Tim Duncan is greater than Shaq, and here are the numbers to PROVE it

[QUOTE=KIWI]now i don't agree Duncan is better but hes very close!

just a question had shaq been a forward how many first team defensive honors would he have had:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

0 :eek:

poeticism707 for president! :applause:

[QUOTE=D

poet is an idiot, and here is the thread to PROVE it

[QUOTE=KIWI]now i don't agree Duncan is better but hes very close!

just a question had shaq been a forward how many first team defensive honors would he have had:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
[B][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Like Don said from post 1, it is very close. But Shaq's dominance gives him the slight edge. Shaq isn't a foward. He is too big too be a foward and wouldn't guard fowards. But you can see Duncan being a Center. He is the right size. [/FONT][/B]

[QUOTE=D

if you wanna talk numbers, have a look at some stats from the playoffs in shaq's dominant laker years

[QUOTE=Timmy D for MVP]But then on the flip side, no one would doubt Tim Duncan if he was a stat whore, and tried to go for glory instead of accept his role. His numbers would be jaw dropping, but thankfully he is team oriented, and only wants to win. So, but I see what you're saying and it's very valid, very valid indeed.[/QUOTE]
[B][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Whats your point? Duncan wasn't a stat whore sure. But your acting like Shaq was. Duncan is great and is very close to Shaq, thats already a great thing[/FONT][/B]

[QUOTE=Borat]poet is an idiot, and here is the thread to PROVE it[/QUOTE]

says the guy named Borat[IMG]http://emoticons4u.com/fingers/fing02.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=poeticism707]But Shaq is only 4-6! I guess you forgot to mention that Don? I guess you also forgot That Shaq has been Swept 5 TIMES in the playoffs, most of any player in NBA history? What do you think of that Don?
[SIZE="5"]That is Dirk vs Warriors times 5!!![/SIZE][/QUOTE]
[B][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]So what if Shaq has been swept 5 times. A loss is a loss. It doesn't matter if he lost in 7 or 4. The destination is the same, home.[/FONT][/B]

What the hell is everyone doing here? There are a few things this guy does that makes it clear neither reality or the opinions of others really is a concern.

For one he said

:

[QUOTE]According to their career numbers and stats[/QUOTE]

Which(almost) without exception is only said by wrong people.


Secondly he has bumped a topic probably a dozen times often minutes apart just for the sake of having more people see what he had to say. The vast majority of people who do that only do it because the people who read what they say just arent impressed enough to respond.


Third....anyone who is going to judge two guys whos game goes so far beyond numbers and present literally nothing related to what happens on a game to game on the court basis.....just doesnt get basketball.

Once you remove on court play from consideration and rely on award voting(often uneven due to position difference) and stats(never accurate in judging total impact) you clearly care more for being hard to call wrong than being accurate. Because nobody can argue a number. It is what it is. Gives people who dont want to look deeper a way to claim they know what is right and it cant be argued.

Post scoring and impact on defensive gamplanning can be argued. Man to man D can be argued. Passing, intimidation, and stepping up when it matters....they can be argued.

The results of a 10 yearold media poll cant.

So its pointed out over and over and over in an attempt to frame the argument in the way they wish. Because if you make the argument about numbers(as irrelevant as they may be) its a lot easier to say "Look im right!" without needing to know what youre talking about.

They are the arguments that go on forever because you cant really talk about the numbers/awards. You can talk about basketball. But these people dont want to talk basketball because talking basketball can make you look ignorant.

But everyone looks smart when all they talk about are things nobody can argue with.

Is this really new information? Am I really the only one to notice these people?

[QUOTE=D

[QUOTE=D

[QUOTE=KIWI]says the guy named Borat[IMG]http://emoticons4u.com/fingers/fing02.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

hey fool, Borat is an alias that I use occasionally to mock the fools like you on the board.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]What the hell is everyone doing here? There are a few things this guy does that makes it clear neither reality or the opinions of others really is a concern.

For one he said

:



Which(almost) without exception is only said by wrong people.


Secondly he has bumped a topic probably a dozen times often minutes apart just for the sake of having more people see what he had to say. The vast majority of people who do that only do it because the people who read what they say just arent impressed enough to respond.


Third....anyone who is going to judge two guys whos game goes so far beyond numbers and present literally nothing related to what happens on a game to game on the court basis.....just doesnt get basketball.

Once you remove on court play from consideration and rely on award voting(often uneven due to position difference) and stats(never accurate in judging total impact) you clearly care more for being hard to call wrong than being accurate. Because nobody can argue a number. It is what it is. Gives people who dont want to look deeper a way to claim they know what is right and it cant be argued.

Post scoring and impact on defensive gamplanning can be argued. Man to man D can be argued. Passing, intimidation, and stepping up when it matters....they can be argued.

The results of a 10 yearold media poll cant.

So its pointed out over and over and over in an attempt to frame the argument in the way they wish. Because if you make the argument about numbers(as irrelevant as they may be) its a lot easier to say "Look im right!" without needing to know what youre talking about.

They are the arguments that go on forever because you cant really talk about the numbers/awards. You can talk about basketball. But these people dont want to talk basketball because talking basketball can make you look ignorant.

But everyone looks smart when all they talk about are things nobody can argue with.

Is this really new information? Am I really the only one to notice these people?[/QUOTE]

That's because most people on ISH and in the world think Shaq is the Hulk, and mentally think Shaq has averaged 50 pts and 50 reb through his career. This just brings everyone back to earth, knowing Shaq has been stepped over in history by TD.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]What the hell is everyone doing here? There are a few things this guy does that makes it clear neither reality or the opinions of others really is a concern.

For one he said

:



Which(almost) without exception is only said by wrong people.


Secondly he has bumped a topic probably a dozen times often minutes apart just for the sake of having more people see what he had to say. The vast majority of people who do that only do it because the people who read what they say just arent impressed enough to respond.


Third....anyone who is going to judge two guys whos game goes so far beyond numbers and present literally nothing related to what happens on a game to game on the court basis.....just doesnt get basketball.

Once you remove on court play from consideration and rely on award voting(often uneven due to position difference) and stats(never accurate in judging total impact) you clearly care more for being hard to call wrong than being accurate. Because nobody can argue a number. It is what it is. Gives people who dont want to look deeper a way to claim they know what is right and it cant be argued.

Post scoring and impact on defensive gamplanning can be argued. Man to man D can be argued. Passing, intimidation, and stepping up when it matters....they can be argued.

The results of a 10 yearold media poll cant.

So its pointed out over and over and over in an attempt to frame the argument in the way they wish. Because if you make the argument about numbers(as irrelevant as they may be) its a lot easier to say "Look im right!" without needing to know what youre talking about.

They are the arguments that go on forever because you cant really talk about the numbers/awards. You can talk about basketball. But these people dont want to talk basketball because talking basketball can make you look ignorant.

But everyone looks smart when all they talk about are things nobody can argue with.

Is this really new information? Am I really the only one to notice these people?[/QUOTE]
[B][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]
Numbers/Awards can be good when they are valid. This one isn't valid because there is a reason for it and that is that Shaq was a Center and Duncan was a Foward. So therefore, the awards aren't that valid but you can make adjustments. In many cases though, its ok to use awards as long as they are valid[/FONT][/B]

[QUOTE=D

[QUOTE=poeticism707]I thought he needed one more title and finals mvp, until I actually compared their careers. Then it was obvious that if Tim Duncan walked away right now in the middle of the playoffs, it wouldn't matter, because he already has passed Shaq.[/QUOTE]
[B][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]Like Don said earlier, Don doesn't like stupidity. No one is agreeing with you, even the Spur fans. You want to know why? Because they understand the opposing argument and realize that it is stronger than your argument. You haven't understood yet. The awards advantage of Duncan should not be counted too much because Duncan is a F and Shaq is a C making it tougher for Shaq to get his awards. And since that was your main argument, your done. Shaq has more titles and more NBA Finals and that puts him above Duncan [/FONT][/B]

[QUOTE=poeticism707]Shaq makes excuses for himself and so does everyone else. According to most, he should have won the MVP 15 years and counting. Also, we're going to throw out awards, then we are only left with titles as the man. Even then, Tim Duncan is on the verge of passing Shaq.[/QUOTE]
[B][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]According to most Shaq should've won 15 MVPs? Ok kid, your delusional. Show me the most that say that and you win this argument. Otherwise, you are just talking out of your @ss and don't know whats really going on[/FONT][/B]

oh no.. a cartoon is giving me 'the bird'.

go shag a sheep thats wearing a Duncan mask

[QUOTE=D

[QUOTE=Borat]oh no.. a cartoon is giving me 'the bird'.

go shag a sheep thats wearing a Duncan mask[/QUOTE]

:applause:

Wow, this thread has been to mountain top, and seen the promised land.

[QUOTE=poeticism707]Please Don, don't speak of stupidity as though it were a vice and then subscribe to it. Shaq is not excused for his poor performance both in All NBA selections, as well All Defensive selections. The fact Shaq didn't perform well against his competition is evident. Of course his bickering with teammates, breaking up teams, poor conditioning, delaying surgery and missing chunks of the season, etc all contributed to his lack of dominance. Shaq gets the lion's share for winning, Shaq gets the lion's share for lack of dominance in winning and losing (as the numbers show). Maybe he could have accomplished mroe, but he has no one to blame but himself. Or would you penalize Duncan for Shaq's POTENTIAL, what he has not done? Once again, is stupidity at its ugliest.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
[B][FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]
So just say your whole argument in 1 line. Duncan is better than Shaq becaue hs is a PF and Shaq is a C. Because thats all you have. Your main argument is Duncan's got more awards and that is the reason why he has more awards. Because Duncan is a PF and Shaq is a C. Not because Duncan is actually a better defender or player, but because he plays PF and Shaq plays C, and you and I both know that is why Duncan has more awards.


So with your main argument really being Duncan is a PF and O'Neal is a C, Don would say your main argument is very stupid

Don is done with this thread[/FONT][/B]

Is there a specific reason why all this Shaq VS Duncan talk started up? Or is it just a case people feel a need to compare everyone to everyone else.

shaq is a center.. duncans a forward

[QUOTE=El Kabong]Is there a specific reason why all this Shaq VS Duncan talk started up? Or is it just a case people feel a need to compare everyone to everyone else.[/QUOTE]
Who's know ... I'm about to start a Shaq O'Neal vs Jermaine O'Neal thread just for the hell of it.

[QUOTE=Borat]hey fool, Borat is an alias that I use occasionally to mock the fools like you on the board.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol: im really scared honestly i don't care who you are![IMG]http://emoticons4u.com/fingers/fing23.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]Who's know ... I'm about to start a Shaq O'Neal vs Jermaine O'Neal thread just for the hell of it.[/QUOTE]
Screw that, let's start a Mugsy Bogus VS Monute Bol thread.

[QUOTE=poeticism707]Tim Duncan is greater than Shaq and Olajuwaon, unless KG wins 3 titles soon, he isn't in the Equation.[/QUOTE]


I respectfully disagree

Olajuwon > Tim Duncan

other than that we :cheers:

[QUOTE=IBLEEDGREEN43]shaq is a center.. duncans a forward[/QUOTE]

WOw, way to state an argument that has been repeated over, and over, and over, without adding anything new to it.

:applause:

Here is a very enlightening Tim Duncan article...

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070509[/url]

[QUOTE=EricForman]haha, finally Tim Duncan has a annoying, biased, homer, dumbass fan that Kobe and Dirk has so many of on this board.

poetcism is to Duncan what Eliteballer/konex/oneway is to Kobe, PleezeBelieve is to Lebron, and Glove20 is to GP, and Howard5Nowitzki41 is to Dirk.[/QUOTE]

...also known as "fans".

[QUOTE=bleedinpurpleTwo]...also known as "fans".[/QUOTE]

:applause:

You don't need awards to tell you that Shaq OBVIOUSLY plays lazy defense. That's a weak ass argument talkin bout "well what if Duncan play this position, etc," you'd have to be an absolute idiot approaching Don levels if you can't tell that Duncan gives great defensive effort, while Shaq gives less.

It doesn't take a genious to see that, one simply has to be MINIMALLY OBSERVANT.

:pimp:

If Duncan wins 2 more championships and Shaq doesn't win another championship then I don't see the problem with Duncan>Shaq.

BTW We should never compare MVP's. Shaq should without a doubt have at least 3 MVP's.

Duncan is a great, but you can't deny he's had a relatively easy path to the finals annd did so with very few lasting memories (besides his 3 that was trumped by the Lakers 3 years back). Not discounting his greatness but he never had the type of impact of Shaq, putting up his numbers quietly and while always contributing rarely having a real [I]dominance[/I]. No matter how many titles or MVPs he puts up I will never be able to look at him as a better or greater player than Shaq.

:sleeping

:ohwell:

[QUOTE=ronron15]shaq was once the most dominant player on the planet....[/QUOTE]
exactly, Duncan never had that dominant mentality. Shaq is the all time better player. Duncan will sustain his production longer though I think, he's definitly in better shape. He can play and be productive until he's 40, Shaq is about 34 and he's on a big decline.