I cannot take this current era of players seriously because of no hand checking

[QUOTE=tpols]This is pretty much the definition of someone whose blinded by nostalgia lol

Like the Pacers Heat series wasnt physical.. a 290lb Hibbert was allowed to bodycheck everyone at the rim w/o getting called for anything. That series was very physical..

And what is Paul George handchecking going to do to Lebron? Hes got like 30+ lbs on him and has four main weapons for scoring, shooting threes, sealing somebody off on the block, fastbreak, or slashing with a running start. Handchecking would do nothing to stop him as you cant hold.. you can only push, and Lebron generates enough force to where he can completely override any small contact.

Joke. [B]MJ got more superstar calls and favorable treatment than Lebron did.. lets be real[/B]:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Do people seriously not remember the current Durant jokes being made about Jordan? Shit like "you can't breathe on him" or "if you stand too close to him, it's a foul". I mean, these kind of things were pretty commonly said about Jordan.

[QUOTE=Quickening]MJ had 3 consecutive seasons in the 80s where he had more free throw attempts per game than Durant this year... :lol :roll:[/QUOTE]

people will never concede their own era.. players could be playing in high tech space suits with turbo boosts and jetpacks on 20 ft rims and older fans would be ranting about how much better it was back in their day

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Jordan actually only shot 1 free throw in his entire career and it was a technical. They never called fouls, even if he got hit in the face. Jordan had it tough.

Back then, you could smash a guys face in, and it wasn't even a foul. I mean, imagine an era where you could do something as drastic as breaking a guy's nose without a foul being called.[/QUOTE]
Ron Artest broke 2 of Wizards MJ' s ribs and he said he "loved the passion". Hell Beverley just broke his nose yesterday and he'll wear a mask Friday. It's sports, there are injuries. Deal with it.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Do people seriously not remember the current Durant jokes being made about Jordan? Shit like "you can't breathe on him" or "if you stand too close to him, it's a foul". I mean, these kind of things were pretty commonly said about Jordan.[/QUOTE]
LeBron went months without fouling last year. It works both ways.

[QUOTE=Rocketswin2013]Ron Artest broke 2 of Wizards MJ' s ribs and he said he "loved the passion". Hell Beverley just broke his nose yesterday and he'll wear a mask Friday. It's sports, there are injuries. Deal with it.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what point you're making.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]thats because he actively tries to injure players every game.
if handchecking was allowed a fraud like harden wouldnt even crack 10ppg so u might just shut up:coleman:[/QUOTE]
Nah, Harden is the best I've seen at ripping through a reaching defenders arm. His PPG would skyrocket.

[QUOTE=Quickening]MJ had 3 consecutive seasons in the 80s where he had more free throw attempts per game than Durant this year... :lol :roll:[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:
but still, the man had it so tough from those crooked refs...it's pretty hilarious when you think about it, since Jordan even ended his second three peat career with an uncalled offensive push-off and a title winning basket thanks to it lol

[QUOTE=Rocketswin2013]LeBron went months without fouling last year. It works both ways.[/QUOTE]
Whose alt are you, bro? Pretending to be a Rockets fan. All I've seen you do is hate on the Heat and LeBron.

BTW, LeBron went 6 games without fouling in a span of 10-12 days. Not "months". :facepalm

[QUOTE=aj1987]Whose alt are you, bro? Pretending to be a Rockets fan. All I've seen you do is hate on the Heat and LeBron.

BTW, LeBron went 6 games without fouling in a span of 10-12 days. Not "months". :facepalm[/QUOTE]

Nah. I'm a diehard rockets fan. Trolling LeBron fans is fun though.

[quote]Joe Johnson was asked about the handchecking rule during the summer of 2011: “It benefits me,” said Joe Johnson, one of three players (Mike Bibby and Jamal Crawford are the others) on the Hawks’ roster who have averaged 20 or more points in a season. “It definitely changes the game because it gives every guy that extra step. “If we could hand check now, the game would be totally different,” Johnson said. “If they couldn’t hand check back in the day, there are some guys that would have been even better than they were. It would have been nuts for some of the big-time scorers and perimeter players from the 1980s and 1990s. Can you imagine what [Michael] Jordan would have done in a league where you couldn’t hand check.”[/quote]

Yeah, JJ was just being nostalgic. What does an NBA player TODAY know? :confusedshrug:

imagine durant in the 80s while keeping his ref protection, he'd average 30ppg just from FTs.

Really, we wouldn't be having jerry west as the logo but a statue of durant shooting a free throw.

Kobe averaged 30 7 6 with 2.2 spg for a season in the handcheck era, his stats didn't really improve that much apart from the 2005-06 season. I mean, the rule changes definitely helped perimeter players as the rule changes were made primarily to boost the scoring average, Kobe, Lebron & AI had huge boosts in ppg in 06, though the rules were changed in the 2004-05 season.

But I think in today's league, teams have adapted to the rule changes & it's hardly a factor now.

[quote]Tex Winter said: “Players today can get to the basket individually much easier.”[/quote]

[quote]Asked if he could defend Jordan under today’s interpretation of the rules, Joe Dumars first laughed, “It would have been virtually impossible to defend Michael Jordan based on the way the game’s being called right now.”[/quote]

[quote]Ron Artest claimed that if he defended Jordan in his prime, that Michael Jordan “would drop 50 on me”.

Ron Artest on Jordan in 2001 comeback – “If I didn’t break his ribs, he was going average 30 and win the scoring title”
Bruce Bowen said the toughest player he ever had to defend was Michael Jordan.[/quote]

[quote]Tim Grover, who has trained Kobe, Lebron, and Jordan, was asked who would win a 1-on-1 battle of Jordan vs. either of the other two:

Tim Grover: “Oh, Michael. No question. From a physical and mental standpoint, he’s the best I’ve ever seen. If he were playing now, with the way the refs call everything, and with all the padding these guys wear, he’d average 40 or 50 a night if he wanted.”[/quote]

Yeah. Coaches, GMs, and trainers, TODAY, are just being "nostalgic". My God, I love owning you idiots.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Yeah, JJ was just being nostalgic. What does an NBA player TODAY know? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you if removed hand-checking in a league where zone defense was already illegal, yeah, some players would be even better. Duh. :hammerhead:

If you make zones illegal right now, guys like Durant will average 40PPG.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Yeah, JJ was just being nostalgic. What does an NBA player TODAY know? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Yes but you can play zone now where as you couldn't before. it evens out

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Yeah. Coaches, GMs, and trainers, TODAY, are just being "nostalgic". My God, I love owning you idiots.[/QUOTE]

Average 50 a night? :lol :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=RoundMoundOfReb]Yes but you can play zone now where as you couldn't before. it evens out[/QUOTE]

Zone is trash. Not even a full-functioning zone with the 3 second rule.

Not to mention, it's barely run sans the college game.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Yeah. Coaches, GMs, and trainers, TODAY, are just being "nostalgic". My God, I love owning you idiots.[/QUOTE]

Jordan was unstoppable in his day too, and could have gotten 50 any game he wanted to.. he didnt because it is basically impossible to average 50 ppg and win anything because there are heavy diminishing returns on your teammates if you use up that many possesions.

gdamn you're being a dumbass.. it was phil who taught Jordan the importance of building team chemistry and balance to win, and you think Jordan is going to toss up a ton of shots every single game to average 50..

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Yeah, JJ was just being nostalgic. What does an NBA player TODAY know? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

they apparently don't understand that zone D's such as mavs 2011 can be much more effective in stopping superstar perimeter scorers than physical man 2 man D.

you can also add the pistons vs kobe in 2004.

really the league had several defensive revolutions since jordan played.

1. introduction of zone, 3s lane calls (O and D)
2. thibodeau's ice/no middle and other small defensive schemas against pnrs/pnps
3. hybrid rushing zones for smallball (what miami is playing when engaged)

no wonder players are more team-oriented today than in 1998 for example.

Probably a coach is better at explaining this but it is obvious that basketball plays very different now than 15 years ago.

Clyde Drexler: For guys who penetrate these days, it’s hunting season. Yes, now you can play (floating)zone(legally), but teams rarely do.”

ISH nerds >>>> basketball legends, amirite?

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Clyde Drexler: For guys who penetrate these days, it’s hunting season. Yes, now you can play (floating)zone(legally), but teams rarely do.”

ISH nerds >>>> Basketball legends, amirite?[/QUOTE]

Some senile old guys trying to stay relevant, trying to kid themseleves basketball was far superior in the old days :lol :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Clyde Drexler: For guys who penetrate these days, it

[QUOTE=tpols]Jordan was unstoppable in his day too, and could have gotten 50 any game he wanted to.. he didnt because it is basically impossible to average 50 ppg and win anything because there are heavy diminishing returns on your teammates if you use up that many possesions.

gdamn you're being a dumbass.. it was phil who taught Jordan the importance of building team chemistry and balance to win, and you think Jordan is going to toss up a ton of shots every single game to average 50..[/QUOTE]

Actually, it was Dean Smith. Jordan just didn't have a TEAM around him prior to Phil becoming the head-coach.

Wouldnt expect you to know that, I mean, you were still swimming in your daddy's sack....

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Clyde Drexler: For guys who penetrate these days, it’s hunting season. Yes, now you can play (floating)zone(legally), but teams rarely do.”

ISH nerds >>>> basketball legends, amirite?[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mRyqA91H1M[/url]

Are you?

There are 21 players scoring over 20 PPG this season. Did some quick research on the number of players who scored that much between '91 and '96.
'91 - 26
'92 - 24
'93 - 21
'94 - 18
'95 - 24
'96 - 21

I guess Michael Adams, Tony Campbell, Ricky Pierce, Latrell Spreewell, Cedric Ceballos, Juwan freaking Howard, etc. can all score in the '90's, but somehow todays players can't. Why?

Oscar Robertson said Lebron's better than Jordan. God, I love owning these idiots.

Herp derp :cletus:

[QUOTE=HoopsFanNumero1]Oscar Robertson said Lebron's better than Jordan. God, I love owning these idiots.

Herp derp :cletus:[/QUOTE]
even phil jackson said it.
but who is phil jackson doe?
and what the hell does he know about jordan:roll: :roll: :roll:

[quote]Stu Jackson: No. The scoring increase was not our goal. [B]Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots — having more time to shoot — they tend to make more of them.[/B]

Stu Jackson: It doesn’t. [B]With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.[/B] Additionally, teams now realize the 3-point shot is a great competitive equalizer, so they are taking more; they have improved their skill level on threes and are making them at a higher rate.[/quote]

Yeah, the VP of basketball was just being "nostalgic".

Class' in session, boys. :oldlol:

League Average eFG%

'80s: .491
'90s: .488
'00s: .484

League Average PPG

'80s: 109.3
'90s: 101.0
'00s: 96.9

% of Points from the Freethrow line

'80s: 20.3
'90s: 19.8
'00s: 19.5

/thread

[QUOTE=Quickening]League Average eFG%

'80s: .491
'90s: .488
'00s: .484

League Average PPG

'80s: 109.3
'90s: 101.0
'00s: 96.9

% of Points from the Freethrow line

'80s: 20.3
'90s: 19.8
'00s: 19.5

/thread[/QUOTE]
Wrong. You need quotes from trainers and coaches without sources to prove your point.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Clyde Drexler: For guys who penetrate these days, it

[QUOTE=Quickening]League Average eFG%

'80s: .491
'90s: .488
'00s: .484

League Average PPG

'80s: 109.3
'90s: 101.0
'00s: 96.9

% of Points from the Freethrow line

'80s: 20.3
'90s: 19.8
'00s: 19.5

/thread[/QUOTE]

But Bill Lambier doe

[QUOTE=madmax]nobody was allowed to touch "His Airness" either my dear fellow...if you don't know that, you probably didn't watch him play live either. I did:cheers:[/QUOTE]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2v0LOhjsJs"]Jordan Rules[/URL]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wLW2UwkcG4"]Team that adopted the Jordan Rules[/URL]

Lebron in the 2010s (Post Decision): 7.8 FTA on 18.3 FGA/GM
Durant in the 2010s: 8.8 FTA on 19.3 FGA/GM
Jordan '90-first retirement: 7.9 FTA on 23.7 FGA/GM

Jordan was taking over 5 more shots per game than Lebron but getting the same amount of free throws. He took over 4 more than Durant but was getting 1 less FTA on average. All this during a more physical era. So if Jordan was 'untouchable' what does that make those guys? :confusedshrug:

And for all the talk about bigger, stronger players... how is it that a guy who couldn't do a single rep of 185 on the bench press working on his [I]fourth[/I] scorin title? :lol

Agree 100% with the OP...

Lol. Get outta here with that "Jordan COULD have averaged 50 if he wanted to". It wasn't for lack of trying. Dude wasn't opposed to chucking at all.


Jordan's highest scoring season, he averaged 37 points on 28 FGA and 12 FTA. His eFG% was only 48.4% and his TS% was only 56.2%.

Is that really any better than when Kobe averaged 35PPG on 27 FGA and 10 FTA? 49.1-eFG and 55.9-TS


Jordan mythologists LOVE to claim Kobe is nowhere near JOrdan, but it's a lot closer than you would like to admit.

[QUOTE=Quickening]League Average eFG%

'80s: .491
'90s: .488
'00s: .484
[/QUOTE]

You do realize that from the 80s to the 00s, that's a grand total difference of 0.7%? That's what is known as 'negligible'. This despite the fact that 3s were not featured in offenses much during the 80s and much of the 90s. In fact:

[B][U]League Average (3s attempted/gm)[/U][/B]
1988: 5
1998: 12.7
2008: 18.1

So players are taking FAR more low % 3s now, but only shooting 0.4-0.7% less overall... and that means defense has gotten [I]better[/I]? :biggums:



[QUOTE]League Average PPG

'80s: 109.3
'90s: 101.0
'00s: 96.9[/QUOTE]

Pace bro.

[QUOTE]% of Points from the Freethrow line

'80s: 20.3
'90s: 19.8
'00s: 19.5

/thread[/QUOTE]

So again, a grand total difference of about 0.8

Any idea what the %s are for perimeter players as opposed to big men (even though a 'big man' like Kevin Love is as likely to shoot 3s as a PG :lol )

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]You do realize that from the 80s to the 00s, that's a grand total difference of 0.7%? That's what is known as 'negligible'. This despite the fact that 3s were not featured in offenses much during the 80s and much of the 90s. In fact:

[B][U]League Average (3s attempted/gm)[/U][/B]
1988: 5
1998: 12.7
2008: 18.1

So players are taking FAR more low % 3s now, but only shooting 0.4-0.7% less overall... and that means defense has gotten [I]better[/I]? :biggums:





Pace bro.



So again, a grand total difference of about 0.8

Any idea what the %s are for perimeter players as opposed to big men (even though a 'big man' like Kevin Love is as likely to shoot 3s as a PG :lol )[/QUOTE]

Terrible rebuttal, not worth my time, /thread :pimp:

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]You do realize that from the 80s to the 00s, that's a grand total difference of 0.7%? That's what is known as 'negligible'. This despite the fact that 3s were not featured in offenses much during the 80s and much of the 90s. In fact:

[B][U]League Average (3s attempted/gm)[/U][/B]
1988: 5
1998: 12.7
2008: 18.1

So players are taking FAR more low % 3s now, but only shooting 0.4-0.7% less overall... and that means defense has gotten [I]better[/I]? :biggums:





Pace bro.



So again, a grand total difference of about 0.8

Any idea what the %s are for perimeter players as opposed to big men (even though a 'big man' like Kevin Love is as likely to shoot 3s as a PG :lol )[/QUOTE]
Slower pace + roughly same efficiency = takes longer to get a good shot.

Why would it take longer for an offense to get off a good shot? WORSE defense apparently.:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]You do realize that from the 80s to the 00s, that's a grand total difference of 0.7%? That's what is known as 'negligible'. This despite the fact that 3s were not featured in offenses much during the 80s and much of the 90s. In fact:

[B][U]League Average (3s attempted/gm)[/U][/B]
1988: 5
1998: 12.7
2008: 18.1

So players are taking FAR more low % 3s now, but only shooting 0.4-0.7% less overall... and that means defense has gotten [I]better[/I]? :biggums: [/QUOTE]

He posted efg% which takes 3 pointers into account.



[QUOTE]Pace bro.[/QUOTE]
Drtg is lower (better) now than in the 90s as well

[QUOTE=Quickening]Have you see the size of Lebron compared to Jordan...[/QUOTE]

About the same difference between Lebron and Kobe. See what happened when Kobe handchecked LeBron in a full court press:

[url]http://youtu.be/6XxsN8jITds?t=39s[/url]

LeBron has never shown the ability to perform when the game gets even a little physical. Bruce Bowen put it on him in '07. Hell, can't seem to do much when you lay off him and dare him to shoot mid range jumpers. :lol

A guy with no/poor mid range game isn't too hard to game plan for and frustrate as Pop has shown on multiple occasions. Having the ability to slow him down physically (as shown by a broken down Bean) also helps tremendously.