Westbrook's dominance proves how easily MJ would be the best player today

[QUOTE=3ball]Jordan again[/QUOTE]
I swear you just posted this. Why delete it?

3ball what do you think Westbrook would average in the 90s? Say on the Rockets with Hakeem.

3ball, why so insecure? Who has argued that prime MJ would not be the best player if he played in 2015?

[QUOTE]You know it's almost as if "Greatest of all time" means he would be the best player in any era[/QUOTE]

:D

But Wilt would still suck in Today's game right? just trying to keep things straight.

It is funny though how every era thinks their best player would always mop the floor with whatever the current era was. Growing up in the 80's/90's all the old players from the 60's and 70's and early 80's were always talking about how the players of the 80/90's were soft. Now these old ass players from the 80's and 90's are doing the same thing.

Are you people serious? Michael Jordan would crush today's league. He dunked more than anyone in the hardest era to dunk. Midrange game on a thousand, and if he came up in this era he would obviously practice more threes.

FACT: at his peak, MJ in today's game would average more than 45 points.
FACT: rookie MJ would win MVP if he was drafted this season.
FACT: MJ would win the scoring title every year he spent in the league.
FACT: MJ would shoot at least 45% on three-point shots in today's game.

[QUOTE=Prometheus]

FACT: at his peak, MJ in today's game would average more than 40 points.
FACT: rookie MJ would win MVP if he was drafted this season.
FACT: MJ would win the scoring title every year he spent in the league.

[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_dunks_on_Ostertag_47f5b1aaa51700634363c3b17c56dcba.gif[/IMG]


[B]agreed, and keep in mind that ROOKIE jordan was superior to today's westbrook in every way[/B] - bigger, stronger, more athletic, more explosive, more skilled, much smarter..

rookie jordan made a million plays that westbrook isn't capable of doing PERIOD, and plenty more plays that were easy for jordan, but would be plays of the year for westbrook.

i'm talking about ROOKIE jordan..

also, 2nd three-peat jordan would destroy this westbrook as well, and not just through GOAT skill, GOAT smarts, and a vastly superior offensive repertoire.

2nd three-peat Jordan still had comparable hops coupled with [I]vastly[/I] superior power, which allowed him to make shots like the GIF above that Westbrook can't do on HIS BEST DAY.

If Curry played during Jordans era he would be GOAT because of the paint camping rules...No one would contest his 3's and he would make 90% of them...

ive come to the conclusion 3ball watches jordan highlight reels when he needs to jack off

[QUOTE=tgan3]

If Curry played during Jordans era he would be GOAT because of the paint camping rules...No one would contest his 3's and he would make 90% of them...

[/QUOTE]
Players in any era would contest Curry's 3-pointer the same way they contested Bird's, Miller's or Ellis', and the same way good 3-point shooters are contested today or in any era.

Curry would still hit several per game and crush it from that distance, but that's no different than today.

Now what Curry WOULDN'T be doing is a damn thing in the paint because unlike today, Curry wouldn't have anyone spreading the floor for him - so there would be no spacing and the paint would be packed like nothing he's ever seen.

Then obviously, it would be harder to get IN the paint to begin with, because defenders could be more physical, including hand-checking.. and once he got in the paint, hard fouls were standard, not suspensions like today..

Curry is already pretty fragile, so he would probably be [I]perpetually hurt[/I] in previous eras.. Oh wait..
.

Come on now guys. MJ would be a scrub in today`s league. He would polish Kirk Heindrich boots, at best. Worse stats than Spanuolis or whatever the Greek Freak`s called.

Human race has evolved a lot the last 10-20 years. This would absolutely not cut it today.

He would be crushed.

[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jH0STHtBN-A/UtuLWfU4kwI/AAAAAAAAAtA/mVx8poi_rMQ/s1600/Jordan+Air+Walk+Crop.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh133/andgar923/el_coxxx_2.gif[/IMG]

OTOH, I`ll give WB his props, I like his intencity and attack modus. A little better decisions making is all he lacks.

[QUOTE=OnFire]But Wilt would still suck in Today's game right? just trying to keep things straight.

It is funny though how every era thinks their best player would always mop the floor with whatever the current era was. Growing up in the 80's/90's all the old players from the 60's and 70's and early 80's were always talking about how the players of the 80/90's were soft. Now these old ass players from the 80's and 90's are doing the same thing.[/QUOTE]

Correct. It's a stupid human generational trend. Everyone wants to hope that they lived during the era of the best *whatever* to exist.
The best of whichever era would mop the floor with the average competition of whichever era.

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]Lol how about google what a "fact" is you stupid ****.[/QUOTE]
He was satirizing 3ball, man

3ball leavin ni99as shook and insecure once again.

Jordan in any era would dominate.

Fact

Westbrook at his best is still no where near Jordan as a rookie.

[QUOTE=SugarHill]He was satirizing 3ball, man[/QUOTE]
My b

3ball, I think Westbrook is a better in-game dunker than Jordan, what do you say?

Westbrook is a better human being than Michael Jordan

Durant is a better human being than Lebron.

[QUOTE=Le Shaqtus]I didn't think it was possible but you're going beyond the realms of human stupidity with every post, it's disappointing AND impressive.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure dudes like JT123, LeBronXRings, dubeta, Dragic4Life and the rest of the LeStans are trolling hard when the post retarded ass shit like that. I sincerely hope so at least, for their sake.

All of 3ball's posts reek of insecurity. It seems like whenever someone is being discussed on ISH as a contender for the position of best in the league at something he has to come in and use that as some kind of proof that Jordan would do better.

People have been talking about Westbrook's insane athleticism so 3ball has to come in and talk about how that's proof of Jordan's athletic superiority and how that must mean that he'd dominate today's league. No one said anything to the contrary but he has this constant need to defend his idol from imaginary attacks.

Prime/peak MJ combined the very best of the Lebron/Kobe/Wade trio of great perimeter players the past decade plus. Killer(imo superior) mid-range game of Kobe, the creative slashing ability of Wade but in a bigger, stronger package, the superior athleticism of Lebron, combined with killer instinct, all-time great Bball IQ and reactionary instincts/improvisational ability. It's insane for anyone to think he wouldn't' flat-out dominate in this era unless your knowledge of him is derived strictly from youtube clips or the old Wizards version, instead of following his career nightly on WGN telecasts.

And no, it's not nostalgia talking or the refusal to accept that anyone can be better( talking strictly perimeter players right now), as a basketball fan first and foremost I actually *want* someone to come along so I can say ' yeah, this guy is flat-out better'. I just haven't seen it yet.

[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]Prime/peak MJ combined the very best of the Lebron/Kobe/Wade trio of great perimeter players the past decade plus. Killer(imo superior) mid-range game of Kobe, the creative slashing ability of Wade but in a bigger, stronger package, the superior athleticism of Lebron, combined with killer instinct, all-time great Bball IQ and reactionary instincts/improvisational ability. It's insane for anyone to think he wouldn't' flat-out dominate in this era unless your knowledge of him is derived strictly from youtube clips or the old Wizards version, instead of following his career nightly on WGN telecasts.

[b]And no, it's not nostalgia talking or the refusal to accept that anyone can be better( talking strictly perimeter players right now), as a basketball fan first and foremost I actually *want* someone to come along so I can say ' yeah, this guy is flat-out better'. I just haven't seen it yet.[/b][/QUOTE]
:applause:

Exactly and this is what these younger cats don't understand. Translating that thought in other areas like in the movies business for example, it's like saying so and so director was the GOAT and no current director is on his level, well that sucks because I enjoy watching movies and love watching great films. I want current directors being as great or better than past directors. Same in hoops, I want to see someone as great or
better than MJ, like you said, we're talking perimeter players because prime peak Shaq was as dominant as prime peak MJ, (I still take MJ over Shaq because he had a major weakness to his game whereas MJ had none and MJ's dominated longer).

LeBron is a great player, he's just not on prime peak MJ's level, just telling it like it is

[QUOTE=SugarHill]He was satirizing 3ball, man[/QUOTE]

You're not wrong about this - but keep in mind that a lot of truth is said in jest. Using the word "FACT" was a ploy, but I genuinely believe the things that I said.

Honestly think about it: during Jordan's time in the NBA, it was dramatically more difficult to score in the paint, for reasons which OP has spammed onto the front page of this forum countless times. It's annoying that he won't shut up about it - but it is COMPLETELY FACTUAL and correct. Today's NBA is geared toward allowing more penetration and making it easier for perimeter players to attack the basket.

In spite of all that, Jordan was vastly superior to any of today's greatest slashers, and dunked WAY more often over a decidedly superior pool of interior defenders. Whatever he was able to score in the late 80's and early 90's, he should reasonably be able to score 5-10 points more in today's game. He was also a good three point shooter at times, but in today's game he would undoubtedly practice that shot more often - and since defenders would be forced to honor his drive (him being a G.O.A.T. rim-attacker), he would be given space to shoot more often than not.

Using these simple, truth-based arguments to estimate peak-Jordan's production in today's game, we get:

40+ PPG on [I]slightly[I] lower FG% only due to more 3PA

Also he would win the scoring title every season and probably have more than 5 MVP's.

3ball and Jordan have gotten out of ****ing control. Whats next?

A rookie Jordan would be the best player in 2005-2006? Better than Kobe Wade LeBron? a rookie Jordan >> 35\5\5, 31\7\7, 27\7\6 and a Finals MVP

a rookie Jordan would be the best player in 2008-2009? Better than Kobe Wade LeBron? a rookie Jordan >> 30\8\5\2\1, 28\7\7\2\1, 27\5\5 and a Finals MVP

A rookie Jordan would be the best player last year? Rookie Jordan > 32\7\5 50% Durant and 27\7\7 56% LeBron, Rookie Jordan > MVP Durant

A rookie Jordan would be the best player in 99-00? Obviously better than the 30\15\3 Shaq. MVP? FMVP? Arguably GOAT Finals.. Nah Rookie Jordans better because 3ball said so


Shut the **** up 3ball

Maybe if Jordan banged OP's mom a worthless piece of dog shit like OP wouldn't have been born

Jordan's sperm the GOAT sperm

[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]3ball and Jordan have gotten out of ****ing control. Whats next?

A rookie Jordan would be the best player in 2005-2006? Better than Kobe Wade LeBron? a rookie Jordan >> 35\5\5, 31\7\7, 27\7\6 and a Finals MVP

a rookie Jordan would be the best player in 2008-2009? Better than Kobe Wade LeBron? a rookie Jordan >> 30\8\5\2\1, 28\7\7\2\1, 27\5\5 and a Finals MVP

A rookie Jordan would be the best player last year? Rookie Jordan > 32\7\5 50% Durant and 27\7\7 56% LeBron, Rookie Jordan > MVP Durant

A rookie Jordan would be the best player in 99-00? Obviously better than the 30\15\3 Shaq. MVP? FMVP? Arguably GOAT Finals.. Nah Rookie Jordans better because 3ball said so


Shut the **** up 3ball[/QUOTE]

What does it say about your argument here that even when speaking about rookie Jordan, you still had to cherry pick certain years?

[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]3ball and Jordan have gotten out of ****ing control. Whats next?

A rookie Jordan would be the best player in 2005-2006? Better than Kobe Wade LeBron? a rookie Jordan >> 35\5\5, 31\7\7, 27\7\6 and a Finals MVP

a rookie Jordan would be the best player in 2008-2009? Better than Kobe Wade LeBron? a rookie Jordan >> 30\8\5\2\1, 28\7\7\2\1, 27\5\5 and a Finals MVP

A rookie Jordan would be the best player last year? Rookie Jordan > 32\7\5 50% Durant and 27\7\7 56% LeBron, Rookie Jordan > MVP Durant

A rookie Jordan would be the best player in 99-00? Obviously better than the 30\15\3 Shaq. MVP? FMVP? Arguably GOAT Finals.. Nah Rookie Jordans better because 3ball said so


Shut the **** up 3ball[/QUOTE]

I think it is QUITE possible that a rookie Jordan would be AT LEAST equal to several of those player seasons you mentioned, at least statistically if not in terms of polish (due to being a rookie versus the others being in their 3rd-8th+ seasons).

I think it is ENTIRELY possible that rookie Jordan averages 31/7/7 in 2006 (or thereabouts - maybe like 30-32 pts/6+ reb/6+ ast) - he'd certainly be better than 27/7/6.

Jordan got the LeStans shook :applause:

I wanna see current Westbrook battling rookie MJ. Would be good times and exciting :applause:

[QUOTE=Prometheus]What does it say about your argument here that even when speaking about rookie Jordan, you still had to cherry pick certain years?[/QUOTE]

No need to cherry pick, rookie Jordan wouldn't be the best player in the league in [B]any given[/B] year.

Even with the rule changes and offensive explosion that happened in 06, the league pace was still way slower than the pace MJ played at. Scoring was lower too. And here we are to believe Jordan will have better stats in an era where there is less possessions per game, and lower scoring per game?

[QUOTE=TheMan]Jordan got the LeStans shook :applause:[/QUOTE]

Like you said, these young cats have no clue. They honestly think that we would rather watch Jordan footage than watch someone come along who is better than he was. It hasn't happened yet and it may never happen but for someone to say Lebron is GOAT simply because he is the best in THEIR era just makes them look stupid, insecure, and shook. These cats talking bout Bron this and Bron that as they peer over their game of NBA 2k15 meanwhile we trying to explain that back when we were their age, we actually went outside and PLAYED basketball from 9am - 9pm on the weekends and in the summer.

[QUOTE=Fire Colangelo]No need to cherry pick, rookie Jordan wouldn't be the best player in the league in [B]any given[/B] year.

Even with the rule changes and offensive explosion that happened in 06, the league pace was still way slower than the pace MJ played at. Scoring was lower too. And here we are to believe Jordan will have better stats in an era where there is less possessions per game, and lower scoring per game?[/QUOTE]

Team pace has little to do with individual scoring. Stars in the modern era use up a greater percentage of their team's possessions. Stars always get theirs regardless of pace. Jordan would EASILY put up at least the numbers he did back then in any given year, save perhaps for his peak FG%, which might be, say 52% instead of 54%.

[QUOTE=Prometheus]Are you people serious? Michael Jordan would crush today's league. He dunked more than anyone in the hardest era to dunk. Midrange game on a thousand, and if he came up in this era he would obviously practice more threes.

FACT: at his peak, MJ in today's game would average more than 45 points.
[B]FACT: rookie MJ would win MVP if he was drafted this season.[/B]
FACT: MJ would win the scoring title every year he spent in the league.
[/QUOTE]

This had me thinking, no bias here but what you said is actually true and a fact. Rookie MJ averaged 28/6/6 on 50% fg. Almost similar to Lebron's stat line this year and better than Harden, Curry, Westbrook, etc.

28ppg is higher than the ppg of the current leading scorer Harden. Rookie MJ winning scoring title = check and don't forget Rookie MJ played defense. Averaged 2.4 spg and 0.8 bpg. No doubt if he is playing on a top 5 seeded team can win the MVP.

Scoring title + MVP + Defensive 2nd / 1st team is a possibility... All NBA 1st team as well and this is a "rookie" we're talking about. Now if this is 88 - 93 MJ. :eek: League wrecked.

[QUOTE]
FACT: MJ would shoot at least 45% on three-point shots in today's game.[/QUOTE]

This is where I don't fully agree even though I'm one of the biggest MJ fan here. As MJ stated himself way back that he doesn't like shooting too many 3s as it will hurt his overall game. I think he will still average same numbers he has from the 3 point line in 90 - 93 season.

[QUOTE]FACT: rookie MJ would win MVP if he was drafted this season.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] This had me thinking, no bias here but what you said is actually true and a fact. Rookie MJ averaged 28/6/6 on 50% fg. Almost similar to Lebron's stat line this year and better than Harden, Curry, Westbrook, etc.
[/QUOTE]

Rookie Jordan>prime LeBron? Really? What is next? Wizards Jordan=prime Harden (hey, wasn't he putting up something like 25/5/5 before getting hurt!)? This kind of stuff is what gets MJ fans in trouble and results in a backlash against the Jordan mythology. :lol

You can't simply transfer stats from 1985 to 2015. That is like saying prime Wilt would score 50 ppg today because he did it in 1962.

Relax. Prime MJ would be the best player today. We all get it. No need for claiming rookie MJ would be MVP today.

Due to size, I think Westbrook is showing what David Thompson would have been like with PG skills! Thompson was more of a SG-SF. Westbrook is totally reshaping the PG position. Freakish athlete, true alpha dog, and a great all around player in one! Even though he's a PG, I compare him more to guys like Thompson and Wade.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Team pace has little to do with individual scoring. Stars in the modern era use up a greater percentage of their team's possessions. Stars always get theirs regardless of pace. Jordan would EASILY put up at least the numbers he did back then in any given year, save perhaps for his peak FG%, which might be, say 52% instead of 54%.[/QUOTE]

Not saying he won't put up numbers he did back then, just saying he won't be putting better numbers like many claim he would. And that he wouldn't be the best player in the game today as a rookie.

[QUOTE=Fire Colangelo]

Scoring was lower too. And here we are to believe Jordan will have better stats in an era where there is less possessions per game, and lower scoring per game?

[/QUOTE]
[SIZE="3"]Today's pace is 93.8, which is between 6% slower and 5% FASTER than the Bulls played during Jordan's career:
[/SIZE]

[U][B][SIZE="3"]Bulls Pace[/SIZE][/B]:
[/U]
[B]1985[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 99.4.... 6% faster than today's 93.8 pace
[B]1986[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 99.7.... 6%
[B]1987[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.8.... 2%
[B]1988[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.5.... 2%
[B]1989[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 97.0.... 4%
[B]1990[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 96.7.... 4%
[B]1991[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.6.... 2%
[B]1992[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.4.... 2%
[i][B]1993[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 92.5.... (1%) slower than today's 93.8 pace
[B]1995[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 92.0.... (2%)
[B]1996[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 91.1.... (3%)
[B]1997[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 90.0.... (4%)
[B]1998[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 89.0.... (5%)
[/i]

Jordan 3-peated at a pace between 2% and 6% FASTER than today's game, and then again at a pace that was between 1% and 5% SLOWER than today's game.
.

.
[size="4"][B]MJ Dunking on Duncan[/B][/size]


[IMG]http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/7cd0f2d7213f3061b6bfd97470ceb708.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/35e143189259ba9efd81c628c18e0eb1.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Michael_Jordan_Dunks_On_Tim_Du_c637e9b63274127bb966a04f34e07da9.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=3ball][SIZE="3"]Today's pace is 93.8, which is between 6% slower and 5% FASTER than the Bulls played during Jordan's career:
[/SIZE]

[U][B][SIZE="3"]Bulls Pace[/SIZE][/B]:
[/U]
[B]1985[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 99.4.... 6% faster than today's 93.8 pace
[B]1986[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 99.7.... 6%
[B]1987[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.8.... 2%
[B]1988[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.5.... 2%
[B]1989[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 97.0.... 4%
[B]1990[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 96.7.... 4%
[B]1991[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.6.... 2%
[B]1992[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.4.... 2%
[i][B]1993[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 92.5.... (1%) slower than today's 93.8 pace
[B]1995[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 92.0.... (2%)
[B]1996[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 91.1.... (3%)
[B]1997[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 90.0.... (4%)
[B]1998[/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 89.0.... (5%)
[/i]

Jordan 3-peated at a pace between 2% and 6% faster than today's game, and then again at a pace that was between 1% and 5% SLOWER than today's game.
.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://new1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Tell+me+more+about+sparta+_307e344a16de578bbb4c6bbea02b14aa.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Smoke117][IMG]http://new1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Tell+me+more+about+sparta+_307e344a16de578bbb4c6bbea02b14aa.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE=Fire Colangelo]Not saying he won't put up numbers he did back then, just saying he won't be putting better numbers like many claim he would. And that he wouldn't be the best player in the game today as a rookie.[/QUOTE]

Imo he'd easily be better than Westbrook, Curry, Harden and probably Durant too (Jordan just did more as a playmaker and defender than KD or Harden do, and is a better scorer/defender than Curry; far more versatile and efficient than Westbrook). He'd have better numbers than Lebron this year even though 2015 Lebron is likely the better player.