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Why do people feel the need to reiterate this all the time
Only the fools still think lbj is better than Jordan, let them be fools
Why don't we just enjoy lebrons game
Sure he isn't the greatest of all
Time, but c'mon are we really gonna shit on a guy cause he isn't the greatest
Foolish thinking
[QUOTE=Lebron23]This is a a troll thread, but Pippen should have been an all star in 1991.[/QUOTE]
Shoulda-coulda-woulda. He wasn't. So your LeBron stan brothers can drop the "all-time stacked" talked. Don't take it up with me take it up with them.
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]another article detailing specific reasons why lebron, when its all said and done, will be greater.
*On Monday night, in game four of the NBA Eastern Conference Finals, LeBron James broke Michael Jordan's playoff record for most games with at least 25 points, five rebounds, and five assists. It was another milestone for the Miami Heat superstar. As the Heat get ready to try to close out the series in Indiana tonight, it's time to admit that James has now taken Jordan's place as the greatest of all time. But you will never hear the former-players-turned-commentators admit it.
Guys like Steve Kerr (who recently left TV to coach Golden State), Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Shaquille O'Neal will never give LeBron the crown. Former coaches can see greatness right off the bat. It's something you can't teach. Ex-players have a tendency of hating on the new stars who take their place. Sure, Barkley and friends will always have praise for LeBron, but they will never say he is the GOAT. They all played in the Jordan era and are endorsed by Michael. They wouldn't say anything to make him mad.
Like Jordan, LeBron quickly realized he wouldn't win championships with teammates who couldn't knock down shots when he passed them the ball. That's why he's in Miami and won't return to Cleveland. LeBron has surpassed Jordan in every facet of the game, though. Jordan had to learn to pass the ball, but finding the open man is part of LeBron's instinct since he was winning championships at the high school level. Every dunk Jordan did, LeBron can do better. He can cover five positions on the court, even center. Jordan couldn't do that.
It's been 11 years since Jordan played a game. Every new NBA fan since then doesn't know anything about Jordan except his old highlights on YouTube. They are tuning in to watch LeBron rule the NBA.
Off the court, LeBron is a better teammate than Jordan was. Michael would never have visited a teammate having a poor series to cheer him up like LeBron (along with Dwyane Wade) did with Chris Bosh. Jordan was always flying out to the casinos or wherever he hung out on his own. When the Chicago Bulls came down to play Miami during the Jordan era, all the players would come to my nightclub. The only one who didn't show up was Michael.
However, you will not see any commentators who played at the same time as Jordan say LeBron is the best ever. Jordan never faced the criticism and opinions of ex-players like LeBron has either. Jordan never had to worry about someone like Barkley saying Wilt Chamberlain was the best because he's the only player to score 100 points in one game. Hell, Barkley is the biggest hypocrite. He says LeBron should go back to Cleveland, yet Barkley bounced around teams like a groupie chasing a ring throughout his career.
It's time these hall-of-fame pundits acknowledge LeBron's place in history.
very well written :applause:[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
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[B][SIZE="3"]Jordan Pull-Up Jumpshots on Rodman
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[QUOTE=DJ Leon Smith]Shoulda-coulda-woulda. He wasn't. So your LeBron stan brothers can drop the "all-time stacked" talked. Don't take it up with me take it up with them.[/QUOTE]
You and the Op needs to get a room, and go F*ck yourselves.
[img]http://media0.giphy.com/media/2IsUUBEO7q704/giphy.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Lebron23]You and the Op needs to get a room, and go F*ck yourselves.
[img]http://media0.giphy.com/media/2IsUUBEO7q704/giphy.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
You need some rest and relaxation.
[IMG]http://oi58.tinypic.com/n46rgh.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=DJ Leon Smith]You need some rest and relaxation.
[IMG]http://oi58.tinypic.com/n46rgh.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Nah, I am just messing with you. OP is a troll. Jeff already banned his primary account.
[QUOTE=3ball]In 21 out of the 24 years since 1991, the team leader in shot attempts (#1 option) on the Finals-winning team took more than 25.56% of the team's shots - which means that the load Lebron took on in 2014 Finals (25.56% of his team's shots) was not a large load, and the notion that he couldn't have done more, or that no one else would've done more, is wrong - [i]21 out of the last 24 did more[/i].
The data shows that it's reasonable to ask Lebron to take more shots - [I]because it WAS feasible[/I] - and since it was feasible and his team needed it, he should be blamed for not providing it.
The Heat needed it because they had the worst offense of any Spurs opponent - and even though the media ignores this fact, the Heat's offense hurt them as much as their defense.
The strengths of each team's offense affects the game's momentum (confidence, optimism, energy, adrenaline, etc.)... The Heat's bad offense and inability to answer the Spurs buckets contributed to the Spurs' momentum and the way the games progressed as much as bad defense... The Heat's defense had a harder job due to their bad offense that couldn't limit the Spurs momentum.
A more consistent effort throughout the games from Lebron would have made the difference in limiting the Spurs momentum - the only games the Heat had a chance to win were Games 1 and 2, where he was either on pace for, or actually got 35 points on 22 shots exactly - all coming when it mattered.
So people don't really know what they are talking about when they say it wouldn't have mattered if Lebron had shot more (like he did in Games 1 and 2)... Dallas, OKC and Portland all had better offenses that could limit Spurs momentum to make it easier on their defense, and consequently, they all did better vs the Spurs than the Heat.
[b]But despite it being both feasible (4th smallest load in 24 years) and necessary (the Heat had the worst offense which hurt them as much as bad defense)), Lebron opted to continue his high efficiency, low-shot-attempt style like a fat cat on Wallstreet, hoarding his FG% and low-risk load like profits during an economic meltdown - [/b]but this approach failed to disrupt the Spurs defense or attract sufficient defensive attention to free up his teammates.
So I'll ask again - since when does a guy that didn't pass (turnovers equaled his assists) or play defense (blew his assignment on the Finals MVP) or take on a large load (4th smallest in 24 years) - so he basically just GOT HIS in a blowout loss - get to walk away without any blame?.. only when it makes monetary sense to keep up the MJ comparisons.[/QUOTE]
Goddam dude, you just went ham. Bran stans shook:oldlol:
I loved the bolded part :applause:
And I totally agree with your premise, LeBron, as the best offensive Heat player, needed to be much more aggressive and try to assert his will like a certain GOAT used to when his team needed him the most. By being more aggressive, LeBron would've gotten to the FT more, he would've put fouls on Leonard and other Spurs and he would've commaded more defensive attention, therefore opening better looks for his teammates. At the very least he should've tried but never really did. I was really disappointed in his Finals performance. Stats look nice but watching the games, he had minimal impact.
Obviously, Bran's beloved FG% would drop if he shot more and we can't have that :facepalm
[QUOTE=riseagainst]you only need 2/5 of those reasons to realize that MJ is better than lebron.[/QUOTE]
How do you have a red bar? Repped :cheers:
The Man, he never went "ham"
He's just stealing posts from other boards... Dude is probably a lil teen
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[SIZE="3"][B]Other Jordan FG's on Rodman[/B]
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[QUOTE=3ball]They are all my own posts that i'm "stealing".
Regarding the ring debate - 4 out of 5 of Lebron's Finals appearances are a result of getting career do-overs on two separate occasions where he hand-picked his new organization along with veteran all-pro teammates (if only every human could be so lucky in their careers to get do-overs like this).
The fact that Jordan didn't get to hand-pick his organization and supporting cast of all-stars is evident when you look at how much more he had to do by himself to win his championships:
1) MJ had to take a much larger proportion of his teams shots
2) He had to score 25% more points per 36 minutes in the playoffs (that's 25% more scoring every 3 quarters!!)
3) He had to score a whopping 10 more ppg in the Finals..
4) His usage had to be 20% higher on better efficiency Ortg (118 to 115)
5) His clutch play had to be goat.
Why did Jordan have to do so much more to win his championships(scoring, shot attempts, usage)?.... the only possible reason is that Jordan had less help... the numbers have to add up, and there is no way that Jordan had to do so much more for his rings but somehow had equal help.. 2+2 has to equal 4.
[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
B... b.... bu....bu... but.... but.... Pippen!!!
1) better offensive player
2) better defensive player
do I really need more than 2 out of 5?
Wow this thread really enlightened me :applause:
After some carefully consideration, and using some advanced stats, I revised my rankings
1. LeBron
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Shaq.
5. Jordan
Good job OP :cheers:
[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Good LAWD the ether. It's been awhile since I've seen an entire fan base slayed this badly. Blood everywhere. Decaptitated the LeStan Brigade.
Wowzers.
And honestly I've been saying that this entire time. Specifically regarding the 2014 Finals. It wasn't the Heat just playing poorly. LeBron failed to truly give it his all, or throw caution to the wind to remain actually competitive. Or dare to inspire his troops.
Since 2012, he has coasted, paddes his FG% low risk, probably due to his fear of failure. Survivor mode, instead of KILLER mode. It's visible within his character. And it's a flaw. Tremendous talent, totally a cowardly lion when it comes to having heart. When the chips are down, Bron folds.[/QUOTE]
Anything you say about LeBron is still >> Jordan's 1-9 :sleeping
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Jordan jumped way higher and had better explosion off vertical which was a big advantage in traffic... Kobe is pretty good of a vertical too - and both those guys had the physique that was conducive for scoring effectively in traffic, where their vertical ability was needed.
In contrast, Lebron is actually only okay off a vertical and his physique is not conducive for mitigating defenders in traffic... Here's Lebron off a drop-step (one-step vertical), where he gets stuffed on a game winning attempt and the Heat lost... He didn't have good explosion.
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Whereas, in the same spot, Jordan drop-steps with a lot more lift and explosion.
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Here's another one where they are both doing the exact same move that ends up with them jumping off two feet, and Jordan has quite a bit more lift.
Lebron going up weak off two feet after jumpstop.. can't dunk:
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Jordan in Exact Same Spot, Exact Same Move and Jumpstop, Goes up A Lot Stronger:
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It can't be scoring output like PPG, because Jordan leads that all-time (30.1 ppg regular season.. 33.6 in playoffs)
It can't be PER, because Jordan has the highest career PER ever for the regular season and playoffs.
It can't be Ortg, because Jordan's Usage/Ortg combo is the highest of all time (35% usage with 118 Ortg)
It can't be winshares, because Jordan leads everyone in that too as well as WS/48.
So i'm curious what advanced stats you were looking at.
[QUOTE=dubeta]Anything you say about LeBron is still >> Jordan's 1-9 :sleeping[/QUOTE]
You can tell your kids about Jordan 1-9 but 6/6 final. They will figure it out for you who's better.
[QUOTE=3ball]It can't be scoring output like PPG, because Jordan leads that all-time (30.1 ppg regular season.. 33.6 in playoffs)
It can't be PER, because Jordan has the highest career PER ever for the regular season and playoffs.
It can't be Ortg, because Jordan's Usage/Ortg combo is the highest of all time (35% usage with 118 Ortg)
It can't be winshares, because Jordan leads everyone in that too as well as WS/48.
So i'm curious what advanced stats you were looking at.[/QUOTE]
LeBron is bigger!!!
[QUOTE=TheMan]LeBron is bigger!!![/QUOTE]
Especially down there..
[QUOTE=ImKobe]1) better offensive player
2) better defensive player
do I really need more than 2 out of 5?[/QUOTE]
Stop making junior high kids that are too stupid to realize Jordan as GOAT feel insecure! Maybe they can make 6000 posts next year on their 3 alts apiece to make up for their sad lives.:lol
really only need 2/5 of those reasons to legitimize your point.
:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=3ball].
[b][b][b]Top 7 Reasons for Jordan Over Lebron[/b][/b][/b]:
[b]1)[/b] [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10456245&postcount=25][u]Jordan's stats are the best and they say he carried the largest offensive load ever[/u][/url]
[b]2)[/b] [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10454414&postcount=101][u]Jordan played better competition[/u][/url]
[b]3)[/b] [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10454505&postcount=104][u]Jordan played in eras that barely used the 3-point shot - all two-pointers is a tougher brand of basketball[/u][/url]
[b]4)[/b] [url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40451964#p40451964][u]Better hops off a vertical so he scored better in traffic[/u][/url]
[b]5)[/b] [url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40452998#p40452998][u]Not just quick for his size, but true guard quickness for greater mismatches vs. bigger defenders[/u][/url]
[b]6)[/b] Goat scoring ability allowed MJ to take on the largest load and attract maximum defensive attention to free up teammates, while Lebron [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441295&postcount=236][u]undertook too small a load in the 2014 Finals[/u][/url].
[b]7)[/b] Not only could Jordan take on the aforementioned maximum offensive load to attract maximum defensive attention and free up teammates, but his [url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40476428#p40476428][u]superior scoring versatility (including off-ball skill)[/u][/url] allowed him to take on that maximum load while scoring in whatever capacity allowed star teammates to play to their strengths (i.e. with Jordan off-ball, Pippen was free to be the more ball-dominant point-forward).
:pimp: The factors above enabled Jordan to control his own destiny better - [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10422919&postcount=9][u]translation: 6 for 6[/u][/url]:
[b]MJ TV:[/b]
[url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40750321#p40750321][u]Top 15 Hanging Jumpshots by MJ[/u][/url]
[url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40414797#p40414797][u]Top 15 MJ Dunks Over Multiple Contesting Defenders[/u][/url]
[url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=40382395#p40382395][u]Partial Collection of MJ Dunks Over All-Time Great Centers[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441991&postcount=40][u]Various MJ Two-Handed Posters Over Defenders (two-foot takeoffs)[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10422917&postcount=172][u]MJ Hangtime Shots Off A One-Step Vertical (Drop-Step)[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10451420&postcount=76][u]MJ Flight[/u][/url]
[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10273035&postcount=86][u]Random MJ Posters[/u][/url]
[color=white].[/color][/QUOTE]
1) E*A*S*Y to have good stats in watered down era of basketball
2) Saturation of nonathletic white 5'11 white euro players in jordans era =/= competition
3) 3>2. It's more points on the board. Another aspect of basketball current players have to take into account.
4) There was no traffic. Defense in jordans era was abysmal. Look at the highlights. It's like high school defense. 90's jordans era defense = current highschool defense.
5) What? He is quicker than bigger players? What is the point of this:hammerhead:
6) Watered down era vs current era....like comparing 6th grade basketball and NBA basketball players.
7) Pippen stats went up without jordan, nullifying your argument:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=mehyaM24][url]http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/343567-8-reasons-lebron-james-is-better-than-michael-jordan/[/url]
here's a great article dispelling the nonsense in the OP with [B]8 reasons[/B] why lebron is a better all around player than jordan
[B]1. Defensive Versatility[/B]
Jordan used his speed and athleticism to shut down opposing perimeter players and generate turnovers. But James is just as athletic and he is capable of dominating almost any opposing player from point guards to power forwards. He is even capable of playing against some centers on defense.
To illustrate the difference between Jordan and James, let
[QUOTE=hawke812]1) E*A*S*Y to have good stats in watered down era of basketball
2) Saturation of nonathletic white 5'11 white euro players in jordans era =/= competition
3) 3>2. It's more points on the board. Another aspect of basketball current players have to take into account.
4) There was no traffic. Defense in jordans era was abysmal. Look at the highlights. It's like high school defense. 90's jordans era defense = current highschool defense.
5) What? He is quicker than bigger players? What is the point of this:hammerhead:
6) Watered down era vs current era....like comparing 6th grade basketball and NBA basketball players.
7) Pippen stats went up without jordan, nullifying your argument:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
way better than lebron ever face :rockon:
[QUOTE=Paul George 24]james never 3 peat :banana:[/QUOTE]
2 chances to repeat. 1 in 2011 and 2nd one was in 2014. failed horribly. :oldlol:
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[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="3"]Austin Rivers + Spacing + Hands Off Defense = Superstar MVP vs. Spurs:[/SIZE][/COLOR]
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[B]AERIAL VIEW of A. Rivers + Spacing = superstar.. Of course, with bigs getting beat on the perimeter, there's no resistance at the rim - the ballhandler gets an in-stride layup with the big flailing from behind:[/B]
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In today's game, with paint-camping banned, bigs are forced to come out of the paint to flood and shade in the ballhandler's wheelhouse: the perimeter.
Defending guards on the perimeter is a massive disadvantage for bigs, but today's spacing and paint-camping ban necessitate it.. Otoh, in previous eras, there was no spacing and paint-camping was legal, so bigs didn't need to come out of the paint to shade on the perimeter - they could just wait right under the rim "with no time restriction", as stiplulated in [url=http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html][COLOR="Blue"]Rule 2b[/COLOR][/url] of the Illegal Defense Guidelines.
Shading was still used in previous eras [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358589&page=8][u]on screen roll[/u][/url] as well, but there was no spacing, so bigs [I]still had help[/I] after getting beat on the perimeter.. But more importantly, [i]in non-screen-roll situations, the option was there NOT to shade and just camp under the rim instead[/i] - this was the most-used and preferable option.. Today's defenders don't have this more optimal option.
I wake up every day hoping someone will tell me.MJ is the goat so I don't forget.
Everybody knows about mike. I don't see the need to knob slob him every single day considering you'll never see him play again.
[QUOTE=3ball]you had to be tougher back then.. no time for patting on the back or cumbaya
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Oh shit nobody talks or makes mean faces today! So tough!
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it's just another distinction between the two... one shows fear.. hesitation..
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the other doesn't...
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[QUOTE=Paul George 24]james never 3 peat :banana:[/QUOTE]
But James stuck around tried for the 4 peat.
MJ quit the league 2x with a chance to 4 peat.
[QUOTE=Beastmode88][B]2 chances to repeat. 1 in 2011[/B] and 2nd one was in 2014. [B]failed horribly.[/B] :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Yes you did.
How does one fail to repeat when they didn't win the title the year before??