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[QUOTE=step_back]Germans can't take a self deprecating joke. They've never been known for their sense of humor.[/QUOTE]
WW2 jokes just get old after a while. At first it was funny. But you have no idea how many ****ing times I have to listen to around English people. I was born decades after WW2. **** Margaret Thatcher and **** insecure Tommies who keep bringing it up. :lol
[QUOTE=rufuspaul]How so? Do you want England to return to the days of the late 70s? Was Labour doing a decent job?[/QUOTE]
The 70s was a depressing place everywhere but Thatcher made it even worse.
She destroyed the manufacturing industry, she hated miners, she despised the poor. She was a barbaric bitch who sucked that jackass Reagan's ****.
[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Don't the Brits hate Tony Blair just as much or more?? Seems to me you all have short-term memory.[/QUOTE]
Only the ******* who judge Blair over Iraq and nothing else. People with a balanced view know he done a lot of good.
[QUOTE=K
RIP to the greatest modern leader. You are now with Jesus Margaret.
[QUOTE=pinhead]Only the ******* who judge Blair over Iraq and nothing else. People with a balanced view [B]know he done a lot of good[/B].[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=pinhead]Stop whining you punkass biatch. I have nothing against the modern day young German but just admit your grandparents/great grandparents were 24 carat gold jackasses[/QUOTE]
All of your posts are making you come off as some kind of salty-ass limey. Take that cactus out of your ass.
[QUOTE=GreatGreg]All of your posts are making you come off as some kind of salty-ass limey. Take that cactus out of your ass.[/QUOTE]
Who the hell are you? Keep out of my business, buttmuncher.
[QUOTE=pinhead]Who the hell are you? Keep out of my business, buttmuncher.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:
If you want anyone to take your opinion seriously, at least post one sentence without a personal insult in it.
[QUOTE=GreatGreg]:roll: :roll: :roll:
If you want anyone to take your opinion seriously, at least post one sentence without a personal insult in it.[/QUOTE]
I some what feel him though, Thatcher is not an icon of greatness, at least not if you know some history.
There's a great reason why the working class in the UK are disgusted by this lady, instead of writing BS here I would rather like to see people read some about Thatcher.
[QUOTE=millwad]I some what feel him though, Thatcher is not an icon of greatness, at least not if you know some history.
There's a great reason why the working class in the UK are disgusted by this lady, instead of writing BS here I would rather like to see people read some about Thatcher.[/QUOTE]
Good point and well said.
I don't know where you are from but American jackasses like Greg are brainwashed by right wing bullshit propaganda like fox news and that piece of turd O'Reilly.
Some of you assclowns make me want to throw up.
[QUOTE=HarryCallahan]:roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
Is that all you got biatch? Take Iraq out of it and Blair is by far the greatest British PM since Churchill. He probably still is.
[QUOTE=pinhead]Good point and well said.
I don't know where you are from but American jackasses like Greg are brainwashed by right wing bullshit propaganda like fox news and that piece of turd O'Reilly.
Some of you assclowns make me want to throw up.[/QUOTE]
Actually, idiot, I identify myself as a Independent libertarian. Think small & constitution adhering government, free markets, and foreign peace.
No, Thatcher wasn't a perfect politician. But her vehement defending of liberty and the free market, essentials in a developed nation such as the UK, should not go unnoticed by people like you.
[QUOTE=GreatGreg]Actually, idiot, I identify myself as a Independent libertarian. Think small & constitution adhering government, free markets, and foreign peace.
No, Thatcher wasn't a perfect politician. But her vehement defending of liberty and the free market, essentials in a developed nation such as the UK, should not go unnoticed by people like you.[/QUOTE]
Foreign peace? What frickin world are you living in, son? This is real life biatch not Hollywood.
She took from the poor and gave to the rich(her own pocket), Anybody that attended a football match was an automatic hooligan in this hag's eyes, She privatised everything and made the working class suffer, She all but brought down the NHS.
And don't tell me what should go unnoticed you absolute cretin.
[QUOTE=pinhead]Foreign peace? What frickin world are you living in, son? This is real life biatch not Hollywood.
She took from the poor and gave to the rich(her own pocket), Anybody that attended a football match was an automatic hooligan in this hag's eyes, She privatised everything and made the working class suffer, She all but brought down the NHS.
And don't tell me what should go unnoticed you absolute cretin.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
Clearly, what we have here is an out-of-touch with reality leftist who can't back what he says. Once again, I really don't think we should take his opinion seriously.
[QUOTE=GreatGreg]:facepalm
Clearly, what we have here is an out-of-touch with reality leftist who can't back what he says. Once again, I really don't think we should take his opinion seriously.[/QUOTE]
What a jackass :roll:
I could make a list of all the shit she put this country through but it will not make a bit of difference to a dumbass like you.
I doubt you even know who Thatcher is, and if you do you only know her through that punk ass biatch Reagan, who you probably thought was a great US president.
You should seriously stay out of threads you know jackshit about, punk
[QUOTE=pinhead]What a jackass :roll:
I could make a list of all the shit she put this country through but it will not make a bit of difference to a dumbass like you.
I doubt you even know who Thatcher is, and if you do you only know her through that punk ass biatch Reagan, [B]who you probably thought was a great US president[/B].
You should seriously stay out of threads you know jackshit about, punk[/QUOTE]
He was. Give me reasons why he wasn't.
[QUOTE=GreatGreg]He was. Give me reasons why he wasn't.[/QUOTE]
That piece of shit supported Argentina in the falklands. That is all I need to know that he is a punk ass biatch.
[QUOTE=pinhead]Foreign peace? What frickin world are you living in, son? This is real life biatch not Hollywood.
She took from the poor and gave to the rich(her own pocket), Anybody that attended a football match was an automatic hooligan in this hag's eyes, She privatised everything and made the working class suffer, She all but brought down the NHS.
And don't tell me what should go unnoticed you absolute cretin.[/QUOTE]
Oh I get it now. So you're a working class Labourite who feels hating on the Tories is akin to national duty. Makes sense now.
[QUOTE=K
[QUOTE=GreatGreg]Actually, idiot, I identify myself as a Independent libertarian. Think small & constitution adhering government, free markets, and foreign peace.
No, Thatcher wasn't a perfect politician. But her vehement defending of liberty and the free market, essentials in a developed nation such as the UK, should not go unnoticed by people like you.[/QUOTE]
It's funny. He's trying to insult you by saying you watch Bill O' Reilly when he's using the same tactics (insults, inferred raising of voice) as Bill O' Reilly in this thread.
Also you can tell he's very ignorant with the Reagan and Fox News BS. But not after he tells you that you're ignorant.
All the people celebrating her death are those that have no jobs and do nothing as there are pictures of people celebrating during the day time.
[QUOTE=rufuspaul]England was a disgrace in the late 70s. Thatcher came in and took the country back from labor union thugs and made the UK relevant on the world stage again. She wasn't perfect by any means but she was so much better than what the left was offering at the time.[/QUOTE]
Very true. Future rep.
As a working class northerner who's grown up around miners families directly affected by Thatcher's regime I find it very hard to believe I'm seeing people defend her. It genuinely beggars belief.
I think a lot of you would change your mind about her if you'd lived in England at the time. Well, that is unless you're all loaded & money's no object.
WOW
Ive never seen anyone getting so much heat after passing away. In Liverpool they are giving free pints in bars, in Scotland and Ireland it looks like they just won the WORLD Cup. Argentina is celebrating too.
Funniest thing is that they wanted to give her a State funeral after all she did.
Fun fact: When she made that poll tax, the police later refused to arrest people cause 1 out of 3 people refused to pay it. A lot of people had it rough cause of her.
[QUOTE=UK-NJ]As a working class northerner who's grown up around miners families directly affected by Thatcher's regime I find it very hard to believe I'm seeing people defend her. It genuinely beggars belief.
I think a lot of you would change your mind about her if you'd lived in England at the time. Well, that is unless you're all loaded & money's no object.[/QUOTE]
Sadly the mining and manufacturing industries in England, just like the US, were on their way out regardless of what Thatcher or any other PM did. The only reason they were still around was because the unions had the government by the balls. By standing up to the unions she helped speed up the demise but she also prevented the entire country from going down with them.
Thatcher haters are ranting like she was this autocratic despot who took power by force and ruled as a cruel dictator. If I recall correctly she was democratically elected [B]3 times[/B] by overwhelming majorities.
[QUOTE]42 reasons to loathe Margaret Thatcher
1. She supported the retention of capital punishment.
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry, creating the untenable situation Britain endures today whereby we import everything from either Germany, the USA, or China. Britain went from a world leader in manufacturing to an international joke.
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws.
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher" being a popular slogan at the time).
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that has turned out).
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration.
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership).
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million, and this still does not take into account those forced on to incapacity benefits.
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands.
10. The poll tax (an unfair tax levied equally on every member of society regardless of income)
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad.
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War.
13. She privatised state monopolies such as energy and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years.
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS.
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits which led directly to the 2008 crash.
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA, prior to this support had been more bilateral and measured.
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control.
18. Section 28, a homophobic clause reading that a local council "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality" or "promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship".
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist".
20. She supported the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers.
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population.
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany.
23. She invented Quangos (shady government/private bodies with powers to influence policy but very little supervision)
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%, an evil flat tax on all.
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet.
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike.
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%.
31. BSE (deregulation of what could be fed to farm animals).
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession.
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process, exacerbating the feeling of unrest amongst the Catholic population.
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa during apartied.
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin, corruption after corruption.
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher.
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain -
[QUOTE=UK-NJ]It's very easy to talk about her policies favourably when you don't have any friends/family who were affected by them. There's a reason she had the lowest approval rating of any Prime minister since the war. 'There's no such thing as society' - yeah, and we're still paying the consequences of that single minded approach to this day. The further dismantling of the NHS by the current coalition is a nail in the coffin to one of the few remaining things that makes this country great.[/QUOTE]
How did she keep getting re-elected then? You blame her for the 79-81 recession but that was a world-wide event. Same for the 2008 crash. You blame her and everyone here blames Bush. The "manufacturing world leader" that Britain claimed to be was a facade. Do you honestly believe the industry would be a competitive world leader had Maggie bowed to the unions?
[Quote=George Will] She aimed to be the moral equivalent of military trauma, shaking her nation into vigor through rigor. As stable societies mature, they resemble long-simmering stews
didnt she support the apartheid in South Africa? :facepalm
I wont celebrate her death, but I won't mourn her because it doesnt seem to be much of a loss
edit:
[quote] She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist".[/quote]
yep.. just as I remembered...
She is alot like Reagan with the way certain people worship him & try to revise history even though he did some pretty heinous things as president.
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]didnt she support the apartheid in South Africa? :facepalm
I wont celebrate her death, but I won't mourn her because it doesnt seem to be much of a loss
edit:
yep.. just as I remembered...
She is alot like Reagan with the way certain people worship him & try to revise history even though he did some pretty heinous things as president.[/QUOTE]
Reagan and Thatcher didn't support divestment in companies doing business in South Africa as a way to combat apartheid. The left seized on this as de facto support for apartheid. Turns out both were wrong.
[QUOTE=FPJ]WOW
Ive never seen anyone getting so much heat after passing away. In Liverpool they are giving free pints in bars, in Scotland and Ireland it looks like they just won the WORLD Cup. Argentina is celebrating too.
Funniest thing is that they wanted to give her a State funeral after all she did.
Fun fact: When she made that poll tax, the police later refused to arrest people cause 1 out of 3 people refused to pay it. A lot of people had it rough cause of her.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't surprise me. I hadn't thought of this Elvis Costello song in probably 20 years, but it came back to me immediately. They are going to have to guard that grave. As vicious a song as I've ever heard.[QUOTE]Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, Im trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
Long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
Ill stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down
[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t4-zDem1Sk[/url]
[QUOTE=rufuspaul]Reagan and Thatcher didn't support divestment in companies doing business in South Africa as a way to combat apartheid. The left seized on this as de facto support for apartheid. Turns out both were wrong.[/QUOTE]
it is support for Apartheid... :confusedshrug:
How do we generally show opposition to countries like Iran or Iraq?
we discourage people from doing any business with them and basically try to cripple them economically..
maybe they paid political lip service to denouncing it (maybe you produce proof of this because I havent seen it), but that doesnt fool anyone except those who want to be fooled..
even though I dont think calling Nelson Mandela a "grubby terrorist" is even giving off the pretense of being against Apartheid..
IMO she was a foul woman who gets idolized for her charisma at the expense of all the ugly things she did... She is alot like Ronald Reagan
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]it is support for Apartheid... :confusedshrug:
How do we generally show opposition to countries like Iran or Iraq?
we discourage people from doing any business with them and basically try to cripple them economically..
maybe they paid political lip service to denouncing it, but that doesnt fool anyone except those who want to be fooled..
even though I dont think calling Nelson Mandela a "grubby terrorist" is even giving off the pretense of being against Apartheid..
IMO she was a foul woman who gets idolized for her charisma at the expense of all the ugly things she did... She is alot like Ronald Reagan[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah they were on the wrong side of history on that one. The congress actually overturned Reagan's veto on divestment (no small feat considering it takes a 2/3 majority vote). That angle just didn't jibe with their (Reagan's and Thatcher's) free market beliefs, and if there's one quality they both had it was sticking to their core beliefs no matter what public opinion at the time might be.
[QUOTE=rufuspaul]Reagan and Thatcher didn't support divestment in companies doing business in South Africa as a way to combat apartheid. The left seized on this as de facto support for apartheid. Turns out both were wrong.[/QUOTE]
How was it not de facto support for apartheid? Their attempts to shield South Africa from international reproach allowed apartheid to continue for longer than would have occurred if had gotten on the right side.
Also Thatcher and Reagan overtly supported South Africa did they not? [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_engagement"]Reagan blocked UN sanctions [/URL]against South Africa
[QUOTE=rufuspaul]Oh yeah they were on the wrong side of history on that one. The congress actually overturned Reagan's veto on divestment (no small feat considering it takes a 2/3 majority vote). That angle just didn't jibe with their (Reagan's and Thatcher's) free market beliefs, and if there's one quality they both had it was sticking to their core beliefs no matter what public opinion at the time might be.[/QUOTE]
It had nothing to do with the free market. They saw South Africa as anti-communist and as, such, were willing to overlook other crimes.
See Pinochet.
See Mobutu Sese Seko
et al
[QUOTE=KevinNYC]It had nothing to do with the free market. They saw South Africa as anti-communist and as, such, were willing to overlook other crimes.
See Pinochet.
See Mobutu Sese Seko
et al[/QUOTE]
Support for free markets would imply also being anti-communist don't you think?
Well GB has become a lazy, leecher, socialistic, slack nation. Of course they won't like Thatcher.
[QUOTE=senelcoolidge]Well GB has become a lazy, leecher, socialistic, slack nation. Of course they won't like Thatcher.[/QUOTE]
You notice no one's answered my question as to how she won such lopsided elections. I was certain there'd be posts about how the evil conservatives manipulated the electorate.
Weren't the Labour governments that Thatcher and Reagan hated also anti-communist?
Jimmy Carter who supported majority rule in South Africa wasn't anti-communist?
[QUOTE=rufuspaul]Support for free markets would imply also being anti-communist don't you think?[/QUOTE]
Lots of big differences there. The reason I'm anti-communist is not primarily their economic policies, it's their repressive and dictatorial nature and suppression of basic freedoms like speech. My point was that they supported governments who oppressed their people as long as those governments were anti-Soviet. They did care about their opinion on monetary policy. This embrace of dictators weakened the idea that being anti-communist = being pro freedom.
Promote economic reform and free market and small government >>> Cash out the value created by previous governments by selling off accumulated state property >>> Use this incidental profit to reinforce the "success" of your reforms
Easy, cheap, parasitical way towards short term success.
[QUOTE=KevinNYC]Weren't the Labour governments that Thatcher and Reagan hated also anti-communist?
Jimmy Carter who supported majority rule in South Africa wasn't anti-communist?
Lots of big differences there. The reason I'm anti-communist is not primarily their economic policies, it's their repressive and dictatorial nature and suppression of basic freedoms like speech. My point was that they supported governments who oppressed their people as long as those governments were anti-Soviet. They did care about their opinion on monetary policy. This embrace of dictators weakened the idea that being anti-communist = being pro freedom.[/QUOTE]
And how were they different from other administrations in that aspect? In case you forgot there was this thing called the Cold War going on at the time. Not getting annihilated by the Russians took priority. Dealing with the ugly underbellies of countries that could help in that regard was going to have to wait. The same sorts of things go on today (see Pakistan).
And if you think Jimmy Carter and the Labour party were actually on the way to winning the Cold War I've got land in Florida I'd like to sell you.