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[QUOTE=OJ SIMPSON 2.0]Does the word offend you or something? Neocon just face it, Obama is a great president compared to that raging alcoholic.[/QUOTE]
It is very easy to argue that he is worse then Bush. That's coming from someone who thought Bush was pretty bad. If you call Bush a raging alchoholic then Obama is a raging coke head stoner.
[QUOTE=KevinNYC]Read upthread.
The original argument was a completely apples to oranges comparisons of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts to the stimulus. They are not comparable and it's dishonest to pretend they are since they took place under completely different economic conditions. The only way they could be comparable is if you pretended that ALL job growth/loss is due to tax/stimulus policy.
Also tax cuts affecting the bottom 98% is not 98% of the tax cuts, note the 30% going to the top 1 percent there, but this is a completely separate issue from my point.
[IMG]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/01/image-3.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
My point was its funny how you completely blame bush for initaiting the tax cuts, while completely defending obama for ensuring the continuation of the tax cuts.
[QUOTE=tontoz]the banking deregulation and the war on Iraq are what led to the collapse of the economy. And Congress believed that Iraq had WMD's which was nothing but a Bush Administration lie.
Still waiting to hear you explain why Federal employment has gone down even though you claim that "Obama's policy is to create as many government jobs/dependents as possible, necessary or unnecessary." I won't hold my breath.[/QUOTE]
The War on Iraq had nothing to do with collapsing the economy. It raised the deficit, but that didn't cause the economy to collapse. As for banking deregulation, the specific repeal of Glass Steagal did not cause the crisis, but had regulators enforced existed regulations at every step of the mortgage chain, we would have been much, much better. The culture of deregulation definitely played a part. Trusting banks to manage their risk was a giant error in retrospect. Some of that falls on Bush. However, I don't see how any president would have known about the problems in the shadow banking system until a crisis hit. I don't think any president would have known about how interconnected the Too Big To Fail banks had become.
Remember the housing bubble popped in 2006, the economy sufffered but it was not catastrophic, it was when the credit bubble popped in 2008 when we fell off a cliff.
[QUOTE=MavsSuperFan]My point was its funny how you completely blame bush for initaiting the tax cuts, while completely defending obama for ensuring the continuation of the tax cuts.[/QUOTE]
At no point in this thread, did I point out the merits of either.
[QUOTE=tontoz]the banking deregulation and the war on Iraq are what led to the collapse of the economy. And Congress believed that Iraq had WMD's which was nothing but a Bush Administration lie.
Still waiting to hear you explain why Federal employment has gone down even though you claim that "Obama's policy is to create as many government jobs/dependents as possible, necessary or unnecessary." I won't hold my breath.[/QUOTE]
Nothing you said here even made a remote amount of sense, objectively. That was nothing but the incoherent rage of a liberal nerd who still blames George Bush for his own personal inadequacies in life.
It is clear that Bush is simply an outlet for your own personal frustrations with your inability to compete in a tough world. What's the matter? Not smart enough? Not makin enough money? Can't put on muscle? Girls don't want you? Some sunovabitch don't wanna buy land? Waahhhhh, it's all Bush's fault! Republicans are jerks!!!!
You're angry because you are wanting. And you can't stand to look in the mirror and blame yourself. Liberals are your flock, they are the one group that you still feel semi-included by. So you keep hating George Bush, long after he's even been relevant.
Get mad you little f[COLOR="Black"]a[/COLOR]ggot. Get mad.
[QUOTE=OldSkoolball#52]Nothing you said here even made a remote amount of sense, objectively. That was nothing but the incoherent rage of a liberal nerd who still blames George Bush for his own personal inadequacies in life.
It is clear that Bush is simply an outlet for your own personal frustrations with your inability to compete in a tough world. What's the matter? Not smart enough? Not makin enough money? Can't put on muscle? Girls don't want you? Some sunovabitch don't wanna buy land? Waahhhhh, it's all Bush's fault! Republicans are jerks!!!!
You're angry because you are wanting. And you can't stand to look in the mirror and blame yourself. Liberals are your flock, they are the one group that you still feel semi-included by. So you keep hating George Bush, long after he's even been relevant.
Get mad you little f[COLOR="Black"]a[/COLOR]ggot. Get mad.[/QUOTE]
Like i said, still waiting on your response about Federal jobs going down under Obama. You will probably respond at about the same time they find the WMDs in Iraq. You remember those don't you, the reason Bush said we needed to go to war in the first place?
Not surprised to see you resort to ad hominem, the fallback for people who can't make a coherent argument.
[QUOTE=Electric Slide]If Obama wasn't black, he wouldn't be president. Seriously, so many people just voted for Obama because he was black.
Everybody (mostly blacks) talks about happy they are that they finally have a black president but they never talk about how he is going to be a good president and will fix things.[/QUOTE]
So he was initially elected... and then [I]reelected[/I] (that's elected twice, I know some people here need to be bludgeoned with simple concepts before grasping them)... solely because he was Black? Not because the majority of people, regardless of race, felt he was a better alternative to McCain/crazy Alaska milf and Mr. 1% of the 1%? Story checks out I guess.
Now if only the country could return to the glory days of the Jackson era. Keep hope alive!
[IMG]http://www.4president.org/jessejackson1984.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.ebayimg.com/t/JESSE-JACKSON-1988-pin-button-pinback-President-/24/!B4FHV-wBGk~$(KGrHqUOKj8Ey,iz4WEyBMoiFSnc4Q~~_35.JPG[/IMG]
F@cking idiots :facepalm
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]So he was initially elected... and then [I]reelected[/I] (that's elected twice, I know some people here need to be bludgeoned with simple concepts before grasping them)... solely because he was Black? Not because the majority of people, regardless of race, felt he was a better alternative to McCain/crazy Alaska milf and Mr. 1% of the 1%? Story checks out I guess.
Now if only the country could return to the glory days of the Jackson era. Keep hope alive!
[IMG]http://www.4president.org/jessejackson1984.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.ebayimg.com/t/JESSE-JACKSON-1988-pin-button-pinback-President-/24/!B4FHV-wBGk~$(KGrHqUOKj8Ey,iz4WEyBMoiFSnc4Q~~_35.JPG[/IMG]
F@cking idiots :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Is that a rainbow? COME ON, MAN. :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=longhornfan1234]Is that a rainbow? COME ON, MAN. :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
Rainbow coalition brah. All races united under the 2 term presidency of another candidate who was elected TWICE solely because he was Black. Study your History. Alan Keyes and Herman Cain just missed the cut doe, inexplicable :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=KingBeasley08]They are practically the same thing. Republicans are fvcking retarded so I supported the Democrats and they ended up being the same thing[/QUOTE]
This
[QUOTE=tontoz][B]the banking deregulation [/B]and the war on Iraq are what led to the collapse of the economy. And Congress believed that Iraq had WMD's which was nothing but a Bush Administration lie.
Still waiting to hear you explain why Federal employment has gone down even though you claim that "Obama's policy is to create as many government jobs/dependents as possible, necessary or unnecessary." I won't hold my breath.[/QUOTE]
product of a democrat president; Clinton.
[QUOTE=Jello]product of a democrat president; Clinton.[/QUOTE]
Clinton wasn't in office when the Glass-Steagall Act was gutted. Certainly he deserves blame for Fannie/Freddie.
[QUOTE=tontoz]Clinton wasn't in office when the Glass-Steagall Act was gutted. Certainly he deserves blame for Fannie/Freddie.[/QUOTE]
Yes. He Was.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act[/url]
The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act was signed by Bill Clinton in 1999 and his Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin supported it. He also supported not regulating the derivatives market. The same financial instruments that exploded a decade later.
[QUOTE=tontoz]Like i said, still waiting on your response about Federal jobs going down under Obama..[/QUOTE]
Holy shit. You are going Full Retard.
Federal jobs have gone UP under Obama. Someone else in this very thread proved it with a link, and I even quoted and HIGHLIGHTED the statistic from the link.
It would be one thing if theyd just gone down a little. Local and state jobs have shrunk drastically because they cant print their own money and stall the problem. They have to cut jobs or go bankrupt. But Obama has actually been adding jobs to the government tab during a recession. Imagine a company adding a bunch of jobs when theyre bleeding money. Meanwhile Obama prints money to make the fake jobs to keep the Democrats happy. You are a seriously dumb ****. You are too busy with yor anti bush, partisan agenda to stop and think about whats good for the AMERICAN economy. You dummy.
[QUOTE=OldSkoolball#52]Holy shit. You are going Full Retard.
Federal jobs have gone UP under Obama. Someone else in this very thread proved it with a link, and I even quoted and HIGHLIGHTED the statistic from the link.
It would be one thing if theyd just gone down a little. Local and state jobs have shrunk drastically because they cant print their own money and stall the problem. They have to cut jobs or go bankrupt. But Obama has actually been adding jobs to the government tab during a recession. Imagine a company adding a bunch of jobs when theyre bleeding money. Meanwhile Obama prints money to make the fake jobs to keep the Democrats happy. You are a seriously dumb ****. You are too busy with yor anti bush, partisan agenda to stop and think about whats good for the AMERICAN economy. You dummy.[/QUOTE]
Yeah you missed a post.
[QUOTE]Also the fact is that federal goverment payrolls are down overall since Obama took office which demolishes your point about Obama's plan. In
Jan 2009 there were 2,772,000 federal employees. The latest month we have the data for is May 2013 when there were 2,757,000. You can check these numbers on the BLS website. Go here and just select "Federal" to get the numbers
[url]http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cesbtab1.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
I also called you out for lying about me in that post.
He didn't miss your post he is just ignoring it just like he ignores the fact that the Iraq War was started due to the Bush lie about WMDs in Iraq.
Their own inspectors said there was no evidence of WMDs but they continued to lie so Dubya could get Sadam and finish what daddy started.
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]So he was initially elected... and then [I]reelected[/I] (that's elected twice, I know some people here need to be bludgeoned with simple concepts before grasping them)... solely because he was Black? Not because the majority of people, regardless of race, felt he was a better alternative to McCain/crazy Alaska milf and Mr. 1% of the 1%? Story checks out I guess.
Now if only the country could return to the glory days of the Jackson era. Keep hope alive!
F@cking idiots :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Oh no. He should have won and become president because he was the lesser of two evils but he won as easily as he did because he was black and nothing more.
Being black is more hip in today's society than it was in the past. That is why we are seeing an uprise of white guys listening to rap music and trying to be black.
It's mainly because blacks are ultra sensitive though. If you say anything demeaning to them they'll accuse you of being racist and they'll win every time. You pretty much have to put them on a pedestal, otherwise you are a racist.
[QUOTE=Electric Slide]Oh no. He should have won and become president because he was the lesser of two evils but he won as easily as he did because he was black and nothing more.
Being black is more hip in today's society than it was in the past. That is why we are seeing an uprise of white guys listening to rap music and trying to be black.
It's mainly because blacks are ultra sensitive though. If you say anything demeaning to them they'll accuse you of being racist and they'll win every time. You pretty much have to put them on a pedestal, otherwise you are a racist.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
blacks are 13% of the population.. you gotta give a better answer than that..
that is a 5th grader's response to the issue :oldlol: are you in 5th grade?
[QUOTE=Electric Slide]Oh no. He should have won and become president because he was the lesser of two evils but he won as easily as he did because he was black and nothing more.
Being black is more hip in today's society than it was in the past. That is why we are seeing an uprise of white guys listening to rap music and trying to be black.
It's mainly because blacks are ultra sensitive though. If you say anything demeaning to them they'll accuse you of being racist and they'll win every time. You pretty much have to put them on a pedestal, otherwise you are a racist.[/QUOTE]
So what you're saying, in a nutshell-
No one paid even the slightest attention to the billion dollar campaigns Obama and his people orchestrated. You know, the whole 'Hope' and 'Change' centered rhetoric. Disregarded all of his speeches, debate content, TV ads, editorials, etc.
They took one look at him and thought 'hey, I'm a White guy who listens to rap and wants to be Black now that it's cool, wouldn't want to offend any ultra sensitive Black people by voting for McCain/Romney in this confidential ballot process'.
Seriously? This is what you think happened... 65-70 million times... twice.
Seriously?
:biggums:
[IMG]http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/972/128757017089385611.jpg[/IMG]
Do you have cancer on the tip of your dick? What's with the odd black pigmentation? It's in the shape of a giant foam finger...you should get your shit checked out...
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]So what you're saying, in a nutshell-
No one paid even the slightest attention to the billion dollar campaigns Obama and his people orchestrated. You know, the whole 'Hope' and 'Change' centered rhetoric. Disregarded all of his speeches, debate content, TV ads, editorials, etc.
[/QUOTE]
I understand your point that he was on the Democratic ticket and thus would automatically get lots of votes, plus his campaign slogans and personal rhetoric and for a host of other reasons.
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]
They took one look at him and thought 'hey, I'm a White guy who listens to rap and wants to be Black now that it's cool, wouldn't want to offend any ultra sensitive Black people by voting for McCain/Romney in this confidential ballot process'.
[/QUOTE]
But you are grossly underestimating how much this happened too. Especially among women and on college campuses. Soooo many white people wanted to be SEEN supporting Obama. They wanna feel like they are the black community's big bro, like somebody out there depends on them. They have a very mothering, nurturing instinct. Thats why women vote Dem and so do pansy men. Thatts the truth. Conservatives are typically the personalities who go out and get things done, libs are the emos who sit at home nurturing the little ones and worrying and feeling hormonal and insecure. True facts.
Of course college libs dont go out and volunteer in the black community, they dont pay attention to important legislation, or try to promote values that the black community could use. They instead just cry 'racism' (probably more often and more inaccurately than most black folks) because they want to LOOK like theyre the tolerance police. They wanna be seen doin it. Its their quest for personal identity.
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]So what you're saying, in a nutshell-
No one paid even the slightest attention to the billion dollar campaigns Obama and his people orchestrated. You know, the whole 'Hope' and 'Change' centered rhetoric. Disregarded all of his speeches, debate content, TV ads, editorials, etc.
They took one look at him and thought 'hey, I'm a White guy who listens to rap and wants to be Black now that it's cool, wouldn't want to offend any ultra sensitive Black people by voting for McCain/Romney in this confidential ballot process'.
Seriously? This is what you think happened... 65-70 million times... twice.
Seriously?
:biggums:[/QUOTE]
Yes.
Hope and Change had to do with the fact that everybody "hoped" and wanted to "change" the fact that we will finally have a black president.
Then factor in people that actually like his political views and that is why he has won as easily as he did.
People that like his political views + 99.9% of the black population's votes = landslide victory
Do you actually believe anything that you typed? :lol
Obama wasn't even the first Black candidate to run for the presidency, all of the others from the 70s on (ie, Jackson, Sharpton, Keyes, Chisolm, Cain) Never made it past the primary stage. I guess 2008 was when w[I]i[/I]ggerism and liberal pansy pandering reached their zenith?
Cocaine's a helluva drug.
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Obama wasn't even the first Black candidate to run for the presidency, all of the others from the 70s on (ie, Jackson, Sharpton, Keyes, Chisolm, Cain) Never made it past the primary stage. I guess 2008 was when w[I]i[/I]ggerism and liberal pansy pandering reached their zenith?.[/QUOTE]
Yes.
It's hip to be black in today's society primarily because of how ultra sensitive blacks are, so if you don't completely follow black people you are a racist.
But like I said, his political views got him there too. I'm just saying he won as easily as he did because he was black. A lot of people voted for him because he was black and nothing more, mostly blacks themselves.
[QUOTE=Electric Slide]Yes.
It's hip to be black in today's society primarily because of how ultra sensitive blacks are, so if you don't completely follow black people you are a racist.
But like I said, his political views got him there too. I'm just saying he won as easily as he did because he was black. A lot of people voted for him because he was black and nothing more, mostly blacks themselves.[/QUOTE]
Also young white college kids wanted to say to their grandkids, "I'm in the history books, I voted for the first black President." Like a social status type thing. Maybe that example is just a small percentage, but I believe it to have some relevance, some form of truth to it.
George W. Bush was possibly the worst president in the history of the United States. Obama is going to have to fukc up a lot more over the next few years to even be mentioned in the same sentence as George W.
[QUOTE=Electric Slide]Yes.
It's hip to be black in today's society primarily because of how ultra sensitive blacks are, so if you don't completely follow black people you are a racist.
But like I said, his political views got him there too. I'm just saying he won as easily as he did because he was black. A lot of people voted for him because he was black and nothing more, mostly blacks themselves.[/QUOTE]
Christ I forgot how racist America still is. I'm glad I moved out.
You people are overrating race so much in this equation.
Stop trying to find a race war IN EVERYTHING.
You are underrating Obama. He is a great speech maker he is a brilliant campaigner.
Obama is one of the greatest orators in modern times. The whole marketing campaign around him was about how he was going to bring
hope and change-this combined with his awesome speeches did a lot.
Bush and Kerry for example sucked at giving speeches, so this new young guy comes in and gives amazing speeches, kind of makes you assume he's going to be amazing at everything else.
He promised so many amazing things. He acted really honest. On top of that he's a really intelligent and charismatic guy and came across as witty and cool in all of his interviews and debates. He seemed like he knew what he was doing, especially compared to Bush.
Obama is a great campaigner I dont think any of us can deny that. He won because of his speeches and the marketing campaign surrounding him. He even convinced Scandanavia to award him the Nobel Prize for Peace before he even did anything, based on his speeches alone.
He really did create good PR for America, even now that he's proved himself to be a shit president and war monger people still are always telling me they like America now because Obama.
Stop seeing a race-war in everything morons. It sounds really backwards. If Obama was Japanese American or Mexican-American or Navajo-American he would have done equally well.
[QUOTE=Nick Young]Christ I forgot how racist America still is. I'm glad I moved out.
You people are overrating race so much in this equation.
Stop trying to find a race war IN EVERYTHING.
You are underrating Obama. He is a great speech maker he is a brilliant campaigner.[/quote]
Oh yeah, I forgot, race is irrelevant when blacks are favored but when blacks don't get their way it's racism.
[QUOTE=Electric Slide]Oh yeah, I forgot, race is irrelevant when blacks are favored but when blacks don't get their way it's racism.[/QUOTE]
If Obama was white he would have won as well. Hell, he is basically half white anyways, isn't he. Race has nothing to do with if you're a good president or not. I refuse to believe that it has anything to do with winning presidential elections in America in this day and age.
Obama is a Yale graduate and one of the greatest orators orators of the 20th century.
Oratory is what won him the elections. It is a lost art in modern politics and Obama brought it back.
Get out of the past people. Stop with this 1970s race war bullshit. Move on.
[QUOTE=Nick Young]If Obama was white he would have won as well. Hell, he is basically half white anyways, isn't he. Race has nothing to do with if you're a good president or not. I refuse to believe that it has anything to do with winning presidential elections in America in this day and age.
Obama is a Yale graduate and one of the greatest orators orators of the 20th century.
Oratory is what won him the elections. It is a lost art in modern politics and Obama brought it back.
Get out of the past people. Stop with this 1970s race war bullshit. Move on.[/QUOTE]
Most whites and people that understand politics voted for him for that reason. The w[COLOR="Black"]i[/COLOR]ggers and black people just voted for him because he is black though.
It's the truth.
[QUOTE=OldSkoolball#52]I understand your point that he was on the Democratic ticket and thus would automatically get lots of votes, plus his campaign slogans and personal rhetoric and for a host of other reasons.
But you are grossly underestimating how much this happened too. Especially among women and on college campuses. Soooo many white people wanted to be SEEN supporting Obama. They wanna feel like they are the black community's big bro, like somebody out there depends on them. They have a very mothering, nurturing instinct. Thats why women vote Dem and so do pansy men. Thatts the truth. Conservatives are typically the personalities who go out and get things done, libs are the emos who sit at home nurturing the little ones and worrying and feeling hormonal and insecure. True facts.
Of course college libs dont go out and volunteer in the black community, they dont pay attention to important legislation, or try to promote values that the black community could use. They instead just cry 'racism' (probably more often and more inaccurately than most black folks) because they want to LOOK like theyre the tolerance police. They wanna be seen doin it. Its their quest for personal identity.[/QUOTE]
This is so much bullshit.
Repubs get things done while whiny lib emos are all jobless losers huh?
Then why are the redstates the biggest users of the welfare system?
[IMG]http://media2.policymic.com/fdc1b63cc7e9bae9f22ab2fd6c928b69.png[/IMG]
Why do the lib states pay more in federal taxes than they get back in federal services (and vice versa for red states)?
[IMG]http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/give-take-small-final.png[/IMG]
There is some kernel of fact (as is the case in most hyperbole), and some people probably voted for him to seem "cool", but you are completely ignoring the disenfranchisement of fiscal conservatives by the neo-con and teaparty takeover of the repub party. I know many former repubs who were completely turned off by the evangelical, anti-science, moral agenda of the recent national republican campaigns.
[QUOTE=Nick Young]Christ I forgot how racist America still is. I'm glad I moved out.
You people are overrating race so much in this equation.
Stop trying to find a race war IN EVERYTHING.
You are underrating Obama. He is a great speech maker he is a brilliant campaigner.
[B]Obama is one of the greatest orators in modern times[/B]. The whole marketing campaign around him was about how he was going to bring
hope and change-this combined with his awesome speeches did a lot.
Bush and Kerry for example sucked at giving speeches, so this new young guy comes in and gives amazing speeches, kind of makes you assume he's going to be amazing at everything else.
He promised so many amazing things. He acted really honest. On top of that he's a really intelligent and charismatic guy and came across as witty and cool in all of his interviews and debates. He seemed like he knew what he was doing, especially compared to Bush.
Obama is a great campaigner I dont think any of us can deny that. He won because of his speeches and the marketing campaign surrounding him. He even convinced Scandanavia to award him the Nobel Prize for Peace before he even did anything, based on his speeches alone.
He really did create good PR for America, even now that he's proved himself to be a shit president and war monger people still are always telling me they like America now because Obama.
Stop seeing a race-war in everything morons. It sounds really backwards. If Obama was Japanese American or Mexican-American or Navajo-American he would have done equally well.[/QUOTE]
Not true.
[url]http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-01-20/opinions/35439712_1_barack-obama-tarp-bailout-buffett-rule[/url]
[url]http://bigstory.ap.org/article/essay-deconstructing-barack-obama-orator[/url]
[url]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-01-24-obamaorations_N.htm[/url]
Its like comparing a crap and a turd
or the stench of a skunk or rotten eggs
Either way,Obama and Bush are two of the Worst Presidents in History.
Both have been extremely horrible and both were elected twiceand Both have did worse their 2nd term,just getting worse and worse.
Obama got elected bc he was a Democrat,promised change,jobs,
was younger,people were sick of Republicans after Bush's mistakes,and he appealed to the people
a younger,biracial president who knows the current generation
and can appeal to their needs,yet
Hes just the other side of the pile of crap between a coin of Bush and Obama.
[QUOTE=travelingman]Not true.
[url]http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-01-20/opinions/35439712_1_barack-obama-tarp-bailout-buffett-rule[/url]
[url]http://bigstory.ap.org/article/essay-deconstructing-barack-obama-orator[/url]
[url]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-01-24-obamaorations_N.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
Articles saying that Obama isn't a good orator aren't going to convince me that he isn't.
I get pumped up listening to his speeches still, and I hate the guy.
[QUOTE=Nick Young]Articles saying that Obama isn't a good orator aren't going to convince me that he isn't.
I get pumped up listening to his speeches still, and I hate the guy.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't contending that he isn't a good orator, I was countering your point that he is one of the greatest in modern times.