Checkmate Atheists!

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]Look outside at the sky. The sun. Rivers. Mountains. Trees.

These are masterpieces that could not have been built if all of mankind worked together with the most supreme, precise technology to do so. How can the troposphere, thermosphere, exosphere, mesosphere, atmospheric layers, year after year after year, since the genesis of this Earth manage to sustain all the millions of life forms within it?


How can the Earth even be situated so perfectly that had it been (estimated a bit closer or a bit further) man would've died out from heat stroke or burning.

And they themselves don't have the intelligence to speak. You ever built a building before, Overdrive? Or marvelled at an architecture Bricks don't magically communicate with other bricks to just auto-place themselves in perfect orderly fashion. No sir. Frank Lloyd Wright planned plotted and actualized that in a most meticulous fashion.

So how could the molecules that compose a tree or a mountain just auto-arrange? They aren't even capable of moving or communicating.[/QUOTE]

Don't try to push God on me, I won't push science on you. Fair deal?

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Atheism is a religion. Atheists have a blind and unquestioning belief in whatever scientists tell them to believe, just as many evangelicals have blind belief in whatever their pastor tells them to believe.[/QUOTE]
Atheism is actually a LACK of a belief system, so it can't be a religion in that sense. It would be like me telling you that you belong to a religion of people who don't believe in a flying spaghetti monster.

And Science isn't something based on beliefs. You don't have to "believe" in it, it's simply an observation of nature/the universe. I think of science like music theory. It's more of a way to categorize things. You don't have to "believe" in music theory, but it's there in all music whether you like it or not.

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]You haven't "seen" any evidence of God?

Okay, mental experiment.

You hold down your mouse and you drag your Elite Janissaries and position them into the sides of the 4 castles to avoid flank, from this you understand there's a Commander compelling them to protect a sneak attack of Huskarls on the fortress.

Now ask yourself, Who, compels you to protect your non-related loved ones? You were nothing but a lifeless sperm clot a quarter century back, there had to have been something in your brain wiring that compelled you to have this ability. From this you understand, that as a creation, I want to defend and protect. Now you come to (begin to) realize a portion of God's attributes (Al-Muhaymin, Al-Waliyy)

Likewise, God, your Creator; has protected all of us from hundreds of diseases, hundreds of injuries, thousands of atrocities, millions of bad outcomes every single step of our lives. It's a miracle that the the 70,000,000 cells in our body die, are recreated, re-maintained, die, regrow, exchange oxygen, exchange nutrients, dispose of waste without OUR CONSCIOUS control of it.

You look at the people of the Afghanistan and you toss them Gatorade to quench their thirst. There had to have been a reason why a) you wanted to help the foreigners (who can NO have help for your evolutionary reproductive success) . You are compelled to help them.
Thus from the creation helping all other creation it is understood that there is
a merciful temperament within us, bestowed by One that is All-Merciful, Very-Merciful (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Rahim)

Examples of God's mercy are ALL around you. Trees stand up straight yet they are nourished by water and sunlight. The floor of the Earth is not littered with the corpses of insects, somehow someway they disappear every day. Cats and dogs (which don't really have much of an impact on a human) are being served food on a silver platter Helpless babies are being nourished by their mothers. People don't treat each other as best as possible and certainly not how they treat themselves, yet instead of hostility, they are met with pardon.

Relating to the aforementionted tossing of the Gatorade, it should be known that there is no liquid on earth that can work as well as what has been given for free; that is clean spring or well water (or if you're willing to go to Hajj, ZamZam water). Gatorade, a product of experimentation and mingling of electrolytes is used to fuel athletes. Yet it is still inferior to licking on a salt stick and drinking fresh water. And evolution does not account for our top class Olympic athletes being inferior to our ancestors. Nor our top minds being less wise than men of the past.


Then why is it that
a) People who worked in manual labor in the Ottoman Empire were known to carry heavy stones for hours a day easily
b) The Greeks had slaves who rowed boats for nearly 20 hours a day subsisting off bread and barley.
c) The Egyptians and their pyramids
d) Abraham lived much, much longer than any human being today
e) The memory of the Arabs were retentive enough to hold hundreds of thousands of poems.
f) The Native American warriors themselves were stronger, more conditioned, had more endurance than guys like Rich Froning.
(Look up Chaos and Pain for)
And many more examples


Nor does Evolution does not account for the survival of hundreds and thousands of small dogs that do not shepherd, nor hunt, nor guard yet enjoy comfy, cozy lives. They are as far away from wolves as

God's mercy and God's love are much stronger, more predominant, and accurate explanations why the world operates the way it does.


It also alludes to a natural unity and fraternity between all Mankind, be they from the rural areas of Kentucky or the deserts of Kabul. And each and every human has the same basic features, but they are different (look at people's fingerprints). If you were to, theoretically, create a collection of Ken's Dolls, each different, yet with the same basic structure, you would have to have knowledge of each previous one to make each one unique, no?

Evolution would compel one to coldly slaughter the menfolk of other tribes to ensure maximum reproductive success. Yet, you didn't kill the Afghans, did you?[/QUOTE]

Ok, first off... :roll:

I started reading this post and thought 'no he's not bringing up AOE2'.

But to answer your question...

God didn't compel me not to kill the Afghans. I didn't kill them because I didn't want to kill them. There was no higher being telling me not to. There simply was no benefit to be gained. If there was? Maybe that changes things.

I don't believe in God (the Christian version of it anyway) because:

A) Being forced to worship him or burn in an entire pit of fire doesn't seem like much of a choice...
B) I've seen too much bad things to think there's a 'plan'. It's not a plan, it's luck. I've had EOD clear IED's out from where I had been sleeping the night before. Why didn't the IED go off while I was walking around on top of it? Was it God? Or was there some wiring flaw that caused it to malfunction?

Go watch the documentaries Restrepo or Korengal... 30 guys go on patrol, and the 8th one in line steps on a mine. God or just unlucky? 200 trucks go out in a convoy, the very last truck in the convoy is hit (wasn't a command det, it was a pressure plate)... Is that God? Or is the last truck just really ****ing unlucky to roll over it at the right place at the wrong time?

Tornadoes rip apart whole towns and some people die, some live.

Planes crash and half the people live and half of them die.

That's just called luck. I was lucky I didn't get shot because I was in the right places at the right time. Others did get shot, which could have easily been me had I been in their place, but I wasn't. God didn't save me from getting tagged hopping out of my truck... the fact my pack was strapped to the OTHER side of the truck, causing me to get out on that side, did.

It's not God. It's me being lucky up until the point where I'm not so lucky.

[QUOTE=Overdrive]Of course. It's just another way to deal with faith and death. Every human being does that.[/QUOTE]

On the contrary, people of religious orientation look forward to death and are learned in utilizing the[U][B] remembrance of Death as it is a helpful deadline aide to focus, zone in on that which matters most in life. [/B][/U]

You are a child born in the, quoting Dresta here "Bastard child of Christianity" 2016 Western Secular Materialist Dogmatic World.

With thousands of years of men who [U][B]wielded substantial more courage and wisdom [/B][/U](willing to part ways with anything to defend one's honor, as evidenced by all parts of history), you, in your slumbering youth, think you can attribute something as broad an encompassing as religious faith with a modern psychological concept. Compensation. "it's another way to "deal" with"

That's precisely what the Devil wants you to think. The Chief Deceiver. [U][B]Switch the orders of things[/B][/U] and bam, the human populace is going to stray away from God. [U][B] Read up on the tricks of the devil, and begin a meditation program and right off the bat you'll learn that a sizable proportion of thoughts are just worthless junk.[/B][/U] No SSRI or Ritalin necessary.

Meanwhile, God has always promised the Afterlife to all of mankind, and [U][B]has given within mans spirit an aching yearning to live eternally. [/B][/U]

Look back to the people who started and propagated human civilization in the first place knew very well about what was to come after.

You ever constructed a building? It takes HELLA motivation. So what force inspires the Aztecs, Mayans, and Egyptians to go ahead and make the most awesome architecture the world has ever seen? They could've sat back and enjoyed pina colada and exchanged alpaca furs, no?

They know damn well their efforts would be rewarded in the next life.

You ever reflected on yourself and read stories of young men in the past? These guys wake up at dawn, labor furiously, offer daily devotionals, and consider it an honor to go to war, to get married, to serve the community. With a smile on their face. There's clearly a different mindset between us. This is not to put you down, rather it is to say, [U][B]you've been deprived of something crucial to human happiness[/B][/U], Faith and the sacred connection between man and God.

It is atheism that is the lie. [U][B]The scourge of destruction that has destroyed and dulled the spirit that used to animate the soul of mankind[/B][/U]. And it leaves people clinging on to the worst transient pleasures. You've got people here chasing fame. You've got the Pharmaceutical Industries and Sports Forums literally STEALING the lives of young men looking for fulfillment. You've got sad people here. People drinking themselves into a stupor. People taking on substances to feel more.. alive. And for what? The pursuit of happiness, health, fulfillment.

Things that God bestows on man for free.

[QUOTE=Overdrive]Don't try to push God on me, I won't push science on you. Fair deal?[/QUOTE]

You were challenged to the argument on what makes more sense, a) A Maker or b) no maker.

Respond back with science. Go. I don't need to push anything on to you. Man is supposed to search and adopt Truth.

[QUOTE=J Shuttlesworth]Atheism is actually a LACK of a belief system, so it can't be a religion in that sense. It would be like me telling you that you belong to a religion of people who don't believe in a flying spaghetti monster.

And Science isn't something based on beliefs. You don't have to "believe" in it, it's simply an observation of nature/the universe. I think of science like music theory. It's more of a way to categorize things. You don't have to "believe" in music theory, but it's there in all music whether you like it or not.[/QUOTE]
Atheists have a strong belief system. The blind belief in the system of scientists, and science telling them what to believe. Just like in every other religion, atheists decide for themselves how strongly or loosely they wish to cling to their belief system.


[B]Atheism is a religion by every definition of the word.[/B]

You are a follower of a religion bro. Sorry I had to be the one to break it to you.

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]On the contrary, people of religious orientation look forward to death and are learned in utilizing the[U][B] remembrance of Death as it is a helpful deadline aide to focus, zone in on that which matters most in life. [/B][/U][/QUOTE]

So that's why those guys bomb themselves away and take lives of hundreds of others at a time? I see.

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]You were challenged to the argument on what makes more sense, a) A Maker or b) no maker.

Respond back with science. Go. I don't need to push anything on to you. Man is supposed to search and adopt Truth.[/QUOTE]

That's why alot of atheists and agnostics don't like religious people. I didn't take a challange and I didn't challange you I don't want to convince you, but you seem to want to convince me. I won't change my believes, you won't change yours. Let's just leave it at that. Everything else is useless back and forth.

[QUOTE=UK2K]Ok, first off... :roll:

I started reading this post and thought 'no he's not bringing up AOE2'.

But to answer your question...

God didn't compel me not to kill the Afghans. I didn't kill them because I didn't want to kill them. There was no higher being telling me not to. There simply was no benefit to be gained. If there was? Maybe that changes things.

I don't believe in God (the Christian version of it anyway) because:

A) Being forced to worship him or burn in an entire pit of fire doesn't seem like much of a choice...
B) I've seen too much bad things to think there's a 'plan'. It's not a plan, it's luck. I've had EOD clear IED's out from where I had been sleeping the night before. Why didn't the IED go off while I was walking around on top of it? Was it God? Or was there some wiring flaw that caused it to malfunction?

Go watch the documentaries Restrepo or Korengal... 30 guys go on patrol, and the 8th one in line steps on a mine. God or just unlucky? 200 trucks go out in a convoy, the very last truck in the convoy is hit (wasn't a command det, it was a pressure plate)... Is that God? Or is the last truck just really ****ing unlucky to roll over it at the right place at the wrong time?

Tornadoes rip apart whole towns and some people die, some live.

Planes crash and half the people live and half of them die.

That's just called luck. I was lucky I didn't get shot because I was in the right places at the right time. Others did get shot, which could have easily been me had I been in their place, but I wasn't. God didn't save me from getting tagged hopping out of my truck... the fact my pack was strapped to the OTHER side of the truck, causing me to get out on that side, did.

It's not God. It's me being lucky up until the point where I'm not so lucky.[/QUOTE]

This is a very deep post. It's going to require some time for a proper comprehensive reply. BRB.

The concept of hell is a concept created by men. Followers of Christianity and Islam invented and fabricated the concept of a burning hell as a way to scare and guilt people in to following their religion.

A permanent and eternal hell is not something that God actually created. It's a manufactured concept created by the two corrupted offshoot sects of Judaism-Christianity and Islam.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Atheists have a strong belief system. The blind belief in the system of scientists, and science telling them what to believe. Just like in every other religion, atheists decide for themselves how strongly or loosely they wish to cling to their belief system.


[B]Atheism is a religion by every definition of the word.[/B]

You are a follower of a religion bro. Sorry I had to be the one to break it to you.[/QUOTE]

LOL, you really are stupid, you know that? I thought you we're just a dumbass LeBron* fan but holy crap... you're full on retard.

[QUOTE=Overdrive]So that's why those guys bomb themselves away and take lives of hundreds of others at a time? I see.

Wow. What is wrong with you?
[B][U]I'm talking about expressing love towards one's wife, being a good father, becoming a more learned person, using money as best as possible, being charitable. Put on some Tim McGraw's Live like You Were Dying to catch my drift.
[/U][/B]

There is something very very very wrong with your inner being if you actually think by remembering Death, you would assume the thoughts you just did on behalf of a stranger.




That's why alot of atheists and agnostics don't like religious people. I didn't take a challange and I didn't challange you I don't want to convince you, but you seem to want to convince me. I won't change my believes, you won't change yours. Let's just leave it at that. Everything else is useless back and forth.[/QUOTE]

Guess what? If I'm living comfortably, I don't like being reminded that there's poor people starving out there. But guess what. That's a reminder and guidance to do the right decision.

I stand nothing by "convincing" you. If you earnestly seek the Truth in your endeavors, then you're going to have to be honest and weigh out each position and put thought in it. Oh, and the fact that the posts in this thread have even reached your eyes (language itself is a miracle), and has been comprehended (at a time you are going down a dark path, mentally) is not by chance, either.

Pondering on the natural world leads me to believe, deeply, that there is One Creator behind it. This makes sense in all aspects moreso than whatever explanation you can give.

Peace.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]The concept of hell is a concept created by men. Followers of Christianity and Islam invented and fabricated the concept of a burning hell as a way to scare and guilt people in to following their religion.

A permanent and eternal hell is not something that God actually created. It's a manufactured concept created by the two corrupted offshoot sects of Judaism-Christianity and Islam.[/QUOTE]


Nope. It's very real to the major religions before it. All of the religions and stories in even Native American tribes touch base on
a) a tyrant being challenged to make the sun rise from the West
b) The Great Flood
c) Afterlife, both Heaven and Hell
d) Good Thoughts, Good Speech, Good Character

You can be the guy on a sinking ship telling everyone "Everything's gonna be alright," or you can man up, repent, for once be an honest sincere person, and fight against all evils; the evils of deceit and interest as well, and tell people as it is with pure intentions.

Like it or not, the Jewish people, despite being the predecessors have done many things that have earned God's wrath. Perhaps the worst of all is arrogantly disbelieving, rejecting, and plotting against His Last Prophet.

Gehinnom (g'hee-NOHM); Gehenna (g'HEHN-uh)
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam[/url]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism[/url])
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism[/url])
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_hell[/url]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duat[/url]

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]Pondering on the natural world leads me to believe, deeply, that there is One Creator behind it. This makes sense in all aspects moreso than whatever explanation you can give.

Peace.[/QUOTE]

For you. You're pretty selfcentered for a religious person. Your truth doesn't have to be the ultimate truth. I don't claim mine as such, but you seem to. Why?

[QUOTE=kamil]LOL, you really are stupid, you know that? I thought you we're just a dumbass LeBron* fan but holy crap... you're full on retard.[/QUOTE]
Stupid people often resort to ad-hominem logical fallacy when they get stumped and have nothing else to say.

[QUOTE=kamil]LOL, you really are stupid, you know that? I thought you we're just a dumbass LeBron* fan but holy crap... you're full on retard.[/QUOTE]

The x-ray has two rings too many for a Lebron fan.

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]Nope. It's very real to the major religions before it. All of the religions and stories in even Native American tribes touch base on
a) a tyrant being challenged to make the sun rise from the West
b) The Great Flood
c) Afterlife, both Heaven and Hell
d) Good Thoughts, Good Speech, Good Character

You can be the guy on a sinking ship telling everyone "Everything's gonna be alright," or you can man up, repent, for once be an honest sincere person, and fight against all evils; the evils of deceit and interest as well, and tell people as it is with pure intentions.

[B]Like it or not, the Jewish people, despite being the predecessors have done many things that have earned God's wrath. Perhaps the worst of all is arrogantly disbelieving, rejecting, and plotting against His Last Prophet.
[/B]
Gehinnom (g'hee-NOHM); Gehenna (g'HEHN-uh)
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam[/url]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism[/url])
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism[/url])
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_hell[/url]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duat[/url][/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

what do you call it if you just dont care. god. no god. doesnt matter to me. that fall under agnostic?

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]Nope. It's very real to the major religions before it. All of the religions and stories in even Native American tribes touch base on
a) a tyrant being challenged to make the sun rise from the West
b) The Great Flood
c) Afterlife, both Heaven and Hell
d) Good Thoughts, Good Speech, Good Character

You can be the guy on a sinking ship telling everyone "Everything's gonna be alright," or you can man up, repent, for once be an honest sincere person, and fight against all evils; the evils of deceit and interest as well, and tell people as it is with pure intentions.

[B]Like it or not, the Jewish people, despite being the predecessors have done many things that have earned God's wrath. Perhaps the worst of all is arrogantly disbelieving, rejecting, and plotting against His Last Prophet. [/B]

Gehinnom (g'hee-NOHM); Gehenna (g'HEHN-uh)
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam[/url]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism[/url])
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism[/url])
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_hell[/url]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duat[/url][/QUOTE]

:roll:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPn0KFlbqX8[/url]

[QUOTE=Overdrive]For you. You're pretty selfcentered for a religious person.
Your truth doesn't have to be the ultimate truth. I don't claim mine as such, but you seem to. Why?[/QUOTE]



Is it ultimately true that there is a Creator or not?
Answer that.

Where did the idea of "your" and "my" truth even come from?

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Atheists have a strong belief system. The blind belief in the system of scientists, and science telling them what to believe. Just like in every other religion, atheists decide for themselves how strongly or loosely they wish to cling to their belief system.


[B]Atheism is a religion by every definition of the word.[/B]

You are a follower of a religion bro. Sorry I had to be the one to break it to you.[/QUOTE]
Again, science is not a belief system. It's a description of observations. Pointing out that humans have arms, legs, and a torso is simply the terms they use to dsecribe things that exist. It has nothing to do with beliefs. You can choose not to believe that arms/torsos exist, but it doesn't change the fact that they do.

[QUOTE=Dr Seuss]what do you call it if you just dont care. god. no god. doesnt matter to me. that fall under agnostic?[/QUOTE]
yes

everyone is on the spectrum...those who couldn't care less or give it no thought at all would be agnostic

[QUOTE=KyrieTheFuture]God starting the universe is a shit explanation. Who created God? There is always one step farther back that you can go with this explanation.[/QUOTE]
In an alternate reality where space/time/etc don't exist, explaining how a higher power came to be might be much easier.

The universe just popping up out of no where for no reason is also a shit explanation.

[QUOTE=~primetime~]In an alternate reality where space/time/etc don't exist, explaining how a higher power came to be might be much easier.

[B]The universe just popping up out of no where for no reason is also a shit explanation.[/B][/QUOTE]

Says who?

If life being created on this earth by lightning or some shit was a 1 in a billion chance, and the Earth has been around for 4.6 billion years...

It's pretty ****ing likely that life could have been started by lighting. We can talk 'unlikely' all we want, but there have been hundreds of billions of years for these things to happen. Our minds can't even grasp that.

[QUOTE=fiddy]Scientific fairy tales[/QUOTE]
Only fairy tales are in the book those christians call "The Bible"

[QUOTE=Nilocon165]Only fairy tales are in the book those christians call "The Bible"[/QUOTE]

You could argue every religion has a book of fairy tales.

[QUOTE=Overdrive]So that's why those guys bomb themselves away and take lives of hundreds of others at a time? I see.



That's why alot of atheists and agnostics don't like religious people. I didn't take a challange and I didn't challange you I don't want to convince you, but you seem to want to convince me. I won't change my believes, you won't change yours. Let's just leave it at that. Everything else is useless back and forth.[/QUOTE]
You sound terribly closed-minded to me. This post is a good demonstration of why a lot of atheists and agnostics don't like other atheists and agnostics: they're intolerant and dismissive of religion and the religious in general.

[QUOTE=J Shuttlesworth][B]Again, science is not a belief system. It's a description of observations. [/B]Pointing out that humans have arms, legs, and a torso is simply the terms they use to dsecribe things that exist. It has nothing to do with beliefs. You can choose not to believe that arms/torsos exist, but it doesn't change the fact that they do.[/QUOTE]
It certainly requires some kind of belief that is not verifiable--all systems need them to function. Science is reliant on metaphysical assumptions that cannot be scientifically proven.

See Godel's Incompleteness Theorems:

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems[/url]

[QUOTE=Nick Young]:roll:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPn0KFlbqX8[/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]

“And when it is said to them (the Jews), ‘Believe in what Allaah has sent down,’ they say, ‘We believe in what was sent down to us.’ And they disbelieve in that which came after it, while it is the truth confirming what is with them. Say (O Muhammad to them): ‘[U][B]Why then have you killed the Prophets of Allaah aforetime,[/B][/U] if you indeed have been believers?’”[/QUOTE]

A few moments ago, you literally, called Christianity and Islam "corrupted offshoots," and claimed that there is no Hell. Both statements false according to all 3 Scriptures.

The penalty for people who lie, and the people who follow those who lie are very, very, very harsh. Let's hope we're not categorized under them, man. And Allah knows best.
[url]http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1934&Itemid=93[/url]


[IMG]http://7768-presscdn-0-28.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/hell-fire-1.jpg[/IMG]


Hell is very, very, very real. Most people (includingmyself are in a spiritual slumber) and after death is as they become awake. I wouldn't wish Hell on my worst enemies, let alone strangers over the internet. People should be educated and learn about the Creator.. This website should serve as a much better place of learning than it currently is.



Now back in 622 AD, when Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), like all the Prophets before him (including [U]Moses[/U] (who said his troubles were with Moses), and Jesus) , were assigned to call people towards God. What were they met with? Prophets, who were specifically put on Earth as a mercy to help their people tread the path of providence to God, and compel them to do that which is ultimately good for them, had to deal with:

- Mockery

- Slander

- Character assassination
ex.
- People cracking jokes
ex.
- Attempts to poison his food
ex.
- More mockery
ex.
- Accusations of being "bewitched"
ex.

What are you and Kyrie doing, right now, Nick? It is a very evil thing to deny the Truth because it came out of the mouths of someone that's not part of your "tribe". That's the very definition of racism.

DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINKS if you're scared of getting banned:
[url]http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=776&Itemid=60[/url]
[url]http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=275&Itemid=36[/url] (Curse for people who hide religious commandments)
[url]http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=955&Itemid=61[/url]
[url]http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1819&Itemid=89[/url]
[url]http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1250&Itemid=62[/url]
[url]http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=122&Itemid=36[/url]
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History repeats itself in all ways. Now, I'm just a guy among you, nothing special about me. But I've been on the boards for 12 years and have grown quite fond of a large number of you. As if you're my brothers.

As brothers, we can agree we want what's best for each other, yes? For starters, let's [U][B]at least try to prevent each other from going down dark paths towards Hell, yeah?[/B][/U]

The first step is to know God
[url]https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/single/en_Knowing_Allah_Purpose_of_Our_Existence_and_Our_End_Allah_Makes_All_That_Known_by_His_Words.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-knowledge.html[/url]
[url]http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1014.htm[/url]
[url]http://thetorah.com/seeking-torah-god/[/url]

[QUOTE=~primetime~]In an alternate reality where space/time/etc don't exist, explaining how a higher power came to be might be much easier.

The universe just popping up out of no where for no reason is also a shit explanation.[/QUOTE]

If you need to suggest an alternative reality to explain the existence of your higher power, you may as well cut out the superfluous higher power all together,. Why can't the universe come from such an alternate reality without the need for divine mediator, for which there exists absolutely no empirical evidence for?

The problem with theists is that none of their commonly used onto/cosmo/teleo -logical arguments are convincing for [I]their[/I] god. At their best, they support a deistic or pantheistic model, which can deal with the god of gaps far better than a God who cares when you have sex and who with... That is unless we go in the completely arbitrary field of faith and, even worse, claims of divine scripture.

[QUOTE=K Xerxes]If you need to suggest an alternative reality to explain the existence of your higher power, you may as well cut out the superfluous higher power all together,. Why can't the universe come from such an alternate reality without the need for divine mediator, for which there exists absolutely no empirical evidence for?

The problem with theists is that none of their commonly used onto/cosmo/teleo -logical arguments are convincing for [I]their[/I] god. At their best, they support a deistic or pantheistic model, which can deal with the god of gaps far better than a God who cares when you have sex and who with... That is unless we go in the completely arbitrary field of faith and, even worse, claims of divine scripture.[/QUOTE]

"Their" God?

Prove you have even a rudimentary understanding of the God of Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Isaac, Muhammad. In 500 words or less. Go.

Christianity and Islam are by definition corrupted offshoots of Judaism. Recorded histories of all three religions support my claim.

Judaism, no branch of it, believes in an inescapable eternal hell.

The closest thing to a Jewish version of hell as you call it is Gehinnom. According to Jewish belief, parts of souls that sin go there to purify, but they do not remain there eternally. After burning for a year maximum, that section of the soul goes up to God to rest eternally in peace. Have you never heard of Yom Kippur? What do you think it's about?


It is typical that a follower of a [B]corrupt offshoot of Judaism [/B]fails to properly understand the [B]true and original [/B]concept of hell. It is typical of these offshoot sects that their followers fail to have any nuance or subtlety in their understanding of Gehinnom.

[QUOTE=K Xerxes]If you need to suggest an alternative reality to explain the existence of your higher power, you may as well cut out the superfluous higher power all together,. Why can't the universe come from such an alternate reality without the need for divine mediator, for which there exists absolutely no empirical evidence for?

The problem with theists is that none of their commonly used onto/cosmo/teleo -logical arguments are convincing for [I]their[/I] god. At their best, they support a deistic or pantheistic model, which can deal with the god of gaps far better than a [B]God who cares when you have sex and who with...[/B] That is unless we go in the completely arbitrary field of faith and, even worse, claims of divine scripture.[/QUOTE]
And here in lies the problem. The reason that most people are atheists is because following god would mean they should and are prohibited from a lifestyle they don't want to change. Atheism helps them justify their actions.

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]"Their" God?

Prove you have even a rudimentary understanding of the God of Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Isaac, Muhammad. In 500 words or less. Go.[/QUOTE]
Religious people are cowards and retarded. There's no god as described in religion teachings.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Christianity and Islam are by definition corrupted offshoots of Judaism. Histories of all three religions support my claim.

Judaism, no branch of it, believes in an inescapable eternal hell.

The closest thing to a Jewish version of hell as you call it is Gehinnom. According to Jewish belief, parts of souls that sin go there to purify, but they do not remain there eternally. After burning for a year maximum, that section of the soul goes up to God to rest eternally in peace.


It is typical that a follower of a [B]corrupt offshoot of Judaism [/B]fails to properly understand the [B]true and original [/B]concept of hell.[/QUOTE]
Interesting concept. I have often questioned the concept of hell as most Christian faiths teach. I don't see why God would need to punish us in such a harsh way. And I don't see how that's love. I belive that hell is just eternal rest.

[QUOTE=fiddy]Religious people are cowards and retarded. There's no god as described in religion teachings.[/QUOTE]
Wow. This is insulting.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Wow. This is insulting.[/QUOTE]
Zero tolerance for stupid (religious) people.

[QUOTE=fiddy]Zero tolerance for stupid (religious) people.[/QUOTE]
Hold on. Religious people that are stupid? Or are all religious people stupid?

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]"Their" God?

Prove you have even a rudimentary understanding of the God of Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Isaac, Muhammad. In 500 words or less. Go.[/QUOTE]

Why do I need to provide a rudimentary understanding of any God? If I was to do so for Yahweh or Allah, then it would only make sense that I need to acquire an understanding of Brahman, Ahura Mazda, Xolotl, Zeus, and however many Gods that have been posited to exist. Just because some of these belief systems are no longer in fashion does not necessarily make them any less 'true' considering the God of Abraham and Muhammad does not provide verifiable evidence for His existence.

The onus is on the side asserting the positive claim: that X God exists. [I]Provide me convincing evidence that your God exists and I will evaluate it, and come to a conclusion.[/I] Ideally something that is less subjective than faith, or even morality.

As it stands, I was born and raised as Muslim before I realised it was a pile of shit, so I have a good understanding of Islam and Christianity. Unfortunately I didn't really look that far into Judaism as I didn't want to invest any more of my life in these fantasies, but I assume I have the general gist from its successors.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]And here in lies the problem. The reason that most people are atheists is because following god would mean they should and are prohibited from a lifestyle they don't want to change. Atheism helps them justify their actions.[/QUOTE]

No, I assure you most atheists do not follow God because there is a lack of convincing evidence for its existence. If you need an imaginary being to help you differentiate between moral and immoral actions, then fair enough, but to assume that humans don't have that capacity in themselves is ignorance.

[QUOTE=fiddy]Religious people are cowards and retarded. There's no god as described in religion teachings.[/QUOTE]


I'm neither cowardly nor retarded. Please apologize.

[QUOTE=K Xerxes]Why do I need to provide a rudimentary understanding of any God? If I was to do so for Yahweh or Allah, then it would only make sense that I need to acquire an understanding of Brahman, Ahura Mazda, Xolotl, Zeus, and however many Gods that have been posited to exist. Just because some of these belief systems are no longer in fashion does not necessarily make them any less 'true' considering the God of Abraham and Muhammad does not provide verifiable evidence for His existence.

The onus is on the side asserting the positive claim: that X God exists. [I]Provide me convincing evidence that your God exists and I will evaluate it, and come to a conclusion.[/I] Ideally something that is less subjective than faith, or even morality.

As it stands, I was born and raised as Muslim before I realised it was a pile of shit, so I have a good understanding of Islam and Christianity. Unfortunately I didn't really look that far into Judaism as I didn't want to invest any more of my life in these fantasies, but I assume I have the general gist from its successors.



No, I assure you most atheists do not follow God because there is a lack of convincing evidence for its existence. If you need an imaginary being to help you differentiate between moral and immoral actions, then fair enough, but to assume that humans don't have that capacity in themselves is ignorance.[/QUOTE]
I nevery said that humans don't have the capacity to be be moral. And besides, you alluded to sex. Not overall morals. But as far as morals and atheism, here's my ultimate rebuttal that atheists have no response for, who makes the decision on what's moral? And whoever does, wouldn't that be imposing their will on others? It's hypocritical. But then again, since atheists have no morals, maybe that's ok.

[IMG]http://philosophy.blogs.com/mc_philosophy/images/locke_god.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://philosophy.blogs.com/mc_philosophy/images/spinoza_proof_1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/ed/bc/e2/edbce28af7b1cba0029784e32e184ab3.jpg[/IMG]