of that MVP that Finals. Crawford, Javey, Bavetta were all more deserving.
[QUOTE=cotdt]Let's change the topic to "which current superstar choked in the Finals the most often and lost?"[/QUOTE]
IMO, a choke is losing when you should have won. Like, Durant didn't by any means choke last season. Harden certainly did. LeBron choked in 2011, but not in 2007. Kobe didn't choke in 2008. The Celtics were the better team. He did however choke/chuck in 2004. The Lakers really should have won that series.
[QUOTE=NumberSix]IMO, a choke is losing when you should have won. Like, Durant didn't by any means choke last season. Harden certainly did. LeBron choked in 2011, but not in 2007. Kobe didn't choke in 2008. The Celtics were the better team. [B]He did however choke/chuck in 2004. The Lakers really should have won that series.[/B][/QUOTE]
They had no chance as soon as Malone went down.
[QUOTE=longtime lurker]They had no chance as soon as Malone went down.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry man he knows that, he is a big lakers fan after all :roll:
Re: What is the worst finals MVP performance in modern history?
Answer: Who gives a f@ck, you dumb motherf@#kers. I'll take the ten worst finals MVP performances if it means ten rings. Goddamn, you people are idiots.
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Kobe 2010 didn't deserve it. Gasol shoulda gotten it.
[/QUOTE]
Why?
Because he had better stats?
How about the 3 road games. Letting Big Baby dominate in game 4. Padding his stats in game 1 (with Kobe resting in the 4th), shooting below 47% in the last 5 games of the series. Shooting 6 for 16 in the game 7.
Gimme a break!
[QUOTE=longtime lurker]They had no chance as soon as [B]Malone[/B] went down.[/QUOTE]
Its amazing its always Shaq's fault or Malone's fault when Kobe chucks away 38%FG & looses.
Kobe CHOKED!. Just admit it.
Kobe'tards are indeed FULL RETARDS!
[QUOTE=NumberSix]IMO, a choke is losing when you should have won. Like, Durant didn't by any means choke last season. Harden certainly did. LeBron choked in 2011, but not in 2007. Kobe didn't choke in 2008. [B]The Celtics were the better team[/B]. He did however choke/chuck in 2004. [B]The Lakers really should have won that series.[/B][/QUOTE]
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
2008 LALs were PICKED as FAVORITES to win the series (HINT: Season MVP was playing for Lakers in his prime. LAL had seasoned veteran NBA Finals coach in Phil J vs Doc Rivers a rookie finalist)
2008 Lakers were PICKED to win it all in 6 games. BOS were only suppose to give them a tough fight.
1. Lebron 2012, 2. Wade 2006
Worst? I can't call an MVP winner worst.
But Parker's was the least impressive. Billups was average. Kobe deserve his. He was still the best player of that series. Gasol was very good but not as good. A lot of people here don't value leadership. Kobe was the leader.
[QUOTE=gengiskhan]Its amazing its always Shaq's fault or Malone's fault when Kobe chucks away 38%FG & looses.
Kobe CHOKED!. Just admit it.
Kobe'tards are indeed FULL RETARDS![/QUOTE]
Shaq was real upset at Kobe that season especially after that false rape incident
[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]I just looked at the numbers and Ray was much better than I remember. Ray put up numbers, much more efficiently. The only big difference is Pierce's assists and turnovers are much higher.
Big 4 stats, finals only:
Garnett - 18.2 ppg / 13 reb / 3 ast / 1.7 stl / 1 blk / 2.7 to on 42.9 fg% / 76 ft%
Rondo - 9.3 ppg / 3.8 reb / 6.7 ast / 1.5 stl / .5 blk / 1.5 to on 37.7 fg% / 59.3 ft%
Pierce - 21.8 ppg / 4.5 reb / 6.3 ast / 1.2 stl / .3 blk / 3.7 to on 43.2 fg% / 39.3 3pt% / 83 ft%
Ray - 20.3 ppg / 5 reb / 2.5 ast / 1.3 stl / .7 blk / 1.8 to on 50.7 fg% / 52.4 3pt% / 86.7 ft%
I'd still give it to KG... Plus I think KG was the leader of the Celtics in scoring through all the playoffs that year.[/QUOTE]
I honestly thought Allen was the Finals MVP, by a slight margin. Hell, they could have split that into 3 for Garnett too.
And offensively, Allen's contributions was more "impact" in the Finals than Pierce was.
2008 season and 09 season, they were neck-in-neck. But Allen declined 2010-present, while Pierce has still been good since.
[QUOTE=Ne 1]If you consider the '80s as the start of the modern era, then it's easily Cedric Maxwell and Chauncey Billups.
:oldlol: @ Kobe in '10. Even most people were saying that even if the Lakers had lost that series that Kobe could get the Finals MVP award ala Jerry West when he lost in the Finals, but still won MVP in '69.
Kobe limited Rondo big time. Everyone was proclaiming him the best PG in the game before that series. Other than one game, he never went off. The one game he did, Kobe was in foul trouble.
I don't think most people realize how tough it is for a guard to get 15 rebounds. Kobe came up huge in game 7. Who kept the team in perspective the whole series? Kobe and Fisher. If you pay attention to those press conferences, Kobe was sending a message to the team. Gasol mentioned this.
Kobe disrupted the most important player on the other team (Rondo). Rondo is the engine that made the Celtics run. Kobe turned him into the Little Engine that Couldn't.
The bottom line is that nobody shot well for their positions. Kobe's FG% in game 7 is the only reason this is a discussion. Regardless his overall stats are by far the best. And I said before it's based purely on numbers without the biases and agendas found on ISH. I know Kobe detractors really wanted Gasol to win it, but his numbers although good for him, aren't Kobe's.
29 PTS 8.0 REBS 5 AST 2.14 STL[/QUOTE]
This.
Barely anyone actually thinks Gasol deserved it over Kobe. Kobe detractors on ISH are really the ones who try to say that.
[QUOTE=willds09]1. Lebron 2012, 2. Wade 2006[/QUOTE]
Stop being whack.
[QUOTE=NumberSix] LeBron choked in 2011, but not in 2007. Kobe didn't choke in 2008. The Celtics were the better team. He did however choke/chuck in 2004. The Lakers really should have won that series.[/QUOTE]
In that '07 series LeBron averaged 22 ppg, 7 rpg, 6.8 apg, but he shot 35.6%(20% on 3's and 69% from the line) while averaging 5.8 turnovers per game and 22.5 shots per game.
Come on, that's as bad as Kobe's 2004 series, especially when you consider the fact that LeBron's team was swept and the '04 Pistons are very arguably the GOAT defensive team. Granted, Kobe's team was favored to win while Lebron's wasn't, but Lebron's series was so far below what you expect from him. Also the Lakers losing wasn't all Kobe's fault despite what the detractors say. The rest of the team outside of Shaq shoot 33%, Malone was injured, Shaq played lazy defensively and on the boards, Payton was just atrocious on both ends of the floor and the Lakers had a weak bench. The biggest blow-out loss came in the game where he only had 13 shots, so it definitely wasn't just him "chucking" for being the reason they lost the series.
The Lakers should have won in 2004? I thought they were beat in 5 and that the one game they won (the Kobe 3) was them stealing victory from the jaws of defeat. They were BEAT in every single game. No, they shouldn't have really won that series. Payton sucked and Malone wasn't able to walk. They got destroyed by a vastly superior team.
[QUOTE=willds09]1. Lebron 2012, 2. Wade 2006[/QUOTE]
3. Melo. Oh wait. :lol
Kobe. a rapist should never be MVP. sets a bad example to kids.
[QUOTE=Ne 1]In that '07 series LeBron averaged 22 ppg, 7 rpg, 6.8 apg, but he shot 35.6%(20% on 3's and 69% from the line) while averaging 5.8 turnovers per game and 22.5 shots per game.
Come on, that's as bad as Kobe's 2004 series, especially when you consider the fact that LeBron's team was swept and the '04 Pistons are very arguably the GOAT defensive team. Granted, Kobe's team was favored to win while Lebron's wasn't, but Lebron's series was so far below what you expect from him. Also the Lakers losing wasn't all Kobe's fault despite what the detractors say. The rest of the team outside of Shaq shoot 33%, Malone was injured, Shaq played lazy defensively and on the boards, Payton was just atrocious on both ends of the floor and the Lakers had a weak bench. The biggest blow-out loss came in the game where he only had 13 shots, so it definitely wasn't just him "chucking" for being the reason they lost the series.[/QUOTE]
this. :applause:
[QUOTE=Rysio]07 parker
04 billups
[B]05 duncan[/B]
08 pierce
12 lebron
96 jordan[/QUOTE]
When it REALLY, REALLY COUNTS:
Duncan's game 7:
"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "[B]But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us[/B]."
"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "[B]Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight[/B]."
"[B]He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship[/B]," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."
"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.
"[B]A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him[/B]," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."
[url]http://www.nba.com/games/20050623/DETSAS/recap.html[/url]
Compared to Kobe's game 7:
"... [B]the more I tried to push, the more it kept getting away from me[/B].
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]6/24 in Game 7.[/QUOTE]
15 rebounds in game 7, FROM A SHOOTING GUARD playing against THE BEST REBOUNDING PG IN THE LEAGUE not to mention he shut down Ray Allen:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
In otherwords, the GOAT rebounding performance by an SG in the finals
[QUOTE=jlip]^This^
I believe that was one of those, "highest scoring avg. = MVP" quick decisions. It's not that Pierce was a bad choice. It was just that it was by no means clear cut and very debatable.[/QUOTE]
How about Tony Parker? He's lucky Duncan let him go on his one man wrecking crew mode.
It was a dream match up for Parker who only had to guard scrubs like boobie Gibson and complacent Larry Hughes.
[QUOTE=rmt]
"[B]Ron Artest was the most valuable player tonight[/B]," Phil Jackson said. "He brought life to our team."
[url]http://www.webcitation.org/5wfrwRtjY[/url][/QUOTE]
Great, lets give the MVP to World Peace then :hammerhead: :hammerhead:
people discussing the 08 finals and declaring pierce's fmvp as shaky based purely on the numbers arent even getting the full picture- ray also played insanely good defense on kobe in 4th quarters, like some of the best d thats ever been played on kobe. ray should have been fmvp, most people felt like that at the time as well....
[QUOTE=Ne 1][B]In that '07 series LeBron averaged 22 ppg, 7 rpg, 6.8 apg, but he shot 35.6%(20% on 3's and 69% from the line) while averaging 5.8 turnovers per game and 22.5 shots per game.
Come on, that's as bad as Kobe's 2004 series[/B], especially when you consider the fact that LeBron's team was swept and the '04 Pistons are very arguably the GOAT defensive team. Granted, Kobe's team was favored to win while Lebron's wasn't, but Lebron's series was so far below what you expect from him. Also the Lakers losing wasn't all Kobe's fault despite what the detractors say. The rest of the team outside of Shaq shoot 33%, Malone was injured, Shaq played lazy defensively and on the boards, Payton was just atrocious on both ends of the floor and the Lakers had a weak bench. The biggest blow-out loss came in the game where he only had 13 shots, so it definitely wasn't just him "chucking" for being the reason they lost the series.[/QUOTE]
No, it isn't. You're just quoting stats. No context of what actually happened.
LeBron was option #1, #2, #3, #4, etc...
SAS could afford to load up all their defensive effort on to 1 player because they didn't have to respect any other player on the Cavs. That context matters.
Cleveland had no business being competitive in that series, and they werent. They should have been swept just like they were. It's not like they under performed.
[QUOTE=NumberSix]Although I think KG deserved FMVP, that doesn't mean PP had a bad finals. I'd say it's easily Kobe's '10 FMVP.[/QUOTE]
This Troll and his hate for Kobe :facepalm
No doubt KG deserved that FMVP. Ray over PP is just :lol
[QUOTE=ZaaaaaH]This Troll and his hate for Kobe :facepalm
No doubt KG deserved that FMVP. Ray over PP is just :lol[/QUOTE]
How is it "hate"?
Kobe '10 is a pretty popular response in here. It's not just "Kobe haters". It's obviously a common and perfect reasonable opinion.
And the KG thing, you obviously agree. So, where's the "hate"?
[QUOTE=NumberSix]How is it "hate"?
Kobe '10 is a pretty common response in here. It's not just "Kobe haters". It's obviously a valid and perfect reasonable opinion.
And the KG thing, you obviously agree. So, where's the "hate"?[/QUOTE]
Im not even just talking about this thread. You are bias towards Kobe no matter what the topic is .
Kobe '10 [B][U]EASILY[/U][/B] having the Worst Finals GTFO. Either you really hate Kobe or you just dont watch basketball.
[QUOTE=ZaaaaaH]Im not even just talking about this thread. [B]You are bias towards Kobe no matter what the topic is .[/B]
Kobe '10 [B][U]EASILY[/U][/B] having the Worst Finals GTFO. Either you really hate Kobe or you just dont watch basketball.[/QUOTE]
I actually defend Kobe quite a lot too. It's not my fault if you only want to pay attention to the negative.
The trolling in this thread has reached epic proportions. I guess that's to be expected with the Lakers getting into the playoffs now and all the haters crawling out from under the woodworks.
Here are the stats for the FMVPs since 00
PTS R A S B FG%
00 - Shaq - 38.0 16.7 2.3 1.0 2.7 61%
01 - Shaq - 33.0 15.8 4.8 0.4 3.4 57%
02 - Shaq - 36.3 12.3 3.8 0.5 2.8 59%
03 - Duncan - 24.2 17.0 5.3 1.0 5.3 49%
04 - Billups - 21.0 3.2 5.2 1.2 0.0 51%
05 - Duncan - 20.6 14.1 2.1 0.4 2.1 42%
06 - Wade - 34.7 7.8 3.8 2.7 1.0 47%
07 - Parker - 24.5 5.0 3.3 0.8 0.0 57%
08 - Pierce - 21.8 4.5 6.3 1.2 0.3 43%
09 - Kobe - 32.4 5.6 7.4 1.4 1.4 43%
10 - Kobe - 28.6 8.0 3.9 2.1 0.7 41%
11 - Dirk - 26.0 9.7 2.0 0.7 0.7 42%
12 - Lebron - 28.6 10.2 7.4 1.6 0.4 47%
Lets look at this purely from a STATISTICAL stand point. Are you really telling me that 10 Kobe has worse stats than 11 Dirk? I guess everyone is picking on 10 Kobes FG%. How about Duncan in 05? 42% as a PF? Or Pierce in 08? Kobe had the points and the rebounds in 10. Yes his FG% was poor but that was against a GREAT Boston D lets not forget.
I'd say Dirk 11 Duncan 05 and Pierce 08 all had worse STATISTICAL FMVP statistics.