Knick just wasting time with Woodson?

[QUOTE=Clutch]They are equally or even more talented than the last year's team that got to the 2nd round.

Who did we lose ?
Novak - no talent,just shooting
Copeland - replaced by Tim Hardaway who's even more talented
and a bunch of old guys - Kidd,Camby,Kurt,Sheed

Basically the only talented guy that left was replaced by more talent in Tim Hardaway Jr. and Andrea Bargnani.

If the old guys were the difference between Knicks being a 2nd round team and being a lottery team then it's obvious - COACH DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING.
Obviously the old guys were the coaches on the floor and in the locker room and Woodson got the credit for team's success. Now that they are gone,the leadership and coaching is gone and Woodson is exposed.

If you're saying that losing a bunch of old guys who weren't playing a lot is difference between being a 2nd round team and a lottery team then you're basically saying WOODSON SUCKS.[/QUOTE]
I truly believe you're underestimating the old guys.

Everyone from melo to Woody JR and others have stated they miss them.

They werent just old, they were smart...basketball-wise, and that helps get you through the regular season.

melo still does the Sheed "three to the dome"....kidd might have been the coach the whole season.



Now as far as the player you listed above...no one hits the three even remotely close to Novak, and I betcha melo especially misses that space Novak created by having a man draped on him on the three point line, something bargnani has not replaced at all

hardaway might have replaced Cope...maybe.

This team has paper talent..on the court it's much worse.

[QUOTE=knickscity]I truly believe you're underestimating the old guys.

Everyone from melo to Woody JR and others have stated they miss them.

They werent just old, they were smart...basketball-wise, and that helps get you through the regular season.

melo still does the Sheed "three to the dome"....kidd might have been the coach the whole season.



Now as far as the player you listed above...no one hits the three even remotely close to Novak, and I betcha melo especially misses that space Novak created by having a man draped on him on the three point line, something bargnani has not replaced at all

hardaway might have replaced Cope...maybe.

This team has paper talent..on the court it's much worse.[/QUOTE]
[B]Novak barely played the last 3 months of the season. Copeland got most of the time that's why I mentioned him.

Clutch I was going to post this before but shouldnt this be Melo's team? Shouldnt he hold others accountable on the floor and in the locker room. Sorry but you talked about everyone but Melo and that doesnt fly with me.

Copeland was better than Hardaway dont even see how you can compare the 2. Copeland should have been getting minutes way before Chandler went down. I know he messed up defensively sometimes but most of the Knicks messes up except Shump generally.

And yes you usually build a team and a star develops. Or you build a team and a add a star.[/B]

[QUOTE=knickscity]I truly believe you're underestimating the old guys.
Everyone from melo to Woody JR and others have stated they miss them.
They werent just old, they were smart...basketball-wise, and that helps get you through the regular season.
melo still does the Sheed "three to the dome"....kidd might have been the coach the whole season.
Now as far as the player you listed above...no one hits the three even remotely close to Novak, and I betcha melo especially misses that space Novak created by having a man draped on him on the three point line, something bargnani has not replaced at all
hardaway might have replaced Cope...maybe.
This team has paper talent..on the court it's much worse.[/QUOTE]
I'm not underestimating the old guys. I don't know their true impact on this team. But I know if they're the reason why this team went from 54-28 (.659) to 20-32 (.385) then that basically says "Woodson doesn't know how to coach so he needs veteran guys to do it for him".

Novak was absolutely amazing two seasons ago. Last year he was meh,especially at the end of the year. He shot 42.5% from three last season,in his last 22 games he shot 39.5%. That's good but it's nothing special for a guy who can only do one thing,shoot. For example,Melo this season shoots 41.6% for three and he takes a bunch of contested ones and he's not even primarily a 3-pt shooter.

[QUOTE=Rameek][B]Novak barely played the last 3 months of the season. Copeland got most of the time that's why I mentioned him.

Clutch I was going to post this before but shouldnt this be Melo's team? Shouldnt he hold others accountable on the floor and in the locker room. Sorry but you talked about everyone but Melo and that doesnt fly with me.

Copeland was better than Hardaway dont even see how you can compare the 2. Copeland should have been getting minutes way before Chandler went down. I know he messed up defensively sometimes but most of the Knicks messes up except Shump generally.

And yes you usually build a team and a star develops. Or you build a team and a add a star.[/B][/QUOTE]

Melo's averaging 27/9/3 on 45% shooting,which isn't great but it's pretty solid for a wing who takes a lot of shots. Also he's been playing the best defense of his career.
He's never missed the playoffs in his career despite playing in the West which was like a million times tougher than the East is this year.
Melo isn't the reason why we're out of the playoffs. Sure,he isn't on LeBron's or Durant's level but he's good enough to get his teams into the playoffs constantly.

The reason I didn't mention Melo is that I was comparing talents. Melo is the same Melo from last season + even better defense and rebounding.
I only mentioned players who either left or are acquired this season. That's why I didn't mention some others like Amare,Tyson,Felton...because they were here last season and they're here now.
I was just comparing talents and talent-wise this team is definitely not worse than the last year's team. They're about the same.

What do ya know? Knicks won a game.

Melo got his efficient scoring on, and got some help from the backup guards.

Hope Shump is ok.

[QUOTE=knickscity]What do ya know? Knicks won a game.

Melo got his efficient scoring on, and got some help from the backup guards.

Hope Shump is ok.[/QUOTE]
Yeah,we won,but like I said earlier,this won't be enough to get us into the playoffs. We're 3.5 games out of the playoffs and the 8th seed Bobcats are currently playing much better than us and increasing the difference.

In order for us to get into the playoffs we need to go on a extended winning streak. So I'm looking at our schedule and I see only one opportunity for us to do so.

From March 7th to March 26th we play:
vs Utah
@ Cleveland
vs Philly
@ Boston
vs Milwaukee
vs Indiana
@ Philly
vs Cleveland
@ LA Lakers
@ Sacramento

If we don't go at least 7-3 or 8-2 on that stretch there's absolutely no way we get into the playoffs.

Personally I don't think we're going to make it but let's wait and see if the Knicks can shock us all and actually play well for an extended period of time.

How would hiring a guy like hollins even in the middle of the season not be better than wasting the season by letting Woodson keep going?


Actually how is bringing in Rasheed Wallace as head coach not better than Woodson?

[QUOTE=el gringos]How would hiring a guy like hollins even in the middle of the season not be better than wasting the season by letting Woodson keep going?


Actually how is bringing in Rasheed Wallace as head coach not better than Woodson?[/QUOTE]

The ship is going down, makes no sense trading captains at this point.

[QUOTE=knickscity]The ship is going down, makes no sense trading captains at this point.[/QUOTE]
I think they are so cocky that they think they'll still make the playoffs and that's enough for the fans. And it prob will/is

this team is going nowhere

Knicks are now 21-40 and have lost 7 straight and 13 out of the last 15 games.

For you guys saying that we can't find a better coach than Woodson I'll ask you something: Can we find a worse coach ?
Because it's really hard to play any worse than the Knicks have played this season.

It took all the way until maybe even last nights loss to the pistons to realize that this team was not going to the playoffs. I kept seeing a 16-4 stretch right now but damn how can you count any game as a win?


Facts are that sure this roster isn't complete but it is a playoff team and letting Woodson keep going was quitting on the season.


You just can't get away w a dumb coach coaching a dumb team.


Rasheed Wallace would be a better coach for this team than Woodson

[B]Geez your going to fire a coach with a bad team to bring in who?

No legit coach is going to take over a team in the middle of a season.

No legit coach is going to want to deal with the high turnover at the GM position.

No legit coach is going to want to deal with the high turnover with personnel.

No legit coach is going to want to deal with possibly losing their job after 1 or 2 seasons.

No legit coach is going to want to deal with Dolan's Basketball infrastructure.

No legit coach is going to want to come deal with this talent less roster.[/B]

[QUOTE=Clutch]Knicks are now 21-40 and have lost 7 straight and 13 out of the last 15 games.

For you guys saying that we can't find a better coach than Woodson I'll ask you something: Can we find a worse coach ?
Because it's really hard to play any worse than the Knicks have played this season.[/QUOTE]
look no further than the players themselves.

Say what you will but Woodson has won alot of regular season games coaching his way, and has gotten those teams to where they were at best predicted in the playoffs.

Only thing different is the players arent performing on offense and defense.

JR is terrible on both ends as is felton and Shump.

Tyson has regressed as has pablo.

And the brains and true leaders of the team are no longer here.

woody may not be as good as you want him to be...but this team is not of NBA caliber.

So just because you're not sure you'll get someone better you'd let Woodson get away with all of this ?

That's like your car got broken and you say "Oh,I don't want to buy a new one,maybe it'll break as well".

THERE'S NO EXCUSE NOT TO FIRE WOODSON.

[QUOTE=Clutch]So just because you're not sure you'll get someone better you'd let Woodson get away with all of this ?

That's like your car got broken and you say "Oh,I don't want to buy a new one,maybe it'll break as well".

THERE'S NO EXCUSE NOT TO FIRE WOODSON.[/QUOTE]
I like your example and it relates perfectly.

The car is a piece of junk but a car cant drive itself.... but your blaming the driver for not being able to drive it safely and properly, when that drivers has been a decent one in every other car he's owned.

It's not the driver....it's the car.

Swap the car and if that driver cant drive that one, he needs to stop driving the car.

Woody is in the same boat as Doc Rivers was before the big three...team sucked fans wanted him gone.

Then better talent arrived and the rest was a title.

Upgrade the talent needs to happen regardless of the coach.

[QUOTE=Clutch]So just because you're not sure you'll get someone better you'd let Woodson get away with all of this ?

That's like your car got broken and you say "Oh,I don't want to buy a new one,maybe it'll break as well".

THERE'S NO EXCUSE NOT TO FIRE WOODSON.[/QUOTE]
[B]You can scream to the highest hills but it doesnt make sense. I explained on many levels why it wasnt going to happen and why it doesnt happen in the NBA. Only teams that do it are teams that tank or have decent or potential coach on the teams bench.[/B]

[QUOTE=knickscity]I like your example and it relates perfectly.

The car is a piece of junk but a car cant drive itself.... but your blaming the driver for not being able to drive it safely and properly, when that drivers has been a decent one in every other car he's owned.

It's not the driver....it's the car.

Swap the car and if that driver cant drive that one, he needs to stop driving the car.

Woody is in the same boat as Doc Rivers was before the big three...team sucked fans wanted him gone.

Then better talent arrived and the rest was a title.

Upgrade the talent needs to happen regardless of the coach.[/QUOTE]
[B]He isnt a good coach but talent does make coaches look better.[/B]

I agree it's all about talent. You can be a great coach but you can't do much with a team that's not talented.

That's not the case here. Knicks aren't enough talented to win the championship,heck they aren't even enough talented to get to the ECF.
But they have enough talent to make the playoffs easily in the shitty East and Woodson has us waaaaay out of the playoffs.

Look at the Bulls. They are always depleted by injuries but they find a way to finish with a good record and be competitive in the playoffs.
Then look at the Bobcats and Hawks for example. No way they have more talent the Knicks but they're still way ahead of us.

Woodson doesn't have the talent to make this team special,I agree with that. But he definitely has a team that should make the playoffs.

Exactly- he has a team that should make the playoffs. Yeah it's not a championship contender talent wise. But I have to think wood sons lack of ability at minimum has cost this team 6-8 games.

If they'd have switched to any coach willing to attempt to coach this team is looking at a last 20 game schedule that would allow the team to fit into a 4-6 seed and be a favorite to win in round 1

[B]the knicks does have any coach. He is the middle of the pack coach because he doesnt have a system.

I think most coaches would struggle with this roster of characters. But a coach and GM would develop their players.

Good coaches dont grow on trees.[/B]

[QUOTE=el gringos]Exactly- he has a team that should make the playoffs. Yeah it's not a championship contender talent wise. But I have to think wood sons lack of ability at minimum has cost this team 6-8 games.

If they'd have switched to any coach willing to attempt to coach this team is looking at a last 20 game schedule that would allow the team to fit into a 4-6 seed and be a favorite to win in round 1[/QUOTE]

How does a team that doesnt defend and has a backcourt that cant score be a playoff team?

Sorry man, this team is doo-doo, if anything should have happened it should have been blown up right around that 20 game mark.

[QUOTE=Clutch]I agree it's all about talent. You can be a great coach but you can't do much with a team that's not talented.

That's not the case here. Knicks aren't enough talented to win the championship,heck they aren't even enough talented to get to the ECF.
But they have enough talent to make the playoffs easily in the shitty East and Woodson has us waaaaay out of the playoffs.

Look at the Bulls. They are always depleted by injuries but they find a way to finish with a good record and be competitive in the playoffs.
Then look at the Bobcats and Hawks for example. No way they have more talent the Knicks but they're still way ahead of us.

Woodson doesn't have the talent to make this team special,I agree with that. But he definitely has a team that should make the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

Outside of Melo who on this team is as good as Noah? Nobody....and nobody on the Knicks play any form of defense....the Bulls are built on defense and hard work...two things this team has no one on it who cares about that.

It's almost mindboggling that the teams you mentioned all play defense.

The Hawks were good when they had Horford which is a better player than anyone on this team minus Melo.

Even when mentioning the Bobcats the certainly do have talent....I'd gladly take MKG,, Byiombo, and Al jefferson over almost everyone on the Knicks.

I said this before and it still stands true today....

The Knicks do not field the most talented team on any night and sometimes it's debatable if they field the best player because they make everyone look like all-stars.

[B]Their is minimal talent on this team and not the highest IQ of players. This is when the coaching staff needs to put their stamp on the team.

It's not just a Woodson problem.

The biggest error is the team always tries to retool instead of rebuild. Under Walsh was the first time it seemed like the team was rebuilding but it was just to get under the cap to make a run at free agency. [/B]

[URL="http://nypost.com/2014/03/16/metta-was-eager-to-lead-but-only-led-to-buyout/"]Metta was eager to lead, but only led to buyout[/URL]

[QUOTE]Metta World Peace said he was OK coach Mike Woodson denied him a spot in the rotation, but he wasn

[QUOTE=Rameek][URL="http://nypost.com/2014/03/16/metta-was-eager-to-lead-but-only-led-to-buyout/"]Metta was eager to lead, but only led to buyout[/URL][/QUOTE]
I really have nothing to say, this article is hilarious.