Do you think Kobe could've won a championship

[QUOTE=Quintilianus]It wasn't that the celtics were so stacked, it was their defense, and LeBron without that postgame that he only recently developed (which I think made him the best player in the league last year, hopefully for many years to come) wasn't able to do anything. That broke him down mentally.
Kobe, on the other hand, would've been able to score with his post moves, and since that was a team of shooters, something that Kobe has never had, it would've been interesting to see kobe being constantly doubled in the post and shooters getting all kinds of looks. And if you leave him 1v1 in the post, that's probably the deadliest weapon in the league.
Plus Kobe would never brake down mentally in any situation, he could start missing shots, but he would never quit, and we know that lebron quit.[/QUOTE]
Except the Cavs second best overall player in '08, and '09 was a SG, and their backup SF was who again? People forget just how good Delonte West was, especially in the playoffs. That man had no quit in him, and always gave it his best on both ends.

[QUOTE=thabisyo]Exactly, people act like MJ could win before pippen showed up[/QUOTE]
Celtics were too stacked on the 80's era. one of the factors that kept stopping Jordan from winning a series until Pippen showed up.

A more realistic question would be how long it would take for him to demand a trade.

[QUOTE=Quintilianus]It wasn't that the celtics were so stacked, it was their defense, and LeBron without that postgame that he only recently developed (which I think made him the best player in the league last year, hopefully for many years to come) wasn't able to do anything. That broke him down mentally.
Kobe, on the other hand, would've been able to score with his post moves, and since that was a team of shooters, something that Kobe has never had, it would've been interesting to see kobe being constantly doubled in the post and shooters getting all kinds of looks. And if you leave him 1v1 in the post, that's probably the deadliest weapon in the league.
[B]Plus Kobe would never brake down mentally in any situation, he could start missing shots, but he would never quit, and we know that lebron quit.[/QUOTE]
[/B

Why do people act like the game 7 against the suns in 06 never happened?

I dont think Kobe couldve gone far with this team, or at least farther then Lebron did. But Kobe wouldn't have quit in 2010, he would've at least tried. But the problem with that Cavs team is that it was built for Lebron James not Kobe bryant. Kobe is not the passer Lebron is.

What happened to that Cavs team is that they needed another player that could shoot or defend better in the post.

And why do people pretend like Bynum was such a factor when he played like ten minutes per game in both championship season? It was pretty much Odom who wasn't even a good defender coming off the bench and Gasol while a great player is not a superstar like Lebron stans say he is.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41][/B

Why do people act like the game 7 against the suns in 06 never happened?[/QUOTE]

Brah, only Kobetards ignore that beautiful fact, pretending it didn't exist.

Kobe quit in game 7 of the 06 playoffs.

[QUOTE=Bandito]I dont think Kobe couldve gone far with this team, or at least farther then Lebron did. But Kobe wouldn't have quit in 2010, he would've at least tried. But the problem with that Cavs team is that it was built for Lebron James not Kobe bryant. Kobe is not the passer Lebron is.

What happened to that Cavs team is that they needed another player that could shoot or defend better in the post.

And why do people pretend like Bynum was such a factor when he played like ten minutes per game in both championship season? It was pretty much Odom who wasn't even a good defender coming off the bench and Gasol while a great player is not a superstar like Lebron stans say he is.[/QUOTE]

Why did Kobe quit in 2006 then?

[QUOTE=DMAVS41][/B

Why do people act like the game 7 against the suns in 06 never happened?[/QUOTE]
Why do people act like 6 games before that never happened?
Kobe tried to use the tactic that brought them back where he hit that game-tieing and later game-winning shot. That game-tieing shot was the 1st or 2n shot of the 4th quarter for kobe, and they were down in that game too, so they managed to comeback with kobe playing as a decoy.
He later on scored 50 points in a loss just to realize that high scoring from him doesn't phase the suns.
Lakers tried to comeback with the same tactic in game 7. Kobe still played good in first three quarters, he had 20 something points with 50+FG%. And they were down 20+, so it's not like his aggresive play could've saved them, when the only tactic that worked in comebacks in that series was him being a decoy and not shooting that much

Is Phil the coach in the scenario because Kobe has won nothing without him.

[QUOTE=Quintilianus]Why do people act like 6 games before that never happened?
Kobe tried to use the tactic that brought them back where he hit that game-tieing and later game-winning shot. That game-tieing shot was the 1st or 2n shot of the 4th quarter for kobe, and they were down in that game too, so they managed to comeback with kobe playing as a decoy.
He later on scored 50 points in a loss just to realize that high scoring from him doesn't phase the suns.
Lakers tried to comeback with the same tactic in game 7. Kobe still played good in first three quarters, he had 20 something points with 50+FG%. And they were down 20+, so it's not like his aggresive play could've saved them, when the only tactic that worked in comebacks in that series was him being a decoy and not shooting that much[/QUOTE]

Still doesn't change the fact that Kobe did exactly what you claim and others claim he'd never do.

Never ceases to amaze me.

And Kobe's play in that series for a superstar was good, but hardly great. Please don't act otherwise because it's just not true.

[QUOTE=The Playmaker]there isn't a single player in nba history that could have won with cleveland.[/QUOTE]
Olajuwon and Duncan led championship teams in pts,rb,as and blk

peak Olajuwon or Duncan + Mo Williams,Delonte West,Gibson,Pavlovic,Wally,Joe Smith,Big Z and Varejao could have been enough to win a title

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Still doesn't change the fact that Kobe did exactly what you claim and others claim he'd never do.

Never ceases to amaze me.

And Kobe's play in that series for a superstar was good, but hardly great. Please don't act otherwise because it's just not true.[/QUOTE]
Did Kobe stop playing defense in that game? Did he stop facilitating? No, nor he had many turnovers in the 4th or the whole game.

[QUOTE=Quintilianus]Did Kobe stop playing defense in that game? Did he stop facilitating? No, nor he had many turnovers in the 4th or the whole game.[/QUOTE]

He clearly quit in the 2nd half...and was sending a message. Do we really have to debate this?

Do people think something less than a decade ago is just going to be forgotten or not properly remembered.

Kobe quit in the 2nd half...plain and simple.

So acting like Kobe would never pull what Lebron did in game 5 in 2010 is not a valid argument at all.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Why did Kobe quit in 2006 then?[/QUOTE]
He was sending a message to Phil that him passing was no way to win a championship.:roll:

And he proved him right.:banana:


**** if I know what he quit. Who am I his conscience? But don't compare 2006 with 2010 either, the team Lebron had was better than 06 Lakers by a lot.

Kobe would have a hard time to lead that Cavs' team into the playoffs, let alone to lead them so deep as Lebron did year after year.

Good one OP [img]http://www.imgur.com/PaH5ZG1.png[/img]

[QUOTE=All Net]No even as a Kobe fan...nobody could with those rosters in 07 and 09. Lebron averaged 38,8 and 8 and still lost in 09 that says it all.[/QUOTE]
/Thread

[QUOTE=Bandito]He was sending a message to Phil that him passing was no way to win a championship.:roll:

And he proved him right.:banana:


**** if I know what he quit. Who am I his conscience? But don't compare 2006 with 2010 either, [B]the team Lebron had was better than 06 Lakers by a lot[/B].[/QUOTE]

:lol

Even now on paper, the lakers are better than the maimi

They would have made it to the ECF every single year, and I'm sure they would have won at least one chip.

[QUOTE=6 for 24]My InsideHoops brothers & sisters:

This is a wonderful discussion! Now here in Mozambique, we did not receive the NBA broadcasts during the time you refer to, but I can only assume this Cleveland team was horrible, yes? So the question is, can the great Kobe Bryant take a horrible team to the championship trophy?

I am no expert on the basketball, but, from the many hours I have watched Kobe Bryant, I would say yes, emphatically! I believe, so long as there are players that are willing to give Kobe the ball, the ball will find its way to the cylinder, awarding the points necessary to be victorious.

For example, let us look at this season. Again, it is difficult for me to follow the broadcasts due to the inclement weather and the lions, but from my understanding, Kobe has quite horrible teammates this year. And yet it seems his team is again the favorites to win the championship title! This is quite remarkable!

So, yes, yes, one thousand times yes!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye[/QUOTE]

:biggums:

A better thread would have been "Do you think Lebron could have had The Lakers comfortably in Playoffs instead of 9th?" it may not have fit, but it makes more sense

[QUOTE=I<3NBA]in Cleveland?

he is clearly better than Lebron James in the "willpower" department. so i'm assuming he could've just "willed" that team to a championship.[/QUOTE]

BUT

Kobe is clearly LOWER than LBJ in the following departments:

-Talent
-Strength
-Stamina
-Endurance
-B'ball IQ

&

-Efficiency above all.

Kobe will get his 45 wins with CLE with few 34-35 ppg seasons. Thats about it.

Forget CLE ever crossing the 50 win season with inefficient superstar!

1st round or 2nd round exit on reg basis in post season.

Just cuz some once can chuck away 27 FGA at 45%FG dont make them a championship material.

ask AI.

[QUOTE=6 for 24]Mr. Kenneth:

I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.

Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye[/QUOTE]

welcome to ISH

:cheers:

my new favorite poster

[QUOTE=chips93]welcome to ISH

:cheers:

my new favorite poster[/QUOTE]
it's a starface gimmick

[QUOTE=6 for 24]Mr. Kenneth:

I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.

Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye[/QUOTE]

best gimmick ever!!! :roll: :applause:

The only person or persons that couldve won
with those teams are

Wilt,Jordan,Shaq

Wilt would dominate any frontline any you would have to double,triple wilt nowadays,also Wilt was the greatest rebounder,shotblocker and could play the whole game and was one of greatest defensive players along with
the Most Dominating player of all time.

Jordan could score from anywhere besides 3 pt line good and had amazing defense and with tge current game Jordan wouldnt be stopped.

Shaq would abuse every frontline player in front of him and would foul people out,the sheer size of him would put a blockage of paint play,and with Howard getting 10 ft that year almost and all these otger stars Shaq would get 15+

[QUOTE=chazzy]it's a [B]starface [/B]gimmick[/QUOTE]

cant say im familiar

Considering when wilt had to or wanted to or had to be offensive focus
he put up 50 For a Season along with 25 rebounds

And when he wanted to pass he put up 30,25,10

and defense 25,28

Jordan scored 40,50,60 against the celtics,put up pts vs pistons,destroyed the cavs,He avg 30 in all the playoffs,If he had to do everything
youd see 35,8,12 most likely or even more with the rules today and ft.

Shaq avg 35,12,3 in his dominating playoff year
and was against a better frontline than what LeBron went against those years and even with Dwight,Shaq as an old man against Dwight still put up pts and Dwight couldnt stop him but Shaq could slow down Dwight
And he had 12 fta with the current then rules 15-20 fta those playoffs putting up
possibly 40,15,4 on 48-55% fg rather than his 60-65% usual.

[QUOTE=Flash31]The only person or persons that couldve won
with those teams are

Wilt,Jordan,Shaq

Wilt would dominate any frontline any you would have to double,triple wilt nowadays,also Wilt was the greatest rebounder,shotblocker and could play the whole game and was one of greatest defensive players along with
the Most Dominating player of all time.

Jordan could score from anywhere besides 3 pt line good and had amazing defense and with tge current game Jordan wouldnt be stopped.

Shaq would abuse every frontline player in front of him and would foul people out,the sheer size of him would put a blockage of paint play,and with Howard getting 10 ft that year almost and all these otger stars Shaq would get 15+[/QUOTE]

This

/thread

[QUOTE=The Playmaker]there isn't a single player in nba history that could have won with cleveland.[/QUOTE]

2007 Detroit Pistons (53-29)
2009 Atlanta Hawks (47-35)
2008 Washington Wizards (43-39)
2010 Chicago Bulls (41-41)
2007 Washington Wizards (41-41)
2007 New Jersey Nets (41-41)
2009 Detroit Pistons (39-43)

There isn't an all star in this league incapable of duplicating Lebron's "success" with the Cavs. Those teams dont even make the playoffs in the West.

Any superstar in league history when paired with a top defensive, top rebounding and top three point shooting supporting cast is capable of duplicating what Lebron accomplished given the competition with the Cavs. People with agendas love to make his teammates look worse than they are just to prop up LeBron. The team, especially in 2010 perfectly complimented his talents or any superstar wing for that matter.

Who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. They would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan]BUT

Kobe is clearly LOWER than LBJ in the following departments:

-Talent
-Strength
-Stamina
-Endurance
-B'ball IQ

&

-Efficiency above all.

Kobe will get his 45 wins with CLE with few 34-35 ppg seasons. Thats about it.

Forget CLE ever crossing the 50 win season with inefficient superstar!

1st round or 2nd round exit on reg basis in post season.

Just cuz some once can chuck away 27 FGA at 45%FG dont make them a championship material.

ask AI.[/QUOTE]
Just ask Kobe. When he was averaging all those points his team was 8th seed getting smacked by The Suns.

:oldlol: Kobe would've demanded a trade out of Cleveland, after concluding his rookie year. Like a lil bitch. Child please.

[QUOTE=All Net]No even as a Kobe fan...nobody could with those rosters in 07 and 09. Lebron averaged 38,8 and 8 and still lost in 09 that says it all.[/QUOTE]

Actually I do think there were some areas where LeBron could have stepped up in 2009, in particular his defense. His defense was pretty poor in the '09 series vs Orlando and practically exposed. I remember people were talking about how he was a DPOY candidate that year and he showed how he wasn't even close in that ECF. They assigned him to Rafer Alston and made him sag off of him and the thing is LeBron didn't make much of an impact on help defense. He didn't really bother Dwight though it was hard to do so because of how deep he was setting up, but I don't remember him pressuring the ball to take time off the clock. Kobe's help defense on Dwight in the Finals was a good bit better and often stripped him or forced a deflection.

He also wasn't that good in some of the fourth quarters like missing 5 free throws in game 3 and a whole bunch of turnovers in game 4 late in the game. Game 6 was also pretty weak, 2 points in the fourth.

It is true he didn't get much help vs Orlando although I don't think that his performance was as astonishing as some people consider it.

The team record for the Cavs was deceiving
60 plus games won but it was LEBRON literally carrying the load,
those teams are like what the Bulls with Rose when they won 60,good defense,but only one star or player to worry about

same like with AIS sixers,You shut down Rose it was over,they were doing to Rose what people did to LeBron on the Cavs same with Iverson

And out of those 3 teams LeBron had by far the worst team.

It was literally a one man team with defenders like Roses and Ais was,
when you put up 38,8,8 and youre team still loses yeah thats a one man team there,where was the help,same with Rose nowhere,you see the Bulls now how they win games they go hard every game and win with defense but have horrible offense and their starters are playing nearly 40 min a game just to win in
the regular season,with no star or offensive ability to create on own its over

[QUOTE=KOBE143]Kobe won b2b with Gasoft, Odumb, No knees Bynum and Fisher the worst starting pg of all time as his best teammates, so YES..[/QUOTE]
Gasol was pretty dang good when the Lakers originally acquired him. And Odom won sixth man of the year just a year after the the repeat, and he too was pretty good during it. However, that was after the chips, and Bynum too only became good after as well, but he was critical during it despite being oft-injured. While Derek fisher does/did suck, he was critical in that OT road win in Orlando, and the game 3 victory in Boston. Without him, the Lakers might not have repeated. Kobe won with a good, not great cast.
Back to the thread topic however, I think Kobe might've been able to win with a Cavs roster in 09', only once he got to the finals, he might face a Kobe led Lakers with a better supporting cast, so Lakers Kobe might win out.

Bruh, Kobe had Caron Butler and Lamar Odom and they missed the playoffs. If he couldn't make the playoffs with those two talented players with makes you think he would've won the championship with all those scrubs in Cleveland? :roll:

Lamar Odom + Caron Butler >>>>>>>>>> any player on the Cavs other than LeBron.

The only guy I ever see winning with them is MJ.

LMAO. LeBron couldn't win a title in Cleveland... how would Kobe have a chance? They'd probably have won around 50 games or so and lost in the first/second round usually. No way Kobe is literally single-handedly carrying Cleveland past a vastly superior and way more talented Detroit team in the conference finals on his way to the Finals.

No question. Prime Kobe absolutely would've won a championship with that Cleveland team. LeBron is great..and maybe he could do it now with that team, but at the time he didn't have it in him. He has Wade and Bosh now though so he doesn't have to fear failure anymore.