[QUOTE=Asukal]and won only 2 scoring titles. :roll:[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter, he scored more points in his career, so clearly Malone > Jordan
Printable View
[QUOTE=Asukal]and won only 2 scoring titles. :roll:[/QUOTE]
Doesn't matter, he scored more points in his career, so clearly Malone > Jordan
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Doesn't matter, he scored more points in his career, so clearly Malone > Jordan[/QUOTE]
malone? :oldlol: :roll:
that mailman who couldn't deliver in two finals series?
that same mailman who let the GOAT steal the ball from him for the game winning shot?
:roll: :oldlol: :lol
[QUOTE=Asukal]malone? :oldlol: :roll:
that mailman who couldn't deliver in two finals series?
that same mailman who let the GOAT steal the ball from him for the game winning shot?
:roll: :oldlol: :lol[/QUOTE]
Exactly! More career points overshadows everything else that happened in both their career
Sweetness & Barry Sanders > Emmitt Smith
Nobody is taking into account how many more seasons Kobe, Dirk, LeBron, Durant will need more than Jordan to surpass him in total career points :confusedshrug:
MJ still gon' rock the GOAT career pts per gm avg doe :pimp:
[QUOTE=Poetry]Sweetness & Barry Sanders > Emmitt Smith[/QUOTE]
This exactly :bowdown:
It took Smith more seasons than what Sweetness and Sanders played to surpass them.
Not impressed when it will take Kobe like almost half a decade more of seasons played to surpass MJ :oldlol:
[QUOTE=TheMan]
MJ still gon' rock the GOAT career pts per gm avg doe[/QUOTE]
This dude played baseball for the last 2x seasons of his physical prime in '94 or '95. Both seasons would've averaged around 32 ppg. As he did the previous season in 1993, and in 1996 averaged near 31 ppg.
Then if he lingered during his twilight years just to chase all-time scoring records, and not compete for championships ... you're talking 25 ppg - 29 ppg averages for 1999, 2000, and 2001. He'd easily be in first place all-tme. No contest.
:facepalm
[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]This dude played baseball for the last 2x seasons of his physical prime in '94 or '95. Both seasons would've averaged around 32 ppg. As he did the previous season in 1993, and in 1996 averaged near 31 ppg.
Then [B][SIZE="7"]if[/SIZE][/B] he lingered during his twilight years just to chase all-time scoring records, and not compete for championships ... you're talking 25 ppg - 29 ppg averages for 1999, 2000, and 2001. He'd easily be in first place all-tme. No contest.
:facepalm[/QUOTE]
Keyword.
[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]This dude played baseball for the last 2x seasons of his physical prime in '94 or '95. Both seasons would've averaged around 32 ppg. As he did the previous season in 1993, and in 1996 averaged near 31 ppg.
Then if he lingered during his twilight years just to chase all-time scoring records, and not compete for championships ... you're talking 25 ppg - 29 ppg averages for 1999, 2000, and 2001. He'd easily be in first place all-tme. No contest.
:facepalm[/QUOTE]
Don't forget his second season where he got injured. That could be another 28+ ppg, 2500+ points.
[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]This dude played baseball for the last 2x seasons of his physical prime in '94 or '95. Both seasons would've averaged around 32 ppg. As he did the previous season in 1993, and in 1996 averaged near 31 ppg.
Then if he lingered during his twilight years just to chase all-time scoring records, and not compete for championships ... you're talking 25 ppg - 29 ppg averages for 1999, 2000, and 2001. He'd easily be in first place all-tme. No contest.
:facepalm[/QUOTE]
Even with all that he's is #1 pts per gm avg doe, right?
he played a few years in college and retired early... doesn't mean he isn't the goat.
Jordan played in a extremely fast paced era, where every wing was averaging 50%+ FG, and jacking up 25+ shots look it up if you dont believe me :facepalm
Any wing scorer nowadays could easily drop 30+ in that era
Dont see the big deal with MJ
[quote=dubeta]Jordan played in a extremely fast paced era, where every wing was averaging 50%+ FG, and jacking up 25+ shots look it up if you dont believe me :facepalm
Any wing scorer nowadays could easily drop 30+ in that era
Dont see the big deal with MJ[/quote]
Yeah, and they actually had big time centers in that era like ewing, o'neal, olajuwon, daugherty, need i go on who protected the basket. Hand checking rule is also a factor, the league is way softer now.
[QUOTE=Nowitness]so what? fisher is lower on the scoring list than kobe but he's ranked higher all time;
-both had comparable success in their primes
-fish is still competing however. kobe hasn't played a playoff game in about a half decade.[/QUOTE]
2 years man, 1 if he wasn't injured
fisher is retired you dumbass
and less than half a decade ago he won b2b
foh
[QUOTE=knicksman]whats with this Jordan hate.. LOOks like OP forgot how kobe was a first round loser without a big man. Either Pau/Bynum/Shaq[/QUOTE]
Stop making stuff up, he wasn't a first round loser without a big man.
He was in the lottery.
[QUOTE=Inferno][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/lAZ1L.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Love this gif but where the hell is it from? :lol
Meanwhile, Kobe at no risk of getting kicked out of the top of FGA missed all time any time soon. GodBe, MissBe, ChuckBe. :cheers:
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin].....career scorers of all time
Jordans 32,292 won't hold up
kobes on pace to pass jordan this year
Dirk has 27k at 35 years old. he's gonna pass jordan at age 39 ( atleast 1500 points per season )
[B]Lebron has 23k at 29 years old. he's gonna pass jordan at age 35 or 36 like kobe[/B]
durant has 15k at 25 years old. he's gonna pass jordan at age 34 or 35
and who knows whats ahead for a guy like steph curry. even melo has an outside chance if he hangs on till age 38 )
then what if wiggins takes off.
man i dont think jordan will be in the top 10 after a few generations pass
:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Nah, that means Lebron will average only 18 ppg every season starting from next year until he is ~36 years old......
The reality is he will more likely average more than that, much more than that, he will at his current pace reach 33k in 4 years, max 5 if he averages only 24 ppg.... by the time he is 36 he will be more closer to 40k points, unfortunately.... afterall being the youngest to every scoring total he is on best scoring pace in NBA history, he is actually so far ahead that he can afford to from now on average 19 ppg until he retires and still surpass Kareem, think about that one ... the funny part is he aint even a pure/strict scorer offensively....
[QUOTE=pauk]Nah, that means Lebron will average only 18 ppg every season starting from next year until he is ~36 years old......
The reality is he will more likely average more than that, much more than that, he will at his current pace reach 33k in 4 years, max 5 if he averages only 24 ppg.... by the time he is 36 he will be more closer to 40k points, unfortunately.... afterall being the youngest to every scoring total he is on best scoring pace in NBA history, he is actually so far ahead that he can afford to from now on average 19 ppg until he retires and still surpass Kareem ... [B]the funny part[/B] is he aint even a pure/strict scorer offensively....[/QUOTE]
You know what else is funny?
[B][SIZE="5"]2/5[/SIZE][/B]
:roll: :oldlol: :lol :banana:
[QUOTE=Asukal]You know what else is funny?
[B][SIZE="5"]2/5[/SIZE][/B]
:roll: :oldlol: :lol :banana:[/QUOTE]
5 Finals appearances.... 2 rings/2 fmvps... 4 mvps.... top 10.... by the age of 29.... on pace to very easily shatter Kareems scoring total (not to mention much else).....
Sure is amusing.... :bowdown:
[QUOTE=pauk]5 Finals appearances.... 2 rings/2 fmvps... 4 mvps.... top 10.... by the age of 29.... [B]on pace to very easily shatter Kareems scoring total[/B] (not to mention much else).....
Sure is amusing.... :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
:applause:
Bran is such a great scorer I'm sure he will shatter 30.1 ppg when he retires. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Asukal]:applause:
Bran is such a great scorer I'm sure he will shatter 30.1 ppg when he retires. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
MJ was no doubt a more prolific scorer than Lebron (the best at that in NBA history in my opinion), however scoring totals is a different subject.... thats more about longevity.... something MJ had going for him aswell had he not retired 1000 times...
[QUOTE=Nowitness]so what? fisher is lower on the scoring list than kobe but he's ranked higher all time;
-both had comparable success in their primes
-fish is still competing however. kobe hasn't played a playoff game in about a half decade.[/QUOTE]
You know how long a decade is right?
MJ really messed up by retiring over and over again. He could've made his GOAT status more and more untouchable had he played straight from '84-'03. Maybe he wouldn't had lasted untill '03, but he could've had an even better career had he played basketball from '84 to '99 or 2000.
[B][QUOTE=Poetry]Sweetness & Barry Sanders > Emmitt Smith[/QUOTE]
when did i say career points makes you a better player
i just said it makes you have a better overall career scoring. which is why they keep track in the first place
a guy could hit 50 homeruns 10 straight seasons and retire like barry sanders. is he a better overall career homerun hitter than barry bonds or hank aaron?
no
he'd still only have 500 homeruns. which anyone can get these days
its way harder to get 750+ homeruns
longevity and consistancy is way harder... allot of great players dominate their primes. but to be able to put up prime numbers 5-10 years past your prime year in year out is what makes overall careers even more great
like people would just assume ken griffey was gonna hit 800 homeruns. because he was on pace to over his first 10-11 years in the league. he could have retired that day and gotten the barry sanders treatment. but he kept playing. went to the reds and stunk it up for a decade cause of injuries and other shit. he went from arguable goat to top 30 maybe
so it isnt just automatic cause someone does something for a decade that he can do it for 20 years
you bunch of ****ing moronic assholes
[/B]
[QUOTE=KBaller33]MJ really messed up by retiring over and over again. He could've made his GOAT status more and more untouchable had he played straight from '84-'03. Maybe he wouldn't had lasted untill '03, but he could've had an even better career had he played basketball from '84 to '99 or 2000.[/QUOTE]
True, but even still- he has 10 scoring titles and the highest PPG in league History. Doesn't matter if a guy plays 30 years, he's not touching that.
[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]You know how long a decade is right?[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll:
2 years apparently
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]
when did i say career points makes you a better player
i just said it makes you have a better overall career scoring. which is why they keep track in the first place
a guy could hit 50 homeruns 10 straight seasons and retire like barry sanders. is he a better overall career homerun hitter than barry bonds or hank aaron?
no
he'd still only have 500 homeruns. which anyone can get these days
its way harder to get 750+ homeruns
longevity and consistancy is way harder... allot of great players dominate their primes. but to be able to put up prime numbers 5-10 years past your prime year in year out is what makes overall careers even more great
like people would just assume ken griffey was gonna hit 800 homeruns. because he was on pace to over his first 10-11 years in the league. he could have retired that day and gotten the barry sanders treatment. but he kept playing. went to the reds and stunk it up for a decade cause of injuries and other shit. [B]he went from arguable goat to top 30 maybe[/B]
so it isnt just automatic cause someone does something for a decade that he can do it for 20 years
you bunch of ****ing moronic assholes
[/QUOTE]
Sounds like what's happening to Kobe the next 2 years. :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]:roll: :roll:
2 years apparently[/QUOTE]
scoring titles 90% of the time are reserved for people on bad teams or teams that are built entirely on defense and one guy can jack up 25 shots without disrupting the flow
which is basically what MJ had his entire career
half his career was a stinker team. the other half was a derrick rose type built team.
kobe on the other hand was on contenders 99% of his career. he couldnt just play the 2006 mode. especially cause his team was built on passing, chemistry, offensive efficiency and wasnt known much for defense allot of the time.
put kobe on the bulls from 84-98.. he doesnt take breaks. he probably wins 8 titles... and during the 80's he also ups his scoring average and gets that 30ppg and a load of scoring titles playing with a defensive powerhouse
scoring titles have never been impressive. wilt averaged 50 and lost the mvp to russell. so i guess theres more to the game.
kobe sacrificed his entire life to win. jordan was able to average 4 more shots per game his entire career.
its jordans own fault he kept quitting the game. he cost himself the real scoring championship.
[QUOTE=Beastmode88]Sounds like what's happening to Kobe the next 2 years. :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
except kobe is closing in on that 800 homerun mark within 2-3 years and hes only 35
and he didnt drop off after the 10 year mark like griffey. kobe was a 1st team all nba player in year 11
year 12
year 13
year 14
year 15
year 16
and year 17
also while stacking on more titles :lol
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]scoring titles 90% of the time are reserved for people on bad teams or teams that are built entirely on defense and one guy can jack up 25 shots without disrupting the flow
which is basically what MJ had his entire career
[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
Jordan won 6 of his 10 scoring titles on teams that won the championship. 9 out of the 10 were on teams that went to at least the second round. 8 of the 10 were on teams that won at least 50 games.
Bean on the other hand never won a scoring title during any of the Lakers 5 championship runs. His only 2 scoring titles came on teams that lost in the first round. Neither of those instances were on 50 win teams.
So your claim above only applies to Bean- he was only the supposed best scorer in the league when he was chucking on lottery teams that couldn't get out of the first round or win 50 games (not to mention he only won AFTER the rule changes of the summer of '05).
Talk about a backfire :yaohappy:
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]:oldlol:
Jordan won 6 of his 10 scoring titles on teams that won the championship. 9 out of the 10 were on teams that went to at least the second round. 8 of the 10 were on teams that won at least 50 games.
Bean on the other hand never won a scoring title during any of the Lakers 5 championship runs. His only 2 scoring titles came on teams that lost in the first round. Neither of those instances were on 50 win teams.
So your claim above only applies to Bean- he was only the supposed best scorer in the league when he was chucking on lottery teams that couldn't get out of the first round or win 50 games (not to mention he only won AFTER the rule changes of the summer of '05).
Talk about a backfire :yaohappy:[/QUOTE]
BOOM! Headshot :oldlol:
I'd also like to add that KennethGriffin is full of shit, MJ wasn't on a team where he could shoot to his heart's content, you could argue that he did that in his first few years when he had shit for teammates but after PJax took over, they ran the triangle offense which is based on player and ball movement, MJ was very efficient and shot within the flow of the offense. Griffin trying to revise history as if MJ was hogging the ball all the through shot clock and just jacking up shots all game long :facepalm
[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]except kobe is closing in on that 800 homerun mark within 2-3 years and hes only 35
and he didnt drop off after the 10 year mark like griffey. kobe was a 1st team all nba player in year 11
year 12
year 13
year 14
year 15
year 16
and year 17
also while stacking on [B]more titles[/B] :lol[/QUOTE]
You think Kobe will get title #6? Keep dreaming, you mind as well do what Kobe should of done last year, retire. You better pray he makes it to the playoffs. Not looking good seeing how the Lakers roster is trash. Just look at what happened the year they had Dwight, Nash, MWP and Gasol. Made it to the 8th round and got swept. :roll: :roll: :roll:
.
[size="3"][i][b]MJ Flight: FT Line Distance Takeoffs and/or Crazy Hangtime
[/b][/i][/size]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Cradle_From_Almost_FT_L_be1e0eee2d4613049ae82e8600cc58c1.gif[/img]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/11db85ca30f8e0ecaebec27be6a98090.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/37b24a54a04c23124c905088f5d907fd.gif[/img]
[IMG]http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/6c822484c69a1826b1c1a01515bfae5c.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/538ef229459a981e5c8f278536a17ec7.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/919b363305d3199f4c450c8c41f36c01.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/ea1c7e53f83495db3c80c5346f2da98c.gif[/img]
[IMG]http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/df58bbc9c88c6283fbd002f868828caf.gif[/IMG]
.
[QUOTE=KBaller33]MJ really messed up by retiring over and over again. He could've made his GOAT status more and more untouchable had he played straight from '84-'03. Maybe he wouldn't had lasted untill '03, but he could've had an even better career had he played basketball from '84 to '99 or 2000.[/QUOTE]
Yes he did. I think realistically had MJ started in 84 and not retired, he'd have played through to 2000 or 2001. What we can only speculate on is how much his body would have held up without the various retirements, but other than his second year( broken foot) MJ was very durable, typically playing 80 games a season and there wasn't any reason to think he'd have succumbed to major injuries especially considering his game transitioned further and further away from the basket as he got older. MJ's game aged as gracefully as possible for a player known as a highflying slasher in his youth/peak.
What we can reasonably speculate is that MJ probably left at least another mvp, ring( I don't see why they wouldn't win in 94 with MJ, prime pip, Kukoc, armstrong, Grant), finals mvp, two scoring titles and challenged Kareem's scoring total, on the table by leaving the game in his prime and again at 35. He was slipping by 98, but still potent and clearly had a few 2000 point seasons left in him.
[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]He was slipping by 98, but still potent and clearly had a few 2000 point seasons left in him.[/QUOTE]
Yea, assuming he doesn't retire in '94 and '95, last seasons of his physical prime with things in his control unlike his sophomore foot injury ... he left a probably '94 Ring, MVP, and 2x Scoring Titles on the table. Probably could've played to '99 or 2000 putting up 25 - 28 ppg then retired the all-time accumulative leading scorer.
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]:oldlol:
Jordan won 6 of his 10 scoring titles on teams that won the championship.
[B][I]this is actually a great point[/I][/B]
seeing as how everyone wasn't blessed with low volume big men as their
main competition for scoring titles . . . . . obv., big men were the
better scorers and players in the league during that time
nique - karl - d rob - hakeem - shaq
just 1 of 5 a deadly scorer from the perimeter which meant
jordan was going against the opposition's 2nd 3rd n 4th
best player most of the time . . . . playing iso-ball vs
super low volume low-skill unathletically-small SG
from 86-87 to 97-98 . . . . 12 years
only 5 shooting guards finished top 5 in scoring
dale ellis - drexler - chris mullin - jim Jackson - mitch richmond
conversely , , since 2000
kobe's challengers for the scoring title has been the oppositions best
perimeter player every time . . . all high volume highly skilled
uber athletic scoring machines that created their own
iverson - tmac - vince - lebron - wade - melo - durant
but let's not bring level of comp into this
:yaohappy:[/QUOTE]
because context has obviously left the building
[QUOTE]from 86-87 to 97-98 . . . . 12 years
only 5 shooting guards finished top 5 in scoring
dale ellis - drexler - chris mullin - jim Jackson - mitch richmond
conversely , , since 2000
kobe's challengers for the scoring title has been the oppositions best
perimeter player every time . . . all high volume highly skilled
uber athletic scoring machines that created their own
iverson - tmac - vince - lebron - wade - melo - durant[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
What don't you people understand about the rule changes that favored perimeter scoring? If anything, everything you posted above just makes Jordan's accomplishments even more impressive. He was getting scoring titles as a SG in an era where the most dominant centers were playing without the rules favoring swingmen.
Kobe, Iverson, Ray Allen were all drafted in 1996... they didn't have their best scoring seasons until 2006, 10 seasons after they were drafted. That has never happened in NBA History. Where were Bean's 50 and 60 point explosions BEFORE the rule changes? Iverson at [I]5'11, 165 and at 30 years old[/I] all of a sudden puts up 33 PPG?
Come on, Son :oldlol:
Bean wasn't even the focal point of defenses for half his career and played the second half under optimal conditions for perimeter scorers... and he only has 2 scoring titles to show for it.
Now [I]that's[/I] what you call context.
Mj is 3rd all-time and he retired during his prime. If he played straight to 03 he would probably be number 1