Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson - Who was the better player All Time?

It's unfortunate the young uns never got to see prime Bird.

Think a better Nowitzki. Better shooter. Actually a better rebounder than the 7 footer. :eek:

Long range shooting on par with Reggie Miller and Ray Allen.

Dude was in the 50/40/90 club twice.

Damn Magic or Bird. Real tough, can't go wrong with either. They are ELITE hall of famers. Depends on which position you need to fill.

[QUOTE=KOBE143]Magic

Bird is just an era-specific player.. His ceiling in today's league would be Scalabrine at best..[/QUOTE]

Maybe someone can explain "era-specific player" to me.

[QUOTE=Nero Tulip]I was born after all that but seems to me Magic was pretty much better in every way :confusedshrug:

I just don't see the argument for Bird. People saying stuff like "Bird was the better player" but there's absolutely nothing to support it.[/QUOTE]

You just have to watch film my friend. Lots and lots of film.
Bird was a better shooter from first to last, and a better scorer. Magic really wasn't better than Bird at anything. Maybe dribbling. Like I said earlier, this one is too close to call. It really would come down to what your team needs.

But to say one or the other is "better in every way"............. shows clearly you don't know anything about their games and worse, you don't even bother finding out.

[QUOTE=Nero Tulip]I was born after all that but seems to me Magic was pretty much better in every way :confusedshrug:

I just don't see the argument for Bird. People saying stuff like "Bird was the better player" but there's absolutely nothing to support it.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

Nothing to support it? Better stats, more impact, better defensively, etc. What more do you want.

Bird was being called the greatest player to ever play the game quite regularly in the middle of his career. If you were born after all of it, read up, and then you'll see all the things that point to Bird being quite clearly the better player.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Maybe someone can explain "era-specific player" to me.[/QUOTE]

Sure.

"era specific" is a term coined by Kobe stans, lakers stans.

[B]It is applied to any all-timer who shoots 50%FG or is insanely efficient or ULTRA CLUTCH in post-season & finals.[/B]

this makes kobe's ball hogging, chucking 25ppg career ave at 45%FG look PATHETIC & to deliberately protect kobe's INFLATED legacy, these all-timers automatically become "era specific"

Thats about it.

Examples of "era specific" players according to Kobe'tards

1.Bird
2.moses
3.Dr. J
4.Sir. Charles
5.D'Rob
6.Hakeem
7.Duncan

list goes on & on. Any player thats all-time Top 10-18 with exception of Bird.

Magic hit the floor running and was instantly ready for the spotlight and changing the look of the game. It took a minute before Bird got the playoff thing right (It wasn't until his fifth year til he got it right and then he was phenomenal). Magic had already won two finals MVP's by that time. Most of the responsibility of changing the league and putting a winning face on it was on Magic. He also had several key players that weren't so happy with his attention and fame. Whereas, Bird's team was built around him and Aurabach would have shipped you out of town if you had a problem with that.

When Bird did come of age he had one of the most complete games and was able to dominate with it. '84 to '86 was a display of beauty, skill and the perfect mentality to boot. The rivalry was in Bird's favor to me at this time.

In '87 the pendulum swung back to Magic as he showed the incredible ability to run a team to perfection. He was at the core of a team that just flourished unlike any other in terms of efficiency and attack.

It seemed weird that both players had this great all around game and came into the league at the same time. Nevermind their ability to take the game to new heights while increasing the fans ability to know and love the game. They took on a lot of responsibility and still flourished.

[QUOTE=9erempiree]Magic is a greatest of all time player.

Bird is an era-specific player.[/QUOTE]

you're just a dumbass all around

Magic was magic. There was a reason why his name was so apropos. Incredible passer, one of the best all-time, definitely better than Bird. Super efficient scorer. Well over 50% for most of his prime. He ended up .520 fg% lifetime. The shyt he did, like being the center in the championship game. Precursor to LeBron. Saying LeBron is Magic 2.0 might be stretching it but not unreasonable.

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]Bird was a better shooter from first to last, and a better scorer. Magic really wasn't better than Bird at anything. Maybe dribbling. Like I said earlier, this one is too close to call. [/QUOTE]

I'm not sure, but if we're considering these guys at their respective bests, surely Doc deserves some play as well (though I think I'd go peak Bird, the two are very close IMO).

Magic had a more successful career & has the edge in longevity, but I believe Bird was the better player when both were at the top of their game.

Magic was a better transition player, ball handler, & passer (Bird was a fantastic passer as well), but that is where the advantages end for Magic.

Bird was a better shooter, he was a better scorer, better post game, better rebounder, he is the best passing forward in history, and he was a better overall defender than Magic. Bird could simply beat you in more ways.

[QUOTE=PotOdds]Magic was magic. There was a reason why his name was so apropos. Incredible passer, one of the best all-time, definitely better than Bird. Super efficient scorer. Well over 50% for most of his prime. He ended up .520 fg% lifetime. The shyt he did, like being the center in the championship game. Precursor to LeBron. Saying LeBron is Magic 2.0 might be stretching it but not unreasonable.[/QUOTE]
You won't get any argument from me about Magic Johnson.
I was in the stands, about 15000 rows behind "Shining Jack the Dull Boy's" seat when Kareem went back on court for the end of game 5 in that Finals.The whole of LA was cheering those last minutes!!
And then on tv tape delay while we went way out in the high desert drinking tequila .... the even more dramatic last game in Philly when Magic lined up for the tip, AND it was in the House that Wilt Built..... man the whole basketball world just went meltdown during that game!!

Bird was the better player, Magic did more winning but for the most part he had better teammates than Bird, the East was stronger (GOAT conference) and Sf's the same (GOAT era for Sf's), also that 1980 FMVP belonging to Kareem.

Bird was pretty much always the better player when they were both healthy, better peak also.
Bird was always considered the better player when they were both healthy, only time Magic beat him as far as MVP voting was in 1987.
When Bird got to the Celtics they were one of the worst teams in the league, Magic had a top3 GOAT in Kareem close to his peak, a really good and underrated PG in Nixon to learn from, and guys like Wilkes.
Bird got them from 2nd worst to best record, Finals in his 2nd year with the major addition of Parish, McHale only start to really break out like in 1984 and by 1987 had career ending injuries, Parish was pretty good, great longevity and consistent but you weren't getting more than his usual.


[QUOTE=eliteballer]Well, Magic repeatedly outplayed Peak Bird in the Finals despite being 3 years younger so...[/QUOTE]

lmao
Bird killed the Lakers in the 1984 despite his teammates (worse than Magic's) underperforming like a lot, with Magic choking.
Still great in 1985 despite hand injury.
Still took them to 6 games in 1987, already with back issues, and no team to compete.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]:roll: Bird couldn't guard ANYONE man to man. Magic could at least matchup with guys around his own size even if he had trouble with little guys....and he [B]led [/B]the league in steals.[/QUOTE]


Lmao, how old are you, 11?

Bird was a really good post defender and he could hold his own on the perimeter, his team D was amazing.

> 1st in the league in DWS and 6th in DRtg in 1980, no McHale or Parish on the team, got them from one of the worst defensive teams to one of the best, with the same team, no bigman blocking more than 1 shot or something like that, no other teammate even remotely close to him as far as DWS and DRtg

> 4 times led the league in DWS, 7 times in the top5
> 6 times in the top10 in DRtg, 2nd in 1984
> 1.7 spg and 0.8 bpg for his career

McHale never was top10 in DWS or DRtg, Parish in the mid 80's was not even blocking more than 1.5 shots pergame.
If it was today people would go wild over those advanced stats, he would make the all-defensive team everytime, to say the least of the crazyness.

Bird made 3 all-defensive teams and could've should've made more even though the league had some great defensive forwards with already established rep.
Magic never made the all-defensive team once, average defender in his best days, Bird always really good, not even comparable.

How underrated can this guy get defensively? Just crazy.

Larry was the better shooter from everywhere, better scorer, even better postgame, better rebounder, better defensive player, higher intangibles.
Magic was the better passer (and Bird's one of the GOAT passers), better handler and better finisher.

Bird was definitely the better player.
Magic got 2 more titles and won more FMVP but like I've said, he played in a weaker conference, had better teammates for the most part (wasn't even the clear cut man for plenty of time), Sf's better than Pg's in the league at that time, and Kareem deserved 1980 FMVP.
Bird was always above in MVP voting except for 1987 when they were healthy, was always 1st all-nba when he was healthy, 3 all-defensive also.

Magic's hype grew bigger because he's one of the most flashiest ever, really outspoken and always everywhere unlike Bird, black man in a black men's sport, played in LA...
People who know their shit or were alive back then know that when they were both healthy Bird was pretty much always the better player, better peak also.

Larry Legend

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Clearly not the case. Better, perhaps, but in Bird's greatest regular season, he had a horrible post-season, culminated by a pathetic performance against the Pistons, in which he shot .341 in a six game series loss. How did Magic perform against that Piston team? 21.6 ppg on .550 shooting.

If anything, the separation was much greater from '87 on, than what it was before that.

And people tend to forget that Magic could have been a much higher scorer. I believe Psileas commented that later in his career, Magic had a streak of 11 straight games of 30+ points. Of course, how about his game six of the '80 Finals, and without Kareem, when he scored 42 on 14-23 shooting (and 14-14 from the line)? Or a clinching game three against Hakeem's Rockets in the late 80's, in which he scored 38 points on 14-20 shooting.

Furthermore, Magic was a much more efficient shooter, particularly in the post-season. Bird never had a Finals in which he shot above .488 (and one in which he shot .419.) Magic had FIVE in which he shot over 50% including .573, .560, .550, and .541.[/QUOTE]

Talking about 1988? His better RS as far as raw stats only maybe, he already had plenty of severe injuries, had to carry all the load since 1986 when players where getting old, lots of injuries, Celtics had virtually no bench... He couldn't do more than he did between 1987 and 1988.

Bird's peak definitely tops Magic, and again when they were healthy he was the best player for the most part easily. Magic only was above him as far as MVP voting in 1987. Magic arrived at a great Lakers team with Kareem a top3 GOAT close to his peak, Nixo a great PG to learn from, Wilkes, adding other guys, Kareem was having one of the GOAT Finals in 1985 still.
Bird walked into a terrible Celtics team and made them one of the best and by 1987 they were done, not because of Bird.
Bird absolutely went crazy in the 1984 PS and go look at what his teammates did, absolutely underperforming.
Again Magic had better teammates, considering the years and their level, for the most part and played in a weaker conference and had weaker PG competition than Bird at Sf

You're underrating Bird here.

[QUOTE=9erempiree]Magic is a greatest of all time player.

Bird is an era-specific player.[/QUOTE]

9erempiree is an ISH specific poster.

Would not last 10 minutes on a moderated forum.

If KBlaze,RMWG or those guys could actually moderate this board I doubt you'd make the full 10 minutes. Too much foul stench swirling round the history of your posts.

Bird.

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]9erempiree is an ISH specific poster.

Would not last 10 minutes on a [B]moderated forum[/B].

If KBlaze,RMWG or those guys could actually moderate this board I doubt you'd make the full 10 minutes. Too much foul stench swirling round the history of your posts.[/QUOTE]

There are moderated forums?! Someone point me to one, cuz ISH is getting annoying.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Magic hit the floor running and was instantly ready for the spotlight and changing the look of the game.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes: Biggest one season turnaround ever (until 08 Celtics). That was Bird in his rookie year.

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT]Talking about 1988? His better RS as far as raw stats only maybe, he already had plenty of severe injuries, had to carry all the load since 1986 when players where getting old, lots of injuries, Celtics had virtually no bench... He couldn't do more than he did between 1987 and 1988.

Bird's peak definitely tops Magic, and again when they were healthy he was the best player for the most part easily. Magic only was above him as far as MVP voting in 1987. Magic arrived at a great Lakers team with Kareem a top3 GOAT close to his peak, Nixo a great PG to learn from, Wilkes, adding other guys, Kareem was having one of the GOAT Finals in 1985 still.
Bird walked into a terrible Celtics team and made them one of the best and by 1987 they were done, not because of Bird.
Bird absolutely went crazy in the 1984 PS and go look at what his teammates did, absolutely underperforming.
Again Magic had better teammates, considering the years and their level, for the most part and played in a weaker conference and had weaker PG competition than Bird at Sf

You're underrating Bird here.[/QUOTE]

Magic really was better than Bird their first 4 years, primarily because of playoff play - Bird always managed to have a real bad playoff series, then it was Bird's peak for three years and then Magic was better from '87 on. Eight better years to three in favor of Magic is too much to overlook.

If you say Magic gained a FMVP you have to give it back to him because Magic was definitely a much better player in the finals when Worthy won it.

In one of the Celtic championships Cedic Maxwell was the FMVP. And only those who really watched to the game would know who he was. Even when Bird was in his super peak prime Mchale definitely outplayed him in the 1985 finals when they lost to Magic/Lakers. Bird also had series where he outplayed in elimination series by Dr. J and Marques Johnson, which isn't bad but it proves he had a pretty slow start. There are at least two series where he and Big Game James were on par - only a slight edge to Bird. Bird's domination at the position wasn't really that long. But I definitely think his peak was most impressive.

[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]:rolleyes: Biggest one season turnaround ever (until 08 Celtics). That was Bird in his rookie year.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't talking about regular season pressure - read the next sentence it makes that very clear.

Magic maybe has a better career, but i think that Bird has a better peak.

1984-1986 Bird was unreal...and don't forget, in the middle 80's there was a lot of Bird talk on GOAT discussion...he was called GOAT by a lot of people...

To me, Bird is really underrated...

Magic was better than Bird.. Not by alot but he was the better player. They both had great players around them and magic beat bird head up more than vice versa.

[QUOTE=Le Shaqtus]:roll: :roll: :roll:

Where's that dumbest things said on ISH thread?[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239468[/url]

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Magic really was better than Bird their first 4 years, primarily because of playoff play - Bird always managed to have a real bad playoff series, then it was Bird's peak for three years and then Magic was better from '87 on. Eight better years to three in favor of Magic is too much to overlook.

If you say Magic gained a FMVP you have to give it back to him because Magic was definitely a much better player in the finals when Worthy won it.

In one of the Celtic championships Cedic Maxwell was the FMVP. And only those who really watched to the game would know who he was. Even when Bird was in his super peak prime Mchale definitely outplayed him in the 1985 finals when they lost to Magic/Lakers. Bird also had series where he outplayed in elimination series by Dr. J and Marques Johnson, which isn't bad but it proves he had a pretty slow start. There are at least two series where he and Big Game James were on par - only a slight edge to Bird. Bird's domination at the position wasn't really that long. But I definitely think his peak was most impressive.[/QUOTE]


Bird averaged 20.5/12.8/5.8/2.0/1.0 on 45/27/86, in his 1st 4 years in the ps
Magic averaged 17.8/10.3/10.3/2.7/0.5 on 50/9/81, in his first 4 years in the ps

Looking at their teammates

Bird's:
Parish - 17/10 with 2.7 blocks on 49/70, from 81 to 83
McHale - 12/5 with 1.6 blocks on 56/79, from 81 to 83
Maxwell - 16/8 on 57/78, from 80 to 83
Tiny - 13 pts with 6.7 assts on 44/83, from 80 to 83

Magic's:
Karem - 27/10/3 with 3.5 blocks on 55/73, from 80 to 83
Nixon - 19 with 7.6 assts on 48/77, from 80 to 83
Wilkes - 20/6 on 49/73, from 80 to 83
Mcadoo - 15/6 on 53% fg, from 82 to 83
Cooper - 10/4/4 on 48/80 and his usual great D, from 80 to 83

Magic easily had the better teammates plus they were playing better, and wasn't even the clear-cut man main, Kareem was for the most part.
Bird was the clearcut main man and leader, definitely played better overall D also, faced also better overall competition in the East.
Yea Magic won two Finals and two MVPs (one belonging to Kareem), but Bird still managed to win a title with a team that was terrible before him, adding Parish and McHale (who was still young and not playing much) in his 2nd year. Can't see how Magic is REALLY better, in any way. Plus in the regular season it's easily Bird and that means something also.

I won't go against that, but it was close and Worthy had that amazing decisive game 7, much close than Magic to Kareem in 1980. What Kareem did in 5 games in the 80 Finals (not to mention the rest of the playoffs and so on) was more impactful and better than what Magic did in 6. There wouldn't even be a game 6 if it wasn't for Kareem, and he would've returned in game 7 to finish them and continue the destruction. Plus Wilkes also had an amazing game 6 that goes overlooked.

I've watched those games, Bird struggled in plenty of them with his shooting while Maxwell scored like 2.5 ppg more than Bird, much more efficient from the field, was more clutch and consistent than Bird as far as scoring throughout the series, but Bird easily trumps in every other aspect, he put up 15 rebounds, 7 assts, 2.3 blocks and 0.5, always grittier and tougher playing better D.
Many of Cedric's (easy) points came from Bird's playmaking and from Larry getting all the attention, no superstar talent on that team or close besides him, Parish was solid not much, Tiny played like crap.
Bird put up 27/13/5 on 11/20 from the field in the decisive game 6, clutch as hell in the 4th, leading the celtics. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoXOAs4Gz5A[/url]
He could've easily gotten FMVP.

Are you gonna overlook the fact that Bird badly injured his hand in a bar fight during the 1985 playoffs, there's not much to say about it, still averaged 24/9/5 on 45/33/85. In 1984 he completely destroyed the Lakers with every teammate really underperforming, think it would be any different in 1985 if he was healthy? Still Kareem had to had one of GOAT Finals in 1985 for the Lakers to beat the Celtics.
In 87 the Celtics were dealing with injuries and had no bench whatsoever, Bird played 40.6 mpg in the rs and 44.1 in the ps, having some of the most gruelsome series ever before the Finals, see what he did vs the Pistons for example, they wouldn't even get to the Finals if he wasn't for him giving his all and playing like crazy, while the Lakers just had to coast on their way to the Finals. Leading them the Celtics still took one of the GOAT teams to 6 games, Bird still put up 24/10/6 on 45/50/92.
Are you really gonna compare Worthy to Bird? Worthy had like only one series where he matches up to Bird as far as scoring when Bird had an injured hand, Bird much better in every other aspect always and he was 1st option, getting much more attention.

Bird's domination at the position not that long? Lmao gtfo, when he was healthy(er), 1980-1988, he was always all-nba 1st, 7 times top 2 in MVP, completely changed the Celtics to much better, playing in the goat era, playing in the goat era for Sf's, in the goat conference, plenty of times teammates underperforming, plenty of times playing against better teams on paper.

Please post their total averages of the 3 head to head finals they played in and keep in mind Magic was 3 Years younger and won 2 out of 3:D

Magic thinks it's him

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oShf9yw7leg[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VqmWu7cwDo[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B25hiGoeVts[/url]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7][url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239468[/url][/QUOTE]

:cheers:

As far as Bird's '88 season, it was one of his best, with the only decline at all appearing to be at the defensive end to some extent. But he got in better shape entering that season and his offensive game was at it's peak as it had been the last few years due to extensive work on his shooting and individual moves over the first half of his career.

As far as an explanation for Bird's playoff series vs Detroit, well, here's what was said by commentators during the games in both the Atlanta and Detroit series as well as quotes I've read from Bird himself.

What was talked about a lot with Boston that year. They had virtually no bench at all. If you look in the playoffs, 3 of their 5 starters played 40+ mpg with Bird averaging 45 mpg, a 4th starter averaging 39.4 mpg and Robert Parish averaging 36.8 mpg. Bird also had to carry Boston more during the first month of the series since McHale didn't play until December.

They were also coming off of 4 consecutive deep playoff runs to the finals, and fatigue was also talked about after the 7 game series vs Atlanta as well as Bird apparently being sick early in the Detroit series.

Regarding Bird's shooting struggles, Bird himself said he was second-guessing his shots at time. I think it was fatigue at first, but that the slump also got into his head. If you watch the series, you'll see at times that Bird took a few uncharacteristic shots for him, which even the commentators noted, as well as the fact that he didn't look as comfortable shooting at times.

Don't get me wrong, Bird does deserve criticism for shooting 35%, especially in series that would have been winnable despite Detroit's depth if Bird had shot decently. Just trying to provide a little insight into how prime Bird shot just 35% in a series, especially after a season he had averaged 30/9/6 on 53/41/92 shooting which is hard to imagine. Though I will say that Bird played very well in every other area. He passed well as usual, he defended Dantley well and played good team defense and he rebounded very well. The Celtics still needed Bird to shoot much better so it's still a poor series for him, but he was impressive in other areas.

Here are a couple of excerpts from an article about Bird's slump.

[QUOTE]A cabdriver outside Boston Garden said he had heard reports that Larry Bird had undergone tests for mononucleosis.

A bellhop at the hotel said: ''Do you notice how tired Bird looks? I haven't seen him looking this way since the Celtics were swept by the Milwaukee Bucks in the 1983 conference semifinal.''

What prompted such speculation among Celtic fans was Bird's second successive poor shooting performance, Thursday night in the Eastern Conference final against the Detroit Pistons. Bird was 8 for 20 from the floor in Game 1 Wednesday night, and the Celtics suffered a rare home loss, 104-96. On Thursday, he shot 6 for 20, and the Celtics needed two overtimes to pull out a 119-115 victory and send the series to Detroit tied, 1-1.

Before the Celtics won, they set up Bird twice to try to win the game. Most times, Bird, one of the best clutch shooters in basketball, comes through. But he failed on a 17-foot jumper with 10 seconds remaining in regulation time and was called for traveling in the first overtime with the score tied, 109-109. Unusual Route to Victory[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]''I don't know what Larry's problem is,'' said K. C. Jones, the Celtic coach, after the game Thursday night. ''His arm motion does not look familiar to me when he's firing it up. He had one of the poorest outside shooting nights I've ever seen him have.''

Bird and the people around him deny any health problems. But Bird has never made excuses for poor games. After several poor-shooting games in the series against the Atlanta Hawks, Bird was repeatedly asked if he had a head cold. He denied it, although it was obvious that he had one.

When asked again Thursday night if anything was troubling him, Bird said: ''I feel great. I played hard on the defensive end. I was just second-guessing my shots. I was getting my usual picks but I was thinking whether I should shoot or pass.''[/QUOTE]

[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/28/sports/nba-playoffs-bird-making-no-excuses-for-his-slump.html"]http://www.nytimes.com/1988/05/28/sports/nba-playoffs-bird-making-no-excuses-for-his-slump.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT]Bird was the better player, Magic did more winning but for the most part he had better teammates than Bird, the East was stronger (GOAT conference) and Sf's the same (GOAT era for Sf's), also that 1980 FMVP belonging to Kareem.

Bird was pretty much always the better player when they were both healthy, better peak also.
Bird was always considered the better player when they were both healthy, only time Magic beat him as far as MVP voting was in 1987.
When Bird got to the Celtics they were one of the worst teams in the league, Magic had a top3 GOAT in Kareem close to his peak, a really good and underrated PG in Nixon to learn from, and guys like Wilkes.
Bird got them from 2nd worst to best record, Finals in his 2nd year with the major addition of Parish, McHale only start to really break out like in 1984 and by 1987 had career ending injuries, Parish was pretty good, great longevity and consistent but you weren't getting more than his usual.




lmao
Bird killed the Lakers in the 1984 despite his teammates (worse than Magic's) underperforming like a lot, with Magic choking.
Still great in 1985 despite hand injury.
Still took them to 6 games in 1987, already with back issues, and no team to compete.[/QUOTE]

uh.. the celtics probably had the best front court in nba history during this time frame..

Bird is better.

Magic isn't even the best Laker in that Showtime teams - Kareem was. So Magic's success is due to the fact that he rode a GOAT's coattail. Plus his rings after David Stern took office are all tainted and asterisked.

The only things Magic is better than Bird is passing and getting AIDS.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Yet, I am supposed to believe a Bird would be nothing more than a Scalabrine in today's NBA?

Makes no sense. Didn't Bird play in an era of MJ, Dr.J, Magic, Isaiah, Kareem, Moses, Hakeem, Dominque, etc? And yet he was considered the best player in the league in a few of those seasons? But then, perhaps, mayeb you are suggesting that all of those guys would be scrubs in today's NBA.[/QUOTE]
No doubt, Bird was a great player in his era.. That's why he's one of the candidate for GOAT era-specific player.. The problem with era-specific player are they're only great in their era.. Their game would not transcend in any era unlike all time great player like Magic, MJ, Hakeem, KAJ... Most of the era-specific player came from the 50s, 60s and the most known era-specific player in that era were Bill Russel and Wilt Chamberlain..
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Maybe someone can explain "era-specific player" to me.[/QUOTE]
I know you're a smart poster from April 2013 batch.. Hopes you already understand what is an era-specific player.. :cheers:

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Please post their total averages of the 3 head to head finals they played in and keep in mind Magic was 3 Years younger and won 2 out of 3:D[/QUOTE]
Why are you acting like an idiot constantly?

Aside from 1984 Finals, the Celtics had no depth in their bench. So does Bird. Especially 1987 Finals, the Celtics had no bench literally. They were just throwing some players(garbage-time players mostly) to the field so the main guys can rest.

Also Bird and the Celtics were getting roughed up by the strong ECF teams and some serious matchups (Erving and Wilkins are first ones that came to mind), the West was a joke back then. They didn't have a bench and they got to the Finals with expending much more energy.


But here is the numbers;
Bird; 42.1 mpg 25.3 ppg 11.1 rpg 4.6 apg 1.7 spg 1.0 bpg 2.9 tpg 19.2 fga 8.1 fta on .475 efg .864 ft (29.3 eff)
Magic; 40.3 mpg 20.7 ppg 7.5 rpg 11.9 apg 2.2 spg 0.4 bpg 3.4 tpg 15.2 fga 5.2 fta on .536 efg .778 ft (31.1 eff)


But if I know about somethings about uncontrolled fans like you, you will not change your attitude and say some bs about their mpg.

[QUOTE=Odinn]Why are you acting like an idiot constantly?
[/QUOTE]

He's not. He's a kobetard. He's a real idiot.

[B]Bird Was Better and Was a Better Defender than Magic.

Bird Was NOT an Era Specific Player He Averaged 20-9-6 at age 35 in 1992.[/B]

[QUOTE=Odinn]Why are you acting like an idiot constantly?

Aside from 1984 Finals, the Celtics had no depth in their bench. So does Bird. Especially 1987 Finals, the Celtics had no bench literally. They were just throwing some players(garbage-time players mostly) to the field so the main guys can rest.

Also Bird and the Celtics were getting roughed up by the strong ECF teams and some serious matchups (Erving and Wilkins are first ones that came to mind), the West was a joke back then. They didn't have a bench and they got to the Finals with expending much more energy.


But here is the numbers;
Bird; 42.1 mpg 25.3 ppg 11.1 rpg 4.6 apg 1.7 spg 1.0 bpg 2.9 tpg 19.2 fga 8.1 fta on .475 efg .864 ft (29.3 eff)
Magic; 40.3 mpg 20.7 ppg 7.5 rpg 11.9 apg 2.2 spg 0.4 bpg 3.4 tpg 15.2 fga 5.2 fta on .536 efg .778 ft (31.1 eff)


But if I know about somethings about uncontrolled fans like you, you will not change your attitude and say some bs about their mpg.[/QUOTE]

Now why would I change my mind when those numbers back up what I'm saying? Magic blows him away especially in the efficiency department.

Magic averaged 21.5 points 11.2 rebs, 8.7 ast, 2.7 stl on 57% FG in the 1980 Finals as a 20 year old rookie. Know what Bird was doing at that age? Playing against boys 2 years before Magic would beat him in the NCAA championship.

Magic won more, he BEAT AND OUTPLAYED PEAK BIRD MULTIPLE TIMES ON THE BIGGEST STAGE WHILE BEING 3 YEARS YOUNGER. He could play all 5 positions and was more versatile because of his ballhandling ability, and was BY FAR a bigger mismatch.

The West had PLENT of competition.

The Defending champion Sonics in 1980
Drexler's Blazers
Robinson/Nance/Johnson Suns cracking 50 wins every year.
Sampson/Hakeem Rockets
Blackman Mavs
Stockton/Malone Jazz
Gilmore/Gervin Spurs

[QUOTE=Odinn]Why are you acting like an idiot constantly?

Aside from 1984 Finals, the Celtics had no depth in their bench. So does Bird. Especially 1987 Finals, the Celtics had no bench literally. They were just throwing some players(garbage-time players mostly) to the field so the main guys can rest.

Also Bird and the Celtics were getting roughed up by the strong ECF teams and some serious matchups (Erving and Wilkins are first ones that came to mind), the West was a joke back then. They didn't have a bench and they got to the Finals with expending much more energy.


But here is the numbers;
Bird; 42.1 mpg 25.3 ppg 11.1 rpg 4.6 apg 1.7 spg 1.0 bpg 2.9 tpg 19.2 fga 8.1 fta on .475 efg .864 ft (29.3 eff)
Magic; 40.3 mpg 20.7 ppg 7.5 rpg 11.9 apg 2.2 spg 0.4 bpg 3.4 tpg 15.2 fga 5.2 fta on .536 efg .778 ft (31.1 eff)


But if I know about somethings about uncontrolled fans like you, you will not change your attitude and say some bs about their mpg.[/QUOTE]

Bird also had a number of injuries in the '85 finals, and he had missed a couple of games earlier in the playoffs because of some of those injuries, iirc. Bird himself would never use injuries as an excuse, but I think it's pretty clear that they were a factor in the '85 finals.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan]Sure.

"era specific" is a term coined by Kobe stans, lakers stans.

[B]It is applied to any all-timer who shoots 50%FG or is insanely efficient or ULTRA CLUTCH in post-season & finals.[/B]

this makes kobe's ball hogging, chucking 25ppg career ave at 45%FG look PATHETIC & to deliberately protect kobe's INFLATED legacy, these all-timers automatically become "era specific"

Thats about it.

Examples of "era specific" players according to Kobe'tards

1.Bird
2.moses
3.Dr. J
4.Sir. Charles
5.D'Rob
6.Hakeem
7.Duncan

list goes on & on. Any player thats all-time Top 10-18 with exception of Bird.[/QUOTE]

That's funny because Kobe is the biggest era specific player of all time.

[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Bird also had a number of injuries in the '85 finals, and he had missed a couple of games earlier in the playoffs because of some of those injuries, iirc. Bird himself would never use injuries as an excuse, but I think it's pretty clear that they were a factor in the '85 finals.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol: Maybe we should just ignore Magic's injury in 81, Worthy's injury in 83, Magic and Scott's injuries in 89, Worthy and Scott's injuries in 91, give him 9 titles and call it a day.