all those guys are great players. lmao
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all those guys are great players. lmao
[QUOTE=Solefade]Pau was considered the best big man in the game the year they won their chip in 2009 and 2010. Lamar was 6th man of the year before he got traded and Bynum was considered the 2nd best big man in the league before he got shipped off to Philly.
During their times they were great players but they've fallen off since, it has no correlation to Kobe other than the fact that they played together. It's disrespectful as hell to discredit these guys that were MAJOR pieces in getting the chip, not saying they completely carried Kobe though. OKC had to pick up Perkins and Ibaka to compete against Lamar/Gasol/Bynum so that has to account for something.[/QUOTE]
How many times do I have to tell you, Bynum didn't do crap in the championship years. He was known to be an injury risk, he still is. How moronic are you? Or did you started watching the NBA after 2012?:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
[QUOTE=Bandito]How many times do I have to tell you, Bynum didn't do crap in the championship years. He was known to be an injury risk, he still is. How moronic are you? Or did you started watching the NBA after 2012?:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm[/QUOTE]
How dumb and unobjective are you? The presence of Pau, Bynum, Lamar in the frontcourt dictated a lot of how teams played against them. Bynum had limited minutes (~25/pg) in the playoffs and also only average 5 or 6 shots a game. No shit your numbers are going to be dwarfed when you take that many shots a game and yet he still shot 53%+. He was healthy in time for the playoffs in 09/10 thats what mattered.
And even if you think he's "worthless" he was the 4th option on that team anyway. He's better than his stats says he is just like how you do the same with Bosh and the Heat.
And I'm sorry, I don't think I've ever spoken to you before. I tend to ignore/refuse to respond those who throw worthless points at me.
[QUOTE=Solefade]Apparently you Laker fans didn't watch the games otherwise you wouldn't be discrediting Kobe's teammates.
That article is very informative, has good contextual information and facts.[/QUOTE]
No it doesn't it says Lakers without Kobe won more.
00-03 the Lakers won more with Shaq than without him.
Of course they did, take Kobe and you still have Shaq to pass the ball too. Take Shaq out and you have to depend on Kobe to shoot from the outside, with no defense on the block, due to Shaq leaving. I don't even remember if Shaq had a back up, or if they just played a lot of PF's or something.:facepalm
05-07 It says that Lamar Odom was more impactful with Odom than with Kobe again based on the W/L.
08-12 It says, again based on the W/L that Kobe didn't have any impact at all. Again take Kobe out and you still had the two towers and maybe Bynum if he wasn't injured. Take Gasol or Odom out (Bynum always was) and you have a hole in the middle, reminiscent of Shaq's days.
That article is bogus and retarded.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
[QUOTE=Solefade]Well shit, Bosh's impact doesn't show up in the numbers and at time he's inconsistent too, but he deserves all the credit for those little things he does for the team because someone has to. Bynum averaged around 15/8 in both of those championship seasons even with his limited minutes. You guys gotta be a little more objective about this, just saying.[/QUOTE]
If you want to be objective how many minutes did he average in the playoffs, 08, 09 and 10 and put that in perspective? Who cares about the regular season, I want to know the playoffs stats or the finals for that matter.
[QUOTE=Solefade]How dumb and unobjective are you? The presence of Pau, Bynum, Lamar in the frontcourt dictated a lot of how teams played against them. Bynum had limited minutes (~25/pg) in the playoffs and also only average 5 or 6 shots a game. No shit your numbers are going to be dwarfed when you take that many shots a game and yet he still shot 53%+. He was healthy in time for the playoffs in 09/10 thats what mattered.
And even if you think he's "worthless" he was the 4th option on that team anyway. He's better than his stats says he is just like how you do the same with Bosh and the Heat.
And I'm sorry, I don't think I've ever spoken to you before.[B] I tend to ignore/refuse to respond those who throw worthless points at me.[/B][/QUOTE]
must be why you ignored my request for you to post Bynums numbers in the post season for those 2 championship runs?
in the 2009 playoffs Bynum played 17 minutes per game and average 6 points and 4 rebounds per game while shooting 46%
in the 2010 playoffs Bynum played 24 minutes per game and averaged 8 points and 7 rebounds per game on 53%
you have no idea what you're talking about, Bynum STARTED and posted 6 & 4 as the STARTING CENTER and they still won a title.
[QUOTE=Solefade]How dumb and unobjective are you? The presence of Pau, Bynum, Lamar in the frontcourt dictated a lot of how teams played against them. Bynum had limited minutes (~25/pg) in the playoffs and also only average 5 or 6 shots a game. No shit your numbers are going to be dwarfed when you take that many shots a game and yet he still shot 53%+. He was healthy in time for the playoffs in 09/10 thats what mattered.
And even if you think he's "worthless" he was the 4th option on that team anyway. He's better than his stats says he is just like how you do the same with Bosh and the Heat.
And I'm sorry, I don't think I've ever spoken to you before. I tend to ignore/refuse to respond those who throw worthless points at me.[/QUOTE]
I never said he was worthless but he was less of a a factor in those championship years than Fisher. Fisher had to fight against the top PG's of that era while Bynum was on the bench drinking gatorade. Who the fvck is talking about Pau or Odom. I believe they were great players, Pau still is. but Bynum in the championship yers didn't do sh1t. So stop talking about being objective when your agenda is only one is to prove Kobe is a scrub.
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]must be why you ignored my request for you to post Bynums numbers in the post season for those 2 championship runs?
in the 2009 playoffs Bynum played 17 minutes per game and average 6 points and 4 rebounds per game while shooting 46%
in the 2010 playoffs Bynum played 24 minutes per game and averaged 8 points and 7 rebounds per game on 53%
you have no idea what you're talking about, Bynum STARTED and posted 6 & 4 as the STARTING CENTER and they still won a title.[/QUOTE]
You're acting as if Andrew Bynum was a liability out there. He didn't score that much simply because he didn't get much shot attempts or that much playing time. He was still better than 90% of the centers in the league.
[QUOTE=Bandito]No it doesn't it says Lakers without Kobe won more.
00-03 the Lakers won more with Shaq than without him.
Of course they did, take Kobe and you still have Shaq to pass the ball too. Take Shaq out and you have to depend on Kobe to shoot from the outside, with no defense on the block, due to Shaq leaving. I don't even remember if Shaq had a back up, or if they just played a lot of PF's or something.:facepalm
05-07 It says that Lamar Odom was more impactful with Odom than with Kobe again based on the W/L.
08-12 It says, again based on the W/L that Kobe didn't have any impact at all. Again take Kobe out and you still had the two towers and maybe Bynum if he wasn't injured. Take Gasol or Odom out (Bynum always was) and you have a hole in the middle, reminiscent of Shaq's days.
That article is bogus and retarded.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm[/QUOTE]
So, article is retarted because it shows that Kobe could not win without Shaq, then later Odom, and then Gasol/Odom/Bynum, and those guys could win with without him :applause:
Kobe was better individual player than all of those players except Shaq, but he wasn't most valuable player to his team. It's all about wins, and Kobe couldn't give them wins without any of them, while those guys could without him.
Kobe was never ever the MVP of the Lakers team!!! :cheers:
Elton Brand must be the goat.
Without him, Jason Hart and Rick Brunson never got an opportunity.
Not to mention Guillermo Diaz, Will Conroy, Mamadou N;Diaye, Boniface N;Dong, Zeljko Rebraca, Doug Overton, Quinton Ross, Josh Moore, Tremaine Fowlkes, Daniel Ewing, Kirk Penny, Lionel Chalmers, Maurice Baker, Will Conroy, Yaroslav Korolev, Paul Davis, etc.
[QUOTE=Nashty]So, article is retarted because it shows that Kobe could not win without Shaq, then later Odom, and then Gasol/Odom/Bynum, and those guys could win with without him :applause:
Kobe was better individual player than all of those players except Shaq, but he wasn't most valuable player to his team. It's all about wins, and Kobe couldn't give them wins without any of them, while those guys could without him.
Kobe was never ever the MVP of the Lakers team!!! :cheers:[/QUOTE]
I am not saying he was the MVP of 00 - 03 Lakers team, not even close, Shaq was that dominant. Heck 10 and 11 could be argued, but that article is talking about bullcrap about when he was on the sidelines and the other players were on the sideline without taking in context the team they were playing against.
Is the same argument Lebron stans said last year when Wade was on the sidelines and they were playing the worst of the east.
[QUOTE=NBASTATMAN]Both Farmar and Sasha left the NBA because of the lockout... Both played well in backup roles for NJ...Farmar was actually pretty good when he was able to start for the team...
What did Kobe do before Pau , Bynum, and Fish got to LA? Didn't make the playoffs and a couple of first round exits..
[B]WHAT OTHER SUPERSTAR HAS LOST A SERIES AFTER THEY WERE UP 3-1[/B]? :roll:
HAS ANY TOP 10 PLAYER ALL TIME HAD THAT HAPPEN TO THEM? Just asking[/QUOTE]
What other superstar lead his team up 3-1 with Smush Parker and Luke Walton starting?:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]must be why you ignored my request for you to post Bynums numbers in the post season for those 2 championship runs?
in the 2009 playoffs Bynum played 17 minutes per game and average 6 points and 4 rebounds per game while shooting 46%
in the 2010 playoffs Bynum played 24 minutes per game and averaged 8 points and 7 rebounds per game on 53%
you have no idea what you're talking about, Bynum STARTED and posted 6 & 4 as the STARTING CENTER and they still won a title.[/QUOTE]
I stated his numbers in a previous post, sorry didn't know it had to be official lulz. His numbers obviously aren't great but like I said, he averaged 5 and 6 attempts per game in 09 and 10 in the playoffs while averaging 17 mpg in 09 and 24 mpg in 10. I'm sure if he got more looks, he'd be way more productive as proof shows that in 10-11.
He started games but he never got to finish them that's why his minutes and production are dwarfed and that's totally fair because Odom and Gasol were better anyway.
[IMG]http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p689/Solefade/bynum_zps9e0c46e7.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Bandito]I never said he was worthless but he was less of a a factor in those championship years than Fisher. Fisher had to fight against the top PG's of that era while Bynum was on the bench drinking gatorade. Who the fvck is talking about Pau or Odom. I believe they were great players, Pau still is. but Bynum in the championship yers didn't do sh1t. So stop talking about being objective when your agenda is only one is to prove Kobe is a scrub.[/QUOTE]
I'm not out here to prove that Kobe is a scrub retard. I'm out here to show why you Laker fans shouldn't be discrediting his teammates in those championship years and my main argument was for Pau not Bynum. Madsen was the one that initially brought up Bynum. Learn to read previous post before you come out here with your guns blazing, son.
[QUOTE=Nick Young]What other superstar lead his team up 3-1 with Smush Parker and Luke Walton starting?:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
Don't forget 19 year old Bynum...:roll:
[QUOTE=Solefade]I'm not out here to prove that Kobe is a scrub retard. I'm out here to show why you Laker fans shouldn't be discrediting his teammates in those championship years and my main argument was for Pau not Bynum. Madsen was the one that initially brought up Bynum. Learn to read previous post before you come out here with your guns blazing, son.[/QUOTE]
It seems I was right and broke a nerve since you started insulting bro.:lol
I wasn't talking about his teammates, I was talking about Bynum specifically. I don't even talk about no one else in my posts except him, because he was the only one, that due to injuries was limited in games. If you watch the games you would see that he was slower than in 10-11 and the reason Phil took him out. Heck Phil even talk publicly about him once if I remember correctly. If you think Kobe stole his shot attempts I would recommend you to leave ISH please.:facepalm
[QUOTE=Bandito]I am not saying he was the MVP of 00 - 03 Lakers team, not even close, Shaq was that dominant. Heck 10 and 11 could be argued, but that article is talking about bullcrap about when he was on the sidelines and the other players were on the sideline without taking in context the team they were playing against.
Is the same argument Lebron stans said last year when Wade was on the sidelines and they were playing the worst of the east.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it has it's flaws, but any of the all time greats have positive impact on his teams wins-losses when he's playing, and Bryant is the only one that has absolute zero impact, even worse, the team sometimes plays better without him.
[QUOTE=Solefade][B]Pau was considered the best big man in the game the year they won their chip in 2009 and 2010.[/B] Lamar was 6th man of the year before he got traded and Bynum was considered the 2nd best big man in the league before he got shipped off to Philly.
[/QUOTE]
What kind of shit is this?
Haters better quit this thread before they get called out for some of the stupidities said in here.
[QUOTE=Nashty]Yes, it has it's flaws, but any of the all time greats have positive impact on his teams wins-losses when he's playing, and Bryant is the only one that has absolute zero impact, even worse, the team sometimes plays better without him.[/QUOTE]
Like this year when people were saying that for the last three games when he was out and then ball movement could not save Dwight and the Lakers against the mightiness of the Spurs.RIIIIIIIIIIGGHT.:biggums:
[QUOTE=PickernRoller]What kind of shit is this?
Haters better quit this thread before they get called out for some of the stupidities said in here.[/QUOTE]
I'm staying out of this argument but in 2009/2010 who was a better big man than Pau and why?
[QUOTE=PickernRoller]What kind of shit is this?
Haters better quit this thread before they get called out for some of the stupidities said in here.[/QUOTE]
I can't believe I miss that LMAO....:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=Bandito]It seems I was right and broke a nerve since you started insulting bro.:lol
I wasn't talking about his teammates, I was talking about Bynum specifically. I don't even talk about no one else in my posts except him, because he was the only one, that due to injuries was limited in games. If you watch the games you would see that he was slower than in 10-11 and the reason Phil took him out. Heck Phil even talk publicly about him once if I remember correctly. If you think Kobe stole his shot attempts I would recommend you to leave ISH please.:facepalm[/QUOTE]
When did I ever say Kobe stole his attempts? All I'm saying about Bynum was he is better than people gave him credit for because he was playing behind two players that were better than him at the time and I understand his health was a factor. But I'm here to simply give credit to Pau who for some reason gets discredited all the time by Laker fans.
[QUOTE=KyleKong]I'm staying out of this argument but in 2009/2010 who was a better big man than Pau and why?[/QUOTE]
If you happen to not know then you got an issue. Name me 2. I think that's extremely easy. I mean they are superstars today still... better than Pau still....if you can't name them - well, not worthy telling you that.
[QUOTE=Nick Young]What other superstar lead his team up 3-1 with Smush Parker and Luke Walton starting?:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
LeBron getting Eric Snow and Larry Hughes to the finals was way more impressive.
[QUOTE=Solefade]When did I ever say Kobe stole his attempts? All I'm saying about Bynum was he is better than people gave him credit for because he was playing behind two players that were better than him at the time and I understand his health was a factor. But I'm here to simply give credit to Pau who for some reason gets discredited all the time by Laker fans.[/QUOTE]
Again I am here to discredit Bynum involvement in the championship run:lol
Pau was awesome, though,:bowdown:
THat is why I call him Godsol!:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Without Gasol or Odom the Lakers don't win, but exchange Bynum with let's say Dalembert and they still win.
[QUOTE=PickernRoller]If you happen to not know then you got an issue. Name me 2. I think that's extremely easy. I mean they are superstars today still... better than Pau still....if you can't name them - well, not worthy telling you that.[/QUOTE]
Valid argument. Glad to see you took the mature approach with good insight and facts on my question.
:facepalm
[QUOTE=PickernRoller]If you happen to not know then you got an issue. Name me 2. I think that's extremely easy. I mean they are superstars today still... better than Pau still....if you can't name them - well, not worthy telling you that.[/QUOTE]
Wtf kind of answer is this? You come in here yelling at people to get out because they're stupid and when someone asks you a legit question, you answer by asking another question? :facepalm gtfo bro you're one of those people that make Laker fans look bad.
[QUOTE=KyleKong]Valid argument. Glad to see you took the mature approach with good insight and facts on my question.
:facepalm[/QUOTE]
That's the proper answer you deserved. You are either into the argument or you're not. IF you claim what the other claims then I'll give you the clear cut 2 names. Then some more that are debatable.
[QUOTE=Solefade]Wtf kind of answer is this? You come in here yelling at people to get out because they're stupid and when someone asks you a legit question, you answer by asking another question? :facepalm gtfo bro you're one of those people that make Laker fans look bad.[/QUOTE]
You're a clown son. A bad troll. Just give up. Some people here gave you too much attention it seems. Go blow off your time with someone's boner.
[QUOTE=Bandito]Like this year when people were saying that for the last three games when he was out and then ball movement could not save Dwight and the Lakers against the mightiness of the Spurs.RIIIIIIIIIIGGHT.:biggums:[/QUOTE]
They played just two games with Blake and one game with Meeks who both started that last two games they won in the regular season without Kobe. And Nash played two games on one leg, don' act like it was only Bryant who was missing.
I would love to see Nash, Gasol and Howard healthy next season without Kobe, I guarantee they would have 55+ wins.
I don't think it's a coincidence how Bryant is the only all time great who have bad impact on his teams wins-losses.
[QUOTE=PickernRoller]You're a clown son. A bad troll. Just give up. Some people here gave you too much attention it seems. Go blow off your time with someone's boner.[/QUOTE]
Still waiting for that answer bro.
[QUOTE=Solefade]Still waiting for that answer bro.[/QUOTE]
I never said I was going to give you one. Last I remember I addressed someone else with that proposition. You're exposed anyhow - more so cause you are troll rather than what you really believe - although hard to say with morons like you. Like I said, jerk off to someone's dick.
[QUOTE=Nashty]They played just two games with Blake and one game with Meeks who both started that last two games they won in the regular season without Kobe. And Nash played two games on one leg, don' act like it was only Bryant who was missing.
I would love to see Nash, Gasol and Howard healthy next season without Kobe, I guarantee they would have 55+ wins.
I don't think it's a coincidence how Bryant is the only all time great who have bad impact on his teams wins-losses.[/QUOTE]
Please, stans like you say the only reason they were 8 to begin with was solely on his shoulders, and now you're giving excuses as to why they lost in the first round?:no:
Double standards yo. Just leave ISH and never come back.
[QUOTE=Deleterious]He played the Suns with MVP Nash, Amar'e and Marion being up 3-1 was overachieving to start of, then he had his best player as Odom put some context in your stupid ranting.[/QUOTE]
WOW ANOTHER KOBESTAN... Don't know shit... Amare was hurt that year.. In fact the Suns didn't have a player over 6ft 8inches tall for that series vs the Lakers...U :mad:
[QUOTE=Nick Young]What other superstar lead his team up 3-1 with Smush Parker and Luke Walton starting?:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
Wow what a shitty comeback.. Is that all you can come up with? I guess the answer is no.. No other top ten all time player has lost after being up 3-1
[QUOTE=NBASTATMAN] No other top ten all time player has lost after being up 3-1[/QUOTE]
Wilt
[QUOTE=Mr. Jabbar]exactly. I consider Fisher the best player (not named shaq) on his own merits to have ever played with kobe[/QUOTE]
That would be Robert Horry.
[QUOTE=Bandito]Please, stans like you say the only reason they were 8 to begin with was solely on his shoulders, and now you're giving excuses as to why they lost in the first round?:no:
Double standards yo. Just leave ISH and never come back.[/QUOTE]
You are a retard! How do you suppose to win when you're playing without Nash, Blake and Meeks, your first three choices on the guard positions?
And don't try to turn this into a this season debate, Lakers historically played better without Bryant, he is a no factor, put any other SG in the lineup and they are equally good, he brings absolutely nothing to his team except chucking his team out of wins. Lakers would have more rings if they had any other SG in the league who can play defense and won't chuck as much Kobe.
[QUOTE=Mr. Jabbar]All of them, considered by lebron(*) stans to be the ones "carrying" kobe through the 2009/2011 chips, have proven they are either scrubs, mental mdigets, underachievers or all of the above when they have played without kobe.
So tell me, is this just a bizarre coincidence?[/QUOTE]
Is it a coincidence Kobe cannot win without the most dominant front court in the league? Is it just a bizarre coincidence?
[QUOTE=AintNoSunshine]Is it a coincidence Kobe cannot win without the most dominant front court in the league? Is it just a bizarre coincidence?[/QUOTE]
and Lebron can't win without..........