Top ten players in the NBA?

1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Howard
4. CP3
5. Westbrook
6. Melo
7. Rose
8. Curry
9. Kobe
10. Duncan

Before you guys crucify me for putting Durant as #1, I think he's finally primed to have a breakout season in terms of statistical dominance. With the loss of Kmart, I think Durant realizes he's going to have to take on more of a scoring load and at least in the perception of the general public, Durant will be considered the best player. I still think Lebron is going to be overall better, but his stats will look worse because he has more help.

[QUOTE=scm5]1. Durant
2. Lebron
3. Howard
4. CP3
5. Westbrook
6. Melo
7. Rose
8. Curry
9. Kobe
10. Duncan

Before you guys crucify me for putting Durant as #1, I think he's finally primed to have a breakout season in terms of statistical dominance. With the loss of Kmart, I think Durant realizes he's going to have to take on more of a scoring load and at least in the perception of the general public, Durant will be considered the best player. I still think Lebron is going to be overall better, but his stats will look worse because he has more help.[/QUOTE]

You're trying too hard to go against the grain. Durant could win the MVP and the vast majority will still consider LeBron the best player in the game (ala Shaq, Jordan).

[QUOTE=retaxis]

1. LBJ
2. Durant:roll:
3. Howard
[B]4. Carmelo
5. Westbrook
6. Rondo[/B]
7. Rose
8. TP
9. Wade
10. Paul George[/QUOTE]


:roll:

[QUOTE=The JKidd Kid][B]Because they were elite players last season and they arnt going to just drop off, and you have to assume they will be elite until they actually show decline[/B]. Do you think that NBA coaches are thinking that Kobe is going to suck when he comes back? No, they're preparing for his same old dominant self.

I also didn't put Rondo, who is one of the most flawed players in the league, at #6.[/QUOTE]
Then why did you leave off Wade? Most people had him in the top 5 during stretches last year. If you're going to say that he declined, due to his playoff performace, he didn't. He was injured.

Also, Kobe doesn't play elite defense. He hardly played defense last year.
CP3 didn't average 20 and 10. His numbers were 16.9 and 9.7. If you're going to round them up, it should be 17 and 10.
Deron Willams in the top 10? Have you seen him play defense?

1. Lebron - Obvious reasons.
2. Durant - Same as Lebron.
3. Dwight Howard - An injured Howard put up 17/12/3 on 58%. He's healthy now.
4. Carmelo - Scoring championship with 7 RPG.
5. Westbrook/Wade - Wade takes the spot if he develops his game and gets better as promised.
6. CP3/Wade - Same reason as above.
7/8. Harden - He sucks on defense, but averaged pretty crazy numbers.
7/8. Duncan - Until proven otherwise, he's a top 10 player.
9. Tony Parker - One of the better PG's.
10. Paul George - Good offensive players and a great defender.

James
Durant
Bryant
Rose
Parker
Paul
Melo
Howard
Westbrook
Duncan

[QUOTE=GrapeApe]You're trying too hard to go against the grain. Durant could win the MVP and the vast majority will still consider LeBron the best player in the game (ala Shaq, Jordan).[/QUOTE]

So you're telling me that if Durant averages 32/9/5 on 50/40/90 next season and Lebron averages 25/8/7, people won't see Durant as better?

Durant scored 28.1ppg on 17.7fga last season. With the loss of Kmart, I'm sure he's going to put up over 20fga and increase his scoring output.

Keep in mind, Durant will improve. He's still only 24 years old. He's going to be a monster and will eventually overtake Lebron. It might even happen next season.

[QUOTE=scm5]So you're telling me that if Durant averages 32/9/5 on 50/40/90 next season and Lebron averages 25/8/7, people won't see Durant as better?

Durant scored 28.1ppg on 17.7fga last season. With the loss of Kmart, I'm sure he's going to put up over 20fga and increase his scoring output.

Keep in mind, Durant will improve. He's still only 24 years old. He's going to be a monster and will eventually overtake Lebron. It might even happen next season.[/QUOTE]
No way lol lebron just won 2 straight titles

We still pretending Durant is the 2nd best player in the league?

[QUOTE=NumberSix]We still pretending Durant is the 2nd best player in the league?[/QUOTE]

Aside from Lebron, who is better than Durant?

[QUOTE=NumberSix]We still pretending Durant is the 2nd best player in the league?[/QUOTE]
Who's better? All the other top players are coming off injuries.

[QUOTE=scm5]So you're telling me that if Durant averages 32/9/5 on 50/40/90 next season and Lebron averages 25/8/7, people won't see Durant as better?

Durant scored 28.1ppg on 17.7fga last season. With the loss of Kmart, I'm sure he's going to put up over 20fga and increase his scoring output.

Keep in mind, Durant will improve. He's still only 24 years old. He's going to be a monster and will eventually overtake Lebron. It might even happen next season.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and people used to think Penny and Grant Hill would takeover as the best players in the league. It doesn't always work out that way and new players come along to take the #1 spot.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Yeah, and people used to think Penny and Grant Hill would takeover as the best players in the league. It doesn't always work out that way and new players come along to take the #1 spot.[/QUOTE]

Well, you're leaving out that they were injured. They may have been there if they didn't get injured. Its not like new players came along and overtook them while they were healthy. Don't get me wrong, I think the both of them are overrated as shit when people say outlandish shit like they were as good as Kobe or Lebron have been. But you can make the argument that they were already top 5 in the league at some point in their career before they got injured. Unless you think Durant is going to get injured or that there's someone else thats on their way to being better then him, which I don't see at all, then I don't understand what argument there is for him not to be #2.

I don't understand why it so assumed that Durant is going to get all that much better.

[QUOTE=guy]Well, you're leaving out that they were injured. They may have been there if they didn't get injured. Its not like new players came along and overtook them while they were healthy. Don't get me wrong, I think the both of them are overrated as shit when people say outlandish shit like they were as good as Kobe or Lebron have been. But you can make the argument that they were already top 5 in the league at some point in their career before they got injured. Unless you think Durant is going to get injured or that there's someone else thats on their way to being better then him, which I don't see at all, then I don't understand what argument there is for him not to be #2.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Not only that, but at least statistically, Durant is right there with Lebron.

Advanced statistics in defense also put Durant's defense at or above Lebron's level.

Durant's team is just getting worse and worse. What people don't realize is that Durant was only 23 years old when he went to the Finals against Lebron who was 27. After that, OKC has been making bad decisions or losing players to injury (WB).

[QUOTE=guy]Well, you're leaving out that they were injured. They may have been there if they didn't get injured. Its not like new players came along and overtook them while they were healthy. Don't get me wrong, I think the both of them are overrated as shit when people say outlandish shit like they were as good as Kobe or Lebron have been. But you can make the argument that they were already top 5 in the league at some point in their career before they got injured. Unless you think Durant is going to get injured or that there's someone else thats on their way to being better then him, which I don't see at all, then I don't understand what argument there is for him not to be #2.[/QUOTE]
Who's to say Durant won't be another Vince Carter or T-Mac? There's ALWAYS a "the next guy" or two who ends up doing nothing. My opinion is that Durants ceiling is being the Karl Malone of this era.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Who's to say Durant won't be another Vince Carter or T-Mac? There's ALWAYS a "the next guy" or two who ends up doing nothing. My opinion is that Durants ceiling is being the Karl Malone of this era.[/QUOTE]

It's not very likely that he will become another VC or Tmac, but you can go ahead and assume the worst for him.

At his current pace though, Durant is going to become something very special.

[QUOTE=scm5]It's not very likely that he will become another VC or Tmac, but you can go ahead and assume the worst for him.

At his current pace though, Durant is going to become something very special.[/QUOTE]
Assuming the worst is no more unlikely than assuming the best. Actually, failing to live up to expectations is a lot more common than surpassing them.

Durant isn't a dominant enough player to start winning rings. Like NumberSix basically said, I think the Thunder are the Utah Jazz of this era. They will be deep in the playoffs every year and play in a few Finals. But I don't see them ever winning it all.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Assuming the worst is no more unlikely than assuming the best. Actually, failing to live up to expectations is a lot more common than surpassing them.[/QUOTE]

Durant has had a great track record since coming into the league. He's gotten better each year and has added more to his game.

He's known as a hard worker, and so I would say it's actually more likely based on his past that he will be better.

LeBron has built up a lot of equity as the best player in the game. He's reached the point where one modest statistical season won't change that perception, even if Durant (or anyone) puts up monster numbers. Like I said, he may not win MVP next year but he'll still be ragarded as the best player in the league.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Who's to say Durant won't be another Vince Carter or T-Mac? There's ALWAYS a "the next guy" or two who ends up doing nothing. My opinion is that Durants ceiling is being the Karl Malone of this era.[/QUOTE]

Well, he's already led his team to the Finals and two WCFs, hasn't been injury prone, and there hasn't been any questions about his effort or work ethic. At this pace, he's clearly going to surpass them. Of course, you're right, pace doesn't necessarily mean shit, but there's not much reason to assume he won't surpass them.

You'd have a point to ask if Durant should still be the second best player in the league, if you could provide someone who would inarguably deserve that over him.

[QUOTE=guy]At this pace, he's clearly going to surpass them.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, if he hasn't already in most people's eyes.

[QUOTE=DaSeba5]I still can't believe they lost to Chicago's bench on their home floor in a game 7[/QUOTE]
Then you don't follow basketball or know the game well.

Chicago was the favorite going in and why I predicted they would win in 6 or 7.

-Chicago won the season series 3-1 (9-3 vs. Miami, NY and BK last season)
-Boozer dominated Evans every game he played against BK.
-Noah is the best defensive center in the East along with Hibbert.
-Thibs the best coach in the East with the best system, thus it doesn't matter who plays (kind of why Rose could miss half a season 2 years ago and they still have the best record)
-Chicago had years of playoff experience together, BK none
-Wallace and Evans were the worst forward tandem in the NBA
-PJC probably the worst coach in the NBA (3rd worst record of all time)

Chicago was the worst match-up other than Miami for the Nets.
Fortunately they've address most of those weaknesses.

It was pretty simple to see the outcome of that series ahead of time, though I was surprised the Nets came back from down 3-1 to tie it and Lopez played as well as he did in 1st playoffs.

BTW.. it wasn't their bench as 3/5 starters were playing, can't really count Rose being out since he was out all year.

1. LBJ
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Howard
5. Rose
6. Melo
7. Harden
8. Duncan
9. Dirk
10. Wade

[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Great post. Watching the finals, Parker can be more noticeable with his shots in the lane and dribbling around defenders. But Duncan is the guy you're legit afraid of down the stretch. The guy anchored their defense all series and was a monster on offense at times. There was a point i would be shocked when he missed a shot.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I completely agree about Parker being more noticeable.

Parker's style of play is more entertaining to some than Duncan's but Timmy does so many other things that are often unheralded in today's league like great help defense, effective screen setting and just knowing how to play the game.

I am going to miss him when he retires, so I enjoyed watching true greatness have a resurgence last year at his age.

When healthy:

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Derrick Rose
4. Chris Paul
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Russell Westbrook
8. Tony Parker
9. Carmelo Anthony
10. Dwyane Wade

Lebron
Durant
CP3
Kobe
Wade
Dwight
Westbrook
Harden
Rose
Duncan

All Healthy:

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Dwight Howard
5. Derrick Rose
6. Tim Duncan
7. Carmelo Anthony
8. James Harden
9. Dwyane Wade
10. Kobe Bryant


Something like that

[QUOTE=ChuckOakley]Then you don't follow basketball or know the game well.

Chicago was the favorite going in and why I predicted they would win in 6 or 7.

-Chicago won the season series 3-1 (9-3 vs. Miami, NY and BK last season)
-Boozer dominated Evans every game he played against BK.
-Noah is the best defensive center in the East along with Hibbert.
-Thibs the best coach in the East with the best system, thus it doesn't matter who plays (kind of why Rose could miss half a season 2 years ago and they still have the best record)
-Chicago had years of playoff experience together, BK none
-Wallace and Evans were the worst forward tandem in the NBA
-PJC probably the worst coach in the NBA (3rd worst record of all time)

Chicago was the worst match-up other than Miami for the Nets.
Fortunately they've address most of those weaknesses.

It was pretty simple to see the outcome of that series ahead of time, though I was surprised the Nets came back from down 3-1 to tie it and Lopez played as well as he did in 1st playoffs.

BTW.. it wasn't their bench as 3/5 starters were playing, can't really count Rose being out since he was out all year.[/QUOTE]

Ummm season series doesn't mean much, especially if its 3-1, and half the Bulls were sick or injured, some not even playing, for much of the series. And I don't remember the Bulls being favored, which wouldn't even matter anyway, cause there's no way they would've been favored if we knew about the health issues they would have. There's no good excuse for them to lose that series.

[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]I think you overrated Deron. He is a nice PG. But he isn't a great defender and doesn't always play hard. The guy is kind of a whiny bitch. I don't think CP3 would have lost to Nate Robinson's Bulls.[/QUOTE]

They were Noah's Bulls, and I don't think Deron would lose to the spurs by 60 on his home floor.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Then why did you leave off Wade? Most people had him in the top 5 during stretches last year. If you're going to say that he declined, due to his playoff performace, he didn't. He was injured.

Also, Kobe doesn't play elite defense. He hardly played defense last year.
CP3 didn't average 20 and 10. His numbers were 16.9 and 9.7. If you're going to round them up, it should be 17 and 10.
Deron Willams in the top 10? Have you seen him play defense?

1. Lebron - Obvious reasons.
2. Durant - Same as Lebron.
3. Dwight Howard - An injured Howard put up 17/12/3 on 58%. He's healthy now.
4. Carmelo - Scoring championship with 7 RPG.
5. Westbrook/Wade - Wade takes the spot if he develops his game and gets better as promised.
6. CP3/Wade - Same reason as above.
7/8. Harden - He sucks on defense, but averaged pretty crazy numbers.
7/8. Duncan - Until proven otherwise, he's a top 10 player.
9. Tony Parker - One of the better PG's.
10. Paul George - Good offensive players and a great defender.[/QUOTE]

The funniest part is that you talk about Derons defense which is actually very good according to stats but you put in Tony Parker who is an unathletic, small and weak PG.

I forgot about Wade, my bad.

[QUOTE=guy]Ummm season series doesn't mean much, especially if its 3-1, and half the Bulls were sick or injured, some not even playing, for much of the series. And I don't remember the Bulls being favored, which wouldn't even matter anyway, cause there's no way they would've been favored if we knew about the health issues they would have. There's no good excuse for them to lose that series.[/QUOTE]

There is no excuse, it was absolutely disgusting. The only players that actually gave it their all were Deron and Blatche. Brook let an injured Noah molest him in the paint, Joes lack of offensive play allowed the Bulls to put Jimmy Butler on Deron, Reggie Evans let Boozer dominate him on both the boards and on offense, Wallace's inability to shoot allowed the Bulls to clog the paint, CJ Watson single handedly cost them a game, the coaching was awful etc. It was an absolutely disgusting performance outside of Blatche and Deron, there was no sense of urgency, everyone was just walking up the court like it was a regular season game against the Bobcats.

Hopefully this offseason, they solved al their problems.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Who's to say Durant won't be another Vince Carter or T-Mac? There's ALWAYS a "the next guy" or two who ends up doing nothing. My opinion is that Durants ceiling is being the Karl Malone of this era.[/QUOTE]
Shut up. Durant is probably going to end up as a top 10 player of all time by the time he retires. If Westbrook wasn't hurt, they would have taken spurs to at least 6 games in WCF, they wouldn't have won because harden was a big factor in them winning over spurs in 2012.
Duran't 2012 finals numbers were pretty great. if that OKC team met 2013 playoff heat team, i would put my money on OKC to take the series to at least 7 games. If wade played like he did in 2012 playoffs by putting up 22PPG, heat would have probably not lost a single game till they met the spurs in finals. 2012 Heat team was very strong and durant shouldn't feel that bad about losing to that team. He played really well and put up great numbers.

[QUOTE=The JKidd Kid]The funniest part is that you talk about Derons defense which is actually very good according to stats but you put in Tony Parker who is an unathletic, small and weak PG.

I forgot about Wade, my bad.[/QUOTE]
Parker might not be great defensively but he is really athletic. He probably runs the most on the court.

[QUOTE=Rose'sACL]Parker might not be great defensively but he is really athletic. He probably runs the most on the court.[/QUOTE]

Parker weighs like 170 pounds and has a 20 inch vert. Hes your typical defensive liability at the PG position, not to mention that Deron is also a better shooter and Passer than Parker and he doesn't have the gift of playing in Greg Popovics system.

[QUOTE=The JKidd Kid]Parker weighs like 170 pounds and has a 20 inch vert. Hes your typical defensive liability at the PG position, not to mention that Deron is also a better shooter and Passer than Parker and he doesn't have the gift of playing in Greg Popovics system.[/QUOTE]
but he is athletic which is what i am saying. also, parker is a decent shooter now. Also, i don't think Deron can play under Pop.

[QUOTE=Rose'sACL]but he is athletic which is what i am saying. also, parker is a decent shooter now. Also, i don't think Deron can play under Pop.[/QUOTE]

Anyone can play under Pop, he could make Average PGs like Jeff Teague and Devin Harris into stars. Heck, I could probably average a good 2 points per game in the NBA if I played for him.

Dwight is not even a top 30 player in the league.

[QUOTE=The JKidd Kid]Parker weighs like 170 pounds and has a 20 inch vert. Hes your typical defensive liability at the PG position, not to mention that Deron is also a better shooter and Passer than Parker and he doesn't have the gift of playing in Greg Popovics system.[/QUOTE]
Parker may be a 'defensive liability' but his opponents are always bigger defensive liabilities when playing him if you get what I mean.

[QUOTE=Horde of Temujin]Dwight is not even a top 30 player in the league.[/QUOTE]
In 2011 and 2012 when Dwight was healthy he was a top 3 player in the league. Now after an injury-ridden season, people start hating on him. He may be mentally soft but you can't deny his talent.