Similar to Wade which stars of today will have the saddest decline

[QUOTE=swagga]

played the high post better (kobe)
drop stepped better (carter)

[/QUOTE]
Kobe better than Jordan on the high post?.. Are you out of your mind?.. Jordan's 2nd three-peat was WON from the high post - Phil Jackson would slap you silly if he heard you say that.. Out of all the things you could have chosen to be wrong about, that was the worst one.

As for Vince Carter's drop-step - you made this up - pulled it out of your ass.. Point me to a play where Vince drop-stepped like those GIFs of [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10422917&postcount=172][u]Jordan drop-stepping[/u][/url].

VINCE HAS NEVER DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT OFF A DROP-STEP... So stop making things up.. It's like, you don't know about basketball and you're literally making up lies - you would never even SAY OR THINK drop-step if I didn't bring it up.

[QUOTE=swagga]

played pg better (wade, penny, combo guards)

[/QUOTE]
Did either of these guys get 10 triple-doubles in 11 games, or average 30/9/11 playing point guard?... Okay then - so Jordan demonstrated the better point guard ability - that's a fact, and it's not even close - neither Penny nor Wade has ever played PG that well.

Btw, MJ only played PG for that stretch because the regular PG was hurt.. Normally, Jordan shunned the ball-dominance because he'd learned more optimal ways to play at North Carolina.. That's actually how you know the point guard style isn't optimal for winning - if it was, Jordan would've played point guard full-time or been a more ball-dominant guard (also called a "combo" guard).

Harden. Once he loses his ability to consistently get to the rim, what's left of him? :lol

Do you ever quit 3ball?

Sad? Ain't too many 33 year old shooting guards in history who are as productive as Wade is today. **** outta here.

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin]Do you ever quit 3ball?[/QUOTE]
do you guys ever stop making erroneous claims about the game?
.

[QUOTE=swagga]

played off-ball better (ray allen, reggie miller)

[/quote]
Off-ball play is not just catch and shoot - Did you see the GIFs of [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10862372&postcount=18][u]off-ball play[/u][/url]?... Ray and Reggie can't dream of doing those things...

[I]MJ averaged 34 PPG for his career playing off-ball[/I] - Ray and Reggie were nowhere NEAR that.

Btw, even though MJ did many of things off-ball that Ray and Reggie can't dream of doing, catch-and-shoot was still a big part of MJ's game.. And believe it or not, he was BETTER at it that Ray and Reggie - MJ shot mostly 2-pointers and he was a better 2-point shooter than Ray or Reggie, on much higher volume.. He scored more on catch-and-shoot than they did.. :confusedshrug:


[QUOTE]

(kobe, [B][SIZE="3"]rule changes[/SIZE][/B]).

[/QUOTE]
The rule changes made penetration easier.

Seriously, do you understand that?.. The NBA [url=http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html][u]officially stated[/u][/url] the rule changes were meant to increase penetration and had succeeded in this objective - [i]again, this is from the source and creator of the new rules, so it cannot be subjective opinion, similar to how Warren Buffet's vision for Berkshire Hathaway is not subjective opinion[/i].

Does this make sense?.. Or do you enjoy ignoring facts and making up your own truth?
.

Wesbtrook and Harden were definitely the first 2 that came to mind for me.

Pretty much all the guys who rely significantly on their quickness and athleticism, which will decline.

wade's sad decline is not due to loss of athleticism. its due to not being able to cosistently stay healthy. when he's healthy, he's still a superstar level player. he may not have the explosiveness he used to, but he's smart player. he still gets it done with his midrange, post up, runners, and floaters.

back on topic, id say westbrook, griffin, harden

[QUOTE=MJistheGOAT]In general players who rely too much in athleticism and high physical risk movements, who re not elite shooters and/or have elite skills.

...

Westbrook[/QUOTE]

Pretty much this. I would just note that this applies mostly to PG/SG's who tend to be smaller and rely more on quickness. Players like Lebron can find different ways to score using their size rather than their quickness.

Westbrook definitely doesn't seem like he'll age gracefully.

Derrick Rose didn't necessarily lose his athleticism, but doesn't really explode as much as he used to. He's been terrible this season, but I think it's more of a mental issue because he still looks athletic as hell at times. I think this is a good indication of how he would have aged had he not gotten injured.

what type of sick fk would predict some evil shit like this?

Westbrook...Blake Griffin..Dwight maybe? Idk who else.

[QUOTE=f0und]wade's sad decline is not due to loss of athleticism. its due to not being able to cosistently stay healthy. when he's healthy, he's still a superstar level player. he may not have the explosiveness he used to, but he's smart player. he still gets it done with his midrange, post up, runners, and floaters.

back on topic, id say westbrook[B], griffin, harden[/B][/QUOTE]

I think Harden is a toss up. He's got handles and he's a smart player and knows how to draw contact. He's like a more skilled version of Corey Maggette.

Griffin is also a toss up. Griffin seems like he's just effective because he's athletic but he's got skills. He's got handles for his size and he's strong as hell. His jumper has improved a LOT. He's shown that he can put in the work to develop the skills needed to age gracefully.

Most NBA stars are able to adapt with age.

[QUOTE=greatest-ever]Westbrook...Blake Griffin..Dwight maybe? Idk who else.[/QUOTE]

Dwight is a good one. Without that athleticism, his skillset is pretty horrible. He still has his strength though which might allow him to age well enough.

[QUOTE=3ball]Did either of these guys get 10 triple-doubles in 11 games, or average 30/9/11 playing point guard?... Okay then - so Jordan demonstrated the better point guard ability - that's a fact, and it's not even close - neither Penny nor Wade has ever played PG that well.

Btw, MJ only played PG for that stretch because the regular PG was hurt.. Normally, Jordan shunned the ball-dominance because he'd learned more optimal ways to play at North Carolina.. That's actually how you know the point guard style isn't optimal for winning - if it was, Jordan would've played point guard full-time or been a more ball-dominant guard (also called a "combo" guard).[/QUOTE]
Triple doubles are such an arbitrary measure of production.

And what you mean Wade was never good at playing point guard? He played combo guard and didnt turn it over the way Westbrook did. Lol you bring up 30 11 9 for westbrook for a stretch of games? Wade in 09 had a better stretch where he averaged 38 ppg 10 apg on way higher efficiency than Westbrook.

[QUOTE=f0und]wade's sad decline is not due to loss of athleticism. its due to not being able to cosistently stay healthy. when he's healthy, he's still a superstar level player. he may not have the explosiveness he used to, but he's smart player. he still gets it done with his midrange, post up, runners, and floaters.

back on topic, id say westbrook, griffin, harden[/QUOTE]
Its both athleticism and injuries. There are days where he's healthy and he'll still look awful. Without athleticism Wade is still very good but he's no superstar without it.

Westbrook is going to end up like Francis if he doesn't develop his shot.

[QUOTE=Lebron23]Lebron is living rent free inside your head.[/QUOTE]

Dawg your name is Lebron23

:roll:

Defiantly LeBron James. His knees will begin to feel all those miles in a year or two. His footwork is shit and without explosiveness he'll be a 15/6/6 guy

Isn't Wade putting up 21/5/4 on 55% TS? Yeah, that's not a "sad decline".

[QUOTE=3ball][SIZE="3"][B]Because MJ didn't show any decline at 30:[/B][/SIZE]


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For 30 years old, it's a pretty significant decline for Lebron - he's already down to a 25 PER... MJ didn't get that low until he was 35... Good thing Lebron has a much better supporting cast.
.[/QUOTE]


Yes he did.

Go watch Jordan in 1990 and then watch him in 1993. It is clear that he lost a step athletically.

And comparing Lebron's decline to Jordan's is stupid. Lebron has played 12 NBA seasons, plus a ton of deep playoff runs, and several years of olympic ball. He has a ton of more milage then Jordan did at age 30.

:roll: [QUOTE=aj1987]Isn't Wade putting up 21/5/4 on 55% TS? Yeah, that's not a "sad decline".[/QUOTE]
Yeah but at this point he can't play anywhere near a full season. People say that more because his constant injuries than production. And its 54 ts% the 2nd lowest of his career.

Wade is declining in health

[QUOTE=game3524]Yes he did.

[B]Go watch Jordan in 1990 and then watch him in 1993. It is clear that he lost a step athletically.
[/B]
And comparing Lebron's decline to Jordan's is stupid. Lebron has played 12 NBA seasons, plus a ton of deep playoff runs, and several years of olympic ball. He has a ton of more milage then Jordan did at age 30.[/QUOTE]
Just another reason why MJ quit the NBA for 18mos.

[QUOTE=FreezingTsmoove]I shed 2 tears today watching Wade. One of the hardest moments to watch as a heat fan today

As for the topic im going with Klay Thompson[/QUOTE]

When Westbrook isn't as fast anymore, and he has to rely on that jump shot, things could get a little ugly. Rose also.

[QUOTE=game3524]Yes he did.

Go watch Jordan in 1990 and then watch him in 1993. It is clear that he lost a step athletically.

And comparing Lebron's decline to Jordan's is stupid. Lebron has played 12 NBA seasons, plus a ton of deep playoff runs, and several years of olympic ball. He has a ton of more milage then Jordan did at age 30.[/QUOTE]

Not only that he's bigger, so its more pressure on his knees.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Isn't Wade putting up 21/5/4 on 55% TS? Yeah, that's not a "sad decline".[/QUOTE]
This. Wade has no athleticism these days (can just about get up to dunk), and he's still an all-star level player, putting up all-star level numbers - and these numbers would surely be better, if he weren't so often playing through knee pain (a likely consequence of meniscus removal).

Wade has one of the most skillful and nuanced games in the league, hence why he can still be a dominant force as a 6'4 guy with very limited athleticism. Not being able to shoot 3s (or opting not to focus on other things) doesn't mean a guy relies on his athleticism. Heat are struggling largely because there aren't any good 3-point shooters [I]around[/I] Wade (and obviously the absurd amount of injuries).

Unfortunately Westbrook seems like a prime candidate

[QUOTE=greatest-ever]Westbrook...Blake Griffin..Dwight maybe? Idk who else.[/QUOTE]
Feel like we've already seen Dwight's sad decline. He doesn't really care though.