Kevin Love is currently averaging 27 14 and 5 on 48%, can he keep it up?

[QUOTE=BarberSchool]The real question is, does the fact that Kevin Love scores more of his points off of cuts, free throws, and open 3's make him less of an asset or more of an asset ?

It certainly makes him less of a noticeable superstar, as you'll never see a highlight of him in isolation, crossing someone over then dunking on them.

But let's really think about this, and please I'd like everyone to respond:

[B][SIZE="3"]1. When has a guy had a season under his belt of 26ppg on good efficiency, and is looking like he will have another season at that rate, all of it done WITHOUT NEEDING THE BALL IN HIS HANDS MUCH ? AND WITHOUT NEEDING MANY PLAYS RUN FOR HIM?[/SIZE][/B]

[B][SIZE="3"]2. Does a team benefit MORE from having multiple 20+PPG talents who both need the ball in their hands to succeed? Or does it benefit more when ONE 20+PPG talent needs the ball in their hands to succeed, and another does not need the ball in their hands to succeed?[/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]

1. that's not a question.

2. I think it's a bit arbitrary to say good players NEED to have the ball in their hands. I know using Lebron as an example is a bit silly seeing how god-like he is, but on the Cavs (shitty team and coaching) he was better off dominating the ball. On the Heat that is not necessarily the case.

Now let's say Rubio goes down and the Wolves suddenly have no good distributors. Obviously, the fact Love doesn't have much of an iso game would become a liability to him and the team at that point. In fact I reckon his stats would falter pretty hard with no one feeding him.

[QUOTE=BarberSchool]The real question is, does the fact that Kevin Love scores more of his points off of cuts, free throws, and open 3's make him less of an asset or more of an asset ?

It certainly makes him less of a noticeable superstar, as you'll never see a highlight of him in isolation, crossing someone over then dunking on them.

But let's really think about this, and please I'd like everyone to respond:

[B][SIZE="3"]1. When has a guy had a season under his belt of 26ppg on good efficiency, and is looking like he will have another season at that rate, all of it done WITHOUT NEEDING THE BALL IN HIS HANDS MUCH ? AND WITHOUT NEEDING MANY PLAYS RUN FOR HIM?[/SIZE][/B]

[B][SIZE="3"]2. Does a team benefit MORE from having multiple 20+PPG talents who both need the ball in their hands to succeed? Or does it benefit more when ONE 20+PPG talent needs the ball in their hands to succeed, and another does not need the ball in their hands to succeed?[/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]

IMO it hurts that he isnt a great scorer in set offensive pieces

1. the problem is can this guy be your go to guy in an elimination game in the playoffs? Think of all of the best players in NBA history. They all had reliable offensive moves and you could run the offense through them at key times. They could just take over the game.

2. So basically you are saying Love should be a second option and not the franchise.

[QUOTE=Dresta]Hence why he was able to score 26 a game, and why i don't think he'll average 27 this year. What don't you understand about that?

I was asked why i thought his points numbers would go down over the season when he averaged 26 last time he was healthy. Answer: he is not a versatile enough offensive player to average 27 on a playoff team. None of what you're accusing me of really has anything to do with what i said. You were just getting all defensive over nothing.

I still think he'll average around 25, i just said i thought his output would decline a bit from what it is now, only to get jumped on by loads of sensitive people.


Someone who can score at will in the post.[/QUOTE]

So you arguing about 2 ppg? And calling people assholes on the other side of that argument? :hammerhead:

Your argument basically boils down to, I don't like the way he scores. You're trying to discount his output because he's not conforming to your conception of a how a 27 ppg scorer should be.

Also teams will start to focus on Kevin Love later in the season? Any team that doesn't focus on Love when they play Minnesota should get a new coach as quick as possible. Dude ain't a rookie.

This is a discussion about stats. When the ball goes through the net the points count and your stats go up. It doesn't matter how the ball goes through the net. There's no stat called versatility.

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]So you arguing about 2 ppg? And calling people assholes on the other side of that argument? :hammerhead:

Your argument basically boils down to, I don't like the way he scores. You're trying to discount his output because he's not conforming to your conception of a how a 27 ppg scorer should be.

Also teams will start to focus on Kevin Love later in the season? Any team that doesn't focus on Love when they play Minnesota should get a new coach as quick as possible. Dude ain't a rookie.

This is a discussion about stats. When the ball goes through the net the points count and your stats go up. It doesn't matter how the ball goes through the net. There's no stat called versatility.[/QUOTE]
I was just giving my justification as to why i said i thought his points would drop 'a bit'

I didn't call anyone an asshole except you, not because you disagreed with me, but because i simply said why i thought his ppg would fall 'a bit' and got this pile of obnoxious bullshit from you:

'Which means none of those points should count and Kevin Love should just retire.


How many times are we going to have this conversation. Kevin Love does something nobody since Moses Malone has done, [SIZE="5"]BUT[/SIZE]

Kevin Love is doing something in his first nine games that no one since Kareem Abdul Jabbar has done for a full season, [SIZE="5"]BUT[/SIZE]'

What i said had nothing to do with that. You were just being an asshole.

[QUOTE=Dresta]I was just giving my justification as to why i said i thought his points would drop 'a bit'

I didn't call anyone an asshole except you, not because you disagreed with me, but because i simply said why i thought his ppg would fall 'a bit' and got this pile of obnoxious bullshit from you:

'Which means none of those points should count and Kevin Love should just retire.


How many times are we going to have this conversation. Kevin Love does something nobody since Moses Malone has done, [SIZE="5"]BUT[/SIZE]

Kevin Love is doing something in his first nine games that no one since Kareem Abdul Jabbar has done for a full season, [SIZE="5"]BUT[/SIZE]'

What i said had nothing to do with that. You were just being an asshole.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't taking issue with you saying his points would drop a bit. Any great 9 game streak is still just a 9 game streak. I was taking issue with this argument
[QUOTE]Because he isn't a versatile enough scorer to average 27. If he keeps it up he we get more and more focus put on him by opposing teams, and his numbers will fall. He won't keep getting the shots he's been getting. And, he will probably get injured at some point.[/QUOTE]
Which just doesn't make sense.
He's already proven he can average 26, what would be unusual about a star player getting better in their 6th year in the league. Versatility got absolutely nothing to do with it.
Teams aren't paying attention to him? Dude is easily the best player on his team and legitimately a top 10 player in the NBA, how do you overlook him? They've been sleeping on him?

This isn't some two-week Linsanity aberration where he is playing out of his head, this is a guy who has put up gaudy numbers before AND has shown the ability to elevate his game, by leaps and bounds. Perhaps he has done it again. The only stat that is truly out of whack with the number he has already proven he can put up is his assist average, not his points.

As for the BUT, BUT, I didn't say you gave those specific examples, but you making the same type of argument that always gets made with Kevin Love and FireDavidKahn knows exactly what I'm talking about. It basically boils down to he can't do what he does,[I][COLOR="Red"] and yet he does it.[/COLOR][/I]

If you look at his current numbers and compare then to his career bests, by percentage, you see that it's his assists, not his points that are the aberration.

Points. 104% of career best
Rebounds 93% of career best
Assists 204% of career best

[QUOTE=mugiwara]With the way he plays D coming from the PF spot I just cant see that happening.

[/QUOTE]

He plays OK defense, it's not really anything to complain about. Nothing to brag about either.

As great as those numbers are, Love has to lead a team to the playoffs and then produce in the playoffs to take him seriously as a legit superstar.

It might be a bit unfair, but there are too many guys in the history of the game that would be winning 55 or so games with that roster. Prime Dirk, for example, would have that team at 50 plus wins easily.

So until Love starts doing that, his true impact is a little suspect.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]As great as those numbers are, Love has to lead a team to the playoffs and then produce in the playoffs to take him seriously as a legit superstar.

It might be a bit unfair, but there are too many guys in the history of the game that would be winning 55 or so games with that roster. Prime Dirk, for example, would have that team at 50 plus wins easily.

So until Love starts doing that, his true impact is a little suspect.[/QUOTE]


Well they're 6 and 4 so far but it's still early. Do you think the T Wolves will make the playoffs?

[QUOTE=SacJB Shady]Well they're 6 and 4 so far but it's still early. Do you think the T Wolves will make the playoffs?[/QUOTE]

Yes. And they should...

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]As great as those numbers are, Love has to lead a team to the playoffs and then produce in the playoffs to take him seriously as a legit superstar.

It might be a bit unfair, but there are too many guys in the history of the game that would be winning 55 or so games with that roster. Prime Dirk, for example, would have that team at 50 plus wins easily.

So until Love starts doing that, his true impact is a little suspect.[/QUOTE]

He has never had a team until this season. Every team Love has been on has either been truly awful, or completely injured. He played 3 games with Rubio last year. They started D League 10 day contracts last year...... lots of them... because they didn't even have enough players to play a game.
Their FO has been kind of a joke. Did you know Kevin Love is the only Timberwolf still on the team from his rookie season? 2009. Brewer left and came back..... that's it.

Now THIS year's squad should go to the playoffs, imo, but blaming Love for what the Wolves have done in these past few seasons is based on something other than watching the Wolves. I have read enough of your posts to know you usually have solid points, so I suspect that is the case.

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]If you look at his current numbers and compare then to his career bests, by percentage, you see that it's his assists, not his points that are the aberration.

Points. 104% of career best
Rebounds 93% of career best
Assists 204% of career best[/QUOTE]

yeah. people are saying his points are going to go down as the season progresses. I doubt it. Unstoppable is unstoppable, whether it's Bernard King or Anthony or Love. They are going to score and all other teams know, they will just have to live with that fact.
But his assists may well take a hit. A) Kevin Martin has been amazing from 3 & Corey Brewer too....... but like Sir Charles always says, 'live by the 3, die by the 3.'.... and B) teams will figure out they have to sprint back on defense instantly after they shoot or they will pay for their slowness because Love plays basketball like it is 1972.

In year's past Love was stats-padding. This year Love is not stats-padding.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]In year's past Love was stats-padding. This year Love is not stats-padding.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, he's for real. All around game too. Even on defense if you throw a lazy pass he's gets his hands on it. Plays smart all the time... active. Always figures out a way to be effective. I'm a fan.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Yeah, he's for real. All around game too. Even on defense if you throw a lazy pass he's gets his hands on it. Plays smart all the time... active. Always figures out a way to be effective. I'm a fan.[/QUOTE]

Well, I was being facetious. I don't see Love playing much differently now than he has in year's past. The man has always been a hard-worker. Just look at his physique. How does a 6-8 guy with that body, and with nowhere near the athleticism of say a Dwight, win rebounding titles? A player can "stats-pad" their way to points by simply taking enough shots, but rebounding takes hard work and determination.

It's amazing how much better Love's numbers look now that he has a quality supporting cast.

It reminds me of KG. The guy played his heart out for years surrounded by poor rosters. Then when he was finally given some good teammates, he leads a team to a 66-16 record and a title.

Love definitely never had a decent team around him, with Rubio stepping up his game, a revived Kevin Martin along with Pek who has been solid. They have earned the respect of the league, fans should give credit where it's due as well.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Well, I was being facetious. I don't see Love playing much differently now than he has in year's past. The man has always been a hard-worker. Just look at his physique. How does a 6-8 guy with that body, and with nowhere near the athleticism of say a Dwight, win rebounding titles? A player can "stats-pad" their way to points by simply taking enough shots, but rebounding takes hard work and determination.

It's amazing how much better Love's numbers look now that he has a quality supporting cast.

It reminds me of KG. The guy played his heart out for years surrounded by poor rosters. Then when he was finally given some good teammates, he leads a team to a 66-16 record and a title.[/QUOTE]

exactly :applause:

all this bullcrap bout empty stat :facepalm :facepalm
dude was playin with a broken hand, and coming back from injury as good as ever, you cant do that without hard work and determination

and i like the comparison with KG minny :applause:

[QUOTE=dunksby]Love definitely never had a decent team around him, with Rubio stepping up his game, a revived Kevin Martin along with Pek who has been solid. They have earned the respect of the league, fans should give credit where it's due as well.[/QUOTE]

Pekovic is one of the most skilled centers in the NBA. He has learned how to ignore his only weakness, which is not much vertical... in fact he frequently has, surprisingly, turned it into a strength.
How?
Most centers have pretty good/great/insane vertical, but just as frequently they are dumber than rocks. This is nothing new: Barkley & Bird knew it in '85, McAdoo & Issel knew it in '75, Chamberlain & Russell & Baylor knew it in '65.
If you go to the hoop hard but simply stay on the ground with a hesitation or stutter step or ball fake.... inevitably these amazingly athletic idiots will hit their heads on the overhead scoreboard trying to block a shot.

You would think players would have learned this by now. It's a simple idea. But I saw Mel Counts & LeRoy Ellis do that stuff their entire careers.... and I watched Greg Monroe & Kenneth Faried, supposedly pretty good centers, do it last night. We're talking about 40+ years of stupidity.
It's epic.

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]But his assists may well take a hit. A) Kevin Martin has been amazing from 3 & Corey Brewer too....... but like Sir Charles always says, 'live by the 3, die by the 3.'.... and B) teams will figure out they have to sprint back on defense instantly after they shoot or they will pay for their slowness because Love plays basketball like it is 1972.[/QUOTE]

Well, one thing about his assists is that his coach has been running plays where he is the passer. He wants him to be Vlade Divac type big man that can stretch the court with this shot, but also make plays from the high post.

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]He has never had a team until this season. Every team Love has been on has either been truly awful, or completely injured. He played 3 games with Rubio last year. They started D League 10 day contracts last year...... lots of them... because they didn't even have enough players to play a game.
Their FO has been kind of a joke. Did you know Kevin Love is the only Timberwolf still on the team from his rookie season? 2009. Brewer left and came back..... that's it.

Now THIS year's squad should go to the playoffs, imo, but blaming Love for what the Wolves have done in these past few seasons is based on something other than watching the Wolves. I have read enough of your posts to know you usually have solid points, so I suspect that is the case.[/QUOTE]


Like I said. He has to start leading teams to 50 plus wins and performing well in the playoffs. I don't care all that much what has happened to this point.

But this team with prime Dirk is winning around 55 games probably. So I just want to see Love do that and then play well in the playoffs.

It's just hard to properly rate a guy that hasn't played a playoff game in his career. Regular season is almost meaningless to me.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Like I said. He has to start leading teams to 50 plus wins and performing well in the playoffs. I don't care all that much what has happened to this point.

But this team with prime Dirk is winning around 55 games probably. So I just want to see Love do that and then play well in the playoffs.

It's just hard to properly rate a guy that hasn't played a playoff game in his career. Regular season is almost meaningless to me.[/QUOTE]

Oh we will disagree forever about the regular season then. NBA Hoops is one of the most fun things there is on a fall or winter evening.
But the rest? Yes indeed, we shall see.