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[QUOTE=wally_world][IMG]http://imageshack.com/a/img674/6607/Bbqr1C.jpg[/IMG]
dr.hee post this on the first post. Those teams with 2 posts combine them into one and you can replace their 2nd post with my team. I'll do up and pm you a set of instructions for you to include in the first post. Lets get this thing started.[/QUOTE]
Team Rizko
Team Dr Hee
Team Kshutts
Team Marchesk
Team Legend
top 5 teams imo
Thanks wally! Gonna try to give power rankings/impressions tonight but then again I've been saying that for like a week. :oldlol:
It's a shame interest died in the second draft. One big draft with like 16-20 teams would have been interesting. Maybe next time.
Real quick then I gotta run for the day...
Love that single post that someone made. Props.
@Dr.Hee,
I don't see spacing issues with Shaq and Chuck. Barkley had range and handles. He was like... there's no one like him... but he was like a super roided up Antoine Walker on offense, perhaps. Efficiency dropped off at the 3p line, as he only shot in the low 30s, maybe, but otherwise he had legit range, could handle the ball, etc. I don't see Shaq and Chuck having a problem in a half court set.
And on a tangent, don't know why I just thought of this, but that team will definitely be the most hilarious. Putting those two together? Wow.
And as for my not needing Baylor, I agree, though I'd say I don't need Pettit, as he was the second choice. One thing I really like about having Baylor is he's the lone perimeter player I have that is a slasher. TMac could slash, but that's not really what he did.
Pettit was the "bad" pick. I honestly chose him because I thought Kizzle would if I didn't, and that would uber-stack his roster, IMO, as Pettit is arguably a top 10 player ever. If you remember correctly, I even tried trading him off, after the fact.
Oh well, it was my first ever draft of this type, and I learned a lot, and curious to see if we do another. I'd like to, but only if the participants will be active. I know I'd build a better team, but I'm not so sure I'd be lucky enough to have Russell and KG together again, lol.
[QUOTE=MP.Trey]Thanks wally! Gonna try to give power rankings/impressions tonight but then again I've been saying that for like a week. :oldlol:
It's a shame interest died in the second draft. One big draft with like 16-20 teams would have been interesting. Maybe next time.[/QUOTE]
Indeed. 6 teams from the 2nd draft are completed, but 4 owners dropped off the face of the earth, making it moot. :facepalm
I wonder if we (you and I) from the second draft can still compete in a round robin tournament? then face off against the first draft winner?
I do think dr hee made two mistakes in the years he took. 06 dirk was a better player than 11 dirk. He was more athletic, a much better defender and rebounder and better off the bounce. He didn't really have the 1 footed turn around yet though so I can see the reasoning for taking him in 11 even if I wouldn't. I would definitely have taken younger Kidd though. Kidd Marion Hakeem is as athletic as it gets at 1-3-5 and if you had taken him and 06 dirk, you keep the teak friendly aspect while also removing any questions whatsoever about athleticism.
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]I do think dr hee made two mistakes in the years he took. 06 dirk was a better player than 11 dirk. He was more athletic, a much better defender and rebounder and better off the bounce. He didn't really have the 1 footed turn around yet though so I can see the reasoning for taking him in 11 even if I wouldn't. I would definitely have taken younger Kidd though. Kidd Marion Hakeem is as athletic as it gets at 1-3-5 and if you had taken him and 06 dirk, you keep the teak friendly aspect while also removing any questions whatsoever about athleticism.[/QUOTE]
I took 2011 Dirk because with the 06 version, opponents could've gone all Don Nelson on me and put smaller players on him. Maybe prime Pippen/Rodman/Bowen/Battier etc. The Warriors succeeded that way in 07, so I'd have a hard time arguing against this approach to be a potential problem. In 2011, it didn't matter who guarded Dirk at all. He had his refined post game and was still athletic enough to isolate at the 3pt line and drive against Bosh (who was a pretty good athlete back then) in the final seconds of game 2, or blow by Haslem at the end of game 4.
I also know Dirk was considering to team up with other superstars and be a 2nd/3rd option before the 2010/11 season. Didn't want to claim the same about 06. Played it safe basically.
And with Kidd, I wanted at least solid shooting from my point guard. In his early Nets years, he just sucked from three. In 06/07 he hit 34% in the regular season and 42% in the playoffs. And it's not like he was washed up or anything, in his 12 playoff games he averaged 14/11/11. That's just nasty.
But you definitely have a point regarding athleticism.
[QUOTE=dr.hee]I took 2011 Dirk because with the 06 version, opponents could've gone all Don Nelson on me and put smaller players on him. Maybe prime Pippen/Rodman/Bowen/Battier etc. The Warriors succeeded that way in 07, so I'd have a hard time arguing against this approach to be a potential problem. In 2011, it didn't matter who guarded Dirk at all. He had his refined post game and was still athletic enough to isolate at the 3pt line and drive against Bosh (who was a pretty good athlete back then) in the final seconds of game 2, or blow by Haslem at the end of game 4.
I also know Dirk was considering to team up with other superstars and be a 2nd/3rd option before the 2010/11 season. Didn't want to claim the same about 06. Played it safe basically.
And with Kidd, I wanted at least solid shooting from my point guard. In his early Nets years, he just sucked from three. In 06/07 he hit 34% in the regular season and 42% in the playoffs. And it's not like he was washed up or anything, in his 12 playoff games he averaged 14/11/11. That's just nasty.
But you definitely have a point regarding athleticism.[/QUOTE]
Iv missed maybe 30 dirk games in his whole career. 2006 dirk could absolutely eat those little guys alive(he killed Bowen and Marion during that playoff run) the only guy who came close to guarding him was Bennett Salvatore and Dan Williams. Like I said I understand 2011 dirk for the offense though. As for Kidd I'd probably take 99 Kidd. 17/11/7 on 44/37 and as athletic as anyone to ever play the point before westbrook.
Alright my bro is using his laptop again so I'm going to make this quick. Will get more in-depth when he give me a chance again. Ill post my 6 picks
Kshutts
Dr. Hee
Wally
Legends
Dimitri
Marchesck
I thought about boutpractice as well but he hasn't been active in the voting process so I don't feel comfortable voting someone in the playoffs who isn't posting, but I do like the uniqueness of his team and they could really play some dominate ball denial for teams that run a lot of postups. He may have issues with presses tho because he doesn't have that one dominate ball handler to split the double and to keep the dribble alive. If he starts posting again and someone else is slacking I may switch him for the slacker. Same goes for Kizzle and barkley. We need the active people to make the playoffs or else it will completely die
As far as Kizzle and Barkley I love both teams too and think they are more then worthy of making the playoffs but I have issues with spacing and possible chemistry issues. I know barkely says he has guys with high percentages but I just don't see enough perimeter shooting in my mind really. Magic had a slow release that wouldn't fly with the increased defenseive pressure at the 3-point line that happens today. Penny wasn't great, same as PG. I see both a streaky. Miller and battier wont get enough mins. Barkley and AD to a lesser extent can hit the midrange but its not quite enough. A stretch big would be nice here. BTW buddy its to late to do trades. This is past the trade deadline. If we were tho I'd want to make it Miller and AD for Dave d and Dumars or it would be a no.
I think people have been sleeping on Dimitris team too. It's pretty nice IMO. weakest defender in his starting lineup is Stockton and the guy was hard as nails and gritty so he wasn't even bad. Spacing in the starting lineup is a little weak but shooters allover and Boris was a nice pickup.
As far as MVP McAdoo and pistons rodman goes it's 2 issues. I wouldn't have enough touches for MVP McAdoo unless he played on the bench and the consensus was that he wouldn't be fitting well there. The 2nd issue is that pistons rodman was a perimeter defender and not the dominate rebounder he became on the bulls while bulls rodman was a post defender and board gobbler. He just fits more for what I'm lookin for.
As far as moncrief goes hes a really good play maker. ne of the best from the guard position ever. Ask marchesk his title is El sid fan, which is Moncriefs nickname. Its actually why thought of Moncrief and drafted him early because I was afraid he was going to draft him soon.
One thing that happened with this draft is people took the team fit thing to heart. In the older ones it was more of a situation where role didn't matter and picking a team like Kizzles was fine because it was more based around having good personality mix. Essentially it was assumed every player would accept there role for the most part unless there was proof they wouldn't and making sure to not have too many hotheads on the same team. I've decided that I will go with the consensus tho because it makes it a better draft overall and is a better test of team building abilities.
Any drafter from the old draft that died that wants to put a team up in this one can join the play in rounds as an alt if a team in this draft isn't posting or involved themselves. Or if we get 4 drafters from the other drafter we can have 2 more on each side of the bracket and do a little longer play in round thing.
As I said I will give my analysis of every team. I'm a big fan of Kshutts team and Dr. Hee off the top of my head. probably my two favorite besides mine lol. I want to ask is Bowen really ur shooting guard tho? I would put tmac there and Bowen @ small forward. Lets tmac use his height advantage over the smaller guards more.
[QUOTE=Rizko]
As far as Kizzle and Barkley I love both teams too and think they are more then worthy of making the playoffs but I have issues with spacing and possible chemistry issues. I know barkely says he has guys with high percentages but I just don't see enough perimeter shooting in my mind really. Magic had a slow release that wouldn't fly with the increased defenseive pressure at the 3-point line that happens today. Penny wasn't great, same as PG. I see both a streaky. Miller and battier wont get enough mins. Barkley and AD to a lesser extent can hit the midrange but its not quite enough. A stretch big would be nice here. BTW buddy its to late to do trades. This is past the trade deadline. If we were tho I'd want to make it Miller and AD for Dave d and Dumars or it would be a no.
[/QUOTE]
I know it was too late for trades, I was just having fun. Just wanna point out you don't mention my best 3 point shooter the late great Drazen Petrovic who was pure money, shooting 45% from 3. He'd help just a tad in the spacing department. As for Magic's 3, I feel he would still easily get it off from the swing pass out of a double team or a drive an kick where his man helped. Not asking him to hit pull ups off the dribble. Remember Magic often had a significant height advantage which helps negate his slow 3 point release and defenders generally gave Magic a little extra cushion on the perimeter fearing him getting into the lane which is another reason him getting his shot off wasn't an issue. If the game plan is to guard him tighter then that will open up his driving game which ultimately is better for us.
As for our hypothetical trade i'd offer miller and hardaway for dumars and a bag of skittles. couldn't trade AD, team is short on defenders as it is lol
[QUOTE=kshutts1]Finally reading breakdowns. Here are my thoughts:
[B]Team Wally.[/B] Wow. Fabulous breakdown, but arguably a better team. Potential favorite. I also think that you are the only team to build a fully more current team, as in focused on the back court. Though I have not gone through all yet, so maybe I'm wrong. But that definitely jumped out at me.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks. Yeah I really took into consideration the rules, which I think will come in handy in the playoffs round.
[QUOTE=dr.hee]Alright, here are my thoughts...
[B][U]Team Wally[/U][/B]
The West/Kawhi/Lebron backcourt is just killing it. Nice. Pairing them up with a great scoring big man is also a good idea, although I'm not entirely sold on two of them in the starting lineup. Instead of Ewing, a decent defensive center would'v maybe been even better imo. Or go with him at the 5 and a hustle forward instead of Malone.
Maybe like...
West
Kawhi
Lebron
Oakley
Ewing
or...
West
Kawhi
Lebron
Malone
Noah
Your team is still very good and balanced, but with West/Lebron starting and Parker coming off the bench one great post scorer would've been enough imo looking at ball distribution. Besides that, I really like your bench choices of Horry and past prime Mourning as a backup. Very smart. The Hondo pick is a matter of taste I guess. Personally, I would've taken a 3&D guy instead probably, but it's hard to argue against him providing great defense. Spacing is still solid if we assume West is adapting to the 3pt line, which I have no doubt about.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah Ewing wasn't in my original plan, he really fell into my hands. However I felt he isn't one of those guys that needed to put up 20 shots a game, despite being tasked to do that, I think it was more by need than by choice. Ideally I think he's a 3rd option in a draft like this. He's my 4th option, but I think with Bron/West as my 1/2, Ewing can get involved abit more than your typical 4th option. Think something like 17ppg off dump-offs, kick outs, offensive rebounds, and the occasional post-up when he plays with the 2nd unit.
[QUOTE=barkleynash]
[B]Team Wally:[/B] Very solid top to bottom, I hope Zo and Mailman fight every other practice but they'll probably be weight room buddies... Also you're not allowed to put Lebron or Kawhi on Magic if we match up, only Jerry West, Hondo and Parker are allowed, that's a rule! And please trade me my man crush Kawhi for PG or Miller damn you!
[/QUOTE]
Don't forget LeBron haha. Had I landed DRob instead of Ewing my team would be the all-bodybuilding team lol.
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]Iv missed maybe 30 dirk games in his whole career. 2006 dirk could absolutely eat those little guys alive(he killed Bowen and Marion during that playoff run) the only guy who came close to guarding him was Bennett Salvatore and Dan Williams. Like I said I understand 2011 dirk for the offense though. As for Kidd I'd probably take 99 Kidd. 17/11/7 on 44/37 and as athletic as anyone to ever play the point before westbrook.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, agree on younger Kidd being a great option as well. It's just that I wanted to play it safe considering his shaky shooting. 99 Kidd shot 37% from three in the regular season, but played only 50 games and in the playoffs he was back to his usual shitty percentages, hitting only 25% from three.
I mean his 3pt averages until 06/07 are 33.2% (regular season) and 27.3% (playoffs). Then from 06/07 to 10/11 he was a solid 38-40% shooter from three . So basically, with the 98/99 version voters could say it's a small sample outlier and in the playoffs he showed his lack of consistent shooting.
With 06/07, I'm taking a less athletic version (still good enough to hold his own though, dude sdefended everybody at age 37), but better outside shooting and more experience. I mean he averaged a triple double in the playoffs, so he wasn't a shell of himself. For a total high paced style of team, your 98/99 pick would've been awesome, but I wanted to go with experience instead.
My breakdown of the teams (my votes will be below)
- Team Kizzle
I think it was wise to put Oscar and Clyde back in the starting lineup, good year of Wilt that you picked too, where he didn't take too many shots. My main concern is the ball usage of your players - Clyde and Oscar are too similar on offense, Rick Barry was a point-forward type, and even Wilt, while not taking many shots, still does his work with the ball in his hands. Spacing improves a little with Laimbeer in the lineup, but is still quite poor. Rick Barry is solid, but never remembered him as a spot-up kinda guy. With a starting lineup like this I'd expect more shooters off the bench, but KJ and Drexler were both below average. And I don't see rotations. Is Moses gonna play 10mpg? But that talent level tho.
- Team Barkleynash
Nice run and gun team. I personally wouldve went with Reggie in the starting lineup instead of Petrovic who is more accustomed to working with the ball in his hands. Curious to know if you thought about younger Philly Chuck instead of MVP Chuck so you could've kept prime Shaq.
- Team Rizko
Nice all around team, very complete. Was shocked when you went CP3 instead of Isiah tho, I feel he would've been perfect for the team. Feisty as CP3 is, Isiah was one of the best floor generals ever, and would've been perfect for KD and Kareem who were quieter personalities. Also slightly confused with having Sid, Cooper AND Dumars. Not completely similar i know, but i would have preferred a bigger backup SF and a PG that can change the pace of the game a little.
- Team Marchesk
Shocked when you did that Magic trade, because I really felt you were the clear cut favourite at that time. Kobe/Isiah brings a different dynamic to the team, cant deny the talent level, but sometimes too much alpha can hurt. I think Duncan would end up being the 4th option behind 3 perimeter/wing players on a team like this, as opposed to being 1a/b originally which i think would've made your team alot more balanced. 28mpg from Horace Grant is interesting too. He's solid but idk about him going up against the big names more than half the game.
- Team boutpractice
Love the Sabonis pick. Really wanted him on my squad, would've been perfect. Concept of your team is great, but there are some gaps. Assuming Pippen guards the opposing PG, wing defense in your starting 5 is suspect. VC is a bit of a blackhole too who might affect the freeflowing offense you're trying to run. Your bigs rotation I don't like much. Sabas and Gilmore 22mpg? Would've been better off getting 2 better starters that can set the tone and have 2 guys more used to coming off the bench and playing lesser minutes. You have 4 guys very close on the talent level, and none of which able to slide down to SF.
- Team kshutts
I really really want to like this team. I love the Nash/TMac/Russell/KG combo. But prime Elgin Baylor and Pettit off the bench??? And then drafting Marc Gasol was a big question mark. I would've went with a spot up shooter and throw more minutes to Pettit at 5 and Baylor at 4 in small ball situations. I felt that core you had could've really been something. And wth? KG just 26mpg?!
- Team legends
Can't go against MJ lol. Love the Billups/MJ/McHale/DRob dynamic. But Pierce spoils it a little for me, a 3&D guy would've been perfect. Backup wings are lacking too. Bobby Jones can't play 3 in the modern day, I wouldve just kept 2 of the 3 in Jones/Kemp/Mutumbo. Also, not sure how GP/Kemp feels about a reserve role, esp on the year they made the finals. Mutumbo I can see it with his chill personality. I don't like the coaching choice tho, but at this point it will do.
- Team dr.hee
I like the starting 5, tho not alot of talent. I think your team does lack SOME creativity off the bounce, but it's not a major issue at all. Dirk/Hakeem can do their thang on the high post, and Kidd/Marion can have some pick and roll action. I would've made the bench a little different tho. I felt you needed more size behind Hakeem/Dirk which would've made your team more dynamic.
- Team demitri
I think this is the least talented team. Stockton isn't the best fit too, he doesn't have the right pieces to work with. And does that take DWade off the ball? Bench is sweet tho. I would've had a better backup for Artest who might be a little inconsistent to be a full time starter.
The 6 teams I vote for are (in no order):
Team Kizzle
Team Barkleynash
Team Rizko
Team Marchesk
Team kshutts
Team legends
Really close but I had to leave dr.hee out over Kizzle and kshutts. I think they are more of a matchup team who will thrive in 1 on 1 matchups than from a broad perspective overall. Confident he'll still make the playoffs tho.
As for Bowen being my starting SG and TMac being SF, I truly don't think it matters. The best wing defender on the other team will guard TMac, regardless of size, while the worst will guard Bowen. And the opposite is true in terms of my matchups.
As for Pettit, yeah, I agree I messed up there in terms of fit. That said, though, I'm confident that Pettit is the best player coming off the bench in the entire league. He'll just wreak havoc. Baylor, too. And for those reasons, that's why I put KG at only 26 minutes. Pettit truly is incredible. Once I had him, I had to make room for him.
Marc Gasol.. why an interesting pick? No ego, elite passing and defense, can hit open jumpers... I think he's a terrific glue guy and, equally importantly, he added some necessary bulk to my team, as all my post players were about 220 pounds before him.
PG: Stockton
SG: Wade
SF: Artest
PF: Sheed
C: Walton
Manu
Curry
Diaw
Thurmond
Phil Jackson
My team is all focused on running Phil's triangle. With Walton in the post and Wade slashing to the rim, this team will be unstoppable in the half court, and can also be a beast in transition/small ball offense, with a lineup of Curry, Wade, Manu, Diaw and Sheed for running and gunning. We can also slow down and tear you apart in the half court with Stockton, Wade, Artest, Sheed and Walton. If we need to bully you in the paint, Curry, Manu, Artest, Thurmond and Walton will destroy you under the boards. Stockton, who IMO is the greatest passer of all time (see assist record), can initiate the offense by tossing it in to Walton. We then proceed with either Manu, Wade or Artest cutting to the rim. If everything else fails Wade or Walton can iso in the post or in the mid-range and we can still get a good shot. My centerpieces (Walton, Wade, Stockton) are surrounded by shooters (Curry, Manu, Sheed, Diaw) which will help space the floor. Wade will not need to play 40+ minutes a night because of my solid depth at the guard position. The same goes for Walton, as Thurmond can produce solid minutes at C allowing Walton to be more aggressive in his minutes. I have great defenders in Stockton, Wade, Artest, Walton and Thurmond, and decent/good defenders in Manu, Diaw, and Sheed. Curry's defensive woes are not a huge issue because of the solid pieces surrounding him, masking his sub-par defense and giving him more energy for the offensive side, where he really flourishes.
Overall my team is solid all-around and can beat you by suffocating you defensively, running you ragged in transition, or beating you to pieces in the half-court, where we flourish the most.
[quote=wally_world]My breakdown of the teams (my votes will be below)
- Team Rizko
Nice all around team, very complete. Was shocked when you went CP3 instead of Isiah tho, I feel he would've been perfect for the team. Feisty as CP3 is, Isiah was one of the best floor generals ever, and would've been perfect for KD and Kareem who were quieter personalities. Also slightly confused with having Sid, Cooper AND Dumars. Not completely similar i know, but i would have preferred a bigger backup SF and a PG that can change the pace of the game a little.[/quote]
As far as isiah vs CP3 you can basically say the same things about CP as isiah. The main difference between the two is current cp3 is whiny flopper (not really the case in 08 when I actually liked him a lot) and Isiah was an even stronger vocal leader. CP3s good enough tho. If I had had more Rodmans I would have gone with Isiah. I was also really thinking about Kidd too. I just know enough about cp3 to be confident in taking that version. Also I like his range. Isiah did have a good long two but I just needed more IMO with Kareem still being he center piece.
Ill agree with you on the sid, dumars and cooper thing. I just wanted to layer my team with great defenders that can also create off the dribble without too much issue. Kinda like what the spurs do with Danny green and Kawhi but obviously taken a little further. I do agree I need a change of pace guard tho. If trading was stlll allowed I'd do Penny and Miller for Dumars probably like Barkleynash offered lol.
As far as Petrovic goes I forgot he was on your team lol. So no worries that's true. Like I said if someones not being active and I voted for them or someone else voted for them we can switch it out.
[QUOTE=Demitri98]PG: Stockton
SG: Wade
SF: Artest
PF: Sheed
C: Walton
Manu
Curry
Diaw
Thurmond
Phil Jackson
My team is all focused on running Phil's triangle. With Walton in the post and Wade slashing to the rim, this team will be unstoppable in the half court, and can also be a beast in transition/small ball offense, with a lineup of Curry, Wade, Manu, Diaw and Sheed for running and gunning. We can also slow down and tear you apart in the half court with Stockton, Wade, Artest, Sheed and Walton. If we need to bully you in the paint, Curry, Manu, Artest, Thurmond and Walton will destroy you under the boards. Stockton, who IMO is the greatest passer of all time (see assist record), can initiate the offense by tossing it in to Walton. We then proceed with either Manu, Wade or Artest cutting to the rim. If everything else fails Wade or Walton can iso in the post or in the mid-range and we can still get a good shot. My centerpieces (Walton, Wade, Stockton) are surrounded by shooters (Curry, Manu, Sheed, Diaw) which will help space the floor. Wade will not need to play 40+ minutes a night because of my solid depth at the guard position. The same goes for Walton, as Thurmond can produce solid minutes at C allowing Walton to be more aggressive in his minutes. I have great defenders in Stockton, Wade, Artest, Walton and Thurmond, and decent/good defenders in Manu, Diaw, and Sheed. Curry's defensive woes are not a huge issue because of the solid pieces surrounding him, masking his sub-par defense and giving him more energy for the offensive side, where he really flourishes.
Overall my team is solid all-around and can beat you by suffocating you defensively, running you ragged in transition, or beating you to pieces in the half-court, where we flourish the most.[/QUOTE]
One thing I would have done running the triangle is go with Mark Price over Stockton.
[QUOTE=Rizko]One thing I would have done running the triangle is go with Mark Price over Stockton.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe Terry Porter?
[QUOTE=dr.hee]Or maybe Terry Porter?[/QUOTE]
Good call. Forgot about him completely. Deff would be a good PG in the triangle. Hinrich would have been too.
Stock isn't horrible. Not like GP, Kidd or Rondo in the triangle lol but not great
[QUOTE=Rizko]Good call. Forgot about him completely. Deff would be a good PG in the triangle. Hinrich would have been too.
Stock isn't horrible. Not like GP, Kidd or[B] Rondo in the triangle[/B] lol but not great[/QUOTE]
Why not? Would be a very small triangle though :lol
[QUOTE=dr.hee]Why not? Would be a very small triangle though :lol[/QUOTE]
Yea deff. Big rondo fan but unless they invert the roles where Rondo plays the main ball handler and the sg plays the off guard role he just wont work.
Sorry knicks fans lol.
So, are we picking who we think are the best teams? Top 6 looks like it, right?
[QUOTE=wally_world]
- Team Barkleynash
Nice run and gun team. I personally wouldve went with Reggie in the starting lineup instead of Petrovic who is more accustomed to working with the ball in his hands. Curious to know if you thought about younger Philly Chuck instead of MVP Chuck so you could've kept prime Shaq.
[/QUOTE]
While playing for his national team Petrovic def had the ball a lot but he thrived off ball with the Nets with Kenny Anderson controlling the bulk of the action and Coleman getting lots of action too. I agree Reggie was better at off ball play and would've kept him as a starter had Petrovic not slid to me but he did and in my opinion Drazen was just a better all around player who could mix in his deadly outside shooting with crafty drives. Besides I could still use "old Miller" off the bench and in clutch situations (that mofo was clutch till the end of his career!)
As far as Shaq and Chuck I thought about the swap of ages but I'm more loyal to Charles and I wanted both of them to be really fast for Magic's fast break targets and Laker Shaq didn't run the floor nearly as well as Orlando Shaq. Also older Shaq beefed with teammates more than the younger keener version, while 93 Suns Barkley was just happy to have good teammates after his last few dismal years in Philly.
[QUOTE=Rizko]Good call. Forgot about him completely. Deff would be a good PG in the triangle. Hinrich would have been too.
Stock isn't horrible. Not like GP, Kidd or Rondo in the triangle lol but not great[/QUOTE]
Maybe I'm the one that doesn't know what the triangle is, but the Bulls in the later 90's had a super successful team built around the triangle offense, and none other than Ron Harper was their PG. Not a shooter. Jordan and Pippen were not shooters.
I may not know the specifics of the triangle, but it's not a 100% shooting requirement, that's for sure.
[QUOTE=kshutts1]Maybe I'm the one that doesn't know what the triangle is, but the Bulls in the later 90's had a super successful team built around the triangle offense, and none other than Ron Harper was their PG. Not a shooter. Jordan and Pippen were not shooters.
I may not know the specifics of the triangle, but it's not a 100% shooting requirement, that's for sure.[/QUOTE]
I never said anything about shooting. I was talking about ball dominance. I mean I said stock wasn't Ideal either but he was obviously a great shooter so idk where it came off like I was talking about shooting?
Kidd is his 2nd mavs term and 08 rondo would be good Triangle pgs because they can effect the game off ball but when I say kidd or rondo I mean the ones we generally think off. The ball handlers who create for the entire team.
The triangle is an offense that is designed so share the ball between the players on the perimeter so really u just need a lead guard who can effect the game off ball as well and an off guard who can create in a pinch. So a Price/dumars back court could work as well in the triangle as a harper Jordan and a kobe fish backcourt.
Stock will work better in the triangle then rondo gp or kid because he can at least hit the catch and shoot 3ball when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. I mean the other three can and be good cutters but they don't effect the game that much off the ball (or atleast the versions people think of when you say those names.)
[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]So, are we picking who we think are the best teams? Top 6 looks like it, right?[/QUOTE]
Yes
[QUOTE=barkleynash]
To address your Penny concern, I'm banking on the [B]Sophomore[/B] to be pumped about being his idol Magic Johnson's prot
[B]Team Rizko[/B]
I like the bigs up top, Kareem and McAdoo. You can even play them together, with McAdoo up high. Than you have tough enforcers surrounding them in the paint. I like the Durant/Coop combo at the swing spot. Both long and lanky, one a scorer and the other a defender. In the backcourt, you went for some defensive stoppers who could also score, in Sid and JD. And the hold it all together, Chris Paul.
[B]Team Marchesk[/B]
I'm not liking the Parish/Duncan combo. IMO you have the least athletic front line in the draft. But you have a very strong athletic perimeter. So I think that might even out things. Doc, Zeke and Kobe on the wings, that is super deadly. Spot up shooters is Peja and Ray (the seasons you picked them at least) and a nice back up PG in Mo Cheeks.
[B]Team Kshutts[/B]
No, goin from least to one of the most athletic front lines. Russell and KG in the defensive glass is just not fair. Of course, game gets close you might have some trouble dumping it down to them for a bucket. That's where Pettit comes in. McGrady and Baylor, I think you should start Baylor just because it's Elgin Baylor. Unless you're looking for that spark off the bench, but you already got Pettit getting his 25+. I just see Bowen as a liability as a starter at least. Nash will get everyone in their right places and than you have Kirch for offense/defense purposes.
[B]Team Dr. Hee[/B]
Dream, Dirk and Marion is a formidable front line. Though, I'd switch Marion to PF and Dirk to SF. Marion can play the Ralph Sampson role just 6 inches shorter. And with your backcourt, Kidd can run it up with Richmond and Marion. Ray is the most unusual pick in the whole draft. You picked a role player from the 70s. He'd fit well with Hakeem at PF and Dirk at Center. I like the Detlef and Vinnie picks.
[B]Team BarkleyNash[/B]
You have Barkley but no Nash? :biggums:
Shaq and Chuck would definitely work. Would be fun to watch too. PG can be Worthy on the break and Petro can be Scott on the wing. Shane and your version of Reggie seem to be spot up shooter off the bench. Unibrow will be your enegy guy to come in and back up Shaq and Charles. Penny is you do it all off the bench. One thing you are lacking, you have no small guys. If a team wants to go really small, you can't match them.
[B]Team Wally[/B]
I like the three head monster of Pat, Malone and Zo. Very tough down low. James and West is very good. I'm still not too sold on Leonard as a starter with Hondo on your team. Parker is a great back up. Horry will play his role.
[B]Team Boutpractice[/B]
Sabonis is a great pick, but not the year. How do you compare what he did overseas to NBA stats? Unless we go by his rookie stats the very next season for Portland? I would have picked him a couple of seasons earlier before he got hurt. Sampson was very special (like Sabonis) before he got hurt. Bird, Pippen and VC on the perimeter is nice. But Pippen as your starting PG? I like the Gilmore pick. Crawford is instant offense and Iggy for on ball D. But, like Team BarkleyNash, you can't go small. Jamal Crawford is your smallest player.
[B]Team Legends[/B]
Your frontline is very deep. You can't go wrong with any of those four on the floor. Especially Kemp and Robinson. I actually like Billups playing with Jordan, but that guy backing him up would be even better. :lol Payton can play the Pippen role. P-Dub and Bobby Jones is good.
[B]Team Demitri[/B]
I like the Blazer pairing of Walton and Sheed. DO they smoke weed after the games too? A Wade and Stockton backcourt? I can see Sheed running the lanes like Malone, though not as much. I can comment on Curry because it's probably this season or last season? Same player. Will hit an open shot, so don't leave him open. Can't comment on the others. Pacers Artest was different from Lakers Artest. 05 Manu is different from 12 Manu? 06 Diaw is different from 14 Diaw, ect.
[B]My top six, in no order:[/B]
BarkleyNash
Legends
Marchesk
Rizko
Kshutts
Wally
[QUOTE=Rizko]I never said anything about shooting. I was talking about ball dominance. I mean I said stock wasn't Ideal either but he was obviously a great shooter so idk where it came off like I was talking about shooting?
Kidd is his 2nd mavs term and 08 rondo would be good Triangle pgs because they can effect the game off ball but when I say kidd or rondo I mean the ones we generally think off. The ball handlers who create for the entire team.
The triangle is an offense that is designed so share the ball between the players on the perimeter so really u just need a lead guard who can effect the game off ball as well and an off guard who can create in a pinch. So a Price/dumars back court could work as well in the triangle as a harper Jordan and a kobe fish backcourt.
Stock will work better in the triangle then rondo gp or kid because he can at least hit the catch and shoot 3ball when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. I mean the other three can and be good cutters but they don't effect the game that much off the ball (or atleast the versions people think of when you say those names.)[/QUOTE]
You're right, I must have misunderstood you. My bad.
My top 6, excluding myself, in no order:
Kizzle
Nash
Rizko
Wally
Dr.Hee
Marchesk
I edited to take out Demitri and put in Marchesk
Of those 6, I think BarkleyNash is the worst, no offense. Just don't have enough size to contend with most teams on D. Granted, your team is built around offense, and it will be nasty, but I'm just not sure there will be enough D. You seem to have built a Miami Heat roster, plus Shaq. And obviously that team won championships, it will be very interested to see how that team dynamic works against actual pivot players.
[QUOTE=kshutts1]Of those 6, I think BarkleyNash is the worst, no offense. Just don't have enough size to contend with most teams on D. Granted, your team is built around offense, and it will be nasty, but I'm just not sure there will be enough D. You seem to have built a Miami Heat roster, plus Shaq. And obviously that team won championships, it will be very interested to see how that team dynamic works against actual pivot players.[/QUOTE]
It was down to this team and Dr. Hee. But you just can't overlook Shaq, Barkley and Magic. Plus, you can put Magic at PF/SF, he is 6'9.
I know I don't choose the matchups, but...
BarkleyNash v Marchesk (matchup chosen because both teams lack size relative to others):
I think this is one of the few matchups where Doc is rendered... not useless, but I'd rather play Peja. Doc excels in the open court, and BN is the superior rebounding team, thus limiting open court looks for Marchesk.
Input Peja instead of Doc, have Doc run the second unit (now that I say that I think this should be your full time plan), and BN has no hope of stopping Kobe, Isiah or Peja.
Shaq and Duncan will be a wash, but Marchesk wins on the perimeter.
Kizzle v Rizko (highest concentration of older players):
I'm not sure who guards Durant here, and guards him well. Similarly, who guards Barry? Will be a pretty epic matchup between those two.
Can Chris Paul slow down and/or contain Frazier and KJ? I'm not worried about Paul winning the game by scoring, but he will need to defend really good players.
Two really well built teams going at it. Hard to choose a winner. Did you two actually build teams to stop the other? Just so even.
I'm saying Kizzle only because I've maintained, from day 1, that he had the most talented roster. If any coach can pull it off it's Daly.
Wally v Dr.Hee (last two standing):
Let's just get this out of the way... Dream will terrorize Wally, while Lebron will be somewhat negated by Marion guarding him.
Aside from the respective first overall picks, Wally's team is superior. I told Dr.Hee before that I questioned his perimeter shot creation, and (I didn't plan this) Wally's team is really built to show that weakness. Lebron, Leonard, West, Hondo? Are you kidding me with that perimeter D? The burden will fall to Dirk and Hakeem to create offense for everyone else, and it can work.. that coach in particular has made it work... but I just don't see it happening consistently.
If anyone else has an input on these matchups, or arguments, or just different matchups, I'd love to hear it. Now that our toys are done, I want to play with them!
[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]It was down to this team and Dr. Hee. But you just can't overlook Shaq, Barkley and Magic. Plus, you can put Magic at PF/SF, he is 6'9.[/QUOTE]
You can, and against MY team it would likely work. I'd probably get destroyed by that particular roster.
But against most teams, with Chuck, Magic, and Davis being the biggest players after Shaq.. that just doesn't stack up well against anyone outside my team and Marchesk.
[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]
[B]Team Kshutts[/B]
No, goin from least to one of the most athletic front lines. Russell and KG in the defensive glass is just not fair. Of course, game gets close you might have some trouble dumping it down to them for a bucket. That's where Pettit comes in. McGrady and Baylor, I think you should start Baylor just because it's Elgin Baylor. Unless you're looking for that spark off the bench, but you already got Pettit getting his 25+. I just see Bowen as a liability as a starter at least. Nash will get everyone in their right places and than you have Kirch for offense/defense purposes.[/QUOTE]
Just saw this. Bowen starting because of defense. I already have enough offense in the starting lineup.
Baylor not starting over TMac because TMac's offensive game is, in my opinion, a better fit for my team than Baylor's. I prefer the shooting that TMac brings, particularly from 3.
Baylor and Pettit will come off the bench as "change of pace/style" go-to scorers, with total green lights.
And if the game gets close, and I need a bucket, I'm likely running with Nash, TMac, Baylor, Pettit, KG. Hopefully I can do O/D substitutions, though, because KG is the only great defender of the group.
I'd be happy to do breakdowns if the matchups are determined.
:cheers:
Lets put teams from draft 2 in here too?
[QUOTE=iamgine]Lets put teams from draft 2 in here too?[/QUOTE]
Or make a new thread with the surviving 6 teams? Then hash it out who's the Pimp Daddy of all Pimped-out teams. :hammerhead:
Just for some clarification, Wade and Stockton can play equal ball-handling duties, as both are acceptable off-ball and on-ball players. Phil is the ultimate ego-tamer and will make sure of this. Artest and Sheed aren't ball-hogging guys are both play off ball the majority of the time. Walton is great either with or without the ball and is willing to adapt, though he will get plenty of touches in the post with the triangle.
As for the reason I took Stockton for the triangle, I chose him because he's (imo) the highest IQ player of all time, and could learn the triangle and run it effectively quite easily. Stockton in the triangle is just not fair.
Alright, my picks in no order:
Rizko
Legends
Wally
Barkleynash
Kshutts
Boutpractice
Bumpski.
I'm gonna give a day longer but after that practice is gone. I doubt he care because I've seen him post in other threads but just throwin it out there. People who voted for him can change there vote. We can either do the playoff matchup or we can take the teams and just vote for the best if people don't want to put the commitment into it (which seems to be going that way)