1990-1992 Michael Jordan Shot Chart

[QUOTE=Micku]The +/- on the Ortg really pretty shocking. The Net ORtg: +35.6 is simply insane. Legendary. While I do not Shaq net ORtg of 2000, I know his 2002 playoffs On − Off was +22.1. I'm shocked that the Bulls team sucked that much offensively without him. It didn't seem so when I was watching some of his games.

The +/- on Drtg is pretty big too. It's bigger than Kevin Garnett 04 (net -6.1) and Tim Duncan 03 (-5.1). While it doesn't mean he is better defensively, it just means he had crazy impact and his team didn't do well without him. That is also surprising because he had Pippen and Grant on the team.

I'm not that shocked about the midrange. He shot mostly jumpers anyway, and if you watch his games, you can tell how good he was. I'm shocked about him finishing around the rim tho. He seemed more like around 60% when watching him in the playoffs. I didn't expect a 70% with him finishing at the rim. Especially since the paint was much more crowded then than it is now. He has LeBron efficiency at the rim despite the harder difficulty.

Tho it's not the full season, it basically showed how epic prime MJ really was.[/QUOTE]

The data's on nba.com/stats, but you need to do the calculations yourself for the most part. I did on/off for a few notable bigs:

[url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At9OxyY2Zhw6dHNIeWFHSEpGeFlJcFdrNHRHLV9QZXc&usp=sharing[/url]

Shaq 00 had 8.3 ORtg diff, -1.5 DRtg diff, 10.1 net diff. Much better in the playoffs (12.9, -11.1, 24.0 total).

[QUOTE=scm5][url]http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James[/url]

75.4 in 2012
78.3 last season.

I don't know what his percentages are this season.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I thought the bottom row was the current season. Point stands though.

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]People jerking off to [B]arbitrary[/B] chosen games in this thread:facepalm

I wonder how many "off games" have been included in this. I doubt there were many.

Great work though.[/QUOTE]

When was that word used anywhere? PHILA used every available game of MJ online, no "choosing" involved. If a game is out there, it's included in the sample.

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]People jerking off to arbitrary chosen games in this thread:facepalm

I wonder how many "off games" have been included in this. I doubt there were many.

Great work though.[/QUOTE]

lol @ this jackass calling the games chosen "arbitrary" with ZERO justification. These were most of his available games from those seasons. lmao @ dude acting like the OP cherry picked the best games. :oldlol:

[quote]The +/- on Drtg is pretty big too. It's bigger than Kevin Garnett 04 (net -6.1) and Tim Duncan 03 (-5.1). While it doesn't mean he is better defensively, it just means he had crazy impact and his team didn't do well without him. That is also surprising because he had Pippen and Grant on the team.[/quote]
For what it's worth, Kevin Johnson has said that Jordan's defense was more devastating to the opposition than [I]"anything he could do offensively"[/I]. I guess this would give some credence to the belief of Bill Russell as the GOAT, strictly looking at it from an opponent's perspective.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaAwAAXF0po"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaAwAAXF0po[/URL]

[quote=Micku]The +/- on the Ortg really pretty shocking. The Net ORtg: +35.6 is simply insane. Legendary. While I do not Shaq net ORtg of 2000, I know his 2002 playoffs On − Off was +22.1. I'm shocked that the Bulls team sucked that much offensively without him. It didn't seem so when I was watching some of his games.[/quote]
Even more telling is that Pippen was in the game for a lot of those off court minutes for Jordan, since Phil Jackson would keep one of the two players in the game to play with the bench (unless it was garbage time). The Bulls bench was inconsistent, though I think the statistics here underrate their capabilities. Even players like Will Perdue (great passer) were excellent players within their roles off the bench. In Pippen's case, he was an excellent creator and deadly in transition, though his outside jump shot was a bit shaky. What is most impressive how he really improved his outside shooting over his career, considering how bad he was as a rookie.

But that bench came through for them in big games as well, notably Game 6 vs. Portland in the Finals. For a good portion of that game it looked like the Blazers were going to force a Game 7, but early in the 4th quarter the bench led by Pippen, Hansen, etc went on a run to cut the big Blazers lead down. When Jordan subbed back in he finished them off the last 6 minutes.

Imagine seeing an explosive move off the dribble like this in high definition

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF2iBb6fp5g"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF2iBb6fp5g[/URL]

[QUOTE=Micku]Basketball-reference say that his percentage was 77.6 in the regular season (last season):
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=jamesle01&year_id=2013&is_playoffs=0[/url]

Including the playoffs it was 75.6%
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/shooting/2013/[/url]

Nitpicking.[/QUOTE]

Well, to be fair to both sites, it's probably very hard to determine the difference between "at rim" and a shot that's 3 feet away from the basket sometimes. Same with the midrange percentages.

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]People jerking off to arbitrary chosen games in this thread:facepalm

I wonder how many "off games" have been included in this. I doubt there were many.

Great work though.[/QUOTE]

JORDAN AGAINST BAD BOY,KNICKS,SONICS,:bowdown: LEBRON AGAINST OLD SPURS,THUNDERS,MAVS :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher][B]People jerking off to arbitrary chosen games in this thread:facepalm

I wonder how many "off games" have been included in this. I doubt there were many.[/B]

Great work though.[/QUOTE]


Hater in the house!

[quote=scm5]Well, to be fair to both sites, it's probably very hard to determine the difference between "at rim" and a shot that's 3 feet away from the basket sometimes. Same with the midrange percentages.[/quote]

Yes, NBA.com charts have LeBron at 75.97% at the rim (restricted area) last season.

[URL="http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2544&zone-mode=basic&Season=2012-13"]http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2544&zone-mode=basic&Season=2012-13[/URL]


Shaq in 2001 (regular season) was at 77.37%.

[URL="http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=406&zone-mode=basic&Season=2000-01"]http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=406&zone-mode=basic&Season=2000-01[/URL]


In 2000, he was at 74.84%.

[URL="http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=406&zone-mode=basic&Season=1999-00"]http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=406&zone-mode=basic&Season=1999-00[/URL]

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Err, no, it's a (more than) representative sample over 3 full seasons. It's essentially a season and a half's worth of data. It's not "his best streaks" nor is it cherry picked.[/QUOTE]

Considering OP said its games he found available, and on the internet, its more than likely a collection of his better games, as most people would not want to watch his less than great games.

[quote]playoffs[/quote]
Playoff Only Crunch Time Statistics

24 Games Total

[URL="http://i.imgur.com/09XcdJP.png"]http://i.imgur.com/09XcdJP.png[/URL]



[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QsPpOrR.png[/IMG]



[B]Plus/Minus Total:[/B] +87

[B]Plus/Minus Per 48:[/B] +42.2

[B]Win Percentage:[/B] 70.8%





[B]Total Statistics[/B]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mkjVAW4.png[/IMG]




[B]Per 48 Statistics[/B]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pXUCEnY.png[/IMG]

GOAT gonna GOAT

[QUOTE=Derivative]GOAT gonna GOAT[/QUOTE]
Wrong thread. The GOATBrook appreciation thread is this way >> [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318168[/url]

[QUOTE=iTare]Wrong thread. The GOATBrook appreciation thread is that way >> [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=318168[/url][/QUOTE]


yea damn ur right:hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Highest peak of any player

[QUOTE=The_Pharcyde]Highest peak of any player[/QUOTE]
Shaq

[QUOTE=RoundMoundOfReb]Shaq[/QUOTE]
are you wrong about every single thing? can't you give your user back to your dad

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]are you wrong about every single thing? can't you give your user back to your dad[/QUOTE]
you put forth an excellent argument.

[QUOTE=PHILA]

[SIZE=3] [B]1 on 1 Defense[/B][/SIZE]

15/55 FG (27.3%)

[/QUOTE]

His offensive stats is not that surprising because we all know how great of a scorer MJ is, but damn, his defense is ****in beast! :bowdown:

Good find OP, GOAT gonna GOAT :pimp:

[QUOTE=PHILA]Playoff Only Crunch Time Statistics

24 Games Total

[URL="http://i.imgur.com/09XcdJP.png"]http://i.imgur.com/09XcdJP.png[/URL]



[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QsPpOrR.png[/IMG]



[B]Plus/Minus Total:[/B] +87

[B]Plus/Minus Per 48:[/B] +42.2

[B]Win Percentage:[/B] 70.8%





[B]Total Statistics[/B]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mkjVAW4.png[/IMG]




[B]Per 48 Statistics[/B]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/pXUCEnY.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:cheers: for the research.

Jordan's best years in the game were those between 1990 and 1993 during his first 3peet. And any normal basketball who had watch games during '80s would confirm that.
Jordan himself had stated in 1996 (by memory - no time to search) that at the moment he was feeling at his best, knowing the game better, more mature than before (prior to his 1st retirement in 1993). But I tend to disagree and I think it has to do more with his ego and competitive nature rather than bein objective - no way Jordan would admit that he was not the same player of course as he was still the best in the league. When Jordan suddenly returned to the game at the end of '95 season he was clearly and visibly off shape. He was slower, less explosive and probably some 10 pounds heavier. Although he had some Jordanesque games like the one in which he scored 55 vs Knicks, he was probably for the first time vulnerable he was not the basketball god he was two years before. In the offseason he worked hard to be in shape and returned strong for the next season. The other is history.

LMAO @ yet another thread spreading more Jordan 'myths'.

Bump


GOAT

[QUOTE=andgar923]LMAO @ yet another thread spreading more Jordan 'myths'.[/QUOTE]

You do realize those stats are from a collection of his best games in those seasons, since these are the ones available on the internet, right?

All those stats are trending on the high side based on that.

[QUOTE=plowking]You do realize those stats are from a collection of his best games in those seasons, since these are the ones available on the internet, right?

All those stats are trending on the high side based on that.[/QUOTE]

You do realize he shot .497 or 50% with 30.1 ppg for his whole career? That is very close to the numbers posted. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Asukal]You do realize he shot .497 or 50% with 30.1 ppg for his whole career? That is very close to the numbers posted. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

We're constantly told by MJ fans his jumpshot got better as he got older... since he refined his game and all that.

Well, he isn't shooting 50% from midrange then, in 91, when he was shooting under 50% in his second 3 peat while becoming a so called better shooter. Especially when you factor in how good a finisher he was at the ring.
So it is literally impossible for him to have been a 50% midrange shooter, given the list of games would have been from his more impressive games, and the fact that he became a better shooter makes it obvious it was trending on the high side in terms of stats.

In reality, he was probably a 70% shooter near the basket, and anywhere from 43-46% from midrange. Similar to Chris Paul in that regard from midrange.

[QUOTE=plowking][B]We're constantly told by MJ fans his jumpshot got better as he got older... since he refined his game and all that.
[/B]
Well, he isn't shooting 50% from midrange then, in 91, [B]when he was shooting under 50% in his second 3 peat while becoming a so called better shooter[/B]. Especially when you factor in how good a finisher he was at the ring.
So it is literally impossible for him to have been a 50% midrange shooter, given the list of games would have been from his more impressive games, and the fact that he became a better shooter makes it obvious it was trending on the high side in terms of stats.

In reality, he was probably a 70% shooter near the basket, and anywhere from 43-46% from midrange. Similar to Chris Paul in that regard from midrange.[/QUOTE]

That's totally not true. 80's MJ had great midrange game, its just that he relied more on his ability to get to the paint. Past his prime, he relied more on his iso fadeaways which are tough shots so his efficiency dipped a bit. He was a great mid range shooter since day 1. :whatever:

[QUOTE=Asukal]That's totally not true. 80's MJ had great midrange game, its just that he relied more on his ability to get to the paint. Past his prime, he relied more on his iso fadeaways which are tough shots so his efficiency dipped a bit. He was a great mid range shooter since day 1. :whatever:[/QUOTE]

[B]Can say it depends on one's definition of 'great' but you're totally on point there.

In the mid-80's he was killing teams by slashing/driving with his freakish athleticism, major finishing skills and very good handles... To go along with that, he had a sick jumpshot from just outside the paint, call it close-range or not but it was from what it's considered mid-range area. Plus, he could jump out the gym as known, while doing just that for those J's and releasing it at the peak out his jump... Many times you'd see him pumpfaking in mid-air and still making the shot.

As the years passed he always improved his overall game along with his jumper, most importantly his range...
By the late-80's he was wetting them mid-range J's, even deep ones. And then even developed into a solid 3pt-shooter.

Ofc, as the years went by he lost some athleticism, later on still a great overall athlete but relying more on jumpers... Thing is that he always developed, including his post-game, so on...

BTW, Jordan was a better FT shooter in his younger days.
[/B]

No matter how you slice it or analyze it, MJ always comes out on top. He is legit. Nothing was given to him. Everyone tried to beat him but he accepted the challenge, took on all comers and beat them all. No one was able to impose his will on the game on both ends better than MJ. They don't say, "the Michael Jordan of XXXX" for no reason. It is like an accepted phrase in American culture. When someone is so great at something, people will say that phrase.

:bowdown:

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]People jerking off to arbitrary chosen games in this thread:facepalm

I wonder how many "off games" have been included in this. I doubt there were many.

Great work though.[/QUOTE]

Probably not, Jordan didn't have many off games.

So now we're arguing with presumption? Hope that doesn't become an ISH thing. Give me the arbitrary numbers which are at least factual over purely guessing.

[QUOTE=plowking]We're constantly told by MJ fans his jumpshot got better as he got older... since he refined his game and all that.

Well, he isn't shooting 50% from midrange then, in 91, when he was shooting under 50% in his second 3 peat while becoming a so called better shooter. Especially when you factor in how good a finisher he was at the ring.
So it is literally impossible for him to have been a 50% midrange shooter, given the list of games would have been from his more impressive games, and the fact that he became a better shooter makes it obvious it was trending on the high side in terms of stats.

In reality, he was probably a 70% shooter near the basket, and anywhere from 43-46% from midrange. Similar to Chris Paul in that regard from midrange.[/QUOTE]
Umm CP3 has been near 50% from midrange the past couple seasons and well above this season while doing all the creating himself pretty much, very lowly assisted, from pullups. He has the best midrange in the league now that Dirk is past prime
CP3 is a top 5 midrange ever anyways, only behind Dirk, Bird and MJ, maybe Dantley/English

I hear Jordan loves to make that "baaa baaa" sound. You know why? Cause he's the freaking GOAT!

The illegal defense rules inflated offensive numbers by hindering team defense,

you guys

:facepalm

[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]

The illegal defense rules inflated offensive numbers by hindering team defense

[/QUOTE]

Paint camping was legal in previous eras, whereas today it's banned.. Hand-checking and various physicality has also been banned - defense is now hands-off.

But the most important thing is spacing - there was none in previous eras - teams only took 2 three-pointers per game in 1985, compared to 22 per game today.. With no spacing, all the driving, cutting, and passing lanes were smaller - offense was harder for everyone.

The lack of spacing left the strongside with more defenders too - defenders in previous eras didn't have to guard weakside 3-pointers, so they didn't have to BE on the weakside - all defenders remained on the strongside and/or in the paint, and therefore closest to help on strongside action:


[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif[/IMG]



Otoh, in today's game, defenders must guard weakside spacing.. To defend weakside 3-pointers, [I]defenders must position themselves behind the far side of the paint on the weakside[/I], therefore leaving the paint wide open while being furthest away to help on strongside action:


[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/6-05-2015/P5Zone.gif[/IMG]


MJ never faced a paint that was wide open with no defenders.. EVER.. This is a fact..

But it's clear as day in today's game - every team's 3-point shooting and spacing strategy uses weakside spacing to reduce the number of strongside defenders.. Players routinely face strongsides with only 1 or 2 defenders, due to weakside floor-spreaders that lure defenders away.. The weakside spacing and resulting porous strongsides necessitate the flooding of defenders BACK TO the strongside - this is how strongside floods originated.

Otoh, weakside spacing didn't exist in previous eras, so defenders weren't lured away - defenders just remained on the strongside, which meant players faced strongsides that were [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11128077&postcount=21][u]already flooded with all 5 defenders[/u][/url].. The difference is night and day - just a completely different game altogether..

Today's weakside spacing and resulting porous strongsides make strongside isolations easier to execute and more effective.. However, in the 2015 Finals, Golden State let Lebron isolate all alone on the strongside - Lebron is such a poor shooter and horrible isolation player, that letting him isolate made mathematical sense.. Lebron only shot 32.5% on isolations in the playoffs - it always makes the most sense to let a player attempt a 32.5% shot over and over.. The Warriors exploited the Cavs by letting Lebron isolate at 32.5% a pop over and over:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378398[/url]
.

[QUOTE=JimmyMcAdocious]So now we're arguing with presumption? Hope that doesn't become an ISH thing. Give me the arbitrary numbers which are at least factual over purely guessing.[/QUOTE]
Ikr. At least use stats or even damn clip gifs to help prove a point.

Bump

[QUOTE=PHILA][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ricSzdw.jpg[/IMG]


126 Games Total

[url]http://i.imgur.com/g3XPS5u.png[/url]

[B]1989-90:[/B] 35 games
[B]1990-91:[/B] 44 games
[B]1991-92:[/B] 47 games


[SIZE=5] [B]Shot Chart[/B][/SIZE]


[B]At Rim:[/B] 629/847 FG (74.3%)
[B]In Paint (Overall):[/B] 786/1333 FG (59.0%)
[B]Midrange:[/B] 793/1552 FG (51.1%)
[B]3 Point:[/B] 93/243 FG (38.3%)

[SIZE=2][B]Shot Attempts Blocked (Offense):[/B][/SIZE] 67

*This means 2.1% of his shots (3128 FGA) were blocked in this footage

[B]Overall Chart[/B]

[B]Isolation Plays Only[/B]

[SIZE=5][B]Team Performance[/B][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][B]Plus/Minus[/B][/SIZE]

[B]Plus/Minus Total:[/B] +1767

[B]Plus/Minus Per 100:[/B] +18.3

[SIZE=3][B]On/Off[/B][/SIZE]

[B]On Court ORtg:[/B] 123.9

[B]Off Court ORtg:[/B] 88.3

[B]Net ORtg:[/B] +35.6

[B]On Court DRtg:[/B] 105.5

[B]Off Court DRtg:[/B] 114.8

[B]Net DRtg:[/B] -9.3

[B]On/Off Net Rating:[/B] 44.9

[SIZE=5] [B]Clutch Play[/B][/SIZE]

59 Total Games

[B][I]4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points[/I][/B]


[SIZE=3][B]Plus/Minus Total:[/B][/SIZE] +246

[SIZE=3][B]Plus/Minus Per 48:[/B][/SIZE] +48.8

[SIZE=3][B]Win Percentage:[/B][/SIZE] 74.6 %



[SIZE=3] [B]1 on 1 Defense[/B][/SIZE]

15/55 FG (27.3%)


[B]Total Statistics[/B]

[B]Per 48 Statistics[/B]


[I][B]Sports Illustrated - May 21, 1990[/B]

It wasn't so much that Hawkins scored only two points in the final 12 minutes, it was more that Jordan wouldn't even let him touch the ball. The least recognized part of Jordan's game is his ability to slip picks and suddenly pop up in the passing lane, like a kid who finds a shortcut to the candy store. "Nobody has ever been better at the end of a game than Michael," said Bulls coach Phil Jackson afterward. " Oscar Robertson was great, but this guy is a closer at both ends."[/I]



[I][B]Sports Illustrated - June 28, 1993[/B]

There would seem to be four players with whom realistically to compare Jordan: Magic and Bird, both of whom were three-time regular-season MVPs; Bill Russell, the ultimate winner, who led the Celtics to 11 championships in 13 seasons; and Oscar Robertson, whose versatility, leadership and coldhearted competitiveness during 13 seasons make him closest to Jordan in playing style.

"Oscar was great defensively when he wanted to be," says 68-year-old Bull assistant Johnny Bach. "But Michael is the Tasmanian devil."[/I]




[SIZE=3][B][I]"No matter what the game is or who you're playing against, you have to want the ball."[/I][/B][/SIZE]


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIAow8OKOeM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIAow8OKOeM[/URL][/QUOTE]


I'm really hope you preserved this incredible body of work somehow. GoogleSheets or some spreadsheet that can't get lost on a laptop or something. This is an incredible amount of work that I'd love to see completed for as many games as possible. I'd love to start a group where we email teams asking for pbp data prior to 1997. From Harvey Pollack's work, there was definitely play pbp data back to 1988 as he had dunk totals and many other stats on all other NBA teams up to that point. Prior to that, he kept 76ers stats (so it seems) back to the 1960s fairly well. After that, probably would try to get video (much less likely I'd imagine, but can't hurt to ask). Would love to digitize as much PBP data as possible, especially shot distances, dunks, etc.