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[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]You Wilt fans are a joke. You can't concede ANYTHING. It's always someone else's fault. Jesus Christ. You guys are the most dense fans on this board. Maybe it has to do with your age or something but damn. It's like talking to a brick wall. :banghead:[/QUOTE]
tbf he said before 67 which is kind of hard to disagree with. I think Wilt has 2 really black marks. 68 vs Celtics when they were up 3-1 and 69 vs the Celtics in the Finals.
[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]tbf he said before 67 which is kind of hard to disagree with. I think Wilt has 2 really black marks.[B] 68 vs Celtics when they were up 3-1 and 69 vs the Celtics in the Finals[/B].[/QUOTE]
'68 EDF's...
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14[/url]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13[/url]
Wilt and his team were decimated by injuries. Incidently, Curry is getting excuses for playing poorly in all but about 10 minutes of this post-season, because of a mild knee sprain that normally takes 1-2 weeks to heal. BTW, Curry took over 2 weeks off.
Chamberlain PLAYED 48 mpg in a seven game EDF's with a TEAR in his calf muscle, which normally requires walking on crutches for a period of time, and then 4-6 weeks of recovery.
Oh, and he averaged 22 ppg, 25 rpg, and 7 apg in that series.
It was a MIRACLE that he not only played, but that he was still a force.
'69?
All you need to know...
His COACH, "When we pass the ball into Wilt he will score. But it is an ugly offense to watch." So, instead he had Baylor shot-jacking the Lakers down in flames.
BTW, in game seven...Chamberlain with 18 points, 27 rebounds, 10 blocks, 7-8 from the field (and 4-13 from the line) for a TS% of .621, which was the highest of anyone playing in that game (Russell's was .333 BTW.)
Ilt should have came out of the closet before he died...overcompensating b****
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]'68 EDF's...
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14[/url]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13[/url]
Wilt and his team were decimated by injuries. Incidently, Curry is getting excuses for playing poorly in all but about 10 minutes of this post-season, because of a mild knee sprain that normally takes 1-2 weeks to heal. BTW, Curry took over 2 weeks off.
Chamberlain PLAYED 48 mpg in a seven game EDF's with a TEAR in his calf muscle, which normally requires walking on crutches for a period of time, and then 4-6 weeks of recovery.
Oh, and he averaged 22 ppg, 25 rpg, and 7 apg in that series.
It was a MIRACLE that he not only played, but that he was still a force.
'69?
All you need to know...
His COACH, "When we pass the ball into Wilt he will score. But it is an ugly offense to watch." So, instead he had Baylor shot-jacking the Lakers down in flames.
BTW, in game seven...Chamberlain with 18 points, 27 rebounds, 10 blocks, 7-8 from the field (and 4-13 from the line) for a TS% of .621, which was the highest of anyone playing in that game (Russell's was .333 BTW.)[/QUOTE]
Seek help.
[QUOTE=NBAGOAT]tbf he said before 67 which is kind of hard to disagree with. I think Wilt has 2 really black marks. 68 vs Celtics when they were up 3-1 and 69 vs the Celtics in the Finals.[/QUOTE]
I missed the part about pre-1967.
But yes, his two glaring black marks are the two series you mentioned above, ESPECIALLY 1969.
I've seen every documentary there is available on Youtube on this guy and they always have a segment on why he didn't win more. It's a part of his legacy.
And now, let's roll the Laz bullsh*t. :rolleyes: :banghead:
Mel Counts > Wilt Chamberlain in 69 Finals .
[QUOTE=feyki]Mel Counts > Wilt Chamberlain in 69 Finals .[/QUOTE]
Clearly better than Russell then.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Clearly better than Russell then.[/QUOTE]
Both , Counts and Chamberlain was just shot blocker and finisher at the rim as typical centers .
Russell was floor general of Celtics , on both ; offensively and defensiely . He was versatile defender rather than Wilt , who did try make pressure on every player of opponent team . On ball defence , help defence , transition defence .. And he did setup Celtics' offence with his amazing playmaking ability . He dominated the Game 7 with Hondo . And Wilt lost with 40-10-10 + Jerry West . And Mel Counts came to save them from 103-94 to 103-102 in only two minutes when Wilt get injured . Their coach said "we're doing fine without you " and sit him down for the last two minutes . I wonder what would be more shameful than that .
So , Mel Counts > Wilt Chamberlain .
And Bill Russell . Not a best player of that finals . But he was clearly the third best behind of West and Havlicek , as who were heros of finals .
[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]Ilt is well and truly pathetic. Can't even outscore Pippen in the finals !:lol[/QUOTE]
Correct me if im wrong pippen only went to 6 finals and played behind jordan while wilt was 1st option for 7 finals??
[QUOTE=feyki]Both , Counts and Chamberlain was just shot blocker and finisher at the rim as typical centers .
Russell was floor general of Celtics , on both ; offensively and defensiely . He was versatile defender rather than Wilt , who did try make pressure on every player of opponent team . On ball defence , help defence , transition defence .. And he did setup Celtics' offence with his amazing playmaking ability . He dominated the Game 7 with Hondo . And Wilt lost with 40-10-10 + Jerry West . And Mel Counts came to save them from 103-94 to 103-102 in only two minutes when Wilt get injured . Their coach said "we're doing fine without you " and sit him down for the last two minutes . I wonder what would be more shameful than that .
So , Mel Counts > Wilt Chamberlain .
And Bill Russell . Not a best player of that finals . But he was clearly the third best behind of West and Havlicek , as who were heros of finals .[/QUOTE]
Russell "dominated" to the tune of "holding" Wilt to 7/8 FG, 27 rebounds, 10 blocked shots in 41 minutes, then to Mel Counts coming in to supposedly ">" 18/27/10 Wilt? Nice domination there, buddy...
And, yes, the Lakers were doing fine without Wilt, because they had already been on a roll in those last minutes, [B]with [/B]Wilt, so, him going out for a few minutes wasn't [B]initially [/B]enough to offset Wilt's absence. Yet, in the end, despite having cut the margin to 1 point and "playing better without Wilt", they still couldn't get the job done. Because the Lakers in the long run were [B]not [/B]better without Wilt. If you gave them an extra quarter to play and kept Wilt on the bench, the Celtics would probably re-grow the margin and comfortably win.
[QUOTE=feyki]Both , Counts and Chamberlain was just shot blocker and finisher at the rim as typical centers .
Russell was floor general of Celtics , on both ; offensively and defensiely . He was versatile defender rather than Wilt , who did try make pressure on every player of opponent team . On ball defence , help defence , transition defence .. And he did setup Celtics' offence with his amazing playmaking ability . [B]He dominated the Game 7 with Hondo[/B] . And Wilt lost with 40-10-10 + Jerry West . And Mel Counts came to save them from 103-94 to 103-102 in only two minutes when Wilt get injured . Their coach said "we're doing fine without you " and sit him down for the last two minutes . I wonder what would be more shameful than that .
So , Mel Counts > Wilt Chamberlain .
And Bill Russell . Not a best player of that finals . But he was clearly the third best behind of West and Havlicek , as who were heros of finals .[/QUOTE]
Russell the hero of game seven??? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Chamberlain kicked his ass all over the floor.
I knew that Wilt absolutely dominated him in that game seven, but Julizaver added more fuel to the argument this morning. Chamberlain not only poured in 18 points on 7-8 from the floor (and an overall .621 TS%), but he also blocked TEN shots.
Furthermore the 4th quarter of game seven is on YouTube. But, alas, you won't find much of Russell in that footage. He went into HIDING early in the period after he picked up his 5th personal foul. BTW, Wilt had picked up his 5th with a couple of minutes left in the third quarter, and yet continued to dominate the glass and defensively.
Immediately after Russell picked up his 5th, the Lakers went right into Wilt, who went right around the "matador" defense of Russell for an easy layin. However, the idiotic Laker coach, "the Butcher" never called Wilt's number again.
As for the last few minutes...
you failed to mention that from the 10 minute mark, until a little less than the six minute mark, the Lakers knocked TEN points off of a 17 point deficit. That's when Wilt came up lame (BTW, the same leg that he would shred early the very next season.) So, in a span of a little over four minutes, they wiped out 10 points, and then in the last five+ minutes, and with Wilt anchored to the bench by "the Butcher", they could only cut five more points off the margin.
BTW, regarding Wilt's injury (which even the Butcher acknowledged), he had as many rebounds, with the injury...two, in a span of two straight possessions, as Russell did the entire quarter. Overall, and in five minutes less, Wilt outrebounded Russell in the 4th quarter by a 7-2 margin.
As for your boy Counts...he shot 4-13 from the floor in that last game...including a miss at the minute mark, and then a key turnover with less than a minute remaining.
TS%'s in that game seven...
West... .542
Baylor... .408
Counts... .321
Russell... .333
Wilt... .621.
Incidently, here was the idiotic Van Breda Kolff's offensive philosophy...
[url]https://books.google.com/books?id=9BaqPfGcI84C&pg=PA355&lpg=PA355&dq=butch+van+breda+kolff+had+chamberlain+playing+the+high+post&source=bl&ots=rQxpX4Ys7l&sig=oosFtJ3aB-NUrdTlS-5xi8-eHyI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi70fWD0svKAhVDuYMKHSvWDRgQ6AEIQTAJ#v=onepage&q=butch%20van%20breda%20kolff%20had%20chamberlain%20playing%20the%20high%20post&f=false[/url]
"When we pass the ball into Wilt, he will score. But it is an ugly offense to watch."
So, he had the greatest low post player in NBA history, playing the high post...so that Baylor could freely roam the baselines, and shoot .385 from the field...which was the worst by any Laker in the post-season. Oh, and in three of the losses... 4-18, 2-14, and a game seven of 8-22.
Next...
They went much better w/out Wilt and these fan boys keep excusing :oldlol: .
Pathetic ..
[QUOTE=feyki]Both , Counts and Chamberlain was just shot blocker and finisher at the rim as typical centers .
Russell was floor general of Celtics , on both ; offensively and defensiely . He was versatile defender rather than Wilt , who did try make pressure on every player of opponent team . On ball defence , help defence , transition defence .. And he did setup Celtics' offence with his amazing playmaking ability . He dominated the Game 7 with Hondo . And Wilt lost with 40-10-10 + Jerry West . And Mel Counts came to save them from 103-94 to 103-102 in only two minutes when Wilt get injured . Their coach said "we're doing fine without you " and sit him down for the last two minutes . I wonder what would be more shameful than that .
So , Mel Counts > Wilt Chamberlain .
And Bill Russell . Not a best player of that finals . But he was clearly the third best behind of West and Havlicek , as who were heros of finals .[/QUOTE]
Jerry West himself would scold you for trying to diminish the story of Wilt and Bredakoffs feud and place this false idea that Chamberlain was outplayed by Counts. The ego and bitterness of a coach that hated Wilt and WANTED to win without him desperately enough to keep him sat is believed by the overwhelming majority of teammates and fans and even the owner of the team to have COST them the game and championship - as such that coach was no longer the Lakers coach, and Chamberlain stayed with the team. Taking them to 3 more Finals trips, and winning a FMVP and a title for the Lakers. Wilt did that, not the coach so don't get it twisted. Chamberlain of course gets half the blame for feuding with the coach in the first place as it was a clash of two men with an ego and different philosophies of how to best be used on the team - but as far as his on court performance? Your version of the story is nonsense. Shameful to try and diminish it and suggest the game was played better without him. Counts hit a few shots in that last 2 minutes, but he had nowhere near the overall presence of Chamberlain, and shots like the one Don Nelson made are EXACTLY the kind of shots a player like Chamberlain (and not a player like Counts) will deter or reject.
[QUOTE=feyki]They went much better w/out Wilt and these fan boys keep excusing :oldlol: .
Pathetic ..[/QUOTE]
Unlike the fading Russell, Chamberlain was a FORCE in that game seven. And your boy Counts flat-out choked in the last minute.
BTW, when West found out that the Butcher had kept Wilt on the bench in the last five minutes, he was furious. VBK knew he was about to be fired, and promptly quit.
As Robert Cherry wrote...
Van Breda Kolff's hatred for Wilt cost the city of Los Angeles their first ever title, and basically cost VBK his coaching career.
Of course, WILT would lead the Lakers to a title a couple of years later.
Revised...
[QUOTE][B]1. 3/22/62: [COLOR="DarkRed"]56[/COLOR] points, 35 rebounds, 11 blocks[/B]
[B]2. 4/16/64: [COLOR="DarkRed"]39[/COLOR] points, 30 rebounds, 12 blocks[/B]
[B]3. 3/26/65: [COLOR="DarkRed"]30[/COLOR] pts, 15 rebs, 10 asts[/B]
[B]4. 3/31/65: [COLOR="DarkRed"]38[/COLOR] pts, 26 rebs, 10 blks[/B]
[B]5. 4/4/65: [COLOR="DarkRed"]33[/COLOR] pts, 31 rebs, 11 blks[/B]
[B]6. 4/13/65: [COLOR="DarkRed"]30[/COLOR] pts, 26 rebs, 13 blks[/B]
[B]7. 3/22/67: [COLOR="DarkRed"]37[/COLOR] pts, 27 rebs, 11 asts[/B]
8. 3/24/67: 16 pts, 30 rebs, 19 asts
[B]9. 3/31/67: 24 pts, 32 rebs, 13 asts, 12 blks (quad-double)[/B]
[B]10. 4/9/67: 20 pts, 22 rebs, 10 asts[/B]
[B]11. 4/11/67: 29 pts, 36 rebs, 13 asts[/B]
12. 4/14/67: 16 pts, 33 rebs, 10 asts
13. 4/16/67: 10 pts, 38 rebs, 10 asts, 10 blks (quad-double)
14. 4/20/69: 16 pts, 29 rebs, 16 blks
15. 4/23/69: 15 pts, 23 rebs, 13 blks
16. 5/5/69: 18 pts, 27 rebs, 10 blks
[B]17. 4/5/70: [COLOR="DarkRed"]36[/COLOR] pts, 14 rebs, 10 blks[/B]
18. 4/7/70: 12 pts, 26 rebs, 11 asts, 11 blks (quad-double)
[B]19. 4/9/70: [COLOR="DarkRed"]30[/COLOR] pts, 27 rebs, 12 blks[/B]
20. 4/19/70: 11 pts, 21 rebs, 10 blks
21. 3/30/71: 12 pts, 23 rebs, 10 blks
[B]22. 4/22/72: 20 pts, 24 rebs, 10 blks[/B]
[B]23. 5/7/72: 24 pts, 29 rebs, 10 blks [/B]
24. 4/8/73: 11 pts, 30 rebs, 12 blks[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
[B]24[/B] known Triple-Doubles, [B]14[/B] of which were 20+ point triple-doubles, including [B][COLOR="DarkRed"]9[/COLOR][/B] of 30+, and [B]THE[/B] highest scoring triple-double in NBA playoff history.
:sleeping What was we were talking about ? :sleeping
These bro's have creativity as f.kk . Don't repeat yourselves .
According to official stats, Wilt has zero quadruple doubles
According to made up stats, he has lots :applause: :applause: :applause:
[QUOTE=sd3035]According to official stats, Wilt has zero quadruple doubles
According to made up stats, he has lots :applause: :applause: :applause:[/QUOTE]
"Official" stats.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
"Officially" the NBA record for blocked shots in a game is 17.
How about an SI article on a nationally televised game in which Chamberlain blocked 23 shots...
[url]http://www.si.com/vault/1969/01/27/559068/on-topbut-in-trouble[/url]
[QUOTE]So the Lakers walk the ball up the court, get arranged and then, as VBK says, start "to grind it out." The Lakers do not often make 100 points now. "Defense is the thing we're really living on," van Breda Kolff admits, [B]and Chamberlain has been superb, sometimes even awesome, on defense. In a recent game on [COLOR="DarkRed"]national television[/COLOR] he [COLOR="DarkRed"]blocked 23 shots[/COLOR] against Phoenix[/B].[/QUOTE]
Of course, there are many more games in which Chamberlain recorded 20+ blocks, and even some in the 30's.
He has two known 20-20-20 triple doubles, as well.
One is the conventional (and "official") 22 point, 25 rebound, and 21 assist game. And the other was a 34 point, 33 rebound, 20 block game (against HOFer Walt Bellamy BTW.)
[QUOTE=feyki]:sleeping What was we were talking about ? :sleeping
These bro's have creativity as f.kk . Don't repeat yourselves .[/QUOTE]
It always amazes me with the "bashers" here.
On any topic involving Chamberlain...they immediately claim "choker" or "loser", or "30-22-18" (without any context BTW.)
Then, when an actual knowledgeable poster points out just how CLUTCH, and DOMINANT he was in his post-season play...then they inevitably bring up his '69 Finals...as if to show that that was how he ALWAYS played in the post-season.
The REALITY was, that was the WORST series in Wilt's entire post-season career. And even then, he still outplayed a Top-5 GOAT.
Of course, it was his COACH who limited him in that post-season, and it was his COACH with a variety of BLUNDERS, that cost that team a title.
And the one constant with Chamberlain was that he ALWAYS played brilliant DEFENSE. Both one-on-one, and in rim protection.
I have posted the numbers before, but he was holding Russell to series of .399, .397, .386, and even .356 shooting. He was holding Thurmond to series of .392, .373, and even .343. He held Bellamy, in a season in which Bells shot .541 against the league, to a .421 series. And of course, he held a peak Kareem, in seasons in which he shot .577 and .574 against the league... to .481 and .457 (and .414 in the last four games.) And all while consistently blocking 7+ shots per game.
On top of all of that, he was NEVER outrebounded by an opposing center in ANY of his 29 post-season series (EIGHT of which were against RUSSELL.) He was outrebounded in ONE of those 29, in a four game series, in which a PF outrebounded him by a 21.0 rpg to 20.0 rpg. When the two met again a few years later as CENTERS, a 35 year old Wilt, playing 47 mpg in that series, outrebounded a 31 year old Lucas, playing 46 mpg, by a 23.2 rpg to 9.8 rpg margin.
And, of course, a peak Chamberlain averaged 30.4 ppg, with 27.0 rpg, and 4.5 apg...on a .515 FG% (in post-seasons that shot about .425 in that same span), and probably with at least 7 blocks per game. In a span of 67 games. Think about that... a string of 67 consecutive games, in which Chamberlain AVERAGED a 30-27-5-7 stat-line, while shooting nearly ten percentage points above the post-season league average...AND, all while slaughtering his HOF peers in scoring, rebounding, blocked shots, and holding them BELOW the post-season league eFG%.
A "scoring" Wilt AVERAGED 33 ppg in his playoff career. Included were post-season runs of 33 ppg, 35 ppg, 35 ppg, and 37 ppg, And included in those were playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg. And included in those 52 games were 11 games of 40+, including FOUR of 50+.
And he wasn't just crushing "average" NBA centers in those games, either. He had series against RUSSELL of 28 ppg, 29 ppg, 30 ppg, 31 ppg, and 34 ppg.
He was dragging last place rosters to within an eyelash of beating the greatest dynasty in NBA history, and when he finally had an EQUAL roster, and that was healthy, he DESTROYED the GOAT dynasty (and RUSSELL.)
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]It always amazes me with the "bashers" here.
On any topic involving Chamberlain...they immediately claim "choker" or "loser", or "30-22-18" (without any context BTW.)
Then, when an actual knowledgeable poster points out just how CLUTCH, and DOMINANT he was in his post-season play...then they inevitably bring up his '69 Finals...as if to show that that was how he ALWAYS played in the post-season.
The REALITY was, that was the WORST series in Wilt's entire post-season career. And even then, he still outplayed a Top-5 GOAT.
Of course, it was his COACH who limited him in that post-season, and it was his COACH with a variety of BLUNDERS, that cost that team a title.
And the one constant with Chamberlain was that he ALWAYS played brilliant DEFENSE. Both one-on-one, and in rim protection.
I have posted the numbers before, but he was holding Russell to series of .399, .397, .386, and even .356 shooting. He was holding Thurmond to series of .392, .373, and even .343. He held Bellamy, in a season in which Bells shot .541 against the league, to a .421 series. And of course, he held a peak Kareem, in seasons in which he shot .577 and .574 against the league... to .481 and .457 (and .414 in the last four games.) And all while consistently blocking 7+ shots per game.
On top of all of that, he was NEVER outrebounded by an opposing center in ANY of his 29 post-season series (EIGHT of which were against RUSSELL.) He was outrebounded in ONE of those 29, in a four game series, in which a PF outrebounded him by a 21.0 rpg to 20.0 rpg. When the two met again a few years later as CENTERS, a 35 year old Wilt, playing 47 mpg in that series, outrebounded a 31 year old Lucas, playing 46 mpg, by a 23.2 rpg to 9.8 rpg margin.
And, of course, a peak Chamberlain averaged 30.4 ppg, with 27.0 rpg, and 4.5 apg...on a .515 FG% (in post-seasons that shot about .425 in that same span), and probably with at least 7 blocks per game. In a span of 67 games. Think about that... a string of 67 consecutive games, in which Chamberlain AVERAGED a 30-27-5-7 stat-line, while shooting nearly ten percentage points above the post-season league average...AND, all while slaughtering his HOF peers in scoring, rebounding, blocked shots, and holding them BELOW the post-season league eFG%.
A "scoring" Wilt AVERAGED 33 ppg in his playoff career. Included were post-season runs of 33 ppg, 35 ppg, 35 ppg, and 37 ppg, And included in those were playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg. And included in those 52 games were 11 games of 40+, including FOUR of 50+.
And he wasn't just crushing "average" NBA centers in those games, either. He had series against RUSSELL of 28 ppg, 29 ppg, 30 ppg, 31 ppg, and 34 ppg.
He was dragging last place rosters to within an eyelash of beating the greatest dynasty in NBA history, and when he finally had an EQUAL roster, and that was healthy, he DESTROYED the GOAT dynasty (and RUSSELL.)[/QUOTE]
Nothing changed , zero vision over there .
Playmaking >>>>> Points
Defence also includes on ball and help defence . Of course , you couldn't know those , your god had not even a little bit of those in his play .
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]Wilt lost the NCAA championship game. Why? Because he was so good, the team just tried to get him the ball. What did their opponents do? Swarm him and force others to beat them. [B]A great player attracts the attention and sets others guys up, not try to play 1 on 3.[/B] [/QUOTE]
I supposed he did exaclty that - he shot only 13 times (6-13), while his teamates combine shot 9-34. I think the full game is on youtube.
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival] On the flip side, Russell went to a school (University of SF) that hadn't done NOTHING prior to him going there and won 2 NCAA titles. Coincidence? Please. Russell played to win, not put up gaudy individual numbers which might not have been the best for the team. [/QUOTE]
Russell played to win in the way he is best at, by playing defense - he can't be the primary offensive weapon although his college stats are very impresive in that department. Still for me the GOAT college player is Lew Alcindor. Just as a note University of SF were 1949 champions, but it doesn't change anything.
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival] The same situation stood at the pro level. [B]Wilt was the superior individual talent but Russell was the better winner[/B]. In a vacuum, yes, Wilt was superior. He should be. He had 4-5 inches and 50-60 lbs on Russell. And you also factor in the mentality that both brought, [B]Wilt being somewhat aloof[/B] and not living bball day and night while Russell tried to get every advantage mentally and physically every time he stepped on the court. [/QUOTE]
I am glad you admitted it, but we all shall agree that both Russell and Wilt were not born the athletes they were - they worked to developed their abilities. If Chamberlain was stronger than his opponents and can ran faster, jump higher it is because of the work he put on, not that he was born like this. It is advantage he build in the gym and shall took credit for this, not just "he was taller and stronger and that's why he should dominate and win everything". Example - a lot of fans argued vs Shaq that he was just some big fat boy who could do only dunking and play 3 feet around the rim as if it is easy to have 7 foot 340 pounds body and do the stuff Shaq do. About Wilt bein aloof, what persons and teamates were Russell, Kareem ... MJ, Kobe ?
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival] [B]All this stuff matters. It's the little things that separate winners from losers[/B]. When you keep on posting individual stats without proper context, it does make me question if you ever played the game while ignoring the mental aspect of the game.[/QUOTE]
I am agree with that, especcially with the bolded part. The little things like teamates, coach, the system under which you are playing and so on. Basketball is team sport not one on one game. The teams won the chips, not the individual player. Russell was paid to defend the rim and Wilt was paid to score - that is what both players do. Russell could not outplay Wilt for a series, it was imposible. But his teams outplayed Wilt's most of the time - simple as that.
Bla bla bla excuses
op with 21 known suicide attempts
[QUOTE=feyki]Mel Counts > Wilt Chamberlain in 69 Finals .[/QUOTE]
Mel Counts is related to UFC Fighter Chael Sonnen.
That's more than his known Finals PPG :applause: :applause:
[QUOTE=feyki]Mel Counts > Wilt Chamberlain in 69 Finals .[/QUOTE]
Both Wilt and Russell were better than Mel Counts in 69. Russell averaged 19 reb a game at the tail end of his career.:oldlol: and Wilt avg 20 and 21 in 69. Way better than Counts.
[QUOTE=MiseryCityTexas]Both Wilt and Russell were better than Mel Counts in 69. Russell averaged 19 reb a game at the tail end of his career.:oldlol: and Wilt avg 20 and 21 in 69. Way better than Counts.[/QUOTE]
I was talking about Game 7 . If you want , watch 4th quarter of that game ; and come again .
nbastat.net has yet another 20+ point triple double...
Game seven of the '62 EDF's... 22-22- and 12 blocks.
Bringing his KNOWN total to [B]25[/B] playoff triple doubles.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]nbastat.net has yet another 20+ point triple double...
Game seven of the '62 EDF's... 22-22- and 12 blocks.
Bringing his KNOWN total to [B]25[/B] playoff triple doubles.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
And THAT is something LeSHRIVEL will never pass.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]nbastat.net has yet another 20+ point triple double...
Game seven of the '62 EDF's... 22-22- and 12 blocks.
Bringing his KNOWN total to [B]25[/B] playoff triple doubles.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
Not surprised considering anyone can scribble out the scoresheet and change the numbers to whatever they want em' to say.
If they didn't want to scribble something out that was wrong, they just said F it cause that would look bad.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx5F6ThXAAAdO40.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://001-jk-files.s3.amazonaws.com/images/boxscores/196011240PHW.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://001-jk-files.s3.amazonaws.com/images/boxscores/196004070STL.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Not surprised considering anyone can scribble out the scoresheet and change the numbers to whatever they want em' to say.
If they didn't want to scribble something out that was wrong, they just said F it cause that would look bad.
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx5F6ThXAAAdO40.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://001-jk-files.s3.amazonaws.com/images/boxscores/196011240PHW.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://001-jk-files.s3.amazonaws.com/images/boxscores/196004070STL.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Yep...you won't see that happen in today's NBA, right?
Like Shaq's 24-28-15 game...which was, in REALITY, a 24-21-8 game.
I didn't see a boxscore scribbled out and changed on Shaq's game.
Needless to say, today's stats are kept much tighter than they were back in the 60's. Barely any footage then to watch and challenge [I]alleged[/I] "official stats"
To be honest it would be nice if the authors on NBAstats.net kept more track of their sources. Saying "Long Beach Press-Telegram" isn't good enough. They really should have the issue and page number so other researchers can confirm it. I'm not saying this data isn't true just that it's hard to verify. And like a few people pointed out, many stats weren't even recorded and there are no tapes so even the published numbers of unofficial stats are iffy.
Anyways in the 1970 postseason he allegedly had four games of 10+ blocks which makes his [B]zero[/B] blocks and total defensive disappearance in Game 7 even more inexcusable. You can't blame injuries when he was crushing other opponents earlier in the same playoffs.
Lazeruss, did you check those nice stats they added for the '69 Finals? Wilt is thought as having averaged 7.7 blocks in his, oh, so "sucky" '69 series and around 8 during the whole postseason.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]I didn't see a boxscore scribbled out and changed on Shaq's game.
Needless to say, today's stats are kept much tighter than they were back in the 60's. Barely any footage then to watch and challenge [I]alleged[/I] "official stats"[/QUOTE]
Correct. And knowing how people root against Goliath winning, maybe Wilt had 12 rings and multiple 100 point games after all.
[QUOTE]
1. 3/22/62... 56 pts, 36 rebs, 12 blks Game 5 of 5 game series
2. 4/5/62... 22 pts, 22 rebs, 12 blks Game 7
3. 4/16/64... 39 pts, 30 rebs, 12 blks. Game 7
4. 3/26/65... 30 pts, 15 rebs, 10 asts
5. 3/31/65... 38 pts, 26 rebs, 10 blks Clincher
6. 4/4/65.... 33 pts, 31 rebs, 11 blks
7. 4/13/65... 30 pts, 26 rebs, 13 blks
8. 3/22/67... 37 pts, 27 rebs, 11 asts
9. 3/24/67... 16 pts, 30 rebs, 19 asts
10. 3/31/67... 24 pts, 32 rebs, 13 asts, 12 blks (quad-double)
11. 4/9/67.... 20 pts, 22 rebs, 10 asts
12. 4/11/67...29 pts, 36 rebs, 13 asts Clincher
13. 4/14/67... 16 pts, 33 rebs, 10 asts
14. 4/16/67... 10 pts, 38 rebs, 10 asts, 10 blks (quad-double)
15. 4/20/69... 16 pts, 29 rebs, 16 blks
16. 4/23/69... 15 pts, 23 rebs, 13 blks
17. 5/5/69... 18 pts, 27 rebs, 10 blks Game 7
18. 4/5/70.... 36 pts, 14 rebs, 10 blks
19. 4/7/70.... 12 pts, 26 rebs, 11 asts, 11 blks (quad-double)
20. 4/9/70.... 30 pts, 27 rebs, 12 blks Game 7
21. 4/19/70... 11 pts, 21 rebs, 10 blks Clincher
22. 3/30/71... 12 pts, 23 rebs, 10 blks
23. 4/22/72... 20 pts, 24 rebs, 10 blks Clincher (and against KAJ)
24. 5/7/72.... 24 pts, 29 rebs, 10 blks * (CavsFTW with 8) Clincher
25. 4/8/73... 11 pts, 30 rebs, 12 blks
[/QUOTE]
BTW, everyone acknowledges that Wilt's '69 post season was his worst, especially his Finals... BUT, thanks to the Long Beach Examiner and the LA Examiner...we now KNOW that Chamberlain blocked 150 shots in his 17 playoff games (8.8 bpg)...and in his Finals... 54 in 7 games (7.7 bpg.)
[QUOTE=dankok8][B]NBAstats.net doesn't have Wilt with 10 blocks in 1969 Game 7 vs. Boston.[/B] Overall he's credited there with 23 games of 10+ blocks, not 25 games. And to be honest it would be nice if the authors kept more track of their sources. Saying "Long Beach Press-Telegram" isn't good enough. They really should have the issue and page number so researchers can confirm it. I'm not saying this data isn't true just that it's hard to verify. And like a few people pointed out, many stats weren't even recorded and there are no tapes so even the published numbers of unofficial stats are iffy.
Anyways in the 1970 postseason he allegedly had four games of 10+ blocks which makes his [B]zero[/B] blocks and total defensive disappearance in Game 7 even more inexcusable. You can't blame injuries when he was crushing other opponents earlier in the same playoffs.[/QUOTE]
Check again my friend.
10 blocks in game seven of the '69 Finals.
[QUOTE=Psileas[B]]Lazeruss, did you check those nice stats they added for the '69 Finals? Wilt is thought as having averaged 7.7 blocks in his, oh, so "sucky" '69 series and around 8 during the whole postseason[/B].
Correct. And knowing how people root against Goliath winning, maybe Wilt had 12 rings and multiple 100 point games after all.[/QUOTE]
You just beat me to it.
I posted all of his known Playoff Triple Doubles and right after that his '69 playoff block numbers (7.7 bpg in his Finals... and 8.8 bpg overall...in his 17 playoff games.)
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]You just beat me to it.
I posted all of his known Playoff Triple Doubles and right after that his '69 playoff block numbers (7.7 bpg in his Finals... and 8.8 bpg overall...in his 17 playoff games.)[/QUOTE]
[B]Can you post the source for these block averages?
[/B]
Heck NBAstats has block tallies from some games listed as estimates but then counts them in another document.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Check again my friend.
10 blocks in game seven of the '69 Finals.[/QUOTE]
Ya I misread it. They had four games labelled as a "finals game".
[QUOTE=dankok8]To be honest it would be nice if the authors on NBAstats.net kept more track of their sources. Saying "Long Beach Press-Telegram" isn't good enough. They really should have the issue and page number so other researchers can confirm it. I'm not saying this data isn't true just that it's hard to verify. And like a few people pointed out, many stats weren't even recorded and there are no tapes so even the published numbers of unofficial stats are iffy.
[B]Anyways in the 1970 postseason he allegedly had four games of 10+ blocks which makes his [B]zero[/B] blocks and total defensive disappearance in Game 7 even more inexcusable. You can't blame injuries when he was crushing other opponents earlier in the same playoffs[/B].[/QUOTE]
Oh of course. After all this is WILT we are talking about, right. He is held to a MUCH higher standard than anyone else.
Here was a Wilt...ONLY FOUR MONTHS AFTER MAJOR KNEE SURGERY...putting up a 23-24 .625 Finals...but getting ripped for not blocking any shots in a game seven.
I have already pointed out the FLOP JOBS that players like a HEALTHY MJ, and KAJ put up in clinching series games, and following huge prior games. BUT, yes, Jordan gets excused for following up a 63 point playoff game with an 19 point game in a blowout loss; or KAJ following his brilliant game six of the '74 Finals, with a POS game seven, on his home floor, in a blowout loss, and getting outplayed by a foul-plagued Cowens in the process.
But again...this was WILT. Even on one leg he was EXPECTED to put up 45-27 games on 20-27 shooting in EVERY ONE of them.