Printable View
5 more rings in Cleveland, with at least one three peat.
Not anyone can be goat. People don't realize but Luck plays a MAJOR factor in it.
Michael Jordan was the perfect storm.
-Goat level natural talent
-Goat level motivation and competitiveness
and in terms of luck
-Goat level coaches in college and nba
-and for all the flak Krause got, great front office.
LeBron had a legit shot at GOAT status. Pretty rare. He messed it up tho, I'm not a hater/fan but that Mavericks series was bad. That along with him not putting up a fight vs S.A with Cleveland is a bad smudge to have. Fine if you want to be a top 10 player, can't be GOAT with that tho. He's just been underwhelming at timesvs his talent/MJ. We've seen what he can do, therefore at certain times in his career while he's played good enough to be a top 10 player he's came up short enough not to be GOAT.
He'll dominate statistically, with MVP's, accolades and will finish as the 2nd-7th best player of All-Time depending on how things finish up. To be the GOAT, he'll unrealistically need 4 or more rings, more MVP's, more FMVP's.
His longevity is key. I have a feeling he might be Magic lite at 35/36. Like 14-15 points, career high in assists etc. if he's still winning rings at that point than he has an outside chance. He needs to go above and beyond to be the GOAT post 30. Doubt it happens, but with his durability he has an outside shot. How he ages will determine alot.
Once he becomes the NBA's all time leader in PER (Player Efficiency Rating) by surpassing MJ this year, imo he will become GOAT
[QUOTE=dubeta]Once he becomes the NBA's all time leader in PER (Player Efficiency Rating) by surpassing MJ this year, imo he will become GOAT[/QUOTE]
So by this logic Robinson, CP3, Wade, & Neil Johnston are all top 10 players
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]So by this logic Robinson, CP3, Wade, & Neil Johnston are all top 10 players[/QUOTE]
I dont know about Neil Johnston but the rest of them probably have top ten worthy peaks.
PER is an arbitrary stat so nobody should use it in that manner. Dubeta is just doing what does best. Troll.
[QUOTE=navy]I dont know about Neil Johnston but the rest of them probably have top ten worthy peaks.
PER is an arbitrary stat so nobody should use it in that manner. [B]Dubeta is just doing what does best. Troll[/B].[/QUOTE]
Actually I think he does it pretty poorly.
[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]Win.
From here through the rest of his prime, if he wins the Championship every year his team is a legit contender, he'll have a damn good claim. On a physical level, his combined athleticism, versatility, size and skill are the greatest I think we've ever seen.
4 MVP's before 30 is significant, 2 Finals MVP's and a reign as the leagues best player that seems unlikely to be fully overtaken anytime soon. The guy is good, uniquely durable too, which can lead to great even faster.
The knock on LeBron thus far is that he doesn't consistently elevate himself and his teammates in the most crucial moments/games/series.
Being swept in 2007, losing in 2011 and 2014 when they were favored...that's not on the resume of other number 6 and number 23's
But that being said, without him his team isn't in that situation and guys like Wilt (2-4), West (1-7), Kareem (6-5), Magic (5-4), Bird (3-2), Moses (1-2), Oscar (1-1) lost more often, as often or almost as often in the finals as they won. LeBron at 2-3 is a victim of his own success to those who would criticize his mark.[/QUOTE]
Only one thing to add: They weren't favored in 2014... Only 2011, and he f'cked up.
[QUOTE=Prometheus]Actually I think he does it pretty poorly.[/QUOTE]
True but it's the only thing he does. :oldlol:
stop Team hopping and recruiting.. SMH
Considering the current GOAT won two different 3-peats, he's got a long row to hoe still.
Plus there's all the quitting when things got tough. Quit in playoffs. Bail on Cleveland. Quit in Finals. Bail on Miami.
Can you imagine MJ, or even someone like Larry Legend, ever quitting on their team when things looked bad? Those kinds of guys would rather cut their own throats than give up even when all looked lost. LeQuit can't ever measure up to their competitive spirit alone. He's not even in the top ranks of spirit, much less being GOAT.
Lol @ people claiming one ring in Cleveland is somehow special. It's still just one ring to anyone outside of Ohio. It's in context to how stacked his team is (likely very much) and how good the competition was. It's still just one ring to anyone not an irrational LeQuit homer.
Then there's all the assorted douchebaggery. The dancing. The whining. The crab-dribbling. The Decision. "Not one, not two, not three... ", "It's gun be easy...", The "I'm Coming Home" schtick. The ridiculous amount of ref help he's received. And the flopping... Good god the flopping. It's shameful someone with so much talent constantly flopping like a bitch. The guy can't even play the game straight up. He's got to cheese it all the time. It cheapens the game. This guy compares to MJ? :roll:
Like I said, the dude has a looooooooooooong row to hoe to even crack the top rank of greats, much less be considered for GOAT by anyone outside his drooling, circle-jerking stans.
win more than 24 rings coz ring chasers ring is only valued 1 pt compared to 4 pts for 1st option
That ship sailed long ago. :banana:
[QUOTE=navy]Pretty much. 5-6 rings wont put him above MJ to most, but some will say it does. I'd put him around 4-5th. Maybe 2-3 if the Kareem longevity is there.
7-8 rings and 7-8 FMVPs/MVPs though? Pedo will commit suicide trying to jump through hoops trying to explain how even with the failures he still won more. :oldlol: He will be the GOAT if he manages that, although realistically it is impossible.[/QUOTE]
too bad the reality is he cant even win while having the best teammate of any GOAT
[QUOTE=knickswoman]too bad the reality is he cant even win while having the best teammate of any GOAT[/QUOTE]
Magic and Kareem
Kobe and Shaq
Off topic:
Was you username always Knickswoman or is this an alt?
Can anyone name me any of the GOATs that won rings with a head coach as unproven and marginal as Erik Spoelstra?
He's a video coordinator dressed up as a head coach
I'm waiting...
[QUOTE=Partizan]Hey!
Didn't post here in a while, but last couple of days I've been thinking about something...
Is there any chance that LeBron will be accepted by basketball fans as the GOAT when it all set and done? By accepted I mean basically being what is Jordan right now. ( Considered the GOAT by most of objective bball fans).
For me, I don't really see it happening, but if he would for example, win something like 5 championships with the Cavaliers in a dominant fashion, without 2011 finals like moments, with all the MVPs he is gonna get, I guess he could be considered for a GOAT?
Do you agree? What do you personally think it would take for him to get to that level, and do you find it possible? :)[/QUOTE]
Build a time machine and erase his Betaness in huge moments.
[QUOTE=dubeta]Can anyone name me any of the GOATs that won rings with a head coach as unproven and marginal as Erik Spoelstra?
He's a video coordinator dressed up as a head coach
I'm waiting...[/QUOTE]
Inb4 kobe
He would have to surpass Jordan's accomplishments while doing it at a similar level of play
[QUOTE=Lebronxrings]if he wins a ring with cleveland he is.[/QUOTE]
1 ring = #2 all time lock
2 rings = 1b
3 rings = clear cut #1
Multiple rings with different franchises as top dog is an exceptionally rare achievement in the NBA.
If he gets at least 2 to match his Miami 2, that'll be pretty friggin incredible.
win 2-3 more championships. he's already got the stats (highest PER in postseason history) and accolades (4 MVPs). dude just needs more chips.
1 ring in cleveland would catapult him into top 3 range. easily.
Where you win a ring does not matter if you form a super team all at once with almost an entirely new team in one season.
Lebron, Love, Miller... If Durant, Griffin, and Davis all go to Charlotte to form a super team one year, does that make them the GOAT's because they won a title for some shit team? No.
Numbers matter. Catch Jordan in titles, and maybe, MAYBE, we can start to talk about GOAT. Fact is, Jordan still has 6 titles in 15 seasons if you count the two seasons he played in Washington. Lebron has 2 in 11. Maybe Lebron wins 4 in a row, who knows?
Had MJ not breezed through his career and played baseball then retired 8 times nobody would ever catch his numbers, and Lebron would never be able to mentioned in the same conversation as him. Luckily for LBJ, Jordan took several years off.
he have to win 10 more rings.
[QUOTE=Leftimage]Multiple rings with different franchises as top dog is an exceptionally rare achievement in the NBA. [/QUOTE]
Actually, I don't think it's ever happened. Has it?
Score 81 points in a game, dropped 63 points in 3 quarter while outscoring the western champs team, average 35ppg in a season, etc. if he dont then he will never be GOAT..
[QUOTE=KOBE143]Score 81 points in a game, dropped 63 points in 3 quarter while outscoring the western champs team, average 35ppg in a season, etc. if he dont then he will never be GOAT..[/QUOTE]
The criteria was to be GOAT not some sidekick :no:
[QUOTE=dubeta]The criteria was to be GOAT not some sidekick :no:[/QUOTE]
LeBron best was 61, he cant even score more than my niguh Melo:oldlol:
[QUOTE=dubeta]The criteria was to be GOAT not some sidekick :no:[/QUOTE]
GOAT sidekick was already achieved by someone, you know who? LeSidekick 2011 not only GOAT sidekick but also GOAT choker.. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
[QUOTE=navy]Magic and Kareem
Kobe and Shaq
Off topic:
Was you username always Knickswoman or is this an alt?[/QUOTE]
kareem is past his prime and having bosh/wade is better than shaq.
Retire.
[QUOTE=knickswoman]kareem is past his prime and [B]having bosh/wade is better than shaq[/B].
[B][SIZE="2"]having bosh/wade is better than shaq[/SIZE][/B]
[B][SIZE="3"]having bosh/wade is better than shaq
[/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"]having bosh/wade is better than shaq
[/SIZE]
[SIZE="5"]having bosh/wade is better than shaq
[/SIZE]
[SIZE="6"]having bosh/wade is better than shaq
[/SIZE]
[SIZE="7"]having bosh/wade is better than shaq[/SIZE][/B]
[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tpo1egj.png[/IMG]
Lebron will never be GOAT. That ship sailed. Even if the Cavs get KLove they ain't winning more than 2 rings at best.
I believe this ship sailed a long time ago, no matter what he does in the future
[QUOTE=fpliii]Actually, [B]I don't think it's ever happened. [/B]Has it?[/QUOTE]
The guy in your avatar disagrees. :ohwell:
EDIT: Somehow missed "multiple." I need to go to bed.
[QUOTE=PickernRoller]Lebron will never be GOAT. That ship sailed. Even if the Cavs get KLove they ain't winning more than 2 rings at best.[/QUOTE]
2 more rings is enough to be consensus top 2 all time fool :facepalm
If he gets 3 more with 3 fmvps's not even these kobetards can deny that bran is 1a/1b as GOAT
Bran needs a hot tub time machine to go back to 2007 and start over fresh. There's NOTHING he can do to catch up to, let alone surpass, MJ.
Oh, and there's a whole bunch of legends already ahead of him on the All-Time list that he's yet to pass.
It's interesting how most of non completely biased people here, agree that he needs either something really spectacular or simply doesn't have a chance. It's kinda sad because whatever you like him or not he did have GOAT potential.
And thinking of what would he need to do, just makes me appreciate Jordan's legacy more...
That ship sailed in 2007, is unfair? perhaps, but that is how it works
Probably lost that chance in 2011, but he had a chance for 8 years while he was in the league, the absolute majority of the players that enter the league know they won't be GOAT from the first summer league game they play.
It takes elite talent(once in a generation for your position), great work ethic and a lot of luck in terms of landing in a good spot right away or being drafted by a great organization that you can trust with building a contending team around you very soon.
If you look at players that came in the league after Jordan just on potential you can come up with a very short list of guys who had the talent to be GOAT one day.
Some of them landed in a bad spot(KG), didn't have the drive(VC), were great but still came up short(Duncan,Kobe and Shaq to some extent), some played at a level that would warrant being called the GOAT, but didn't sustain it for long enough(T-MAC).
Lebron is likely going to end up higher on the all-time list than all the guys I just named, but he won't be GOAT or at least consensus GOAT, the margin for error is so small if you want to surpass MJ who certainly has the accomplishments and is being hailed by the press all the time.
Only thing that can dethrone MJ is time and a supreme talent, but how long will that take, I don't know.
[QUOTE=navy]Pretty much. 5-6 rings wont put him above MJ to most, but some will say it does. I'd put him around 4-5th. Maybe 2-3 if the Kareem longevity is there.
7-8 rings and 7-8 FMVPs/MVPs though? Pedo will commit suicide trying to jump through hoops trying to explain how even with the failures he still won more. :oldlol: He will be the GOAT if he manages that, although realistically it is impossible.[/QUOTE]
He will likely tie MJ/Russell in MVP's next year--at age 30. He has an excellent chance at retiring with the most MVP's. The big question is how many rings he has. I think he needs to get to 4 at minimum and ideally 5.
:oldlol: it would be hilarious to see MJ fans react if LeBron gets into the GOAT conversation.
Look at these scenarios:
KAJ: 6 rings, 6 MVP's
MJ: 6 rings, 5 MVP's
Russell: 11 rings, 5 MVP's
Wilt: 2 rings, 4 MVP's
LeBron: 4 rings, 6 MVP's
LeBron: 5 rings, 7 MVP's
LeBron: 6 rings, 7 MVP's
LeBron: 4 rings, 7 MVP's
Unless LeBron finishes with 3 rings and 5 MVP's he will be right up there with the "Big 4." Even 3 rings and 5 MVP's would put him in 5th ahead of Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe and Hakeem. It would just relegate him to leading the second group versus joining the first group. LeBron has a chance for having great longevity as well, which would separate him from his peers too, other than KAJ.
People who are citing isolated cases, i.e. the 11' Finals are being unrealistic. That is not how history works. No one is defined by their worst; you are judged by your best. Look at how the warts have been all but forgotten regarding the resumes of other legends, in whatever sport. No one has a perfect record. LeBron is nit-picked, as are others to a lesser extent, because he is a current player. Over time that will fade. He put up 18/7/7 in the Finals. People have won FMVP with those type of numbers, i.e. Leonard with 18/6/2 just this year. He underperformed but every player has done that at some point in the Finals or another major series like the conference finals. There inevitably will be bad points during the course of a lengthy career.
[QUOTE]That ship sailed in 2007, is unfair? perhaps, but that is how it works[/QUOTE]
Why? Because he lost in the Finals? MJ was losing in the first round at that age. KAJ missed the playoffs in his prime. Wilt was on a 33 win team in his prime. Yet making the Finals is this indelible blot?