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[QUOTE=9erempiree]I'm going with Kobe.
The only argument people bring up to say Lebron is better than Kobe is that regular season record. Which is a team record.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Please don't use the 5 rings argument again then when comparing Kobe to other players. Because after all, it is just a team record.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Lebron was better because he played better in the playoffs.
35/9/7 62% TS vs 32/5/5 53% TS
Can't wait to hear how Kobe's is better.[/QUOTE]
Meh. I take those numbers from LeBron with a grain of salt. Does anybody really care that LeBron was able to put up 38/8/7, 29/13/6, 25/11/9, and 36/13/8 against a team that was under .500?
Even his numbers against the Hawks... I mean, I guess those numbers are pretty impressive because the Hawks were able to beat peak Wade (:oldlol: ) that year, but in reality.... it's the Hawks. The Cavs won the first two games by a combined 47 points. And we all know that playing @ the Hawks is like playing in a neutral arena... so again, is it really that impressive?
And his series against Orlando is unbelievably overrated. He had the amazing first game (a game that they lost) where he put up 49 points on 20-30 shooting which really skews the overall numbers. He was superb again in Game 2 when he hit the buzzer beater to win the game.
But after that? He just chucked a lot of shots on poor efficiency, got to the line an ABSURD amount of times (in fact, he shot 9+ FTs in all 14 games he played in during the '09 playofffs :wtf: ), and was atrocious late in games. Countless costly turnovers, disappeared in your beloved elimination game, and just didn't have the impact that his numbers would suggest.
[QUOTE=juju151111]You won't get into a debate cause you would obviously lose. Everything points to LJ being better. Stats,record, and playoffs performance.[/QUOTE]
Period point blank. Peeps still insist on fogetting that Kobe was a sidekick during this era. For what reason, who cares? New name for the quoted, after his defending of ripthekik's attempt to f@ck up the Boards; he's now known as Brainlesskowski!!!
[IMG]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/cheers.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=branslowski]66wins in the East? Lol....But hey, we can agree to disagree. Cant go wrong with either. Its wat you prefer mostly I guess. Not getting into one of those long ass (i aint got no life) debates.
Also, I ****s wit the year 09' aswell because thats wen Kobe beat the Magic (who beat Lebron). Kobe 40-8-8 in game 1 was a fun game to watch.[/QUOTE]
40/8/8 is what lebron averaged in that Magic series
[QUOTE=aj1987]'09 Cavs vs the East: 40-12
[b]'09 Cavs vs the West: 26-4[/b]
Lebron AVERAGING 39-8-8 vs the Magic was pretty fun as well.[/QUOTE]
Kobe stans right now:oldlol:
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[QUOTE=PJR]The guy who was wining 66 games with a core of Mo Williams, Delonte West, Big Z, and Varejao[/QUOTE]
Did you check the competition in the East? Thought so. The East has been by far the weakest conference during Lebron's entire career. In 2008-09 you had basically three good teams in the East; the Cavs, Magic and Celtics. The rest was garbage. Look at the rest of East teams that qualified for the Playoffs that year: Hawks (47-35), Heat (43-39), 76ers (41-41), Bulls (41-41) and the Pistons (39-43). Meanwhile in the West, the Jazz grabbed the 8th seed with a 48-34 record. Big ****ing difference.
As for the 2003 season, the East had only one 50 win team, while the West had six teams registering 50 or more wins.
Kobe has been battling against superior competition his entire career, while Lebron has been facing average and poor teams far more often than Kobe has. This shit matters.
Now as for who I'd take between the two of them from these specific years, it's a really tough choice. Lebron had a epic year and his numbers are better overall, but I'd actually take Kobe, as his ability and ceiling was higher. Better scorer, better defender, although Lebron was a better rebounder and playmaker. Two epic seasons, it's tough to choose.
[QUOTE=havoc33]Did you check the competition in the East? Thought so. The East has been by far the weakest conference during Lebron's entire career. In 2008-09 you had basically three good teams in the East; the Cavs, Magic and Celtics. The rest was garbage. Look at the rest of East teams that qualified for the Playoffs that year: Hawks (47-35), Heat (43-39), 76ers (41-41), Bulls (41-41) and the Pistons (39-43). Meanwhile in the West, the Jazz grabbed the 8th seed with a 48-34 record. Big ****ing difference.
[/QUOTE]
Lebron has a better win % vs the West than Kobe did vs the East that year:biggums: Lebron himself had a better win % vs the West than he did vs the East:eek:
[QUOTE=Hoopz2332]Lebron has a better win % vs the West than Kobe did vs the East that year:biggums: Lebron himself had a better win % vs the West than he did vs the East:eek:[/QUOTE]
Yes, I'm actually aware that the Cavs performed well against the West that year. IMO it still matters if you play the majority of your games against quality competition, or if you're actually playing sub.500 teams the whole team. No question which team is the most fresh throughout the season.
[QUOTE=havoc33]Yes, I'm actually aware that the Cavs performed well against the West that year. IMO it still matters if you play the majority of your games against quality competition, or if you're actually playing sub.500 teams the whole team. No question which team is the most fresh throughout the season.[/QUOTE]
Eastern teams even when they have a poor overall record they play a more grindingout/beat um up style than Western teams who play a more wide open/free flowing style where their is less physicality. This is why KObe finals shooting numbers were for the most part lower than his Western Conf playoff numbers.
Lebron and his teams generally have more success against the weak, no-defense West.
If some of his best RS teams played in that conference, 72 wins would've already been broken.
[QUOTE=Hoopz2332]Eastern teams even when they have apoor overall record play a more grindingout/beat um up style than Western teams who play a more wide open/free flowing style where their is less physicality. This is why KObe finals shooting numbers were for the most part lower than his Western Conf playoff numbers.[/QUOTE]If you would say that about the NBA in the 90s, I would agree with you. But I wouldn't say there were many quality, tough nosed teams in the East in the 2000s. Kobe happened to face the only two that really existed (04 Pistons, 08/10 Celtics), in three different Finals series, no less. The Celtics of 08 are probably one of the best defensive teams I have ever seen.
[QUOTE=juju151111]Who was better?[/QUOTE]
09 LeBron is a different class of player to any version of kobe.
[QUOTE=havoc33]If you would say that about the NBA in the 90s, I would agree with you. But I wouldn't say there were many quality, tough nosed teams in the East in the 2000s. Kobe happened to face the only two that really existed (04 Pistons, 08/10 Celtics), in three different Finals series, no less. The Celtics of 08 are probably one of the best defensive teams I have ever seen.[/QUOTE]
Check Kobe's stats/record vs bad Eastern teams like the Bobcats. They always gave the Lakers the business a couple of year ago:biggums:
The one who carried a team of scrubs to 66 wins. Kobe fans are hilarious. Still can't get over the fact LeBron is a better player than their idol ever was :oldlol:
[QUOTE=havoc33][B]Yes, I'm actually aware that the Cavs performed well against the West that year[/B]. IMO it still matters if you play the majority of your games against quality competition, or if you're actually playing sub.500 teams the whole team. No question which team is the most fresh throughout the season.[/QUOTE]
No you weren't.
Not sure if serious, 2003 was the year Kobe played terribly against the Spurs in the playoffs and LA got bounced by them.
Did you mean 2002?
[QUOTE=havoc33]Did you check the competition in the East? Thought so. The East has been by far the weakest conference during Lebron's entire career. In 2008-09 you had basically three good teams in the East; the Cavs, Magic and Celtics. The rest was garbage. Look at the rest of East teams that qualified for the Playoffs that year: Hawks (47-35), Heat (43-39), 76ers (41-41), Bulls (41-41) and the Pistons (39-43). Meanwhile in the West, the Jazz grabbed the 8th seed with a 48-34 record. Big ****ing difference.
As for the 2003 season, the East had only one 50 win team, while the West had six teams registering 50 or more wins.
Kobe has been battling against superior competition his entire career, while Lebron has been facing average and poor teams far more often than Kobe has. This shit matters.
Now as for who I'd take between the two of them from these specific years, it's a really tough choice. Lebron had a epic year and his numbers are better overall, but I'd actually take Kobe, as his ability and ceiling was higher. Better scorer, better defender, although Lebron was a better rebounder and playmaker. Two epic seasons, it's tough to choose.[/QUOTE]
Lebron still dominated the West
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]No you weren't.[/QUOTE]
Lmao
[QUOTE=Doranku]the Hawks were able to beat peak Wade (:oldlol: ) that year[/quote]
I don't know what you're laughing at. I remember peak Kobe not even making the playoffs and losing twice in the 1st round.
[QUOTE=Doranku]And his series against Orlando is unbelievably overrated. He had the amazing first game (a game that they lost) where he put up 49 points on 20-30 shooting which really skews the overall numbers. He was superb again in Game 2 when he hit the buzzer beater to win the game.
But after that? He just chucked a lot of shots on poor efficiency, got to the line an ABSURD amount of times (in fact, he shot 9+ FTs in all 14 games he played in during the '09 playofffs :wtf: ), and was atrocious late in games. Countless costly turnovers, disappeared in your beloved elimination game, and just didn't have the impact that his numbers would suggest.[/QUOTE]
Lebron had a TS of 55% after the first 2 games.
Game 3 - 41/7/9. Lebron scored almost half of the Cavs' points.
Game 4 - 44/12/7. Hit a clutch 3 with ~3 seconds left in the game. Still lost by 2.
Game 5 - 37/14/12. Cavs won.
Game 6 - 25/7/7. A poor game by Lebron standards.
The Cavs lost because the Magic were hitting their 3's. It also didn't help that the second best player on the Cavs shot less than 40%.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]No you weren't.[/QUOTE]
Truth.
Lebron by miles. To compare Lebron to such a inferior player like Kobe is a disgrace. Pre-prime 09 Lebron lead a cast of trash to 66 wins and the ECF and had already led trash to the finals 2 years before, while PRIME Kobe could not even win a single playoff series in the 3 seasons he had without a HOF big man, going first round KO as a 7th seed twice and missing the playoffs the other time....and you want to compare pre-prime Kobe to pre-prime Lebron despite pre-prime Lebron being way better than even PRIME Kobe???
[QUOTE=secund2nun]Lebron by miles. To compare Lebron to such a inferior player like Kobe is a disgrace. Pre-prime 09 Lebron lead a cast of trash to 66 wins and the ECF and had already led trash to the finals 2 years ago, while PRIME Kobe could not even win a single playoff series in the 3 seasons he had without a HOF big man, going first round KO as a 7th seed twice and missing the playoffs the other time....and you want to compare pre-prime Kobe to pre-prime Lebron despite pre-prime Lebron being way better than even PRIME Kobe???[/QUOTE]
Would Kobe have made a single playoffs on the Cavs?
[QUOTE=secund2nun]Lebron by miles. To compare Lebron to such a inferior player like Kobe is a disgrace. Pre-prime 09 Lebron lead a cast of trash to 66 wins and the ECF and had already led trash to the finals 2 years ago, while PRIME Kobe could not even win a single playoff series in the 3 seasons he had without a HOF big man, going first round KO as a 7th seed twice and missing the playoffs the other time....and you want to compare pre-prime Kobe to pre-prime Lebron despite pre-prime Lebron being way better than even PRIME Kobe???[/QUOTE]
09 could be considered his peak. Idk what you mean pre prime.
[QUOTE=NumberSix]Would Kobe have made a single playoffs on the Cavs?[/QUOTE]
Would LeBron have won a single playoff series if he played in the West?
After all, he was 1-5 against 50+ win teams in the playoffs as a Cavalier, and unfortunately there were no 40 win teams for Bronzy to beat up on in the playoffs out West.
Maybe he would have eventually joined up with Timmy D and the Spurs to finally win a series? :oldlol:
I'd take 2013 LeBron over 03' Kobe (and probably [I]every[/I] version of Kobe) because of his new-refined skillset, to go along with impact. 2009 is a tossup though.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]I'd take 2013 LeBron over 03' Kobe (and probably [I]every[/I] version of Kobe) because of his new-refined skillset, to go along with impact. 2009 is a tossup though.[/QUOTE]
09 LeBron would do the same has 2013. Way more athletic. He was jumping from the ft line in game.
[QUOTE=juju151111]09 LeBron would do the same has 2013. Way more athletic. He was jumping from the ft line in game.[/QUOTE]
2009 LeBron was a beast, no doubt. His game today is more polished though. Dude's mid-to-long range game is wayyyy more consistent, as is his defense.
Kobes defense wins it for me.
[QUOTE=G-Funk]Kobes defense wins it for me.[/QUOTE]
True. LeBron got lit up by Rafer Alston. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=NumberSix]Would Kobe have made a single playoffs on the Cavs?[/QUOTE]
I dont see why not.
Not 66 games but they would be a threat still
[QUOTE=9erempiree]Like many people that say Lebron, you still didn't give a reason why and nobody has either. We brought up why Kobe was better.
Most people will bring up his regular season wins that year [B]which is a team accomplishment.[/B]
Lebron did nothing remarkable that year.[/QUOTE]
And championships not??
Kobe es better because 5>>>2 Right?? :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=juju151111]09 could be considered his peak. Idk what you mean pre prime.[/QUOTE]
12 and 13 Lebron are much better players.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]2009 LeBron was a beast, no doubt. His game today is more polished though. Dude's mid-to-long range game is wayyyy more consistent, as is his defense.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. But really you think it's a toss up between 2009 LeBron and 2003 Kobe? Even without as much defensive consistency, added post game, refined jumper, and more polish on his game. I thought 2009 and 2010 LeBron was a better player than Kobe ever was.
[QUOTE=NumberSix]Would Kobe have made a single playoffs on the Cavs?[/QUOTE]
I'd say a low seed, probable 1st round loss...the typical prime Kobe results when he doesn't have a future HOFer on his squad.
[QUOTE=secund2nun]12 and 13 Lebron are much better players.[/QUOTE]
At what exactly? He has a post game and picks his spots to cherry pick points. That's all he better at. He was wayy more athletic and explosive in 09. He didn't need a post game then. His first step was way better.
[QUOTE=LongLiveTheKing]Lebron easily.[/QUOTE]
kobe..........
and lebron played in weak east,and it is not even close
[QUOTE=PJR]The guy who was wining 66 games with a core of Mo Williams, Delonte West, Big Z, and Varejao[/QUOTE]
weak east
lol '03 kobe would dunk all over lebron 24/7 not even funny
one plays carefully watching his stats, the other one just wants to beat the hell out of you
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Lebron was better because he played better in the playoffs.
35/9/7 62% TS vs 32/5/5 53% TS
Can't wait to hear how Kobe's is better.[/QUOTE]
weak east
I take kobe bryant for 500 hundred Bob:applause: :cheers:
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