[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Not possible. There have to be other pieces involved for salary to match.[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't be that hard actually.
Wiggins, Haywood, and all those unguaranteed contracts would be enough I think.
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[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Not possible. There have to be other pieces involved for salary to match.[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't be that hard actually.
Wiggins, Haywood, and all those unguaranteed contracts would be enough I think.
Minnesota definitely has the leverage because there are other teams that want Love...
Cavs are going to have to gut the roster if they want him...
I still don't see the Cavs rolling the dice on Wiggins with Love sitting there.
They saw just how badly a #1 pick's stock can plummet last year...not sure if they do it again with Lebron coming in trying to win yesterday.
I say you trade him and don't look back. Lebron + Love + Kyrie...run with it. If Wiggins pans out...cool. But the Cavs can build around that core just fine without Wiggins.
[QUOTE=RoundMoundOfReb]not really...anthony davis was a better prospect[/QUOTE]
Debatable, either way your video or point you were trying to make wasnt relevant to this situation.
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]Debatable, either way your video or point you were trying to make wasnt relevant to this situation.[/QUOTE]
probably more relevant than your rookie lebron for dirk analogy
No point in keeping Bennett if you get Love. He's getting basically zero minutes behind LeBron. Wiggins is a great match for LeBron.
That said, if the Cavs get Dieng, holy shit.. I love the kid, think he's the perfect match up front for Love.
[QUOTE=RoundMoundOfReb]would Wiggins+Fillers from Utah work?[/QUOTE]
Love's contract is $15.7 million.
Wiggins just signed a deal starting at $5.5 million. The players we received for Utah amount to about $3.3 million.
Still not there.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]It wouldn't be that hard actually.
Wiggins, Haywood, and all those unguaranteed contracts would be enough I think.[/QUOTE]
Haywood is a potentially important piece for us, though. You're talking essentially an $11 million trade exception next year. If we move him, it's no longer just "Wiggins and filler for Love."
For a team over the cap, having a contract to move like Haywood's could be huge.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Love's contract is $15.7 million.
Wiggins just signed a deal starting at $5.5 million. The players we received for Utah amount to about $3.3 million.
Still not there.[/QUOTE]
The Cavs would have to get to roughly 11 million in order to make it work.
You include Haywood's 2 million and one more contract and I think you are there.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]Haywood is a potentially important piece for us, though. You're talking essentially an $11 million trade exception next year. If we move him, it's no longer just "Wiggins and filler for Love."[/QUOTE]
Oh I agree....but I was talking about a way to keep Bennett for you guys.
[QUOTE]It's the other shit that makes me want to throw up. Wasting valuable cap on Martin. Losing the Haywood contract. Not getting back Dieng. Including a first rounder....or potentially two in order to get Barea to a 3rd team. Losing future pick and assets to get unguaranteed money.
It's all that other stuff that is the problem.[/QUOTE]
There isnt a chance in hell anyone cares about any of that in 6 months. Total so what background details for obsessive internet types to make a big deal out of while having little to no negative impact on a basketball team.
Martin....a 19ppg mid to late prime scorer for 6.8 million...
Makes you a better team.
Jj....a 4.5 million dollar expiring deal?
Total so what. Take him or dont. Take him and move him...its what expiring deals are for.
#27 picks? 29? you get like....2 borderline all stars every 5 years at those spots.
It just doesnt matter.
Not as far as basketball playing or missing out on additions.
Faried + Chandler + picks or whatever it takes without giving up Lawson/Gallo/AA for Love. Wait 30 days and trade Love to Cleveland for Wiggins and whatever to make the salaries match.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/EuMkXEz.gif[/IMG]
The idea that we should just give away Bennett because we have Love is ridiculous, btw. You can't have enough good players. If the Cavs believe in Bennett's potential the way I do, having both he and Love is a great luxury. Hell, I could argue it will be even better for AB's growth to have the kind of player he should be shooting to become right here in Cleveland, on the roster.
Bennett is still just 21.
I seriously don't see why Minnesota is rejecting any offer for Love when he's a valuable asset now. Once Love becomes an free agent, Minnesota aint getting sh*t for him
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]There isnt a chance in hell anyone cares about any of that in 6 months. Total so what background details for obsessive internet types to make a big deal out of while having little to no negative impact on a basketball team.
Martin....a 19ppg mid to late prime scorer for 6.8 million...
Makes you a better team.
Jj....a 4.5 million dollar expiring deal?
Total so what. Take him or dont. Take him and move him...its what expiring deals are for.
#27 picks? 29? you get like....2 borderline all stars every 5 years at those spots.
It just doesnt matter.
Not as far as basketball playing or missing out on additions.[/QUOTE]
Yea...you just don't get team building.
You'd wake up with Martin capping you and being forced to sign vet minimum centers...assuming Andy can still play at a high level and isn't injured...
And you'd have no way in fixing the defense.
Irving - shit defender
Waiters - minus defender
Martin - shit defender
Love - average at best
Thompson - minus defender
Miller - minus defender
Allen - minus defender
Delladova - average
You'd be relying on aging Lebron and old Andy who's often injured.
That team likely won't win because of the defense.
It is for basketball reasons. That is what you keep ignoring. You think it's about air or something. No...you don't make those moves because you run out of chances to improve the defense.
Even with the huge cap increases that are coming...Waiters is due for a new deal after the next 2 years. Thompson is due for a new deal after this season. Love is due for his max. Lebron wants his true max and will wait until the tv deal likely.
That money is going to dry up and giving up all your picks and flexibility...while giving up the last 2 number 1 draft picks for Love is just dumb.
[QUOTE=imnew09]I seriously don't see why Minnesota is rejecting any offer for Love when he's a valuable asset now. Once Love becomes an free agent, Minnesota aint getting sh*t for him[/QUOTE]
You should check what year it is.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]There isnt a chance in hell anyone cares about any of that in 6 months. Total so what background details for obsessive internet types to make a big deal out of while having little to no negative impact on a basketball team.
Martin....a 19ppg mid to late prime scorer for 6.8 million...
Makes you a better team.
Jj....a 4.5 million dollar expiring deal?
Total so what. Take him or dont. Take him and move him...its what expiring deals are for.
[B]#27 picks? 29?[/B] you get like....2 borderline all stars every 5 years at those spots.
It just doesnt matter.
Not as far as basketball playing or missing out on additions.[/QUOTE]
Where are you getting Nos. 27 & 29 picks? And, team-building is about more than just All-Stars. The Spurs showed you that in very clinical fashion a couple months ago. How soon we forget.
I think a lot of people are under the impression that Cavs fans shouldn't care about what happens with this franchise beyond the next three years. I care. Sorry.
Everyone realizes that training camp doesn't open for about 60 days right? So this "30 day waiting period" means nothing right? They'll just wait 30 days to make a trade official...
OK, just checking....
apparently they have to wait 60 days in order to use the utah fillers
[QUOTE=RoundMoundOfReb]apparently they have to wait 60 days in order to use the utah fillers[/QUOTE]
That is if we're over the cap. There is some disagreement on that matter.
Sam Amico @SamAmicoFSO 4m
Continue to hear, despite Andrew Wiggins' name likely coming up in talks, Cavs have not offered him in any trade proposal.
Holding out hope... :confusedshrug:
just don't see that trade happening. Who is going to play perimeter defense besides Lebron? Who's going to protect the rim? Kyrie, Lebron, and Love with vets and scrubs is a playoff team if none of them get hurt, but you sure not about win a championship with one person that can play defense. This past Heat team would kill them even with a crippled Wade.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]That is if we're over the cap. There is some disagreement on that matter.
Sam Amico @SamAmicoFSO 4m
Continue to hear, despite Andrew Wiggins' name likely coming up in talks, Cavs have not offered him in any trade proposal.
Holding out hope... :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
i don't think your hope is misplaced.
[QUOTE=NattyPButter]just don't see that trade happening. Who is going to play perimeter defense besides Lebron? Who's going to protect the rim? Kyrie, Lebron, and Love with vets and scrubs is a playoff team if none of them get hurt, but you sure not about win a championship with one person that can play defense. This past Heat team would kill them even with a crippled Wade.[/QUOTE]
This is why all the other stuff really matters.
For starters, the Cavs should be getting back Dieng if they give up Wiggins and Bennett here. It would be kind of absurd not to given the needs of their team...and especially if they take Martin as well.
The key here is for the Cavs not to give up all their picks and flexibility going forward so they can build out that defense you rightly address.
[QUOTE=imnew09]I seriously don't see why Minnesota is rejecting any offer for Love when he's a valuable asset now. Once Love becomes an free agent, Minnesota aint getting sh*t for him[/QUOTE]
The thought process has changed in the league... If you can move the player fine but if it means taking back contracts you don't want then you don't pull the trigger on the deal...
Bad contracts even if they are expiring are too hard to get rid of now days, you're better off letting a player walk, letting that money come off the cap and filling your roster with guys you actually want.
Memo to Cavs fans: Love's not coming.
[QUOTE=smoovegittar]Memo to Cavs fans: Love's not coming.[/QUOTE]
Cool.
[QUOTE=smoovegittar]Memo to Cavs fans: Love's not coming.[/QUOTE]
Memo to the rest of the NBA fans:
We just had Wiggins and Lebron fall into our lap. Nothing could detract from this offseason.
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]The idea that we should just give away Bennett because we have Love is ridiculous, btw. You can't have enough good players. If the Cavs believe in Bennett's potential the way I do, having both he and Love is a great luxury. Hell, I could argue it will be even better for AB's growth to have the kind of player he should be shooting to become right here in Cleveland, on the roster.
Bennett is still just 21.[/QUOTE]
One ball. Bennett won't become the player he can and Cleveland can't maximize his talents when you have Kevin Love, Irving, LeBron, Waiters if he sticks around or Thompson. His potential is he comes off the bench and chips in 12 points a night for the next 3-4 years which is great. Certainly not something you refuse to include. Even if he has All-Star talent he'll always be getting the ball 4th or later on that team.
I wouldn't give him away but including him wouldn't make or break anything. I'd probably rather have a defensive guy or a shooter in place of him right now.
I'm personally tired of the Love talk. At this point, I hope nothing happens and we get to see how this team looks together.
Varejao
Thompson/Bennett
LeBron/Miller
Waiters/Wiggins
Irving/Delly
...is not a bad team.
[QUOTE=smoovegittar]Memo to Cavs fans: Love's not coming.[/QUOTE]
Don't want him
[QUOTE=Meticode]I'm personally tired of the Love talk. At this point, I hope nothing happens and we get to see how this team looks together.
Varejao
Thompson/Bennett
LeBron/Miller
Waiters/Wiggins
Irving/Delly
...is not a bad team.[/QUOTE]
it's actually a good team.
I think our second rounder is going to get a lot more burn than Carrick got last season too. Joe can flat out shoot the ball.
[QUOTE=Meticode]I'm personally tired of the Love talk. At this point, I hope nothing happens and we get to see how this team looks together.
Varejao
Thompson/Bennett
LeBron/Miller
Waiters/Wiggins
Irving/Delly
...is not a bad team.[/QUOTE]
Of course it's not a bad team.
But it just doesn't make a lot of sense to keep all those young guys.
They should make a move...they shouldn't just make a bad one. They should move Waiters or Wiggins....trying to develop them both while also trying to develop Bennett...while trying to compete for titles is stupid.
[QUOTE=smoovegittar]Memo to Cavs fans: Love's not coming.[/QUOTE]
At this point, this is what I'm hoping for. LeBron on this team is more talent than he ever had in Cleveland previously.
I'd i just want the cavs to maneuver for a capable defensive center.
[QUOTE=DukeDelonte13]Memo to the rest of the NBA fans:
We just had Wiggins and Lebron fall into our lap. Nothing could detract from this offseason.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Happy for fans... want to see LeBron LEAD by example.
[QUOTE=DukeDelonte13]Memo to the rest of the NBA fans:
[B]We just had Wiggins and Lebron fall into our lap. Nothing could detract from this offseason.[/B][/QUOTE]
Well... at least nothing [I][B]yet[/B][/I].
[QUOTE=DukeDelonte13]I'd i just want the cavs to maneuver for a capable defensive center.[/QUOTE]
And Dieng is that guy.
It's perfect for both teams.
The Wolves badly want Martin included. The Cavs should badly want Dieng.
Not hard...put them both in and it's a fair deal.
Wiggins/Bennett/filler/pick for Love/Martin/Dieng
You get that young defensive center the Cavs badly need, you get a tolerable contract in Martin that helps in a bench role behind Waiters, the Cavs keep cap flexibility and picks as well.
Wolves get the best haul, by far, any team has gotten in a situation like this.
^^^You seem incredibly high on Dieng. I haven't exactly studied him all that closely. I know he had a great 15-game run while Pek went down, but he also averaged just 13 minutes per game last season.
I'm still a bit skeptical that he's enough to turn a horrendous trade for the Cavs into a good one.
So 30 more days of hearing either Chicago or Cleveland getting Love talk??
Wonder if those two extra days matter between Wiggins signing and McDermott/Mirotic
[QUOTE=RedBlackAttack]^^^You seem incredibly high on Dieng. I haven't exactly studied him all that closely. I know he had a great 15-game run while Pek went down, but he also averaged just 13 minutes per game last season.
I'm still a bit skeptical that he's enough to turn a horrendous trade for the Cavs into a good one.[/QUOTE]
Yea...I'm extremely high on him for not only his play, but what he offers at his price.
You won't find that in this league.
Also, in my trade...it wouldn't be horrendous even if you really like Wiggins/Bennett like you do.
Because you'd only be giving up 1 pick and wouldn't be facilitating the Barea contract movement either.
You'd still have 2 first rounders this coming season...which, contrary to popular belief, really matter via building from within or for trade purposes.