Phil Jackson on Scottie Pippen's as a leader

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]this thread is about pippen's leadership via phil jackson, yet jordan fans are making it about....jordan.[/QUOTE]

We are on page 3 and all MJ stans have offered is anger and attacks on Pippen. Not one Mike fan has made an intelligent comment on Pippen's leadership role in Chicago (he did the same things in Portland btw).

These people go around repeatedly saying Pippen was not a leader--juju said it just yesterday. So someone decides to do some homework on the issues, comes back with evidence and these clowns are outraged by it. This goes to LeBird's point. This is almost like a religion to them.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]:applause: :applause: :applause:

Exactly. Which is why MJ being the clear GOAT and the mythology is so important to them. If MJ loses that status, their world collapses. :oldlol: Hence their non-stop attacks on LeBron. Hopefully LeBron can get it done and we wouldn't have to deal with so many MJ stans in 5 years. These are the same people who got :mad: when they read that MJ's dick was smaller than Pippen's and proceeding to argue MJ was still huge even if smaller than Pippen. :roll:

It is interesting MJ fans are not disputing the substance in the OP. Those are straight from Phil Jackson himself. MJ stans are not even discussing the subject at hand.
Instead of giving credit to Pippen for how his leadership helped the team win they are bringing up 1.8 seconds and throwing various other tantrums.



:bowdown:[/QUOTE]


Lebron ain't getting shit done bro...that ship has sailed. Thanks for finally getting back to your real hero...the whole Pippen act is really sad

Notice that no MJ stan disputes what Jackson said...

[QUOTE]Lebron ain't getting shit done bro...that ship has sailed. Thanks for finally getting back to your real hero...the whole Pippen act is really sad[/QUOTE]

Really? Is that why I was critical of LeBron--rooted against him--in 2011, and 2012? Go back and read threads from that period. I was accused by MJ stans of being a closet Kobe stan; now it is a LeBron stan?

It is comical how MJ stans fail to grasp that a player like Pippen had/has a large fan base. All they understand is selling sneakers and ESPN hype.

[QUOTE=Calabis]:facepalm

Sad, sad, sad

If u did ur homework...maybe u would notice this troll making numerous anti jordan bait threads...his new act is spreading Pippen as the leader of the Bulls now. He has been in numerous posts just the last two days with this act....this was a discussion in yesterday's Pippen lead the Bulls past round 1 thread....I guess he wasn't satisfied with it being a part of that thread and decided today I will start a independent thread about Scottie leadership.

Similar to DJ with ur hero....let me guess DJ was the real leader not Bird.[/QUOTE]

The irony is I've done my homework and the posters on your side of the fence are the ones with the agenda. R_R can't 'make' Pippen anything. All he's done is post quotes from notable people around that time. If you have a problem, go tell Phil Jackson.

:lol can you imagine it though? Some Internet poster harassing Phil Jackson to not make statements about Pippen being the leader because they know it was Jordan. When will you nutters ever grow up? :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=LeBird]

:lol can you imagine it though? Some Internet poster harassing Phil Jackson to not make statements about Pippen being the leader because they know it was Jordan. When will you nutters ever grow up? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

bwahahaha. phil would probably have his bodyguards choke these clowns out :oldlol:

[QUOTE=LeBird]:lol can you imagine it though? Some Internet poster harassing Phil Jackson to not make statements about Pippen being the leader because they know it was Jordan. When will you nutters ever grow up? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Man, I hope the Knicks get some extra security at MSG because you never know with these stans.

[QUOTE]R_R can't 'make' Pippen anything. All he's done is post quotes from notable people around that time. If you have a problem, go tell Phil Jackson.[/QUOTE]

Exactly--and it is telling all they are doing is throwing a big temper tantrum. None of them are actually disputing what Jackson said. So if they know it is true why are they getting their Bugs Bunny panties in a wad?

Pippen was a leader in Chicago. He was a leader in Portland. What is the problem?

Pippen was probably best at analyzing Jordan from his action and the way he lead. And because of that, he was able to analyze and interpret them for the other teammates and help them understand what Jordan needed.

This concept could even applied to Bill Russell to a certain extense probably. His ability to analyze opponents, instead of just his teammates, consistently help give his team an edge, while Red Auerbach coached the team to help support them in everything else from strategy/emotional support etc.

This doesn't prove a lot. Phil Jackson is smartass and naturally prefers to take the opposite of the general opinion.

[QUOTE=04mzwach]This doesn't prove a lot. Phil Jackson is smartass and naturally prefers to take the opposite of the general opinion.[/QUOTE]

Why is general opinion relevant? There were only a handful of people who were on the team. What does general opinion know about what goes on in the locker room, in the huddle, what is said on the court, in practice, etc. Moreover, note the Rosen comments. Those are obviously from private conversations with his friend Jackson. There is no conspiracy here.

I do agree, though, that there are limits into how much you can read into one data source, even if it is the greatest source possible in that case. This is why I will later post quotes from Pippen's teammates and other reporters who covered him. The thing is what people say about Pippen in Chicago is what they also say about him in Portland. Is it all one giant conspiracy or was Pippen just a natural leader?

This is why I love reading books about the inner workings of various presidential administrations. There is a lot on the inside that the public does not know, both in terms of substance and internal dynamics among staff.

[QUOTE=LeBird]The thread is about Pippen and the Jordan revolutionary guard are here with their batons. If you couldn't criticise Jordan before, now know that you can't even praise one of his teammates.

Honestly, these posters are sick in the head - they're not trolling, this is how they think. It's like they've tied their own personal self-esteem to the Jordan brand and take it as a personal insult if anything in any way, shape or form detracts from it - even if that is just their own loony projection and not really intended.[/QUOTE]

OP is a notorious Lebron stan who masquerades as a Bulls fan to prop up Pippen and seem impartial in his efforts to diminish Jordan. He's posted this exact message 10+ times already in various threads. That's why most people aren't taking this seriously. Personally I have no interest in discussing Pippen with someone who obviously has no interest whatsoever in Pippen and is just using him as a means to further his Lebron agenda.

Anyone who's done any research on this subject already knows full well that Pippen and Jordan were both great leaders on that team. Pippen was the guy that most of the younger guys went to for leadership or advice, Jordan was the guy who set the championship tone and pushed everyone in practice to get better.

Jordan was great, probably the greatest. He didn't win 6 straight titles though, the Bulls did.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]OP is a notorious Lebron stan who masquerades as a Bulls fan to prop up Pippen and seem impartial in his efforts to diminish Jordan. He's posted this exact message 10+ times already in various threads. That's why most people aren't taking this seriously. Personally I have no interest in discussing Pippen with someone who obviously has no interest whatsoever in Pippen and is just using him as a means to further his Lebron agenda.

Anyone who's done any research on this subject already knows full well that Pippen and Jordan were both great leaders on that team. Pippen was the guy that most of the younger guys went to for leadership or advice, Jordan was the guy who set the championship tone and pushed everyone in practice to get better.[/QUOTE]

:applause:

But don't mind Lebird, good poster, but he is known to ride in the back pockets of these exact type of posters.

It is funny, MJ stans were ripping Pippen's leadership just yesterday and now are mad when evidence to refute them has been presented.

[QUOTE]OP is a notorious Lebron stan[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] 06-14-2009, 06:52 PM #151
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Default Re: You can make a case that LeBron's 2009 Playoff run was Jordanesque!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
This. He has had two golden opportunities to live up to the hype and failed both times. Do you think any real top 10 player would lose with a 66 win team? Dirk doing it is one thing but the alleged future GOAT Lebron???
Show me a 66 win team that couldn't beat the Lakers in the regular season and was basically owned by the Magic in the regular season. Show me a 66 win team with a worse supporting cast. Show me a 66 win team that has everyone but the best player lower their level of play in the playoffs.

Mo Williams, his "sidekick" went straight into the tank in the playoffs, this is common knowledge to anyone who actually watched the games, but Roundball Rock somehow has found a way to blame LeBron.


You are a certifiable idiot.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]06-14-2009, 06:54 PM #153
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Default Re: You can make a case that LeBron's 2009 Playoff run was Jordanesque!
Hey Roundball Rock, you might want to turn over a new leaf and become a real basketball fan instead of a Scottie Pippen/Kobe Bryant apostle....

LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers fell six wins short of their ultimate goal but that should not obscure the fact that James put together one of the greatest individual performances in playoff history. He became the only player to ever average at least 35 ppg, 7 apg and 7 rpg for an entire playoff season; James final numbers in 14 playoff games were 35.3 ppg, 9.1 rpg and 7.3 apg while shooting .510 from the field, .333 from three point range and .749 from the free throw line. There have only been four other 30-7-7 playoff seasons in NBA/ABA playoff history:[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135543&page=11[/url]

[QUOTE] 06-13-2011, 05:11 PM #13
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Default Re: Steve Kerr says LeBron James is Scottie Pippen, not Michael Jordan
Quote:

Originally Posted by Soothing Layup
MJ never scored less then 23 ppg in the finals, pippen was there strictly for his defense/passing. everyone on that bulls team knew their place, and their role. Not the same with this heat team..

Pippen scored over 20 ppg in 4 of his 6 NBA finals and was above 20 ppg in a fifth finals before he injured his back.

Kerr is right in terms of preferred playing style. The two big differences are Lebron is more talented but Pippen had heart. Pippen always gave it 100% in the NBA finals--see Game 1 of the 97' finals as a good example.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226938[/url]

Do you want to me to post my posts in Bulls game threads?

Owning MJ stans is so easy. :pimp:

[QUOTE] Jordan was the guy who set the championship tone and pushed everyone in practice to get better[/QUOTE]

Yeah--it was Jordan AND Pippen who did that. I'll show that when I post his teammates' comments.

[QUOTE=LeBird]The thread is about Pippen and the Jordan revolutionary guard are here with their batons. If you couldn't criticise Jordan before, now know that you can't even praise one of his teammates.

Honestly, these posters are sick in the head - they're not trolling, this is how they think. It's like they've tied their own personal self-esteem to the Jordan brand and take it as a personal insult if anything in any way, shape or form detracts from it - even if that is just their own loony projection and not really intended.[/QUOTE]

Also, there are real Pippen fans on this forum(Smoke117, Da_Realist, 97 Bulls) that had they posted this thread, you'd be seeing more legitimate responses.

More LeBron stanning from me here: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146752[/url]

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock] Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 3.67 average.
Old 09-14-2009, 10:37 PM #1
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Default Perception is reality? Lebron vs. Dirk in the playoffs
Dirk is perceived by many as as a playoff choker but let's compare his playoff record to the man we are all "witnesses to" who is considered to be a good/great playoff performer.

At the outset it has to be stated that, despite the Dirk being a former MVP and a consistent top 5 player, Lebron is the superior player. Therefore it is not surprising his stats are better. What you have to look at is how much each player raises his game during the playoffs.

Dirk in the regular season: 23/9/3 47%/87%/38%
Dirk in the playoffs: 26/11/3 45%/88%/37%
Difference: +3 ppg, +2 rpg, = apg -2% FG, +1 FT, -1 3pt

Dirk raises his game substantially in scoring and rebounding and his shooting decline is insignificant given the fact that defenses are tougher in the playoffs.

Lebron in the regular season: 28/7/7 47%/74%/33%
Lebron in the playoffs: 29/8/7 45%/74%/30%
Difference: +1 ppg, +1 rpg, =apg -2% FG, =FT, -3% 3pt

Lebron improves as well, but not nearly as much as Dirk.

Note: I rounded all numbers. Dirk's regular season ppg is 22.4, his playoff ppg 25.5. Lebron's regular season average is 27.5, in the playoffs he averages 29.4. Dirk still improves more than Lebron in scoring.

In the NBA finals

Dirk: 23/11/3 39% FG, 25% 3's, 89% FT
Lebron: 22/7/7 36% FG, 20% 3's, 69% FT

Both players are the only superstars in NBA history to lead 65+ win teams and never win a ring (Dave Cowens also lost with a 65+ win team but won a ring during his career).

Given the above facts how can one be condemned as a choker and not the other? One is a demigod we are all "witnesses" to while the other is a choker even though his finals numbers are better and he raises his game more in the playoffs vis-a-vis his regular season production?

Last edited by Roundball_Rock : 09-14-2009 at 11:07 PM.[/QUOTE]

Why are MJ stans so dumb?

Pippen is an all-time great and I have no doubts about his leadership abilities and the impact he had on the Bulls' dynasty. However, an obvious agenda is obvious.

[QUOTE=GrapeApe]Pippen is an all-time great and I have no doubts about his leadership abilities and the impact he had on the Bulls' dynasty. However, an obvious agenda is obvious.[/QUOTE]

Was it obvious when MJ stans were saying Pippen was not a leader just yesterday? :lol

[QUOTE]Anyone who's done any research on this subject already knows full well that Pippen and Jordan were both great leaders on that team. Pippen was the guy that most of the younger guys went to for leadership or advice,[B] Jordan was the guy who set the championship tone and pushed everyone in practice to get better.[/B][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bill Wennington]As for Pippen’s leadership, he became a team captain for the first time in his career and [B]regularly worked with all players, most notably during practice. Wennington said those kinds of actions went a long way, especially with the team’s reserves.[/B]

“He was very helpful and never derogatory,” recalled Wennington. “I was a new guy. I wasn’t even supposed to be on the team. But [B]he was willing to help me out in practice when we were learning plays or working on the best way to cover a guy. He was able to talk to me without giving the impression like I was below him. He really wanted me to succeed and do well because that made him better.”[/B]

[B]Speaking of practice, Wennington said that was where Pippen made his mark, along with Jordan, of course. Both players came in each and every day and gave the same level of effort that you would see on a game night.[/B] It was that kind of consistency that allowed them to be great and lead in the way they did.

“Scottie wanted to win basketball games and he understood that the harder you work in practice, the easier the games are for you,” said Wennington. “He really put his heart and soul into practice and left it all out on the floor.[B] When you have guys of that talent level who are working that hard, it makes practice fun. You have to compete. There were no off days in practice.”[/B]
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Ask any former Chicago Bulls teammate of Scottie Pippen, [B]right down to the man whose NBA career he nearly destroyed before it started in Toni Kukoc, and they'll tell you that he was unequivocally their favorite teammate. Pippen's mix of all-around brilliance on both sides of the ball, coupled with his calm and steady on-court and practice court demeanor, make him the ideal leader.[/B] [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=B.J. Armstrong][B]Where Pippen really made his mark was practice, Armstrong said, where he and Jordan set a standard in which teammates had no choice but to follow.[/B]

“As good as he was in games—and he was terrific—he was that much better in practice,” recalled Armstrong.[B] “He and Michael were the best practice players I’ve ever seen. [/B]I have no idea why they loved it so much or what their reasoning was, but they enjoyed practice. Scottie never complained about practice; he always showed up with that smile on his face. He was a great practice player and the ultimate professional in that regard.”

“If your best players are taking a shortcut, they’re going to have problems holding everyone else accountable and responsible. [B]B[/B][B]oth Michael and Scottie were very accountable and responsible young men to their team, the franchise and themselves. They took their jobs very seriously and that made everyone else hold themselves accountable.”[/B]
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bill Wennington]"He was accountable for his actions on the floor," Wennington said. "Usually, other players get blamed for stars' mistakes. Scottie wasn't like that. He worked hard at practice every day, even if he was banged up."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]
This is why I love reading books about the inner workings of various presidential administrations. There is a lot on the inside that the public does not know, both in terms of substance and internal dynamics among staff.[/QUOTE]

I generally fall into the fallacy that when I look at something bad, I think, well, that's so obvious. But when I look at something good, I know for certain that I can't replicate that success with the same formula

I think Scottie Pippen is severely underrated as a contributor to the Bulls 6 rings.

[QUOTE=Dragic4Life]I think Scottie Pippen is severely underrated as a contributor to the Bulls 6 rings.[/QUOTE]

I actually agree with you for once. :cheers:

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]snip[/QUOTE]

None of what you just quoted in any contradicts with what I said, in fact it was exactly what I said.

As a Pippen fan I find all of this very refreshing to read. It also makes me feel less dumb for thinking Pippen was the best player before I was old enough to fully grasp basketball.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]None of what you just quoted in any contradicts with what I said, in fact it was exactly what I said.[/QUOTE]

Man up. I exposed your "LeBron stan" theory. I was critical of LeBron at various points in previous years, especially in 2010-2012 post-Decision. MJ stans then accused me of being a Kobe stan. So I was a closet LeBron stan the whole time, was also a closet Kobe stan while watching random Bulls games to maintain a secret spy cover as a faux Pippen fan? :roll: MJ stans simply, as a group, unable to grasp Pippen actually had/has fans.

[B]No, you attempted to give MJ all the credit for practice while Bulls' players note both players had an equally important practice role. [/B]

[QUOTE]Anyone who's done any research on this subject already knows full well that Pippen and Jordan were both great leaders on that team. Pippen was the guy that most of the younger guys went to for leadership or advice, [B]Jordan was [U][I][COLOR="Red"]the[/COLOR][/I][/U] guy who set the championship tone and pushed everyone in practice to get better.[/B][/QUOTE]


[QUOTE]I think Scottie Pippen is severely underrated as a contributor to the Bulls 6 rings.[/QUOTE]

:cheers:

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Man up. I exposed your "LeBron stan" theory. I was critical of LeBron at various points in previous years, especially in 2010-2012 post-Decision.
[/QUOTE]

Huh?

[QUOTE]MJ stans then accused me of being a Kobe stan. So I was a closet LeBron stan the whole time, was also a closet Kobe stan while watching random Bulls games to maintain a secret spy cover as a faux Pippen fan? :roll: MJ stans simply, as a group, unable to grasp Pippen actually had/has fans.[/QUOTE]

I really don't care what you are or aren't, as I don't really keep up with the trolls on this board, I've just taken notice to the topics you've been commenting on recently. Apologies if I've misread you, but you should really talk about something else from time to time.

[QUOTE]No, you attempted to give MJ all the credit for practice[/QUOTE]

I did no such thing. Your mind may work in absolutes, but the rest of the world doesn't. All I said was Jordan set the tone and pushed the team to their limits in practice, something he's notorious for. From what I've read Pippen was a very hard worker and very vocal in practice, I think it's big reason why Jordan liked him so much - Kerr was the same way.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]OP is a notorious Lebron stan who masquerades as a Bulls fan to prop up Pippen and seem impartial in his efforts to diminish Jordan. He's posted this exact message 10+ times already in various threads. That's why most people aren't taking this seriously. Personally I have no interest in discussing Pippen with someone who obviously has no interest whatsoever in Pippen and is just using him as a means to further his Lebron agenda.

Anyone who's done any research on this subject already knows full well that Pippen and Jordan were both great leaders on that team. Pippen was the guy that most of the younger guys went to for leadership or advice, Jordan was the guy who set the championship tone and pushed everyone in practice to get better.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I don't particularly care about bias. Everyone has bias. If I cared about bias, I'd lump you in the same group as the other stans for your consistent pushing of Russell.

Ultimately, it comes to being able to argue the case in an intelligible way. If you have a problem with what he is posting (like, he's lying) then retort. I've never seen him exaggerate the truth, misrepresent it any kind of way or even get into foul-mouthed slanging matches.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]Also, there are real Pippen fans on this forum(Smoke117, Da_Realist, 97 Bulls) that had they posted this thread, you'd be seeing more legitimate responses.[/QUOTE]

So they rally against the tide because of the poster and not what is being posted. That tells you all you need to know about the intelligence of these posters. It also shows there's nothing inherently wrong with what he is posting.

Fortunately, I've read enough posts from all these posters to know exactly why they're butt-hurt he's even made this point. The narrative is that Jordan was playing with scrubs and if they weren't scrubs Jordan [I]made[/I] them ballers. This thread just poops on that point - as if it needed to for anyone with half a brain.

[QUOTE=PJR][url]http://youtu.be/bYcjCoy7R4I[/url]

Dat leadership![/QUOTE]

Scottie was a mental midget of the highest (or lowest) order and this was just a continuation of that. His 'migraines' potentially cost Chicago another championship. And as the above proved, he was not made to be the alpha dog and was not above pouting like a petulant child and endangering the team if he didn't get his way (he did the same in Houston).

Of course players will like his style of leadership more- he was like the grandmother whose shoulder they could cry on and bake them cookies when their father berated them for being f*ck ups. Some people don't respond well to being challenged and pushed to their limits, they'd rather be coddled by a mother hen.

But then when the chips are down and guys are looking for someone to close the show and all they have is the mother hen sitting at the end of the bench crying because she didn't get her way... well...

I don't care if MJ stans dislike me. Of course they won't. I've been routinely exposing them for 5 years. What I take offense to is the "fake Pippen fan" attacks. They have accused me of being a faux Pippen fan my entire time here (well, other than my first 2 months or so when I was pro-Mike). For YEARS they said I was a closet Kobe stan. YEARS. They said I was Fatal9. Now, in 2014, the same clowns are saying I am a closet LeBron stan and Pauk. :roll:

[QUOTE]All I said was Jordan set the tone and pushed the team to their limits in practice, something he's notorious for. [/QUOTE]

Yeah MJ was an important leader. He and Cartwright are why the thread title says "A leader" not "THE leader" because there were multiple leaders on Chicago--like there are on most teams.

[QUOTE]Apologies if I've misread you, but you should really talk about something else from time to time.[/QUOTE]

I've posted several threads on Rose, Shaq and various other topics over the years. I also am often in Bulls threads (MJ stans have never identified which TEAM I root for if it isn't Chicago :oldlol: ).

Good cop / Bad cop ... Is this anything news worthy?

[QUOTE=Mr Exlax]As a Pippen fan I find all of this very refreshing to read. It also makes me feel less dumb for thinking Pippen was the best player before I was old enough to fully grasp basketball.[/QUOTE]

I like these stories too, they really further your appreciation for the kind of man he was as a teammate. Dude laid it all out there for his team and teammates. He basically transformed himself into the player his team needed him to be. Who knows if we ever saw the true Scottie Pippen.

[QUOTE=LeBird]
Fortunately, I've read enough posts from all these posters to know exactly why they're butt-hurt he's even made this point. The narrative is that Jordan was playing with scrubs and if they weren't scrubs Jordan [I]made[/I] them ballers. This thread just poops on that point - as if it needed to for anyone with half a brain.[/QUOTE]

My point was that there's a reason only Jordan stans are responding. I think a lot of his posts about Pippen are spot on, his reputation kinda ruins most people's will to get involved though.

"Scottie chose to not go on the court last night for his own specific reason."

A "leader" that asks out of the most crucial time of a playoff game?

:kobe:

This campaign to put Pippen on some pedestal and tear Jordan down is ridiculous. Especially considering it's coming from so called "Bulls fans". Pippen was a great player in his own way, but he's not on the same level as Jordan and other players in the "best of all time" discussion.

[QUOTE=LeBird]Fortunately, I've read enough posts from all these posters to know exactly why they're butt-hurt he's even made this point. The narrative is that Jordan was playing with scrubs and if they weren't scrubs Jordan [I]made[/I] them ballers. This thread just poops on that point - as if it needed to for anyone with half a brain.[/QUOTE]

For years they have criticized Pippen's leadership. Just YESTERDAY several pro-MJ posters were doing the same. So I decided to finally collect evidence on the subject and share it with ISH. And they are :mad: about it. :pimp:

Think about it, what kind of psychos would go ballistic about a thread saying a guy who was a team captain was a leader on the team? He also was a leader in Portland. Last I checked, that had nothing to do with Mike. Mike also wasn't there in 1994 and most of 1995. Pippen was a natural leader (who also ran the team's offense and defense) and it was evident throughout his career. And these people can't bring themselves to give him any credit for it.

[QUOTE]
My point was that there's a reason only Jordan stans are responding. I think a lot of his posts about Pippen are spot on, his reputation kinda ruins most people's will to get involved though.[/QUOTE]

They do the same thing in every Pippen thread, irrespective of who the OP is. See [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196612[/url] I barely even posted on ISH in 2012 and 2013 and Scottie was still getting bashed by the same 6-8 Mike fans.

I can't believe the hostility lmao. The Jordan stans realy can't accept he isn't the GOAT at everything. Pippen was more of a leader to his teammates than Jordan. Deal with it.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]My point was that there's a reason only Jordan stans are responding. I think a lot of his posts about Pippen are spot on, his reputation kinda ruins most people's will to get involved though.[/QUOTE]

It's hard to get a discussion off the ground when the same group of stans are systematically trying to derail his threads. If they truly didn't care or thought he had an agenda, they'd just let his threads be and die if they're that uninteresting.

It's the threat that they're relevant, true and intelligent that causes them to try to attack him and kill the thread before it starts - before anyone actually gets to engage in the discussion and, you know, possibly give more credit to Pippen for those successes.

This thread has gone 5 pages and there's yet to be an intelligent reply from anyone disagreeing with the theme of the thread.

[QUOTE=LeBird]It's hard to get a discussion off the ground when the same group of stans are systematically trying to derail his threads. If they truly didn't care or thought he had an agenda, they'd just let his threads be and die if they're that uninteresting.

It's the threat that they're relevant, true and intelligent that causes them to try to attack him and kill the thread before it starts - before anyone actually gets to engage in the discussion and, you know, possibly give more credit to Pippen for those successes.

This thread has gone 5 pages and there's yet to be an intelligent reply from anyone disagreeing with the theme of the thread.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. MJ stans could have responded to this thread by:

1) Ignoring it. After all, it is trolling (even though I have 5 years and 5,000+ posts with zero suspensions or bans, unlike several MJ stans :oldlol: ).

2) Given Pippen props for how his leadership helped Chicago win during the MJ years.

3) Given Pippen props while also mentioning MJ's leadership.

Instead they became enraged at the data in the OP and proceeded to rip Pippen--with multiple posters bringing up his darkest moment. I notice DatAsh has not expressed any outrage about that.

This happens in every Pippen thread, even the ones posted by others. Whenever any poster says something pro-Pippen the same 6-8 MJ stans rapidly deploy to that thread to diminish him. Their overarching agenda is not to acknowledge that Pippen was instrumental in the Bulls winning. This is why I shifted to being anti-MJ. Any idiot who searches my posts when I first joined ISH would see I was a MJ advocate at the time.

Great point. 5 pages and no one has disputed what was said. They can't because what was posted is true.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]

MJ had an insane usage rate in the playoffs--easily the highest in history. Of course he would get assists when he had the ball so much. [/QUOTE]

Pippen had the ball in his hands more in terms of clock time than Jordan did. Usage rate only measures FGA + TO. So of course a guy who takes more shots is going to have a higher usage rate. Doesn't mean that he had the ball in his hands any more than another player did.

Jordan's USG rate was higher than Lebron's, yet Lebron has the ball in his hands WAY more than Jordan ever did.

christ op, you are so bad. go outside - summer is almost over.

[QUOTE=Optimus Prime]"Scottie chose to not go on the court last night for his own specific reason."

A "leader" that asks out of the most crucial time of a playoff game?

:kobe:

This campaign to put Pippen on some pedestal and tear Jordan down is ridiculous. Especially considering it's coming from so called "Bulls fans". Pippen was a great player in his own way, but he's not on the same level as Jordan and other players in the "best of all time" discussion.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, rep to all of this ...

Pulled himself from a game. Could you imagine MJ, Bird, Magic, Isiah, or Kobe doing this? Bron has pulled himself due to cramps but at least that's painful.

Scottie was a leader, but Michael Jordan was the leader of the Bulls. Your best player almost has to be your leader. Jackson describes Willis Reed as the "unquestioned leader" of the Knicks and then goes on to talk about Bill Bradley as a leader or when Red Holzman came to him and tried to make him be more of a leader.

Same thing with Jordan and Pippen.

I don't have as much as you, but here are some more thoughts from Phil on leadership and the Bulls...


"Michael didn't really want to be the team leader but his inspirational play thrust him into that capacity. Scottie and Bill Cartwright were the unsung leaders, talking privately to the players, helping them accept their roles."

"Though at times he could be hard on his teammates, Michael was masterful at controlling the emotional climate of the team with the power of his presence"

"When things were going bad off the court the players turned often to Scottie, who was well liked by all. But when things were going bad on the court, they always looked to Michael. He was our leader even if he didn't always want to be, because he had to be."

Jackson has often said there should be as many leaders as possible on a team, I think that's what the Pippen stuff is. Jackson takes a lot of pride in Pippen's growth as a player, feels responsible for it to a degree and has a sense of "paternal pride" as he's said before.

[QUOTE=diamenz]christ op, you are so bad. go outside - summer is almost over.[/QUOTE]
Co sign ... Dude has been way to.active on the boards with his not subtle MJ smear campaign