Isnt the discrimination against MVP point guards apparent?

[QUOTE=Mrofir]You make a lot of good points but I can't agree with this. Some years Nash had a very nice supporting cast, but here is his roster for his 2nd mvp season by order of minutes played:

Marion
Raja Bell
Boris Diaw
Nash
Barbosa
Tim Thomas
Kurt Thomas
James Jones
Eddie House

This team of bench players lost in the WCF. Other than Nash, Marion is the only sure fire starter quality talent on that roster and they had no depth. Curry obviously has much more around him; I truly cannot see another point guard in nba history taking this particular roster that close to a championship. Imagine if Westbrook had taken OKC to the brink of a finals appearance this year. He still had more talent around him than Nash had in 06. And Nash did it again in 2010 with 2.5 starter quality players and again, no depth.

Stoudemire
Nash
J Rich
Grant Hill
Channing Frye
Jared Dudley
Robin Lopez
G Dragic


Sure the Bulls built a more defensive oriented team around Derrick Rose and the Suns tried to surround Nash with some decent shooters. But Nash made the dream in Phoenix, he wasn't assisted nearly enough by the front office. If he was assisted a little more, they would have won a championship. i.e. match Joe Johnson when he was an RFA.[/QUOTE]
Good points as aalways. I certainly don't have a problem with Nash at all. He was the man. I think he deserved it. But offensively, his team was far superior to Roses.

What Kidd did in his prime was a bit more impressive than Nash tho, because he didn't have a system, an offensive minded coach, a finisher, continuity, nor as good shooters, or as versatile offensive players. Not one other player in the league could have done what Kidd did that year. Not Shaq, Kobe, Tmac, Duncan or any point guard. And Nash was pretty close to him with that second MVP. Agreed.

Point guards usually excel with offensive weapons/options. What Nash, Kidd and Rose did with very little is really hard to make something big out of little.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Wow, didn't I just delineate why you can't have an elite offense while being weak in[B][SIZE="5"] 12 primary areas[/SIZE][/B]. I mean you could have understood one thing, but that was asking too much.

But his team had the best record in the league?[/QUOTE]
Best record in the league based on defense....his weakest aspect.

It's not like Curry is surrounded by epic offensive talent. Klay is a great spot up shooter, draygod is ok, Barnes has been down, Lee barely plays, and Bogut hasn't been able to shoot since his elbow exploded.

Rose had Loul Deng and Boozer, who both had the ability to score 20+ ppg for the season, and Noah who was the best passing big in the game.

Rose ballhogged his way to great stats on a team that won because 1. They had the best D and 2. They played their starters more than anyone else.

Obviously curry and Nash had better offensive help than Rose....but they also made those guys better, and had offensive results multiple tiers above that Bulls team.

Rose was only in the MVP discussions because of the Bulls record, and that record was based on Thibs, D, and overworking the team in the regular season. NOT Rose's offense.

[QUOTE=Taller than CP3]Both Nash and Rose deserved it. They actually dominated in an era when players were healthy and in their prime.

Curry doesn't, here's why.

Kobe - old and injured
Durant - injured
Lebron - old
Carmelo - plays on a shitty team

So Curry wins MVP by default. If any of those 4 guys were healthy and on the Warriors, then Curry would just go back to being a solid role player, kind of like when Monte Ellis was still with Golden State.

You know it's a weak era when a Ray Allenesque, Reggie Millerish type of player can win the MVP.[/QUOTE]

Could be the worst post in ISH history.

[QUOTE=T_L_P]Could be the worst post in ISH history.[/QUOTE]

It's up there.

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]Nash orchestrated an elite offense
Curry orchestrated an elite offense
Rose orchestrated a shit offense.

One of these things is not like the other![/QUOTE]
Alvin Gentry vs Tom Thibs...

[QUOTE=Pointguard]
What Kidd did in his prime was a bit more impressive than Nash tho, because he didn't have a system, an offensive minded coach, a finisher, continuity, nor as good shooters, or as versatile offensive players. Not one other player in the league could have done what Kidd did that year. Not Shaq, Kobe, Tmac, Duncan or any point guard. And Nash was pretty close to him with that second MVP. Agreed.
[/QUOTE]

Kidd's run with the Nets was pretty remarkable, especially the way they swept through the playoffs. Going 2-2 with the Spurs in the finals was super impressive and surprising. Here is the thing that detracts from it for me -- everyone and their mother knew the a team from the west was going to win the finals that year. If the Nets had somehow finished the job Kidd would leap frog the entire tier to stand just behind Magic. That's how influential just a few games can be in a legacy.

The clear cut best three teams in the league were in the west -- Spurs, Mavs, Kings -- in roughly that order. The Lakers could have possibly been the 4th best team in the league that year, with Kobe/Shaq and not much else. The 6th seeded Trail Blazers had the same record is the #1 seeded Pistons in the East, 50-32. That is messed up.

The east was pretty weak that year and even though JKidd was absolutely phenomenal, I'm not sure those Nets would have escaped the 2nd round in the west. It's not Kidd's fault, but I think his play that year won't be remembered the same way as Isiah or Nash in their prime playoff runs. I'm a Suns fan, so I'm a Kidd fan as well.

Harden or Curry are deserving. I'm happy either way.

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]Best record in the league based on defense....his weakest aspect.[/quote]
Rose had a very impressive year defensively. Name an elite pg that had a good game on him all year long. The were averaging less than 40% shooting and well below their scoring average on him. They had the best perimeter defense in the league. He held Wade as good as any player ever held a healthy Wade in the playoffs. No other great defensive PG in current memory is doing that.
[quote]
It's not like Curry is surrounded by epic offensive talent. Klay is a great spot up shooter, draygod is ok, Barnes has been down, Lee barely plays, and Bogut hasn't been able to shoot since his elbow exploded.[/quote]I gave you 12 key critical points that Curry has an advantage in. Do you want to continue or you don't?

[quote]
Rose had Loul Deng and Boozer, who both had the ability to score 20+ ppg for the season, and Noah who was the best passing big in the game. [/quote]
Noah and Boozer had bad years and missed 67 games between them. Noah's passing game did little for that offense.
[quote]
Rose ballhogged his way to great stats on a team that won because 1. They had the best D and 2. They played their starters more than anyone else.
[/quote] Maybe you can list me all the teams in history that featured a ball hog with the best record in the league, and I'll show you an MVP.

1. GS has the best defense in the league and a way more competent offense.
2. The Bulls had 20 different starting line-ups. The whole team started.
[quote]
Obviously curry and Nash had better offensive help than Rose....but they also made those guys better, and had offensive results multiple tiers above that Bulls team.

Rose was only in the MVP discussions because of the Bulls record, and that record was based on Thibs, D, and overworking the team in the regular season. NOT Rose's offense.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but Lebron's team had a top three defense. With two of the best offensive players in the game the year before. Rose lead the league in 4th quarter turnarounds and fourth quarter scoring. You said he was a ball hog. It obviously means he was a great ball hog and that he was better than the rest of the league when it counted most.

Dwight howard > Rose

[QUOTE=Pointguard]Those are just excuses. And you can make them for every year.

Lebron was on a super talented team and didn't have the best record. Dirk was on one of his best teams. Rose had waaaaay more excuses and reasons not to excell that year than Wade, Lebron, Dwight... .[/QUOTE]

There not excuse at all. Rose won the MVP in a weak overall year for MVP candidates. You think he is winning that award if Lebron remains in Cleveland or Kobe's knee was healthy?