I'll take the guy who was better than Kareem at his absolute peak. Only Wilt, Shaq, and Jordan are definitively better at their peaks. Sabonis was really good though, but still 2-3 tiers below a peak Walton.
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I'll take the guy who was better than Kareem at his absolute peak. Only Wilt, Shaq, and Jordan are definitively better at their peaks. Sabonis was really good though, but still 2-3 tiers below a peak Walton.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]You asked me, "based on what?"
I responded by what we KNOW.
Show us a peak Sabonis dominating someone of the calibre of a peak David Robinson.
Was Sabonis an outstanding NBA center? [B]Yes, even a well past his peak Arvydas[/B] played well in his short NBA career. But there are those here who would have us believe that he was a Top-10 center of all-time. I just don't have ANY evidence to support that.[/QUOTE]
When we're talking about Wilt, there's specific excuses to get Wilt off the hook for EVERY single postseason failure. But for Sabonis, he simply just wasn't that good past his prime :oldlol:
[quote]
[QUOTE=oarabbus]When we're talking about Wilt, there's specific excuses to get Wilt off the hook for EVERY single postseason failure. But for Sabonis, he simply just wasn't that good past his prime :oldlol:
Anyway, Sabonis was one awesome bastard.
Boss:pimp:[/QUOTE]
Excellent!:applause:
Sabonis must've been one of the most hated basketball players ever in Europe.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N1fbNAPeB4[/url]
Here the Croatian commentator calls him "well known scumbag, enemy of the sport" numerous times. :roll: When he is out of the game and sits on the bench the commentator also notes that Sabonis shouldn't even be allowed in the arena, not only on the court.
I used to hate Sabonis so much for shitting on my team over and over. But he was an amazing player.
Walton was special, but come on...
[QUOTE=iznogood]Excellent!:applause:
Sabonis must've been one of the most hated basketball players ever in Europe.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N1fbNAPeB4[/url]
Here the Croatian commentator calls him "well known scumbag, enemy of the sport" numerous times. :roll: When he is out of the game and sits on the bench the commentator also notes that Sabonis shouldn't even be allowed in the arena, not only on the court.
I used to hate Sabonis so much for shitting on my team over and over. But he was an amazing player.[/QUOTE]
In Croatia, no doubt. After plays like this, every opposing player becomes hated. In Europe, though, I think that's exaggerated, I don't remember Sabonis ever being hated all over the continent for any reason.
Maybe I was wrong saying he was hated all over Europe. But he was very hated across the whole Yugoslavia for sure. The rivalry against USSR was strong and Sabonis was both dominating and also pretty dirty (most of the players were these days), arguing referees and a lot of stuff I normally hate when a player on the opposing team does it. I think he also got some Shaq treatment from the refs in his Real Madrid years.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]To be honest, Sabonis is one of the most over-rated players on this forum.
I could come up with a LONG list of NBA centers, and in their primes, that I would take over a prime Arvydas.[/QUOTE]
A Sabonis with 0 mobility was guarding prime Shaq better than any center in the league. Shaq was having some truly awful games against Portland in the WCFs. Shaq wasn't doing much in game 7 until Sabonis got in foul trouble.
One game 23 points, one game 17 points.
Held Shaq to 17 points in game 7 of the WCFs in 2000. Sabonis fouled out at the 33:00 mark while Shaq played 47 minutes. Imagine if Sabonis had played more minutes. Sabonis was a problem.
Sabonis might have been the greatest center ever in Europe, but as far as the NBA is concerned, he was just a decent to good big man. A step up from guys like Rik Smits but many tiers below the likes of Shaq and Robinson.
And I watched him play.
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]A Sabonis with 0 mobility was guarding prime Shaq better than any center in the league. Shaq was having some truly awful games against Portland in the WCFs. Shaq wasn't doing much in game 7 until Sabonis got in foul trouble.
One game 23 points, one game 17 points.
Held Shaq to 17 points in game 7 of the WCFs in 2000. Sabonis fouled out at the 33:00 mark while Shaq played 47 minutes. Imagine if Sabonis had played more minutes. Sabonis was a problem.[/QUOTE]
Not sure what your point is here.
Sure Sabonis, and with a TON of help, gave Shaq some problems. Did he ever come close to outplaying him? Hell no.
BTW, in game one, Shaq also played 47 minutes, and Sabonis also played 33 minutes:
Sabonis: 0 points, 0-4 FG/FGA, 1 reb, 2 ast, 0 blks, 4 PFs.
Shaq: 41 points, 14-25 FG/FGA, 11 rebs, 7 ast, 5 blks, 2 PFs.
After that game, Portland pretty much went to a Hack-a-Shaq because they knew they had no way of handling Shaq.
And in their career matchups, Shaq had several 40+ point games against Sabonis, including a high of 46.
I realize that this was an old Sabonis, but we don't have any evidence to suggest that he could have ever outplayed Shaq. The two went at H2H in a total of 21 regular season games, and another 18 playoff games from 1996 to 2003, and Sabonis never even once outscored O'Neal. And the vast majority were one-sided beatdowns, and in virtually every major category.
In their very first meeting in 1996, Shaq poured in 41 points. And in their very first playoff H2H in 1997 O'Neal shelled him with 46 points.
I have absolutely no reason to believe that Sabonis was ever a better center than the many I already mentioned. Possibly more skilled in at least some areas? Sure. But not in enough for me to believe that he was a better center than any of them.
As a sidenote...unless my center is consistently hitting 35-40+% of his 3pt attempts, he is almost useless to me as a three-point shooter (maybe late in a close game.) The average center is going to shoot 50% from the floor, and the better one's are at .550-600+. And standing 25 ft out pretty much eliminates any offensive rebounding.
That is why I think Thon Maker's high school coach needs to have his head examined. He has a seven-footer who is shooting 29% from the arc. Instead of developing his post-up skills, he has the kid dribbling around from 30 feet.
[QUOTE=KungFuJoe]Sabonis might have been the greatest center ever in Europe, but as far as the NBA is concerned, he was just a decent to good big man. A step up from guys like Rik Smits but many tiers below the likes of Shaq and Robinson.
And I watched him play.[/QUOTE]
There you go.
:applause:
That has been my point all along.
As for Walton, and in his prime (short as it was), he was skilled an all-around center as there has ever been.
And again, we have footage, articles, and statistical breakdowns which prove that he was among the best to have ever played the center position.
From the limited footage we have of Sabonis, I don't see Walton having any problems with Arvydas.
Interesting too, that Walton easily outplayed the 7-2 Tommy Burleson in their historic meeting in the '73-74 NCAA semis. And Burleson was a solid player in his college career. He was a 19-13 .520 player, who had a 38 point tournament game. In fact, he was the ACC tournament MVP in both '73 and '74...and keep in mind that he had a teammate by the name of David Thompon. In their H2H in the semi's, Walton outscored Burleson, 29-20; outrebounded Burleson, 18-14; and outshot him from the floor, 13-21 to 9-20.
And before anyone scoffs at Burleson's NBA career, it was quickly cut short by injuries. Still, in his two playoff runs, he averaged 21-10 .542.
In any case, I don't have any reason to believe that Sabonis' height would have been a major problem for Walton.
Sabonis dunking all over Robinson: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06usV6451ik[/url]
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]There you go.
:applause:
That has been my point all along.[/QUOTE]
ignoring the fact that PRIME Sabonis didnt play in the NBA
Honestly, he looks like a bit of a monster; Lazerus clearly downplaying the guy to prop up his idols from the 60s, as per.
[QUOTE=Dresta]Honestly, he looks like a bit of a monster; Lazerus clearly downplaying the guy to prop up his idols from the 60s, as per.[/QUOTE]
And as usual, you provide zero research or knowledge in your response, ... as per.
[QUOTE=Dresta]Honestly, he looks like a bit of a monster; Lazerus clearly downplaying the guy to prop up his idols from the 60s, as per.[/QUOTE]
but why does he have these idols?
He's clearly not very old, since he still carries the child insecurities that force him to make these threads, if only to reinforce his obscure opinions about american centers playing in the NBA in the 60s...
there are a million things he could have chosen to try and find that identiy of his he struggles so much with. Why such a weird one? Why not just run with a favorite player, pokemon and music type like other kids do?
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]And as usual, you provide zero research or knowledge in your response, ... as per.[/QUOTE]
I just watched the video dipshit. Why would i provide research or knowledge when i neither know or care about Sabonis? All i know is that you're continuously plugging an agenda, and using selective statistics and correlations to do so - all your use of statistics is biased in favour of that agenda. Your bias is so instilled that you don't even notice it despite it being so blatantly obvious to everyone else on this site.
You are a tiresome bore who has some serious obsession with the 1960s, and can't make a single post not somehow marred by this idiotic nostalgia.
[QUOTE=Dresta]I just watched the video dipshit. Why would i provide research or knowledge when i neither know or care about Sabonis? All i know is that you're continuously plugging an agenda, and using selective statistics and correlations to do so - all your use of statistics is biased in favour of that agenda. Your bias is so instilled that you don't even notice it despite it being so blatantly obvious to everyone else on this site.
You are a tiresome bore who has some serious obsession with the 1960s, and can't make a single post not somehow marred by this idiotic nostalgia.[/QUOTE]
Coming from you this means nothing to me. You are a worthless POS poster who provides nothing to this forum.
[QUOTE=SpanishACB]but why does he have these idols?
He's clearly not very old, since he still carries the child insecurities that force him to make these threads, if only to reinforce his obscure opinions about american centers playing in the NBA in the 60s...
there are a million things he could have chosen to try and find that identiy of his he struggles so much with. Why such a weird one? Why not just run with a favorite player, pokemon and music type like other kids do?[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't know whether he's a kid with too much time on his hands or an old man who forgot to get himself a life of his own; i hope it's not the latter as that'd just be hella sad.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]And as usual, you provide zero research or knowledge in your response, ... as per.[/QUOTE]
Why not just admit your bias? Are you trying to deny that you're not biased towards the players from that era?
[QUOTE=ImKobe]Why not just admit your bias? Are you trying to deny that you're not biased towards the players from that era?[/QUOTE]
I have posted this before, but here it is again...
MY all-time list...
1. Wilt
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. KAJ
5. Russell
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Lebron
10. Bird
11. Moses
12. Hakeem
13. Dr. J
14. Oscar
15. West
Some of those are very close and interchangeable.
Does that look like a bias towards the 60's?
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Coming from you this means nothing to me. You are a worthless POS poster who provides nothing to this forum.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, what's a POS? I don't speak your whatever language it is you are babbling in.
Every time 90% of ISHs sees one of your dumbass threads they roll their eyes, trust me on that. It's funny because you take yourself so seriously and yet no one takes you seriously.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXhFq7QRC0I[/url]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/olympics/games/1988-09-28-USA-URS[/url]
if you choose to never press the first link then you might share the opinion of Lazarus here.
But that's called being ignorant by choice
[QUOTE=SpanishACB][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXhFq7QRC0I[/url]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/olympics/games/1988-09-28-USA-URS[/url]
if you choose to never press the first link then you might share the opinion of Lazarus here.
But that's called being ignorant by choice[/QUOTE]
I posted the full game here earlier...
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10778831&postcount=18[/url]
And there is absolutely no way that Sabonis outplayed Robinson in that game. Nor is that anywhere near a prime D-Rob either.
Maybe that wasn't a prime Sabonis, but YOU have NOT given me any footage of a Sabonis dominating a top-tier NBA center, either.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]but YOU have NOT given me any footage of a Sabonis dominating a top-tier NBA center, either.[/QUOTE]
give me footage of Wilt scoring 100 points
or wait, better! give me footage of Wilt dominating European competition! give me footage of Wilt dominating Joel Pryzbilla... there's none? Joel must've been better than Wilt then.
You're really something aren't you?
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]I have posted this before, but here it is again...
MY all-time list...
1. Wilt
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. KAJ
5. Russell
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Lebron
10. Bird
11. Moses
12. Hakeem
13. Dr. J
14. Oscar
15. West
Some of those are very close and interchangeable.
Does that look like a bias towards the 60's?[/QUOTE]
My bad, it's just an obscene bias towards your man-God Wilt. All the other elevating of 60s players you do is a consequence of incessant need to elevate a guy who scraped two rings and threw away several more in his choking ways. Hack-a-Wilt in the NBA finals would be pretty much a guaranteed chip. You always go on about Thurmond's awesome defense, but the best defense against Wilt in the finals was the FT line. Yet this guy is the greatest basketball player ever? :lol It's so pathetic dude.
Probably one of his illegitimate kids, aren't you?
Just now realised it's Lazeruss who started the thread :roll:
[QUOTE=SpanishACB]give me footage of Wilt scoring 100 points
or wait, better! give me footage of Wilt dominating European competition!
You're really something aren't you?[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak[/url]
There are clips of Russell, Thurmond, and Kareem, in there. as well as many other great players.
If you want an extended version...
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBX9ikNzEk[/url]
If you want FACTS...
[url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I9jddU8eNWrI8MMOPs_0l58WnjFNADvF4iIcu0Sfz7A/edit?pli=1#gid=0[/url]
And more...
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332617[/url]
and even more...
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain[/url]
As for his "European competition", you are right, we don't have any footage. BUT, we do have this...
[url]http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1338&dat=19740417&id=WJBYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XvgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7004,945936[/url]
and here was the quote:
[QUOTE]"No letting up." Red told them. "Beat them as badly as you can." Then, turning to Russell, he pointed Radivoje Korac - star of the Yugoslav team, and Europe's leading scorer at the time. "He scores once and I'll have your head. I mean it, once."
When the game began, the Yugoslavs went straight to Korac as soon as they got the ball. He made a spin move on Russell, turned, and Russell blocked the shot, starting a fast break the other way. Five times, the Yugoslavs got the ball, five times, Russell blocked a shot. The sixth time down, Korac caught the ball thirty feet from the basket and, with Russell racing at him, heaved a shot that hit the side of the backboard and bounced away as the crowd hooted. The Americans are now up by twenty.
"Russell," Red screamed, "I'm gonna kill you! You let the guy hit the backboard!"
The next time Korac caught the ball, he tried to go up-and-under Russell, who slammed the ball back at him so hard it hit him in the head and bounced away. Completely exasperated, Korac grabbed the ball, kicked it into the stands, and was promptly ejected[/QUOTE]
If Russell was wiping the floor with the best of that era, imagine the carnage that Chamberlain would have left there...
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS][url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak[/url]
There are clips of Russell, Thurmond, and Kareem, in there. as well as many other great players.
If you want an extended version...
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOBX9ikNzEk[/url]
If you want FACTS...
[url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I9jddU8eNWrI8MMOPs_0l58WnjFNADvF4iIcu0Sfz7A/edit?pli=1#gid=0[/url]
And more...
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332617[/url]
and even more...
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Wilt_Chamberlain[/url]
As for his "European competition", you are right, we don't have any footage. BUT, we do have this...
[url]http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1338&dat=19740417&id=WJBYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XvgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7004,945936[/url]
and here was the quote:
If Russell was wiping the floor with the best of that era, imagine the carnage that Chamberlain would have left there...[/QUOTE]
You take a couple of youtube highlights (that make ANYONE look good), take after the game quotes, that only prove the opinion of one man and go on making absolutist analysis. It's so silly.
Go back read my post, did I mention anything about Wilt vs Russell?
You're starting to sound like the Euroleague account gimmick, you reply with the same shit over and over and don't pay attention to what people are actually saying...
I made a point, between the lines, but that's not clear enough for that spoon feeding habit of yours so here it goes: one can only beat those he's put against.
Simple enough, unless you're some sort of meta idiot who struggles with engaging in a two way conversation.
You don't build arguments from someone's quote after a game. You can't judge careers off 5 minutes of youtube clips. And no one gives a **** at the end of the day. But if you're gonna quote someone, make a worthwhile repoly, not the same broken record bullshit we've come to expect from you.
You sound like some ****ing nerd theoryzing about Goku vs Superman based on quotes from the comics and analyzing how wide the kamekamehaa is on TV and then comparing it to Superman's laser beam. It's the perfect analogy for your stupid "look at this picture, Wilt was clearly the strongest center alive" or "read this quote from this guy who said this once and everyone knows when someone says something on TV it becomes a fact"... I don't know how you manage on a daily basis, really.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]
If Russell was wiping the floor with the best of that era, imagine the carnage that Chamberlain would have left there...[/QUOTE]
So wait, if the 76ers beat the Timberwolves and the Timberwolves beat the Cavalariers are the 76ers better than Lebron?
This school logic of yours, why don't you take it back to school?
Some players struggle or benefit against certain matchups. If Perkins stops Dwight but Frye scores 20 on Perkins it doesn't mean Frye is better than Dwight. Unless you don't watch games and realize the difference in the matchup. You would must likely run home showing us all this proof about Channing ****ing Frye being the best C in the league. That's the kind of thought process you follow.
[QUOTE=SpanishACB]So wait, if the 76ers beat the Timberwolves and the Timberwolves beat the Cavalariers are the 76ers better than Lebron?
This school logic of yours, why don't you take it back to school?
[B]Some players struggle or benefit against certain matchups. If Perkins stops Dwight but Frye scores 20 on Perkins it doesn't mean Frye is better than Dwight. Unless you don't watch games and realize the difference in the matchup. You would must likely run home showing us all this proof about Channing ****ing Frye being the best C in the league. That's the kind of thought process you follow.[/B][/QUOTE]
haha, that's pretty much the logic he uses in every single argument he makes, and then he whines about others not bringing up 'facts' as if his 'facts' were eternal truths.
[QUOTE=SpanishACB]You take a couple of youtube highlights (that make ANYONE look good), take after the game quotes, that only prove the opinion of one man and go on making absolutist analysis. It's so silly.[/QUOTE]
You're right. Next time he should upload full games saved to his hard drive. :biggums:
[QUOTE=SpanishACB]You don't build arguments from someone's quote after a game.[/QUOTE]
lol doe?
[QUOTE=SpanishACB] i edited it anyway but sure:
[url]http://www.nba.com/playoffs2002/Wher...n__Day_15.html[/url]
Quote: The lineage then continued to Arvydas Sabonis, who was the second greatest young player I ever saw after Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
he follows
Quote: He was 19 years old and played like a 7-3 Larry Bird, running like the wind, shooting threes, dribbling like Magic Johnson, rebounding like Wilt Chamberlain and blocking shots like Bill Russell.
regardless of the hyperbole, sabonis was 30/20 at the half in a european championship game against grown profesionals...
[/QUOTE]
...
[QUOTE=SpanishACB]You can't judge careers off 5 minutes of youtube clips.[/QUOTE]
lol doe?
[QUOTE=SpanishACB][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXhFq7QRC0I[/url]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/olympics/games/1988-09-28-USA-URS[/url]
if you choose to never press the first link then you might share the opinion of Lazarus here.
But that's called being ignorant by choice[/QUOTE]
You say we can't take clips or quotes, which you ended up doing anyway, to judge a player's career. Modern era players, understandable. Old school players, pretty much inevitable. So tell me, what makes you think Sabonis is a better player than Walton.
Remember, no YouTube clips or quotes are allowed. Enlighten us, oh wise one.
[QUOTE=YouGotServed]:rant :rant :rant :rant :rant [/QUOTE]
I posted a FULL game not a highlight video that only shows the good plays of a player, do you understand the difference?
i never said Sabonis was better, just added a quote about one talking about the other, I thought it was relevant for the thread. Apparently, not as relevant as Wilt vs Russell for some reason.
before getting all defensive and turning on bullshit mode I suggest you actually read posts, which I trust you can, and then, here comes the hard part, try to put sense to words and understand what's written, in that order.
[QUOTE=SpanishACB]that's a full game not a highlight video, do you understand the difference?
i never said Sabonis was better, just added a quote about one talking about the other, I thought it was relevant for the thread. Apparently, not as relevant as Wilt vs Russell for some reason.[/QUOTE]
No, I don't understand the difference. Please help me understand. You mean to tell me that's a full game!? I'm convinced. Let's ignore the other thousands of games these guys must have played.
I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with Lazerus. Just pointing out the double standards in your argument. He has a point. None of us watched them live, so we go by what we know.
The f*ck else have you done besides post a video and one quote then go on about how we can't use it to judge a player's entire career? :oldlol:
[QUOTE=YouGotServed]No, I don't understand the difference. Please help me understand. You mean to tell me that's a full game!? I'm convinced. Let's ignore the other thousands of games these guys must have played.
I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with Lazerus. Just pointing out the double standards in your argument. He has a point. None of us watched them live, so we go by what we know.
The f*ck else have you done besides post a video and one quote then go on about how we can't use it to judge a player's entire career? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
surely a person that couldn't cope with the first 3 pages of Dante's Inferno shouldn't be trying to play devil's advocate?
you don't understand how a higlight video is flawed in comparison to a full game specially when trying to judge how good a player could perform (very different from HOW HE USUALLY PERFORMS).
wanna defend an idiot? be my guest, but don't make simplistic comparisons just because you struggle with definitions. Of course we can only go by what we know, that's why our resident forum idiot should stop making imaginary arguments about how because A beat B and C beat A, C is better than B or when he goes into deep reflexion mode and tells us all about the difference in skill by judging 5 minutes of partial clips, highlights and a black and white photo; I didn't do any of this. I just tried to expose his weak agenda and argumentation.
What are you? his little brother or his alt account?
[QUOTE=SpanishACB]so you don't understand how a higlight video is much weaker analysis than an actual full game?[/QUOTE]
Both hold the same weight. I could post Donatas Motiejunas full game from yesterday and make him look like prime Hakeem. Atta boy, doe.
Again, since we didn't watch these guys play, we go by what we know. Anyway, we're done here. You're not making a case for Sabonis, just posted a quote you thought was relevant.
FTR, based on what I read from this thread, Walton gets my vote. Lazerus did a better job at presenting his side of the argument.
[QUOTE=SpanishACB]surely a person that couldn't cope with the first 3 pages of Dante's Inferno shouldn't be trying to play devil's advocate?
you don't understand how a higlight video is flawed in comparison to a full game specially when trying to judge how good a player could perform (very different from HOW HE USUALLY PERFORMS).
wanna defend an idiot? be my guest, but don't make simplistic comparisons just because you struggle with definitions. Of course we can only go by what we know, that's why our resident forum idiot should stop making imaginary arguments about how because A beat B and C beat A, C is better than B or when he goes into deep reflexion mode and tells us all about the difference in skill by judging 5 minutes of partial clips, highlights and a black and white photo; I didn't do any of this. I just tried to expose his weak agenda and argumentation.
What are you? his little brother or his alt account?[/QUOTE]
:violin:
Yada yada yada. This is nothing but a weak ass rant coming from someone who is cornered and can't back up his side of the argument.
Convince me Sabonis at his prime is a better player than Walton. Go on, old sport.
[B]I think Sabonis could've had a terrific NBA career if he had come earlier, but c'mon now...
Walton actually did it big at the highest level; he's a MVP, a FMVP (DPOY if the award was already given out too), showed amazing talent/intangibles while improving team and teammates, going against the likes of Kareem, young Moses, McAdoo, Cowens, Lanier, Unseld, Gilmore... And all of that before he was even 26; he could've very well been a top10 all-time player and top5 all-time center, if he had stayed healthy.
[/B]
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]I have posted this before, but here it is again...
MY all-time list...
1. Wilt
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. KAJ
5. Russell
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Lebron
10. Bird
11. Moses
12. Hakeem
13. Dr. J
14. Oscar
15. West
Some of those are very close and interchangeable.
Does that look like a bias towards the 60's?[/QUOTE]
[B]No, just a huge bias towards Wilt :lol And what comes along with it...[/B]
[QUOTE]"No letting up." Red told them. "Beat them as badly as you can." Then, turning to Russell, he pointed Radivoje Korac - star of the Yugoslav team, and Europe's leading scorer at the time. "He scores once and I'll have your head. I mean it, once."
When the game began, the Yugoslavs went straight to Korac as soon as they got the ball. He made a spin move on Russell, turned, and Russell blocked the shot, starting a fast break the other way. Five times, the Yugoslavs got the ball, five times, Russell blocked a shot. The sixth time down, Korac caught the ball thirty feet from the basket and, with Russell racing at him, heaved a shot that hit the side of the backboard and bounced away as the crowd hooted. The Americans are now up by twenty.
"Russell," Red screamed, "I'm gonna kill you! You let the guy hit the backboard!"
The next time Korac caught the ball, he tried to go up-and-under Russell, who slammed the ball back at him so hard it hit him in the head and bounced away. Completely exasperated, Korac grabbed the ball, kicked it into the stands, and was promptly ejected [/QUOTE]
I really want to know about the results of those games, esp. vs Yugoslavia.
[QUOTE=YouGotServed]
Convince me Sabonis at his prime is a better player than Walton. Go on, old sport.[/QUOTE]
Why? I don't need to convince you of anything. Specially of something I never claimed.
I can only try to convince you to try and read better, or become a more reflexive person if only to save me the effort of having to reply to these stupid posts of yours whilst you appear completely lost with words, and unable to understand a simple and literal paragraph.