wall&beal vs kyrie&waters

[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]The best post isn't the one that suggest Kyrie is a better playmaker than Wall. Irving has like 12 doubles doubles for his career, John Wall had 29 last year. 26 his rookie season.

8.3, 8, 7.6, 8.8 vs 5.4, 5.9, 6.1 is how there assists shake out. Wall kills Irving in the eye test too. Irving is deff more of a scoring guard. No idea how somebody could think Irving was the better playmaker. You can forget the shitty team thing too considering most NBA players have inflated numbers playing on lottery teams :confusedshrug:

Wall/Beal for me but I think Irving is pretty overrated. Already made the playoffs and had better individual seasons. Don't see any other reason to go in the other direction. Now Irving is in competition for being the 2nd best player on his team going forward, Waiters what like 4th? 5th? Hard to compare them given what Wall/Beal are going to be asked to do.[/QUOTE]


What about last year? Dion was either the number one guy on offense or the number two depending on if Kyrie was in or not.

[QUOTE=DukeDelonte13]What about last year? Dion was either the number one guy on offense or the number two depending on if Kyrie was in or not.[/QUOTE]

Yeah last year was fine. Beal was better than Waiters and Wall was better than Kyrie. The Wizards had a better roster but obviously Wall/Beal were a huge part in them winning 44 games which makes there seasons that much better in comparisons to Waiters/Irving. I don't think it was by an absurd amount anything.

Going forward I don't see how you compare them for the first year or two until things shake out. Cleveland is stacked. LeBron than Love/Irving. Beal would be in the exact same situation if they swapped place but the fact is he'll have a bigger role next season, more defensive attention while Waiters just gets to play off 3 other All-Stars. Wall is the LeBron of the Wizards, Irving gets to play off LeBron/Love.

Head to head stats make no sense because according to that logic Kyrie>Westbrook.

some guys just play better against the other, doesnt always mean theyre better

2 on 2...I take Kyrie and Waiters. Wall and Beal can't shoot for nothing when they have someone in their face. A lot easy for Wall and Beal to talk shit when they had Ariza, Nene, and Gortat while Cavs had Alonzo Gee, Thompson, and Spencer Hawes or Tyler Zeller playing center. If you had them switch teams I bet Kyrie and Waiters would had done much better with the sqaud Wall and Beal was running with.

[QUOTE=DukeDelonte13]What about last year? Dion was either the number one guy on offense or the number two depending on if Kyrie was in or not.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't waste my time talking to nugs fan. he has been a cavs hater since they won the lottery this last year. hell he prolly watched 2 cavs games total last year.

[QUOTE=Cocaine80s]Head to head stats make no sense because according to that logic Kyrie>Westbrook.

some guys just play better against the other, doesnt always mean theyre better[/QUOTE]
They make perfect sense when someone is trying to make an argument that one is so much better due simply to defense. I'm sorry, but you don't average 25+ on 50/48/94 with 7 assists on a great defender, even over a five game sampling. Wall's defense is overrated. Hell, Westbrook's defense is overrated, too... for the same reason. He's long and athletic, so people automatically assume he's a lockdown defender.

Neither are special players defensively.