Lebron craters the apg and assist % of his teammates

Multiple threads saying the same thing (your specialty) and you refuse to acknowledge the following point...

[B]Consider the type of offense ran by all players.

Pippen played in the triangle, an offense whose purpose is to move the ball and allow, more or less, equal opportunity.[/B] Pippen's stats (aside from assists), with and without Jordan, are nearly identical. This is because Pippen was playing within a relatively constrictive offense. He took the same amount of shots, made the same amount, at the same percentage.

His assists took a dive because he replaced an GOAT tier talent with a D league talent. Honestly, the difference is, literally, one assist per game. [B]I would wager all of the money I will make in my life that Pippen got X assists passing to Jordan, and (X - 1+) assists passing to Myers because of scoring-ability differences in the two. That would be LITERALLY the difference. [/B]

All of the other players played in a ball-dominant offense that featured a centerpiece. They were the center piece. Of course their numbers will be higher when they are the centerpiece than when they are not.

Please try to refute what I said, in particular the bolded portions.

[QUOTE=3ball][B]Two things the stats show us:[/B]

1) Lebron's presence [B]significantly lowers the APG[/B] and assist percentage of his teammates, as seen with Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Bosh, and Love.

2) Since he reduces the assist rate of his teammates, it's no surprise that virtually all of his TEAMS have [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385446]very low assist frequency[/url].[/QUOTE]
Bosh with Toronto, lowest assist avg. for a year 1.0....with Miami 1.1

Love with Minny, (not counting rookie year) lowest 1.5.......with Cleveland 2.4

Kyrie lowest w/o LeBron, 5.4.....lowest with 5.2

Mo's lowest (not counting his rookie year) w/o 4.0......with, 4.1

Wade's lowest 4.5....with LeBron 4.6.

So as you can see folks, these players have had their worst statistical assist avg. while playing with LeBron.

:rolleyes:

.
[B][SIZE="3"][I]Jordan was a FAR better shooter than Curry inside 20 feet:[/I][/SIZE]
[/B]


[INDENT][SIZE="2"][B][COLOR="White"].....................[/COLOR][url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]MJ 1997[/url][COLOR="White"]...................[/COLOR][url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Curry 2015[/Url][/B][COLOR="White"]............ [/COLOR][b][url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/]Curry 2016[/url][/B] [COLOR="DarkGreen"][B]<--- link to nba.com data[/B][/COLOR]

[B]5-9 ft[/B].......... 49.2%, 126 fga........... 40.3%, 72 fga.......... 48.6%, 72 fga

[B]10-14 ft[/B]....... 51.5%, 466 fga........... 52.9%, 85 fga.......... 50.9%, 57 fga

[B]15-19 ft[/B]....... 49.5%, 594 fga........... 43.9%, 132 fga........ 37.3%, 102 fga



[b]Overall midrange % (all shots inside the 3-point line but outside the paint)[/b]

[I]JORDAN 1997[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 49.3%, 1202 fga
[I]CURRY[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 2015[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 41.1%, 285 fga
[I]CURRY[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 2016[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 42.5%, 200 fga[/SIZE][/INDENT]
.

.
[B][u]Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:[/u][/B]


[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced]Jordan[/url]: 31.1%
[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced]Pippen[/url]: 23.3%



[B][u]Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:[/u][/B]


[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced]Jordan[/url]: 22.3%
[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced]Pippen[/url]: 22.0%


[I][COLOR="blue"]Click on Jordan or Pippen for links to source data at basketball-reference.com[/COLOR][/I].
.

.
[B][COLOR="darkred"]In the 1991 Finals, MJ guarded Magic Johnson for 14 of the 20 quarters (70%) to Pippen's 6 of 20 quarters (30%).

Specifically, Pippen guarded Magic for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters of Game 2... the 2nd and 3rd quarters of Game 3... the last 4 minutes of Game 4, and none in Games 1 or 5.. Here's all 5 games in their entirety:[/COLOR][/B]

Game 1: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUC9fSFdik[/url]
Game 2: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6AWPT6fG0[/url]
Game 3: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueGQChyFuU[/url]
Game 4: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0LJVxaqD0[/url]
Game 5: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNFQSBUe5c[/url]
.

.
[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="2"][B]Since Lebron significantly lowers the APG and assist % of his teammates:[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="Green"]Wade apg and assist % before Lebron (04'-10'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game]6.6[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced]34.8%[/url] [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Wade apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game]4.7[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced]25.5%[/url] [/COLOR]


[COLOR="Green"]Bosh apg and assist % before Lebron (04'-10'): 2.2, 10.5%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Bosh apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game]1.6[/url], [COLOR="White"].[/COLOR][url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced]8.0%[/url] [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Irving apg and assist % before Lebron (12'-14'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game]5.8[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced]33.2[/url][/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Irving apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (2015):[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] 5.2, 25.0%[/COLOR]


[COLOR="Green"]Kevin Love apg and assist % in MIN: 2.5, 13.0%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Kevin Love apg and assist % in CLE:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 2.2, 10.7%[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Mo Williams apg and assist % before Lebron: 6.3, 30.0%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Mo Williams apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron: 4.1, 20.1%[/COLOR]



[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="2"][B]Naturally, Lebron's all of TEAMS have low assist frequency relative to his peers's teams:[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[I]POSSESSIONS PER ASSIST (HIGHER NUMBER MEANS LESS PASSING)[/I]


[I]2015 Cavs[/I]: 92.3/22.1 = [COLOR="red"]4.18[/COLOR]
[I]2014 Heat[/I]: 91.2/22.5 = [COLOR="Red"]4.05[/COLOR]
[I]2013 Heat[/I]: 90.7/23.0 = [COLOR="Red"]3.94[/COLOR]
[I]2012 Heat[/I]: 91.2/20.0 = [COLOR="Red"]4.56[/COLOR]
[I]2011 Heat[/I]: 90.9/20.0 = [COLOR="red"]4.55[/COLOR]
[I]2010 Cavs[/I]: 91.4/22.4 = [COLOR="Red"]4.08[/COLOR]
[I]2009 Cavs[/I]: 88.7/20.3 = [COLOR="Red"]4.37[/COLOR]
[I]2008 Cavs[/I]: 90.2/20.0 = [COLOR="Red"]4.51[/COLOR]
[I]2007 Cavs[/I]: 90.8/20.8 = [COLOR="Red"]4.37[/COLOR]
[I]2006 Cavs[/I]: 89.8/19.0 = [COLOR="Red"]4.72[/COLOR]


[I]1998 Bulls[/I]: 89.0/23.8 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.74[/COLOR]
[I]1997 Bulls[/I]: 90.0/26.1 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.45[/COLOR]
[I]1996 Bulls[/I]: 91.1/24.8 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.67[/COLOR]
[I]1993 Bulls[/I]: 92.5/26.0 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.56[/COLOR]
[I]1992 Bulls[/I]: 94.4/27.8 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.40[/COLOR]
[I]1991 Bulls[/I]: 95.6/27.0 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.54[/COLOR]
[I]1990 Bulls[/I]: 96.7/26.5 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.65[/COLOR]
[I]1989 Bulls[/I]: 97.0/27.0 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.59[/COLOR]
[I]1988 Bulls[/I]: 95.5/26.2 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.65[/COLOR]
[I]1987 Bulls[/I]: 95.8/26.1 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.67[/COLOR]
[I]1985 Bulls[/I]: 99.4/24.3 = [COLOR="Blue"]4.09[/COLOR]


[I]2015 GSW[/I]:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 98.3/27.4 = [COLOR="Magenta"]3.59[/COLOR]
[I]2014 Spurs[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.0/25.2 = [COLOR="Magenta"]3.77[/COLOR]
[I]2011 Mavs[/I]:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 91.3/23.8 = [COLOR="Magenta"]3.84[/COLOR]
[I]2007 Spurs[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 89.8/22.1 = [COLOR="Magenta"]4.06[/COLOR]

[I]1987 Lakers[/I]: 101.6/29.6 = [COLOR="darkgreen"]3.43[/COLOR]
[I]1986 Celtics[/I]: 102.1/29.1 = [COLOR="darkgreen"]3.47[/COLOR]

[I]Source: basketball-reference.com[/I]
.

[QUOTE=3ball][B]The OP's stats shows teammates' APG and assist % with and without Lebron[/B]:


[COLOR="Green"]Wade apg and assist % before Lebron (04'-10'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game]6.6[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced]34.8%[/url] [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Wade apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game]4.7[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced]25.5%[/url] [/COLOR]


[COLOR="Green"]Bosh apg and assist % before Lebron (04'-10'): 2.2, 10.5%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Bosh apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game]1.6[/url], [COLOR="White"].[/COLOR][url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced]8.0%[/url] [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Irving apg and assist % before Lebron (12'-14'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game]5.8[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced]33.2[/url][/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Irving apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (2015):[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] 5.2, 25.0%[/COLOR]


[COLOR="Green"]Kevin Love apg and assist % in MIN: 2.5, 13.0%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Kevin Love apg and assist % in CLE:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 2.2, 10.7%[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Mo Williams apg and assist % before Lebron: 6.3, 30.0%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Mo Williams apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron: 4.1, 20.1%[/COLOR]


[COLOR="Green"]Pippen apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Jordan 91'-93': [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:per_game]6.5[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:advanced]24.5[/url][/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Pippen apg and assist % w/out Jordan 94'-95': [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:per_game]5.4[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:advanced]23.7[/url][/COLOR]
[COLOR="Green"]Pippen apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Jordan 96'-98': [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:per_game]5.8[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:advanced]25.1[/url][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Bosh with Toronto, lowest assist avg. for a year 1.0....with Miami 1.1

Love with Minny, (not counting rookie year) lowest 1.5.......with Cleveland 2.4

Kyrie lowest w/o LeBron, 5.4.....lowest with 5.2

Mo's lowest (not counting his rookie year) w/o 4.0......with, 4.1

Wade's lowest 4.5....with LeBron 4.6.

[B]Where's the significance??[/B] :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=3ball]Are you stupid?

I posted the AVERAGES of their assist averages with and without Lebron.. Your comparison of the lowest season compared to the lowest season is garbage.[/QUOTE]
But their worst season w/o should be significantly better than their worst year with LeBron, ya dope.

It's not garbage, it's FACT

LOL @ significantly lower.

what next, you gonna compare in game used jockstraps?

.
[SIZE="3"][I]Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:[/I][/SIZE]

[B]Jordan[/B]: [B][COLOR="Red"]31.1%[/COLOR][/B]
[B]Pippen[/B]: [COLOR="Red"][B]23.3%[/B][/COLOR]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced[/url]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced[/url]


[SIZE="3"][I]Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:[/I][/SIZE]

[B]Jordan[/B]: [COLOR="Red"][B]22.3%[/B][/COLOR]
[B]Pippen[/B]: [COLOR="Red"][B]22.0%[/B][/COLOR]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced[/url]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced[/url]
.

[B]3ball [/B]

[IMG]http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/Troll-Dad-GIF.gif[/IMG]



[B]
Lebald fanboys[/B]

[IMG]http://cdn.niketalk.com/a/a3/900x900px-LL-a3c00475_1.gif[/IMG]

Keep up the good work.

3ball craters my brain cells

[QUOTE=3ball]Wtf are you talking about - I just made two threads that posted stats showing Lebron significantly reduced the assists of teammates and that all his teams have very low assist frequency - [B]YOU are the one not responding to or acknowledging these statistical facts.[/B]



Pippen played in the triangle with and without Jordan, so the type of offense has no impact on [B]why Pippen's assists were higher WITH Jordan, and lower without.[/B]

[/QUOTE]
My entire response was geared toward your premise :facepalm
And of course type of offense matters, just as the quality of teammates matter.
Offense matters more in regards to Bosh, Irving, Wade, whereas teammates matter in terms of Pippen.

You are the one that is failing to recognize the contextual differences created by running completely different offenses, and also by having significantly worse teammates.

.
[COLOR="White"]...........[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="3"][I]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR][B]RS[/B][COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR][B]RS 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] [B]PO[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]PO 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]Finals[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B]Finals 4th[/B]


[I][B]JORDAN 1997[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]36.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]40.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs]37.7[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]46.3[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]40.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]50.4[/url][B][COLOR="DarkGreen"] [SIZE="1"]<---- these are links to nba.com data[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
[I][B]JORDAN 1998[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]36.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]42.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs]39.7[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]48.8[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]43.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]49.1[/url]

[I][B]LEBRON 2015[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]30.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]38.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs]35.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]42.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]40.0[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]44.5[/url]
..

Bosh with Toronto, lowest assist avg. for a year 1.0....with Miami 1.1

Love with Minny, (not counting rookie year) lowest 1.5.......with Cleveland 2.4

Kyrie lowest w/o LeBron, 5.4.....lowest with 5.2

Mo's lowest (not counting his rookie year) w/o 4.0......with, 4.1

Wade's lowest 4.5....with LeBron 4.6.

[B]Where's the significant reduction?[/B]

.
[COLOR="White"]................[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="3"][I]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR][B]RS[/B][COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR][B]RS 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] [B]PO[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]PO 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]Finals[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B]Finals 4th[/B]


[I][B]JORDAN 1997[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]36.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]40.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs]37.7[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]46.3[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]40.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]50.4[/url] [B][COLOR="DarkGreen"][size="1"]<--- links to nba.com data[/size][/COLOR][/B]
[I][B]JORDAN 1998[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]36.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]42.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs]39.7[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]48.8[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]43.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]49.1[/url]

[I][B]CURRY 2015[/B][/I]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]29.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]36.2[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs]33.4[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]36.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]29.3[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/usage/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]40.6[/url]
[I][B]CURRY 2016[/B][/I]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/usage/]35.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/usage/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]39.3[/url]
.

Where them OP is a ****** memes at?

[QUOTE=dunksby]Where them OP is a ****** memes at?[/QUOTE]
As the stats show, Lebron's presence significantly lowered the APG and assist percentage of Dwayne Wade, Kyrie Irving, Mo Williams, Kevin Love and Chris Bosh - these guys went from playmakers that generated action and got assists, to play-finishers that didn't make plays or get assists - this is a statistical fact.. Their lower assist rates explains why Lebron's TEAMS have always had very low assist frequency (shown above).

The statistical reality is that Lebron's presence as an additional, low-assisted ball-dominator (in addition to the PG) creates an inequitable distribution of playmaking that prevents the kind of equal-opportunity offenses that all the great teams use (90's Bulls, Spurs, Kerr's Warriors)... Since Lebron's ball-dominance prevents his teams from playing the best brand of basketball, equal or less-talented opponents are able to pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014)..

Otoh, MJ's off-ball game allowed his teams to play an equal-opportunity offense and the best brand of basketball, which meant that equal or less-talented opponents could never pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball - MJ's teams were never upset by equal or lesser talented teams.. Btw, it takes more ability to achieve great stats within an equal-opportunity, winning framework, than the grade school-level, clearout/playground style that ball-dominators like Lebron need to get their numbers.

[QUOTE=3ball]horseshit - why didn't Pippen's assists go down alongisde MJ - instead, Pippen's assists went UP alongisde MJ (the stats are in the OP).

otoh, everyone else's cratered alongside lebron..... whereas pippen's went UP alongside Jordan and DOWN when Jordan wasn't there... hmmm....

what was it about mj's presence that made it easier for Pippen to get an assist... hmmmm... that's a tough one boss.. ahem... highly-assisted off-ball play.. ahem
.[/QUOTE]

Can't really use Pippen. bron can't outplay pippen in any scenario, so you think wade as a 2nd option can? I agree, Lebron is a cancer and that's why his teammates are rendered near useless for assists because he has the ball in his hand so much when he should actually be playing within the flow of the offense like Jordan did. Just another reason why Bron is inferior to Jordan.

[url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/significant[/url]

Significant:

[I]large enough to be noticed or have an effect[/I]

you're welcome, chico.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]

[url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/significant[/url]

Significant:

[I]large enough to be noticed or have an effect[/I]

[/QUOTE]
Wade's assists declined 35% alongside Lebron.

Mo Williams' assists declined 40% alongside Lebron.

Bosh's assists declined 25% alongside Lebron and Love's declined 12%.

Kyrie's assists declined 12% alongside Lebron.


[I]EVERYONE'S assists declined alongside Lebron, and of these differences would be defined as "significant"... Otoh, Pippen's assists INCREASED 20% alongside Jordan.[/I]

[QUOTE=3ball]Better teammates?... Wade > Pippen.... and Bosh/Love/Kyrie are better than any other teammate MJ ever had.

Your response makes no sense and doesn't refute the statistical reality that:

1) Lebron significantly reduces the assists of teammates (Wade/Bosh/Love/Mo/Kyrie)
2) All of his teams for his entire 11-year career had very low assist frequency.
.[/QUOTE]
Reading comprehension fail. Wow.

[QUOTE=3ball]Wade's assists declined 35% alongside Lebron.

Mo Williams' assists declined 40% alongside Lebron.

Bosh's assists declined[B] 25%[/B] alongside Lebron and Love's declined [B]12%[/B].

Kyrie's assists declined [B]12%[/B] alongside Lebron.


[I]EVERYONE'S assists declined alongside Lebron, and of [B]these differences would be defined as "significant"...[/B] Otoh, Pippen's assists INCREASED 20% alongside Jordan.[/I][/QUOTE]
Bosh, Love and Kyrie is significant?

Significant:

[I]large enough to be noticed or have an effect[/I]

Thanks for the :oldlol: and keep reachin, yo.

.
[COLOR="darkRed"][B]Here's Lebron's effective FG% on all [I]"jumpshots"[/I] and [I]"midrange"[/I] from stats.nba.com (midrange is defined as all shots inside 3-point line but outside paint):[/B][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR][U]eFG% All Jumpshots[/U][COLOR="White"]..................[/COLOR] [U]Midrange[/U]

[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2003-04&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2004[/url]: 35.6%, 324/998............ 33.2%, 183/551
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2004-05&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2005[/url]: 39.9%, 400/1136.......... 36.0%, 217/602
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2006[/url]: 41.7%, 423/1166.......... 38.4%, 242/630
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2007[/url]: 39.5%, 372/1066.......... 35.1%, 204/581
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2008[/url]: 39.4%, 338/1001.......... 36.4%, 185/508
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2009[/url]: 42.2%, 366/1024.......... 36.8%, 193/525
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2010[/url]: 43.4%, 356/970............ 38.8%, 188/444
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2011[/url]: 45.4%, 393/968............ 44.6%, 217/487
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2012[/url]: 43.7%, 290/726............ 42.3%, 188/444
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2013[/url]: 49.0%, 333/784............ 43.2%, 174/403
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2014[/url]: 47.0%, 288/736............ 38.5%, 126/327
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2015[/url]: 43.1%, 280/788............ 37.0%, 127/343
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Lebron 2016[/url]: 39.0%, 181/543............ 37.1%, 96/259

[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Jordan 1997[/url]: 51.2%, 727/1528........... 48.9%, 588/1202

[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Currry 2015[/Url]: 56.0%, 424/1029........... 41.1%, 117/285
[url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]Currry 2016[/url]: 62.9%, 389/847............. 45.3%, 67/148

[B]As you can see, Lebron's jumpshooting has been near the bottom of the league for nearly his ENTIRE CAREER - otoh, Kobe's jumpshooting was never considered among the league's worst.[/B]
.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]

Thanks for the keep reaching

[/quote]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/inBAcvB.gif[/IMG]


Lebron's teams are a lot like the Team USA squads he played for in 2004 and 2006 that lost 5 times to international teams with FAR less talent - the USA played such a vastly inferior brand of basketball at the time, that it more than offset their massive talent advantage..

This is the same as Lebron's NBA teams - his ball-dominant presence reduces the assist rate of his teammates and teams, while also preventing equal-opportunity and the best brand of basketball.. Since Lebron prevents his teams from playing the best brand of basketball, his teams are upset by equal or less-talented opponents that play a [I]better[/I] brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014), just like many international teams upset the US in the mid-2000's Olympics.
.

Significant :oldlol:

[QUOTE=3ball]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/inBAcvB.gif[/IMG]


Lebron's teams are a lot like the Team USA squads he played for in 2004 and 2006 that lost 5 times to international teams with FAR less talent - the USA played such a vastly inferior brand of basketball at the time, that it more than offset their massive talent advantage..

This is the same as Lebron's NBA teams - his ball-dominant presence reduces the assist rate of his teammates and teams, while also preventing equal-opportunity and the best brand of basketball.. Since Lebron prevents his teams from playing the best brand of basketball, his teams are upset by equal or less-talented opponents that play a [I]better[/I] brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014), just like many international teams upset the US in the mid-2000's Olympics.

[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Is-There-Anyone-Else-Achilles-In-Troy.gif[/IMG]


[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/qaFduOMYKkmwE/giphy.gif[/IMG]

.

[i][COLOR="Navy"]When Lebron's reduces the assist rate of his teammates and team, the team plays a worse brand of basketball and loses to a far less talented team:[/COLOR]
[/i]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/inBAcvB.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MQmXy-g7bHQ/U55YJiPhrAI/AAAAAAAAHmE/SxmlR-Ep7rk/s1600/leb.gif[/IMG]

This is what happens when you quit the NBA to try to become the next Bo Jackson


[IMG]http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--1kmyPiN7--/18j58638lzswkjpg.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=3ball][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/inBAcvB.gif[/IMG]


Lebron's teams are a lot like the Team USA squads he played for in 2004 and 2006 that lost 5 times to international teams with FAR less talent - the USA played such a vastly inferior brand of basketball at the time, that it more than offset their massive talent advantage..

This is the same as Lebron's NBA teams - his ball-dominant presence reduces the assist rate of his teammates and teams, while also preventing equal-opportunity and the best brand of basketball.. Since Lebron prevents his teams from playing the best brand of basketball, his teams are upset by equal or less-talented opponents that play a [I]better[/I] brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014), just like many international teams upset the US in the mid-2000's Olympics.
.[/QUOTE]

Burned.

This is the reason why bran has to collude. Coz he cant win with equal supporting casts

So, since we're on a similar subject....why not tell everyone what effect Mj presence or absence has on his teammates' ppg and usage rates? I'm sure you did all your homework 1st since you're such a great scientist.:applause:

[QUOTE=3ball].
[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="2"][B]Since Lebron significantly lowers the APG and assist % of his teammates:[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="Green"]Wade apg and assist % before Lebron (04'-10'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game]6.6[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced]34.8%[/url] [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Wade apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game]4.7[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced]25.5%[/url] [/COLOR]


[COLOR="Green"]Bosh apg and assist % before Lebron (04'-10'): 2.2, 10.5%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Bosh apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game]1.6[/url], [COLOR="White"].[/COLOR][url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced]8.0%[/url] [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Irving apg and assist % before Lebron (12'-14'): [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game]5.8[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced]33.2[/url][/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Irving apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (2015):[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] 5.2, 25.0%[/COLOR]


[COLOR="Green"]Kevin Love apg and assist % in MIN: 2.5, 13.0%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Kevin Love apg and assist % in CLE:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 2.2, 10.7%[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Mo Williams apg and assist % before Lebron: 6.3, 30.0%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Mo Williams apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron: 4.1, 20.1%[/COLOR]



[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="2"][B]Naturally, Lebron's all of TEAMS have low assist rates relative to the competition:[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[I]POSSESSIONS PER ASSIST (HIGHER NUMBER MEANS LESS PASSING)[/I]


[I]2015 Cavs[/I]: 92.3/22.1 = [COLOR="red"]4.18[/COLOR]
[I]2014 Heat[/I]: 91.2/22.5 = [COLOR="Red"]4.05[/COLOR]
[I]2013 Heat[/I]: 90.7/23.0 = [COLOR="Red"]3.94[/COLOR]
[I]2012 Heat[/I]: 91.2/20.0 = [COLOR="Red"]4.56[/COLOR]
[I]2011 Heat[/I]: 90.9/20.0 = [COLOR="red"]4.55[/COLOR]
[I]2010 Cavs[/I]: 91.4/22.4 = [COLOR="Red"]4.08[/COLOR]
[I]2009 Cavs[/I]: 88.7/20.3 = [COLOR="Red"]4.37[/COLOR]
[I]2008 Cavs[/I]: 90.2/20.0 = [COLOR="Red"]4.51[/COLOR]
[I]2007 Cavs[/I]: 90.8/20.8 = [COLOR="Red"]4.37[/COLOR]
[I]2006 Cavs[/I]: 89.8/19.0 = [COLOR="Red"]4.72[/COLOR]


[I]1998 Bulls[/I]: 89.0/23.8 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.74[/COLOR]
[I]1997 Bulls[/I]: 90.0/26.1 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.45[/COLOR]
[I]1996 Bulls[/I]: 91.1/24.8 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.67[/COLOR]
[I]1993 Bulls[/I]: 92.5/26.0 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.56[/COLOR]
[I]1992 Bulls[/I]: 94.4/27.8 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.40[/COLOR]
[I]1991 Bulls[/I]: 95.6/27.0 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.54[/COLOR]
[I]1990 Bulls[/I]: 96.7/26.5 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.65[/COLOR]
[I]1989 Bulls[/I]: 97.0/27.0 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.59[/COLOR]
[I]1988 Bulls[/I]: 95.5/26.2 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.65[/COLOR]
[I]1987 Bulls[/I]: 95.8/26.1 = [COLOR="Blue"]3.67[/COLOR]
[I]1985 Bulls[/I]: 99.4/24.3 = [COLOR="Blue"]4.09[/COLOR]


[I]2015 GSW[/I]:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 98.3/27.4 = [COLOR="Magenta"]3.59[/COLOR]
[I]2014 Spurs[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 95.0/25.2 = [COLOR="Magenta"]3.77[/COLOR]
[I]2011 Mavs[/I]:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 91.3/23.8 = [COLOR="Magenta"]3.84[/COLOR]
[I]2007 Spurs[/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 89.8/22.1 = [COLOR="Magenta"]4.06[/COLOR]

[I]1987 Lakers[/I]: 101.6/29.6 = [COLOR="darkgreen"]3.43[/COLOR]
[I]1986 Celtics[/I]: 102.1/29.1 = [COLOR="darkgreen"]3.47[/COLOR]

[I]Source: basketball-reference.com[/I]


Lebron's presence [I]significantly[/I] lowered the APG and assist percentage of Dwayne Wade, Kyrie Irving, Mo Williams, Kevin Love and Chris Bosh - these guys went from playmakers that generated action and got assists, to play-finishers that didn't make plays or get assists - this is a statistical fact.. Their lower assist rates explains why Lebron's TEAMS have always had very low assist frequency (shown above).

The statistical reality is that Lebron's presence as an additional, low-assisted ball-dominator (in addition to the PG) creates an inequitable distribution of playmaking that prevents the kind of equal-opportunity offenses that all the great teams use (90's Bulls, Spurs, Kerr's Warriors)... Since Lebron's ball-dominance prevents his teams from playing the best brand of basketball, equal or less-talented opponents are able to pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014)..

Otoh, MJ's off-ball game allowed his teams to play an equal-opportunity offense and the best brand of basketball, which meant that equal or less-talented opponents could never pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball - MJ's teams were never upset by equal or lesser talented teams.. Btw, it takes more ability to achieve great stats within an equal-opportunity, winning framework, than the grade school-level, clearout/playground style that ball-dominators like Lebron need to get their numbers.
.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bijbF3gkNk[/url]

Who cares about teammates? The only thing that matters:

[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FDeMx3L6-DQ/TPgiyl7PbtI/AAAAAAAAASI/yvr0bCxE7IQ/s400/news_lebron-james-check-my-stats-1.jpg[/IMG]

:kobe:

Perhaps the NBA's plan to manufacture a fraudulent superstar is starting to backfire

I've never seen a supposed all time great so ridiculed and disrespected in their prime :roll:

.
[B][COLOR="Red"]HERE'S WHY MJ WINS 2014 FINALS[/COLOR][/B]


.
[B]Dallas and OKC hold Kawhi to 12 ppg on ~45%[/B]

[INDENT][I][COLOR="navy"]Result: competitive series[/COLOR][/I][/INDENT]


[B]Portland and Heat let Kawhi score 18 ppg on ~57%[/B]

[INDENT][I][COLOR="Navy"]Result: Massacre [/COLOR][/I][/INDENT]


If Lebron could've held role player Kawhi to 12 ppg on sub-40% like DAL and OKC did, instead of letting him be > Duncan, the series would've been competitive, just like DAL and OKC... In addition to the better defense, if Lebron adds the offensive aggression[I][COLOR="Navy"]AS WELL[/COLOR][/I] by doubling his shot attempts like he did in 2015 Finals (which won 2 games with worse supporting cast against better team), the Heat WIN.

MJ would've done both of these things - he never let Byron Russell be better than Karl Malone.. If he had, the Bulls would've been blown away as well.. And he would've been far more aggressive offensively - the combination of Jordan's superior play on BOTH sides of the ball would've led the Heat to victory.. Oh, and Jordan would never get carried off the floor in Game 1 - it's kind of hard to hold teammates accountable on both sides of the ball after that.

But most importantly, the entire Heat TEAM would've been playing a different and superior brand of basketball all year long, because MJ was an off-ball player like Curry, not a ball-dominator that diminishes teammates like Lebron... And the team would've had more heart to continue persevering past the midpoint in Game 3, when the Heat simply GAVE UP.

.
[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="2"][B]Lebron achieves his APG by significantly lowering his teammates' APG and assist %:[/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="Green"]Wade apg and assist % before Lebron (04'-10'):[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game]6.6[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced]34.8%[/url] [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Wade apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'):[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game]4.7[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced]25.5%[/url] [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Irving apg and assist % before Lebron (12'-14'):[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game]5.8[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced]33.2%[/url][/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Irving apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] Lebron (2015):[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 5.2, 25.0%[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Bosh apg and assist % before Lebron (04'-10'):[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 2.2, 10.5%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Bosh apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'):[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game]1.6[/url], [COLOR="White"].[/COLOR][url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced]8.0%[/url] [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Kevin Love apg and assist % in MIN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 2.5, 13.0%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Kevin Love apg and assist % in CLE:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 2.2, 10.7%[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]Mo Williams apg and assist % before Lebron:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 6.3, 30.0%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Mo Williams apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 4.1, 20.1%[/COLOR]

[B]FYI...
[/B]
[COLOR="Green"]Pippen apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Jordan 91'-93':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:per_game]6.5[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:advanced]24.5[/url][/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]Pippen apg and assist % w/out Jordan 94'-95':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:per_game]5.4[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:advanced]23.7[/url][/COLOR]
[COLOR="Green"]Pippen apg and assist % with[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Jordan 96'-98':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:per_game]5.8[/url], [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:advanced]25.1[/url][/COLOR]


It's bad enough that Lebron reduces his teammates' APG (playmaking), but he also increases their assisted rate (play-finishing)!!!... Therefore, it's statistical fact that Lebron turns teammates from playmakers into play-finishers.

Unfortunately, his teammates' predictable play-finishing roles don't work against the best playoff teams - since teammates are playing undercapacity, the TEAM plays undercapacity/underperforms (i.e. losing as the favorite in 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, and 2011 Finals, or losing when it was 50/50 - [url=http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2014/06/nba_finals_2014_experts_predict_whether_the_heat_or_spurs_will_come_out_on_top_in_the_finals_rematch.html]2014 Finals)[/url].

That's the difference between 2/6 and 6/6.. MJ got the most out of his teammates (elevates teammates), while Lebron doesn't (he turns them into play-finishers).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. The reason is [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12056301&postcount=60]twofold[/url].



[QUOTE=AirBonner]

He just needs a better coach

[/QUOTE]
Lebron doesn't know how to play any other way besides dominating the ball, so a different coach wouldn't help - he's already had plenty of coaches from all over the world.. Lebron's ball-dominance and the subsequent reduction of teammates into play-finishers [I][COLOR="Navy"]simply takes over every team he's on[/COLOR][/I].. It's called Lebron-ball, and Lebron can't do anything else.

Look at Miami - with Wade there, Lebron had the best incentive to play off-ball... But he couldn't do it - he's not capable of playing that way..

You simply can't run the Warriors offense or the triangle with Lebron on the floor, PERIOD.. Lebron-ball simply takes over, because that's the only way he knows how to play.

Can you imagine the Warriors, Spurs, or 90's Bulls turning their 70-win juggernauts of optimal chemistry and teamwork into disgusting Lebron-ball?... I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.



.[COLOR="Red"][B]
Here's Lebron's FG% on all [I]"jumpshots"[/I] and [I]"midrange"[/I] from stats.nba.com (midrange is defined as all shots inside 3-point line but outside paint):[/B][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........[/COLOR][U]All Jumpshots[/U][COLOR="White"]...................[/COLOR] [U]Midrange[/U]

[B]2004[/B]: 32.5%, 324/998............ 33.2%, 183/551
[B]2005[/B]: 35.2%, 400/1136.......... 36.0%, 217/602
[B]2006[/B]: 36.3%, 423/1166.......... 38.4%, 242/630
[B]2007[/B]: 34.9%, 372/1066.......... 35.1%, 204/581
[B]2008[/B]: 33.8%, 338/1001.......... 36.4%, 185/508
[B]2009[/B]: 35.7%, 366/1024.......... 36.8%, 193/525
[B]2010[/B]: 36.7%, 356/970........... 38.8%, 188/444
[B]2011[/B]: 40.6%, 393/968........... 44.6%, 217/487
[B]2012[/B]: 39.9%, 290/726........... 42.3%, 188/444
[B]2013[/B]: 42.5%, 333/784........... 43.2%, 174/403
[B]2014[/B]: 39.1%, 288/736........... 38.5%, 126/327
[B]2015[/B]: 35.5%, 280/788........... 37.0%, 127/343
[B]2016[/B]: 33.1%, 114/331........... 36.6%, 56/163


[B]As you can see, Lebron's jumpshooting has been near the bottom of the league for nearly his ENTIRE CAREER - otoh, Kobe's jumpshooting was never considered among the league's worst.[/B]


[quote=pauk]

Where were you making these claims during his 14' finals? How about nearly his whole time at Miami?

[/QUOTE]
You don't realize how dumb Lebron and the Heat were in 2014.. In the Finals, the Heat shot better than any other Spurs opponent (DAL, POR, OKC), yet they lost by the most.

Why is this?.. Because the Heat were so wrapped up in their efficiency strategy, that they lost sight of what wins games - POINTS - the more points you score, the better chance you have to win, irregardless of efficiency.

[I]This was proven by the stats.. Again, the Heat shot the best, but lost by the most and had the widest differential in ORtg ever.. Otoh, the stat that ACTUALLY affected the ORtg differential was PPG[/I]:

DAL scored the most ppg vs. Spurs, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the smallest.. OKC scored the 2nd most ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the 2nd smallest.. POR scored the 3rd most, and their disadvantage was the 3rd smallest... And of course, Miami, with their dumb efficiency strategy, scored the least ppg, and their disadvantage in ORtg was the most, BY FAR..






THE most important aspect of offense: SPACING.[/I]

3-point shooting spaces-out defenders.. Accordingly, the level of spacing in a given era affects the way defense is played - defenders either make extra rotations due to 3-point shooting/spaced-out defenders (today's era), or defenders have less rotations due to no spacing/bunched-up defenders (previous eras).

Ultimately, improvements in spacing over the years have been offset by extra rotations on defense, which is why league-wide offensive rating (the stat measuring how hard it is to score) has been stable for 30 years.. ORtg has ranged between 105 and 108 since 1980, excluding a brief downswing from 1999-2004.

The minor shifts within that 105-108 range are due to style of play differences between the eras that affect inputs to the ORtg calculation, such as offensive rebounding rate and FT rate.. Specifically, the higher proportion of 2-pointers taken in previous eras resulted in higher offensive rebounding rate, which inflated ORtg.. That's how the stat is calculated - [url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html]notice how[/url] as 3-pointers increase over the years, offensive rebounding rate declines, which reduced ORtg.. Nonetheless, the rule changes in 2005 (hand-check ban and defensive 3 seconds) began to inflate ORtg again, and it reached all-time highs from 2008-2011.

But again, regardless of these minor shifts, ORtg has remained within the 105-108 range for 30 years - stable ORtg over the years proves the difficulty of scoring hasn't changed, and the changes in offensive strategy (spacing) and defensive strategy (extra rotations) are offsetting - you either have extra rotations required by spacing and defensive 3 seconds (today's game), or the rotations aren't necessary because there is no spacing or defensive 3 seconds (previous eras)

Did you just pull a HurricecanKid quote from a different thread?!? I didn't remember him being in this thread, so I checked... and didn't see him. Did I miss something?

In all seriousness, what is wrong with you?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

It's crazy because Cleveland could've won the series had they had a capable scorer. GS didn't exactly play at their RS level. The chip was up for grabs. And who cares about Lebron's rebounds when he had a backcourt fully capable of grabbing those boards. He should be pushing the tempo and rushing down court while the bugs do their job. He wasn't really a floor general in this series either. The cavs had no offense. Good passer but can't really control the game and force his will.

I have given up in these "anti Lebron" threads.

Here is REALITY.

Lebron joined a team that had gone 17-65 the year before, and immediately doubled their wins. Within a couple of years he led a cast of scrubs to the Cavs first ever Finals. He guided that same cast of goofballs to a team record of 66-16, and then to a 61-21 record. He left that team to go to Miami, and guess what? The Cavs fell to 19-63.

He joined a Heat team that had gone 47-35 and were first round cannon-fodder, and took them to a 58-24 record and a trip to the Finals. In his four seasons with the Heat they went to four straight Finals, won two of them, and set a team record with a 66-16 record. Furthermore, they went 47-18 in the games in which Wade missed. He left the Heat, and they immediately plummeted to a 37-45 record, and missed the playoffs.

He joined a Cavs team that had gone 33-49 the year before, and immediately led them to a 53-29 record. Oh, and in the games in which he missed, they went 3-10. With him... 50-19.

He took that roster, with injuries to his two best teammates, to the Finals, where he single-handedly won two games, and nearly won two more, against a 67-15 Warrior team that had murdered their rivals in what was arguably the toughest conference in many seasons.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]I have given up in these "anti Lebron" threads.

Here is REALITY.

Lebron joined a team that had gone 17-65 the year before, and immediately doubled their wins. Within a couple of years he led a cast of scrubs to the Cavs first ever Finals. He guided that same cast of goofballs to a team record of 66-16, and then to a 61-21 record. He left that team to go to Miami, and guess what? The Cavs fell to 19-63.

He joined a Heat team that had gone 47-35 and were first round cannon-fodder, and took them to a 58-24 record and a trip to the Finals. In his four seasons with the Heat they went to four straight Finals, won two of them, and set a team record with a 66-16 record. Furthermore, they went 47-18 in the games in which Wade missed. He left the Heat, and they immediately plummeted to a 37-45 record, and missed the playoffs.

He joined a Cavs team that had gone 33-49 the year before, and immediately led them to a 53-29 record. Oh, and in the games in which he missed, they went 3-10. With him... 50-19.

He took that roster, with injuries to his two best teammates, to the Finals, where he single-handedly won two games, and nearly won two more, against a 67-15 Warrior team that had murdered their rivals in what was arguably the toughest conference in many seasons.[/QUOTE]

Cliffnotes: 2/6