How is it even questionable that MJ is GOAT?

[QUOTE=DaSeba5]It's the same guy for the most part with like 5 alts. A simple ban and this place really gets cleaned up.[/QUOTE]

That is just pathetic. Whoever this lonely sole is needs some professional help! I picture some fat nerd with 4 PC's online at the same time on different VPN's posting one comment after another, and sometimes replying to himself! :lol

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]On topic, Mj is my goat....that said the goat debate is very subjective and dependant on what your particular criteria may be. I grew up thinking Mj walked on water no lie, but as an adult I've seen a few compelling arguments for other guys. Just a few, all depends on your personal perspectives on what makes a goat. It is in fact idiotic imo to attack people for having a different opinion without even hearing out the whats and whys. You can learn alot about other players if you take in the reasons in these debates. Trolls will troll but why even waste energy on them? That said I agree Mj is goat and I'd say consensus but that doesn't mean nobody else has a case or he can't be in question. The goat debate will never end fellas.....[/QUOTE]

To me Kareem has a reasonable case. The other guys ... there's just too many holes in the case.

Jordan and Kareem have the most complete overall resumes.

But Jordan has such an incredible career, I often couldn't even believe how things would turn out sometimes, you would hope for one thing and something like 5x better would happen. It was just ridiculous.

After 95, I had hoped the Bulls could maybe win one more title with Jordan being 32 already, but to win 72 games the very next season and the title on top of another threepeat? Sweep Orlando? It's like a movie script, that type of thing is not supposed to happen in real life.

[QUOTE=Straight_Ballin]That is just pathetic. Whoever this lonely sole is needs some professional help! I picture some fat nerd with 4 PC's online at the same time on different VPN's posting one comment after another, and sometimes replying to himself! :lol[/QUOTE]
Someone is projecting hard core. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

It's actually pretty simple, people rank players for different reasons. :eek:

Jordan is amazing and I watch him in awe every time I do, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me he deserves to be ranked over GOAT centers with the impact the position brings....Specifically Kareem and Wilt.

[QUOTE=JT123]They wanna get rid of anyone who isn't a mindless follower of the Nike Jordan hype. :facepalm[/QUOTE]

I don't care about Jordan that much. He killed my team back in the 90s. And I hate the Bulls. I have absolutely 0 agenda in this thread.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]To me Kareem has a reasonable case. The other guys ... there's just too many holes in the case.

Jordan and Kareem have the most complete overall resumes.

But Jordan has such an incredible career, I often couldn't even believe how things would turn out sometimes, you would hope for one thing and something like 5x better would happen. It was just ridiculous.

After 95, I had hoped the Bulls could maybe win one more title, but to win 72 games the very next season and the title on top of another threepeat? Never would've crossed my mind.[/QUOTE]
I hear ya, and I agree. His career was almost too good to be true and just happened to occur at the perfect place and the perfect time for it to all come together the way it did. There's russell who will always have his case and wilt as well. It just depends on what holds the most eeight to each individual.

Edit** hell even magic and bird had their cases before Mj's rise.

[QUOTE=JT123]Someone is projecting hard core. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol[/QUOTE]

^ looks like we found our guy. Go log onto another one of your 4 alts since this one has been figured out.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]I hear ya, and I agree. His career was almost too good to be true and just happened to occur at the perfect place and the perfect time for it to all come together the way it did. There's russell who will always have his case and wilt as well. It just depends on what holds the most eeight to each individual.

Edit** hell even magic and bird had their cases before Mj's rise.[/QUOTE]

Beyond that I think Jordan is the most complete basketball talent ever.

Incredible scorer, but also a very high end defender.

Elite competitive player, probably the greatest clutch player ever to play. Greatest playoff performer. The intangibles are off the chart. I appreciate that stuff more than just the numbers, the numbers are great, sure, but they don't tell the story fully.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]Beyond that I think Jordan is the most complete basketball talent ever.

Incredible scorer, but also a very high end defender.

Elite competitive player, probably the greatest clutch player ever to play. Greatest playoff performer. The intangibles are off the chart.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention going against elite competition. I mean shit, Bron couldn't even beat old man Duncan! :lol

Even though most would pick him first the amount of people who say he's GOAT seems to be a lot more than the people who'd take him 1st in an all time draft over a GOAT center. Anyone else notice this?

[QUOTE=jongib369]Even though most would pick him first the amount of people who say he's GOAT seems to be a lot more than the people who'd take him 1st in an all time draft over a GOAT center. Anyone else notice this?[/QUOTE]

I think it's just basketball logic though you always build around a center. It's a safety blanket complex.

Even for me, outside of Jordan I would take Shaq coming out of college over any other player. Jordan is the exception to this rule, he's like Neo in the Matrix, he bent/changed some of the rules.

Traditionally great teams have a great center, even up until the 1990s a lot of people said it was impossible to win a championship without a very good center and that's why the Bulls were supposedly never going to win (that and a scoring champion apparently never wins the championship).

That said if there's a big game and my life depended on it, gimme a Jordan or Bird 10/10 over a Shaq or Wilt or even Kareem. I want someone with ice in their veins.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]Beyond that I think Jordan is the most complete basketball talent ever.

Incredible scorer, but also a very high end defender.

Elite competitive player, probably the greatest clutch player ever to play. Greatest playoff performer. The intangibles are off the chart.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Preaching to the choir. My whole thing is just don't sleep on these other legends, they were amazing as well. Kareem dominated every level of basketball for basically 25 yrs. Wilt dominated at a level never seen and never to be seen again. His numbers look pencil whipped lol. Bird and Magic were able to play the game at the highest level the way most feel it was meant to be played. Russell the ultimate winner, period. And of course Mj the one I feel succeeded doing it the way they all said couldn't be done. There's a reason this has been a never ending topic.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]Yep. Preaching to the choir. My whole thing is just don't sleep on these other legends, they were amazing as well. Kareem dominated every level of basketball for basically 25 yrs. Wilt dominated at a level never seen and never to be seen again. His nunbers look pencil whipped lol. Bird and Magic were able to play the game at the highest level the way most feel it was meant to be played. Russell the ultimate winner, period. And of course Mj the one I feel succeeded doing it the way they all said couldn't be done. There's a reason this has been a never ending topic.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I've always felt MJ is basically the intersection of the great Wilt Vs. Russell debate ... he has Wilt's flair/offensive dominance but he combines that with Russell's hyper-competitiveness and winning persona.

Of the three "GOATs", in terms of "wanting" to win, I think Jordan, Russell, and Bird are basically on a tier above the rest.

Wilt wanted badly for people to like him and to fit in, Russell didn't give a f*ck about fitting in or apologizing for success.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]I think it's just basketball logic though you always build around a center. It's a safety blanket complex.

Even for me, outside of Jordan I would take Shaq coming out of college over any other player. Jordan is the exception to this rule, he's like Neo in the Matrix, he bent/changed some of the rules.

Traditionally great teams have a great center, even up until the 1990s a lot of people said it was impossible to win a championship without a very good center and that's why the Bulls were supposedly never going to win (that and a scoring champion apparently never wins the championship).

That said if there's a big game and my life depended on it, gimme a Jordan or Bird 10/10 over a Shaq or Wilt or even Kareem. I want someone with ice in their veins.[/QUOTE]
I can understand and respect that...What makes you rank Jordan over GOAT centers? To be specific, the ones I said being Kareem and Wilt and then Shaq which you mentioned

[QUOTE=jongib369]I can understand and respect that...What makes you rank Jordan over GOAT centers? To be specific, the ones I said being Kareem and Wilt and then Shaq which you mentioned[/QUOTE]

Wilt see above.

I think part of it really is mentality. Jordan and Russell were stone cold killers on a basketball court. If you're going to war these are the guys you want as generals. They just have that attitude.

Wilt I'm finding was a pretty fascinating guy, but I don't think he had that "nothing but death is going to beat me today" attitude. For Wilt if he scored his quota of points/rebounds, he basically had done his job and if they won, great, if not, well tough.

That said though I do think a lot of it was bad luck too ... Wilt played on some bad teams.

To be honest a lot of tall people are actually very reserved on a personal level. Wilt and Shaq should be the no.1/2 GOATs, but there's just something missing there.

Kareem/Russell/Wilt have cases.

The rest don't.

Do we need to beat this dead horse?

Because Kareem has a better resume?

Because Russell has twice the rings?

Because Wilt owns almost every record in the record books?



There are plenty of reasons why MJ isn't the undisputed GOAT... and I was raised on Michael Jordan.

If Kareem, Magic and Kobe didnt exist then it is not even questionable to say MJ is GOAT..

[quote=jt123]1-9[/quote]
6/6

Tbh after the stunning revelation that MJ was 1-9, i'm seriously questioning his GOAT status

Why is this even a thread?

the rest of you are idiots for even entertaining OP's question.

[QUOTE]How is it even questionable that MJ is GOAT?[/QUOTE]

-By only being a little above 50% as successful in terms of titles as another GOAT candidate.
-By being less individually dominant than at least another GOAT candidate. It's funny how in almost any team sport, the player who is the most individually dominant ever is widely considered the GOAT, even without dominating the team titles, yet, in basketball, some like to pretend he's not even top-5.
-By not having as dominant an overall basketball career as at least another GOAT candidate.
-By not creating by his presence or absence the most impressive team turnarounds in history, like taking a mediocre team and making them an instant 50+ win threat or like leaving a team and this team not collapsing anywhere near as badly as projected by lots.
-By consuming fans and media so much that a lot of them considered him the GOAT after 8-9 years, which, in order to be true, would require him to achieve things more than twice as fast as Kareem, who played for 20. This bias doesn't ruin his valid GOAT arguments, but it does mean that we'll have to take their judgment with a grain of salt.

Really, if you study the careers of all GOATs, and you apply the same sympathy or antipathy or neutrality on the career cases of each one (e.g, if the achievements of someone like Wilt have to be brought down, just because of his physical advantage, so will the achievements of any other GOAT candidate who belongs to the same "physically advantageous" category, including Jordan), how is it even questionable that someone else may also be the GOAT?

[QUOTE=Psileas]-By only being a little above 50% as successful in terms of titles as another GOAT candidate.
-By being less individually dominant than at least another GOAT candidate. It's funny how in almost any team sport, the player who is the most individually dominant ever is widely considered the GOAT, even without dominating the team titles, yet, in basketball, some like to pretend he's not even top-5.
-By not having as dominant an overall basketball career as at least another GOAT candidate.
-By not creating by his presence or absence the most impressive team turnarounds in history, like taking a mediocre team and making them an instant 50+ win threat or like leaving a team and this team not collapsing anywhere near as badly as projected by lots.
-By consuming fans and media so much that a lot of them considered him the GOAT after 8-9 years, which, in order to be true, would require him to achieve things more than twice as fast as Kareem, who played for 20. This bias doesn't ruin his valid GOAT arguments, but it does mean that we'll have to take their judgment with a grain of salt.

Really, if you study the careers of all GOATs, and you apply the same sympathy or antipathy or neutrality on the career cases of each one (e.g, if the achievements of someone like Wilt have to be brought down, just because of his physical advantage, so will the achievements of any other GOAT candidate who belongs to the same "physically advantageous" category, including Jordan), how is it even questionable that someone else may also be the GOAT?[/QUOTE]
Well said.

[QUOTE=Psileas]-By only being a little above 50% as successful in terms of titles as another GOAT candidate.
[B]-By being less individually dominant than at least another GOAT candidate. It's funny how in almost any team sport, the player who is the most individually dominant ever is widely considered the GOAT, even without dominating the team titles, yet, in basketball, some like to pretend he's not even top-5.[/B]
-By not having as dominant an overall basketball career as at least another GOAT candidate.
-By not creating by his presence or absence the most impressive team turnarounds in history, like taking a mediocre team and making them an instant 50+ win threat or like leaving a team and this team not collapsing anywhere near as badly as projected by lots.
-By consuming fans and media so much that a lot of them considered him the GOAT after 8-9 years, which, in order to be true, would require him to achieve things more than twice as fast as Kareem, who played for 20. This bias doesn't ruin his valid GOAT arguments, but it does mean that we'll have to take their judgment with a grain of salt.

Really, if you study the careers of all GOATs, and you apply the same sympathy or antipathy or neutrality on the career cases of each one (e.g, if the achievements of someone like Wilt have to be brought down, just because of his physical advantage, so will the achievements of any other GOAT candidate who belongs to the same "physically advantageous" category, including Jordan), how is it even questionable that someone else may also be the GOAT?[/QUOTE]

Who? Wilt? The guy who has a 22 ppg PO scoring average? Jordan shits on Wilt in the playoffs and in the finals. That stat padding choker is not even in the conversation. :oldlol:

because there are a lot of idiots that didnt see jordan play and like to revise history.

[QUOTE=poido123]Kareem/Russell/Wilt have cases.

The rest don't.

Do we need to beat this dead horse?[/QUOTE]
:applause:

he's the GOAT perimeter player and it's not even up for debate.

No matter who anyone thinks is GOAT, it's always questionable. There's decent cases for at least 4-5 players depending on the criteria.

Individual dominance/Stats? Wilt
Rings as the man? Russell
Combo of stats/skill/championships/ individual accolades? MJ
Collegiate/NBA titles/ stats/ longevity/ accolades? Kareem.

[QUOTE=bdreason]Because Kareem has a better resume?

Because Russell has twice the rings?

Because Wilt owns almost every record in the record books?

There are plenty of reasons why MJ isn't the undisputed GOAT... and I was raised on Michael Jordan.[/QUOTE]

Yeah this is pretty much exactly where I stand as well. Gun to my head I probably vote Jordan but its idiotic to suggest no one is even in the conversation. Kareem very well might have been the best player in the world from his Jr year at UCLA until 80-81. His PER rankings are >>> MJs and he won the BUCKS a freaking NBA title. And C always have a more significant impact defensively than wings. And his longevity... Well he is the all-time leading scorer.

Kind of embarrassing we are 5 pages in and no one has really bothered to make the case against MJ.

The biggest argument out there against MJ is the statistical calculation of impact on impact on score. RAPM is Ridge Adjusted Plus Minus. It attempts to remove who you are playing, who are you on the court with and your personal impact on score. Its a per possession calculation so sometimes you end up with outliers but MJ simply did not dominate this stat the way you would expect him to. In fact, his best season was ~+5.3. LeBron and TD have both had seasons > 10.0.

The last argument is the age he achieved his legacy. The Heat and Hornets had just joined the league and it was decidedly a little more watered down than in previous generations. It wasn't that there wasn't significant talent on other teams, its that the depth of that talent was pretty mediocre. Who was MJ's biggest rival? The Knicks? Who was the second best player on the Knicks? Because John Starks was BAGGING GROCERIES for a living in 1989.

As far as MJ vs today's players, the differences in defense rules are enormous. In his best scoring season there were 36 players that scored 20+ ppg. In 2013 there were 9. Defenses are significantly better now at denying first options. And while Iso ball was the most efficient play in basketball in Jordan's age it is the worst basketball possible now. The league avg for ISO plays is ~.54 ppp. That loses to league avg basketball by ~50 points/100 possessions. Even the most efficent ISO player is well below league avg. So anyone that says MJ could win titles playing like he did in his peak is flat out wrong. Now I think he could adjust but that is far from a certainty.

I believe Jordan is the GOAT, but I believe the questioning is also legitimate.

Jordan had 4 solid losing seasons, whereas a guy like Duncan who's played A LOT longer has never had a season under 60% wins. Duncan has 5 championships and counting and was a better defender than Jordan. Duncan has far less holes in his resume, but didn't have the length of peak that Jordan did (although you could argue that his peak was just as good...in other words, you didn't see Jordan ever getting close to a quadruple-double in a championship-sealing Finals game). Jordan also shot pretty bad percentages from the field. I mean, we give all this praise to Kawhi for shutting down Lebron this year in the Finals, but for comparison-sake Jordan NEVER had a finals where he shot as good as Lebron did THIS YEAR. He also had fairly weak Finals competition overall (in other words, these were teams that couldn't win championships...Jazz, Sonics, Blazers, Suns.) Duncan ousted the defending '04 Champion Pistons and B2B Champion Heat for comparison. For conference competition, it was fairly similar. Jordan finally got past the Isaiah Pistons, whereas Duncan finally got past the Shaq/Kobe Lakers (granted he did it before their dynasty and after). I really wish Jordan wouldn't have retired the second time so we could have seen him go up against Duncan. I also wish Jordan had the sustained greatness that Duncan did late in his career to keep his team in the playoffs, so we could have seen how he faired when he wasn't in his absolute prime, but he never could do that.

I do consider MJ the GOAT, but come on. I'm comparing him to the guy I have at #5 who has a lot on him, so I don't think it's without question that he is the absolute GOAT...he had his resume flaws, mainly longevity and the inability to carry teams who weren't really good without him.

[IMG]http://www.movpins.com/big/MV5BNDI1NzAzNDU4N15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTkzNTA2OQ/still-of-kareem-abdul-jabbar-in-airplane!-(1980)-large-picture.jpg[/IMG]

airplane> looney coons

Jordan detractors like to go on and on, and anyone can type longwinded essays about why ANY of the top 10 players of all time aren't as great as they're supposed to be. That is because basketball and a sport and thus subjective, unlike mathematics.

However, Jordan has the best combination of offensive excellence, mixed with defensive excellence mixed with gaudy numbers, mixed with winning, mixed with accolades from both a team and individual perspective.

No one else who's a candidate has all of that. No matter how many longwinded essays about he's overrated, and it's all because of Nike/Gatorade, etc. that brainwashed everyone, you can't change that.

And even if you don't think he's GOAT, you just can't argue that what I mentioned doesn't at least make him a CANDIDATE. And if he's a candidate, wtf are you mad that he's considered GOAT?

:pimp:

[QUOTE=Soundwave]The 2000 Lakers are probably the most stacked team of the modern era ... young Shaq, young Kobe, Glenn Rice, Robert Horry. Before that would be the 80s Lakers/Celtics.

Bulls are on par with the recent Heat for talent, maybe a little less. They had less pure talent, but more heart/hustle.[/QUOTE]
By what metric are you basing this?

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]
And even if you don't think he's GOAT, you just can't argue that what I mentioned doesn't at least make him a CANDIDATE. And if he's a candidate, wtf are you mad that he's considered GOAT?

:pimp:[/QUOTE]
I think you missed the entire premise. No one questions Mj's case or legitimacy of it. It's the absolute certainty it's presented with.......

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]I think you missed the entire premise. No one questions Mj's case or legitimacy of it. It's the absolute certainty it's presented with.......[/QUOTE]

OK, but again. If you admit he's a candidate, why would you care if someone else thinks it's an absolute certainty that he is? I could understand if he really had no legitimate case, but was getting GOAT talk PURELY because of hype. But he arguably has the best case out of all candidates. So the only reason it makes sense is that some people just can't stand Jordan, and hate that a player they dislike has such a case for GOAT. Of course they won't admit THAT, so they have to come up with all sorts of nonsense ways to detract from his greatness under the guise of "exposing facts the Jordan mythologists don't want you to know" :oldlol:

This is, of course, nonsense. They just dislike Jordan and want to latch on to any possible argument that can somehow detract from his career. It's pathetically transparent, but hey it makes them feel better. It won't stop GOAT GOATing though.

:pimp:

[QUOTE=HurricaneKid]Kind of embarrassing we are 5 pages in and no one has really bothered to make the case against MJ.

The biggest argument out there against MJ is the statistical calculation of impact on impact on score. RAPM is Ridge Adjusted Plus Minus. It attempts to remove who you are playing, who are you on the court with and your personal impact on score. Its a per possession calculation so sometimes you end up with outliers but MJ simply did not dominate this stat the way you would expect him to. In fact, his best season was ~+5.3. LeBron and TD have both had seasons > 10.0.[/QUOTE]

Err, where are you getting this data from? As far as I know, RAPM was not calculated for any of Jordan's seasons, and if it was, it was likely only for '97/'98, not any of his prime seasons. Regardless, I'd like a source.

If we look at straight +/- as seen on NBA.com (which again only goes back to the '97 season, when Jordan was 34 years old), we see that Jordan led the league in +/- among starters in '97 and '98 at 7.2 and 7.5 +/- respectively. Compare that to Lebron's 1.4, 5.0 and 3.7 +/- in 2011, '13 and '14, respectively. Yes, Lebron did have an 8.7 +/- in 2012, but again that's prime James and a 34/35 year old Jordan.

Per basketball-reference.com, Jordan's SPM in 1993 was higher than Lebron's in 2010.

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]OK, but again. If you admit he's a candidate, why would you care if someone else thinks it's an absolute certainty that he is? I could understand if he really had no legitimate case, but was getting GOAT talk PURELY because of hype. But he arguably has the best case out of all candidates. So the only reason it makes sense is that some people just can't stand Jordan, and hate that a player they dislike has such a case for GOAT. Of course they won't admit THAT, so they have to come up with all sorts of nonsense ways to detract from his greatness under the guise of "exposing facts the Jordan mythologists don't want you to know" :oldlol:

This is, of course, nonsense. They just dislike Jordan and want to latch on to any possible argument that can somehow detract from his career. It's pathetically transparent, but hey it makes them feel better. It won't stop GOAT GOATing though.

:pimp:[/QUOTE]
Kinda over the top there buddy, but I'll bite. I don't think anyone is mad, certainly not myself he's my Goat. Also the topic wasn't made by detractors to begin with, the thread title is:
"How is it even questionable that Mj is goat?"
If you don't see the flaw in that thinking I don't think you'll ever be able to.

Michael Jordan is the Michael Jordan of basketball.

There's always gonna be this right here:

[B]MINUTES
[/B]Most seasons leading league: 8
Most consecutive seasons leading league: 5
Highest average per game, career: 45.8
Highest average per game, season: 48.5
[B]COMPLETE GAMES
[/B]Most, season: 79
Most consecutive, season: 47
[B]SCORING
[/B]Most cons. seasons leading league: *7
Most points, season: 4,029
Highest average, season: 50.4
Most points, rookie, season: 2,707
Highest average, rookie, season: 37.6
Most points, game: 100
Most points, rookie, game: 58
Most games, 50 or more, career: 118
Most games, 50 or more, season: 45
Most cons.e games, 50 or more points: 7
Most games, 40 or more, career: 271
Most games, 40 or more, season: 63
Most cons. games, 40 or more points: 14
Most cons. games, 30 or more points: 65
Most cons. games, 20 or more points: 126
Most points, one half: 59
[B]FIELD-GOAL PERCENTAGE
[/B]Most seasons leading league: **9
Most cons. seasons leading league: 5
Highest, season (qualifiers): .727
Highest, game (min. 15 FG): ***1.000
Most field goals, no misses, game: 18
[B]FIELD GOALS
[/B]Most cons. seasons leading league: *7
Most, season: 1,597
Most cons., no misses, season: 35
Most, game: 36
Most, one half: 22
[B]FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS
[/B]Most cons. seasons leading league: 7
Most, season: 3,159
Most, game: 63
Most, one half: 37
Most, one quarter: 21
[B]FREE THROWS MADE
[/B]Most, game: 28
[B]FREE THROW ATTEMPTS
[/B]Most seasons leading league: 9
Most cons. seasons leading league: 6
Most, season: 1,363
Most, game: 34
[B]REBOUNDS
[/B]Most seasons leading league: 11
Most, career: 23,924
Highest average, career: 22.9
Most, season: 2,149
Most, rookie, season: 1,941
Most seasons, 1,000 or more: 13
Highest average, season: 27.2
Most, game: 55
Most, rookie, game: 45
[B]DISQUALIFICATIONS
[/B]Lowest percentage, career: ****0.00
[B]POINTS, PLAYOFFS
[/B]Most by rookie, game: 53
[B]MINUTES, PLAYOFFS
[/B]Most, 3-game series: 144
Most, 4-game series: 195
Most, 6-game series: 296
[B]FIELD GOALS, PLAYOFFS
[/B]Most, 7-game series: 113
Most made, game: 24
Most attempts, game: 28
Most attempts, half: 25
[B]FIELD GOAL ATTEMPTS, PLAYOFFS
[/B]Most, 3-game series: 104
Highest field goal percentage (minimum, 8): 1.000*****
[B]REBOUNDS, PLAYOFFS
[/B]Most, 5-game series: 160
Most, 6-game series: 171
Most, 7-game series: 220
Highest average, per game, series: 32.0
Most, game: 41
Most, half: 26
Most by rookie, game: 35
[B]MINUTES, FINALS
[/B]Most, 5-game series: 240
[B]REBOUNDS, FINALS
[/B]Most, 6-game series: 171
Most, half: 26
NOTES
*Tied with Michael Jordan
**Tied with Shaquille O'Neal
***Three times (15/15, 16/16, 18/18)
****Tied with several others, but played most games of any
*****Tied with 12 others

Those are just SOME of the records that still stand... FORTY YEARS LATER.

It doesn't include his 9 triple doubles in a row, or 4th all time in triple doubles,
* or the stupendous 22 points, 25 rebounds, & 21 assist double triple double,
* or his quadruple doubles in playoffs,
* nor the 103 30-30 games (out of a league total 131 30-30 games in history)
* nor his 227 consecutive double-doubles from 1964 to 1967....
* the Man also holds the second and third longest continuous streaks of double-doubles with 220 and 133.

Dude held virtually [I]every [/I]record that had ever existed at the time he retired.
**************************************
When all that comes up, suddenly people trying to defend other players shift around and start talking about team accomplishments or popularity contests instead of what the individual actually accomplished. People defending Jordan always slither around the first half of his career when his team accomplished zilch. He wasn't any less of a player, he just had lousy teams.

All that just changes the metric and what it really comes down to is... the purest form of B.S.
***************************************
Coming from a guy who watched half of Chamberlain's career - [I]nobody[/I] ever dominated the court like he did.

He stands alone with Mike & Kareem. Everybody else is some lower tier.