Melo his future....

[QUOTE=Rameek][B]I dont think Amare gets a pass but he's out of sight out of mind. I blame the FO for Amare. This guy was going to break down everyone in the league knew it but the Knicks didnt care.

I just wish Melo had a little more MOTIVATION, FIRE, LEADERSHIP win at all cost. Give me everything you got on the court take control of the floor and locker room. He needs to be "THE MAN".[/B][/QUOTE]

I think he does though. I think he is ridiculed excessively because he has a laid back personality. Mellow if you will. Everyone ain't a rah rah type of guy. I see him turn it up when he plays guys like LeBron. I see him increasing his rebounds this year. I've seen him pull guys like JR to the side and have man to man talks. At some point, we gotta stop with the "make others better" talks and start holding guys accountable for improving and stepping their own games up. Shump improved his jumpshot and Amare worked on his post game. Other than that, what role player has really added to their game?

[B]I cant see Melo staying unless they dump Stat. I dont think he is going to bother to wait until Chandler and Stat money comes off the books.[/B]

[QUOTE=franchize]My opinion:
1. Because he lead the league in scoring last year and is like #2 this year.
2. Because I personally feel he's one of the best players in the league.
3. Because no player I feel is better than Carmelo will be available. Ex. We don't have a shot at LeBron and Durant will be part of the Thunder for years to come.
4. Despite our record this year, we overachieved last year and I personally think he was the biggest reason why.
5. Because he is one of a handful of players who can truly compete head up with LeBron James.
6. Because we don't have draft picks or many assets to replace a player of his caliber.
7. Because he's the best player we've had since Patrick Ewing. I do recall us paying Allan Houston a shit load of money btw.

So there's my rationale. People on this board have readily said "why should we keep him?" and "we should just blow it up". well there's my answer. Now I'd love to see everyone's plan once we "blow it up". The bottom feeder teams "blow it up" all the time. Cap space doesn't win championships tho. So what's the plan when we do get rid of the disease that apparently Carmelo Anthony is lol?[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. We haven't had a player like this guy since Ewing. I for one don't want to wait another 10+ years to acquire a talent like this. We gave up a lot to get him, but he's here now and we have a second chance at getting it right. I like Melo; he's won me over with his rebounding and personality... certainly not the same Melo who played under Karl. He doesn't deserve half the hate he gets here.

[QUOTE=knickscity]other than eye test and impact...you're right there's no evidence.

Just for this post....add Blake Griffin to it....that dude is carrying the Clippers now even without CP3.

playing defense and knocking down jumpers and threes along with good passing and running the fastbreak.

[B]I'm tempted to put Chris Bosh in front as well....but I'll be nice.[/B][/QUOTE]
:biggums: :banghead:

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]:biggums: :banghead:[/QUOTE]
Don't even bother dude. He's "smarter" than all of us. :rolleyes:

Folks just enjoy wallowing in their excuses.

Melo's talent hasnt ever been questioned.

The only thing that matters to me is the Knicks winning.

I saw King live when he set the record, but I was a young...but he lost, still one of the greatest things I had seen, but in my older age...he lost.

Melo's 62 was great as well, no dispute there, but the team WON and thats what I care about more, this individual stuff doesnt excite me over my team being in position to win something meaningful.

There is two things about Melo i question, and only time can answer....

Can he win as the best player, and will a fellow star player join him in that quest....winning.....and at the very least being in position to win is the end all.

Nothing wrong when Ewing lost to the Bulls, at least he got to play them several times as one of the better teams in the East.

Melo has yet to do that.

Can he do that? Can he attract the help or is he good enough to be the one to carry the team?

The lineup for that King 60 point game:

Bernard King
Darrell Walker
Rory Sparrow
Pat Cummings
James Bailey

:rolleyes:

Just like King and Ewing, Melo lacks the help adequate help to get him over the top. It would be nice to see fellow Knicks fans open their eyes for once. :eek:

[B]I think I will always fall between both of Knickcity and Franchize on this Melo thing.

I know Melo isnt good enough to carry anything (Knickcity:pimp: ) so he needs significantly more talent (Franchize:D ) because of that he isnt a MAX player (me:bowdown:) [/B]

[QUOTE=Rameek][B]I think I will always fall between both of Knickcity and Franchize on this Melo thing.

I know Melo isnt good enough to carry anything (Knickcity:pimp: ) so he needs significantly more talent (Franchize:D ) because of that he isnt a MAX player (me:bowdown:) [/B][/QUOTE]
i actually agree with all this.

3 years ago called. No one player can carry a team any more. Have you guys not seen Miami's roster? If your argument for him not being a Max player is that he can't do it alone, then nobody in the league is a max player.

What I don't get is, people are ok with overpaying for guys who shouldn't even be in the league but turn up their nose at paying extra for our clear cut best player.

like it or not, melo is gonna get a max deal, its up to melo to accept it, or take it upon himself to structure his deal in a way that can help the team bring in new guys to help him...he can back load his contract so that knicks can have room to possibly bring in 2 other max guys to help share the burden on offense and defense...

Our first priority should be trading Tyson Chandler.

[QUOTE=franchize]3 years ago called. No one player can carry a team any more. Have you guys not seen Miami's roster? If your argument for him not being a Max player is that he can't do it alone, then nobody in the league is a max player.

What I don't get is, people are ok with overpaying for guys who shouldn't even be in the league but turn up their nose at paying extra for our clear cut best player.[/QUOTE]
Melo at 130 million is overpaying.

And if a player is possibly the highest paid in the league i absolutely expect them to carry their team.

He wont need help if hes willing to soak up 40% of the cap.

[QUOTE=franchize]Our first priority should be trading Tyson Chandler.[/QUOTE]

I agree. It hasn't worked out as planned. I think the Tyson deal may have spelled doom regarding Dolan's relationship with Donnie Walsh.

[QUOTE=smoovegittar]I agree. It hasn't worked out as planned. I think the Tyson deal may have spelled doom regarding Dolan's relationship with Donnie Walsh.[/QUOTE]
[B]If I remember correctly Stat and Tyson were of the Dolan faction not the GM.[/B]

[QUOTE=Rameek][B]If I remember correctly Stat and Tyson were of the Dolan faction not the GM.[/B][/QUOTE]
Correct, Walsh was gone by then.

[QUOTE=Rameek][B]If I remember correctly Stat and Tyson were of the Dolan faction not the GM.[/B][/QUOTE]

My bad -Tyson agreed to sign a few months after Walsh left. But Amare was on board. I just feel that if Donnie had more sway, we wouldn't have ended up with this mess. Dolan just can't seem to stay out of the way; he reminds me of Jerry Jones.

Donnie Walsh and Isaiah Thomas are responsible for Amare Stoudemire. Grunwald is responsible for for Tyson Chandler.

[QUOTE=franchize]Donnie Walsh and Isaiah Thomas are responsible for Amare Stoudemire. Grunwald is responsible for for Tyson Chandler.[/QUOTE]
[B]I thought Donnie didnt wanted Stat but not at the price that was paid and IT and Dolan made it happen not to lose out on that FA time.



Has Melo come out again recently and said that he cant wait to explore free agency or ESPN are regurgitating the same info from October?[/B]

[QUOTE=Rameek][B]I thought Donnie didnt wanted Stat but not at the price that was paid and IT and Dolan made it happen not to lose out on that FA time.



Has Melo come out again recently and said that he cant wait to explore free agency or ESPN are regurgitating the same info from October?[/B][/QUOTE]
Amare himself denied he was recruited by isiah, saying he never spoke to him at all.

As far as melo, he did state he would take less to help the team add players, even mentioned he has made enough money that he could retire today.

he also stated his priority is to resign with the Knicks.

[B]Ok I found it.[/B]

[url]http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/10458306/carmelo-anthony-says-take-less-money-free-agency-re-sign-new-york-knicks[/url]

[B]This guy says a whole lot of nothing :facepalm

Melo also said he hasnt heard the Knicks are trading him so he can strong arm them or we lose them for nothing.

This guy should be traded before the deadline. [/B]

[QUOTE=Rameek]

This guy should be traded before the deadline. [/B][/QUOTE]


I'll never understand why anyone would want to trade him away before ever even trying to build around him. Is it going to be that easy to get another guy like him or do you just want a lottery team.


He's not going to leave the Knicks as a straight free agent signing.



Instead of all your crying about Carmelo not being good enough why don't you propose a trade? You don't want him- everybody knows that. What do you want?

[QUOTE=el gringos]I'll never understand why anyone would want to trade him away before ever even trying to build around him. Is it going to be that easy to get another guy like him or do you just want a lottery team.


He's not going to leave the Knicks as a straight free agent signing.



Instead of all your crying about Carmelo not being good enough why don't you propose a trade? You don't want him- everybody knows that. What do you want?[/QUOTE]
You have a lotto team with him, and you dont even have the pick due to the same deal.

i doubt the Knicks trade melo, he makes them alot of money....he's a ticket seller.

they have tried to build around him, they have failed and likely will continue to do so.

Only this time around...he'll be 31 years old in 2015

[QUOTE=el gringos]I'll never understand why anyone would want to trade him away before ever even trying to build around him. Is it going to be that easy to get another guy like him or do you just want a lottery team.


He's not going to leave the Knicks as a straight free agent signing.



Instead of all your crying about Carmelo not being good enough why don't you propose a trade? You don't want him- everybody knows that. What do you want?[/QUOTE]
[B]So he's been here for how many years? How close was this team to a championship? Has the front office done anything differently the past 2 years that improved the team (They did add youth in Hardaway Jr., Murry, Tyler :applause: ).

What you fail to grasp is... [I][U]HE DOES NOT HAVE TO OPT OUT[/U][/I]. So if [I][U]he intends to OPT out[/U][/I] and [U][I]explore FA[/I][/U] then that means he doesnt have to come back. What will we get in return if he decides to bolt?

If you have read anything I ever wrote I dont want to trade him [U][I]UNLESS[/I][/U] he has [U][I]decided to OPT OUT[/I][/U] then he can go [I][U]kick rocks via trade[/U][/I]. [/B]

[QUOTE=knickscity]

they have tried to build around him

[/QUOTE]
Oh ok so you are under the impression that basketball is like a video game where you get a ranking and that's how good you are and not a believer that different skills fit around each other differently.


Building a team w no shooting and a need for Carmelo to play primarily as a ball handler from the perimeter does not count as "building around" his talent.


All sf's should play the same game. All pg's or pf's should play the same way? You should start following girls basketball if that's what you want.

Sad that you can't see that different players have different strengths.

[QUOTE=el gringos]Oh ok so you are under the impression that basketball is like a video game where you get a ranking and that's how good you are and not a believer that different skills fit around each other differently.


Building a team w no shooting and a need for Carmelo to play primarily as a ball handler from the perimeter does not count as "building around" his talent.


All sf's should play the same game. All pg's or pf's should play the same way? You should start following girls basketball if that's what you want.

Sad that you can't see that different players have different strengths.[/QUOTE]
they have tried to build around him and thats the issue...build an actual team and if he's good enough he'll take it to the next step.

And who says they have no shooting, wasnt that was Bargnani was supposed to provide? JR? They even drafted a shooter in hardaway.

What they didnt do was address their weaknesses....big man depth and a decent pg....the obvious stuff.

but hey we got bargnani and a broken down world peace.:lol

[QUOTE=knickscity]they have tried to build around him and thats the issue...build an actual team and if he's good enough he'll take it to the next step.

And who says they have no shooting, wasnt that was Bargnani was supposed to provide? JR? They even drafted a shooter in hardaway.

What they didnt do was address their weaknesses....big man depth and a decent pg....the obvious stuff.

but hey we got bargnani and a broken down world peace.:lol[/QUOTE]
But Woodson goes to extreme lengths to avoid playing those shooters with Carmelo, forcing him to the perimeter.

Mentioning pg is right. You shouldn't want Carmelo playing the perimeter so much, but that's what you get when you have guards that can't shoot or create off the dribble.

The idea of fitting your best players around the others is crazy. It's the others that should be fit around Carmelo. And when you can see that they don't fit you exchange them for others- that's why they're called role players.

[QUOTE=el gringos]But Woodson goes to extreme lengths to avoid playing those shooters with Carmelo, forcing him to the perimeter.

Mentioning pg is right. You shouldn't want Carmelo playing the perimeter so much, but that's what you get when you have guards that can't shoot or create off the dribble.

The idea of fitting your best players around the others is crazy. It's the others that should be fit around Carmelo. And when you can see that they don't fit you exchange them for others- that's why they're called role players.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense, bargs started almost every game, JR still plays a ton and even Hardaway has gotten ample minutes...those guys are subpar.

We dont have role players, we have subpar players....and thats where it begins.

You build a team, this building around one guys doesnt work, unless that guys is good enough to do it all.

Role players can fit any system, which is why they hop from team to team and are utilized for their skills, thus building around THEM.

You think Miami hasnt built around their role player? Yes they have.

Chicago is being held together primarily because of their role players....for two years running.

The Knicks should not be so dependent on one player....build an actual team.

[B]What annoys me is that why does this guy have to opt out? He could just stay for the current contract and then see what will happen.

On paper the team will be in a great position next year and lets see if this guy can recruit other players.[/B]

[QUOTE=Rameek][B]What annoys me is that why does this guy have to opt out? He could just stay for the current contract and then see what will happen.

On paper the team will be in a great position next year and lets see if this guy can recruit other players.[/B][/QUOTE]
Your first sentence is the point all Knicks fans think about. No "hometown discount" in the world would make up for not waiting until amare and chandler expire to become a free agent.


But here is the deal. Carmelo let it be known that he'd opt out. So anyone buying into the idea of cap space is stupid. It will never happen. The deck should have been re shuffled yet the Knicks failed to do so.

[QUOTE=el gringos]Your first sentence is the point all Knicks fans think about. No "hometown discount" in the world would make up for not waiting until amare and chandler expire to become a free agent.


But here is the deal. Carmelo let it be known that he'd opt out. So anyone buying into the idea of cap space is stupid. It will never happen. The deck should have been re shuffled yet the Knicks failed to do so.[/QUOTE]
[B]He said he would play for less already. So either he plays for 23 mill or get 26 mill.... Its dumb.

Like I said if you know he is going to opt out they should have shipped his ass away.[/B]

[B]I love the message from Phil on the Melo situation it was a subtle shot and a strong stance. This is how an organization is supposed to be run no KOWTOWING to a pseudo star. I'm on board with the stance. Don't opt out or take less money on the next contract. The amount that would make Phil happy with less is not obviously clear but for me around 20 mill would make me comfortable. This will definitely be another test on the relationship between Dolan and Phil. If Dolan tries to do that back door deal with Melo I am sure Phil will destroy the Knicks organization already terrible credibility on his way out the door and this team will be a FURTHER PARIAH in the NBA.

For the first time since the Zeke era I really believe that if Melo leaves this team can find another player(s) eventually to come because of Phil Jax credibility and stabilizing the organization not based on being over payed. [/B]

[QUOTE=Rameek][B]I love the message from Phil on the Melo situation it was a subtle shot and a strong stance. This is how an organization is supposed to be run no KOWTOWING to a pseudo star. I'm on board with the stance. Don't opt out or take less money on the next contract. The amount that would make Phil happy with less is not obviously clear but for me around 20 mill would make me comfortable. This will definitely be another test on the relationship between Dolan and Phil. If Dolan tries to do that back door deal with Melo I am sure Phil will destroy the Knicks organization already terrible credibility on his way out the door and this team will be a FURTHER PARIAH in the NBA.

For the first time since the Zeke era I really believe that if Melo leaves this team can find another player(s) eventually to come because of Phil Jax credibility and stabilizing the organization not based on being over payed. [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm feeling this too. Isola was kicking up shit already today, but Phil calmly addressed the media and put that shit to rest. NYC media still salty at Dolan's hush policy. If Melo wants to chase the money, then I'm thrilled he'll be gone and we can get some youth in here. If he stays, then I consider him to be worthy of the adoration should we build around him and actually win a ship.

...and you wanna talk about salty bitches in here if that happens. I'd just read all the hate and bask in the glory. Better times ahead already begun.

[QUOTE=Rameek][B]I love the message from Phil on the Melo situation it was a subtle shot and a strong stance. This is how an organization is supposed to be run no KOWTOWING to a pseudo star. I'm on board with the stance. Don't opt out or take less money on the next contract. The amount that would make Phil happy with less is not obviously clear but for me around 20 mill would make me comfortable. This will definitely be another test on the relationship between Dolan and Phil. If Dolan tries to do that back door deal with Melo I am sure Phil will destroy the Knicks organization already terrible credibility on his way out the door and this team will be a FURTHER PARIAH in the NBA.

For the first time since the Zeke era I really believe that if Melo leaves this team can find another player(s) eventually to come because of Phil Jax credibility and stabilizing the organization not based on being over payed. [/B][/QUOTE]
Dolan may have incredibly stupid moments, but that would be unthinkable.

Phil let it be known a team will be formed and direction, and thats music to my ears.

[B]Franchize no need to respond I got part of your response here:[/B]

[B]NBA legend Oscar Robertson advises Carmelo Anthony to leave Knicks, sign with Houston Rockets


Read more: [url]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/oscar-robertson-tells-melo-ditch-knicks-rockets-article-1.1767870#ixzz2zy4R8UWq[/url][/B]

[QUOTE]Hall of Famer Oscar Robertson has one piece of advice for Knick superstar Carmelo Anthony:

Get out of New York!

Robertson, while speaking to Spike Lee on SiriusXM NBA Radio on Thursday, had some pointed comments about the Knicks and the Big Apple.

[QUOTE=Rameek][B]Franchize no need to respond I got part of your response here:[/B]

[B]NBA legend Oscar Robertson advises Carmelo Anthony to leave Knicks, sign with Houston Rockets


Read more: [url]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/oscar-robertson-tells-melo-ditch-knicks-rockets-article-1.1767870#ixzz2zy4R8UWq[/url][/B][/QUOTE]
I would watch every single Rockets game just to see that cluster**** of three ball hungry dudes trying to get one ball.

Big O is pretty silly with this though, he think melo should leave because of criticism?:roll:

Ironically the vast majority hasnt put any blame on Melo for this season in particular, but no matter where you play...criticism will be there, so while running you cant avoid it....just win.