Magic is very high on this list and D-Rob is better than Stockton
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Magic is very high on this list and D-Rob is better than Stockton
[QUOTE=Rico2016]I found the ESPN top 20 list
[IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/dbntvp.jpg[/IMG]
*notables include: MJ #1, Kareem #2, LeBron #3, Kobe #12, Dirk #17
I’m fine with this list. Is there anything that sticks out to you?[/QUOTE]
So MJ beat 5 guys on the list.. set the playoff record against another..
and Isiah who must've barely missed the list
He also played against nearly everyone on the list
Oscar is really overrated.
[QUOTE=sbw19][COLOR=Teal][B]Is it more newsworthy though than this [URL="http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-tim-donaghy-conspired-fix-nba-games"]Tim Donaghy article[/URL] that tops all records @ 50+ PgDn length?[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=Teal][B]Matter of time before another betting scandal hits the league now that they're legalizing sports betting, mark my words.
[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I watched the video and I don't really understand what it means. (I do speak English.)
So... what does it mean? What exactly did Tim Donaghy do? Was he making the right calls or not? How did this work?
[QUOTE=UK2K]Shaq should be higher.
He was the single most dominant player to ever play the game. Period[/QUOTE]
Agreed. He should be higher no doubt.
[QUOTE=LAmbruh]:dancin :hammertime:[/QUOTE]
The Consensus always striking! :dancin
[QUOTE=G0ATbe]Still #12? :([/QUOTE]
He tried his best :(
[QUOTE=Ghost1]ESPN made this list in 2016, after the finals if I'm not mistaken.
LeHose James took over #1 since the last update, IMO.. :pimp:[/QUOTE]
He should be at least #2, but yes I agree should be #1
[QUOTE=3ball]So MJ beat 5 guys on the list.. set the playoff record against another..
and Isiah who must've barely missed the list
He also played against nearly everyone on the list[/QUOTE]
Yeah but are you still dumb enough to deny LeBron is at worst #3 all time? That's the big question
1. James
2. Bryant
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Shaq
6. Hakeem
7. Dirk
8. Bird
9. Jordan (1-9)
10. Who cares
another landslide victory :banana:
[quote=elementally morale][COLOR=Gray][B]Was he making the right calls or not?[/B][/COLOR][/quote] [COLOR=Teal][B]At this point that hardly matters. The moment you legalize betting you're essentially opening Pandora's box and it's a matter of time before the story of another Donaghy surfaces again.[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=Teal][B]Irony is reffing often isn't fair, but what makes it real suspect is money seeping through the cracks.
[/B][/COLOR]
[QUOTE=And1AllDay]1. James
2. Bryant
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Shaq
6. Hakeem
7. Dirk
8. Bird
9. Jordan (1-9)
10. Who cares[/QUOTE]
Why Is Kobe even within 9 spots of LeBron?:roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]another landslide victory :banana:[/QUOTE]
We Bron boys stay winning :banana:
I wouldn't have Kobe in the top 15 , he rode coat tails of Shaq and Pau.
When you Exclude Celtics & Lakers Bandwagoneers!
1. Michael Jordan
2. Steph Curry
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Durant
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Dirk Nowitxky
8. Julius Irving
9. Dywayne Wade
10. Isaiah Thomas
[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Yeah but are you still dumb enough to deny LeBron is at worst #3 all time? That's the big question[/QUOTE]
Lebron is no different from westbrook - suboptimal triple-double style that doesn't win without team-hopping..
except Russell didn't get to team-hop.. nor did he get media favoritism... or have clutch sidekicks hit the big shots in 16' vs Warriors like lebron had with Kyrie and Ray Allen before that
So no, lebron's Westbrook approach to the game is simply overlooked by dumb fans like you, who put such a non-winning, selfish style at #3; a joke to anyone that understands the game and values winning basketball
[QUOTE=3ball]Lebron is no different from westbrook - suboptimal triple-double style that doesn't win without team-hopping..
except Russell didn't get to team-hop.. nor did he get media favoritism... or have clutch sidekicks hit the big shots in 16' vs Warriors like lebron had with Kyrie and Ray Allen before that
So no, lebron's Westbrook approach to the game is simply overlooked by dumb fans like you, who put such a non-winning, selfish style at #3; a joke to anyone that understands the game and values winning basketball[/QUOTE]
[B]TheCorp:[/B] Are you still dumb enough to deny LeBron is at worst #3 all time? That's the big question.
--
[B]3ball: [/B][I]Yes, I am still dumb enough.[/I]
--
[B]TheCorp: [/B] [IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/3xvsz3zB/CanineOldGalapagospenguin-max-1mb.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=TheCorporation][B]TheCorp:[/B] Are you still dumb enough to deny LeBron is at worst #3 all time? That's the big question.
--
[B]3ball: [/B][I]Yes, I am still dumb enough.[/I]
--
[B]TheCorp: [/B] [IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/3xvsz3zB/CanineOldGalapagospenguin-max-1mb.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Lebron isn't top 3 or anywhere near
My 5 year old plays a better brand of ball; the media is just dumb and doesn't know how to explain 3/9 the way they should
Like, if a player literally "[url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8b3WV-dz6Q&t=03m57s]doesn't know how[/url] to play off-ball", then they have a major skill deficit and aren't anywhere near goat.
This leads to weaker teams and championship record.. but again, the media is too dumb to understand or explain what's actually been going on
[QUOTE=3ball]Lebron isn't top 3 or anywhere near
My 5 year old plays a better brand of ball; the media is just dumb and doesn't know how to explain 3/9 the way they should
Like, if a player literally "[url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8b3WV-dz6Q&t=03m57sdoesn't know how[/url] to play off-ball", then they have a major skill deficit and aren't anywhere near goat[/QUOTE]
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/cH1y56C8/scoring-race.png[/img]
If 10 Finals, super longevity Kareem couldn't do it
If 6 Finals, I lost three times in first round MJ couldn't do it
If MDE Shaq couldn't do it
If most skilled Kobe scoring assassin couldn't do it
Only one man passed them all :pimp:
King GOAT James #1
#2 Jordan
#Kareem
Sorry for this my good friend
[QUOTE=TheCorporation][img]https://i.postimg.cc/cH1y56C8/scoring-race.png[/img]
If 10 Finals, super longevity Kareem couldn't do it
If 6 Finals, I lost three times in first round MJ couldn't do it
If MDE Shaq couldn't do it
If most skilled Kobe scoring assassin couldn't do it
Only one man passed them all :pimp:
King GOAT James #1
#2 Jordan
#Kareem
Sorry for this my good friend[/QUOTE]
Lebron's westbrook skillset/brand of ball is suboptimal and doesn't win
So he isn't top 10
B-b-but he has 3 rings..... only by teaming up, which any great player can do
Again, if a player literally "[url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8b3WV-dz6Q&t=03m57s]doesn't know how[/url] to play off-ball", then they have a major skill deficit and aren't anywhere near goat.
This leads to weaker teams and championship record.. but again, the media is too dumb to understand or explain what's actually been going on
[QUOTE=3ball]We know lebron isn't #3
because a player can't be #3 if they NEEDED a couple lucky bounces to have more than 1 ring
[B]without ray or kyrie's shots, lebron has 1 ring [/B]- a guy that might be a 1-ring bum can't be ranked that high.. :confusedshrug:.
.[/QUOTE]
Without Pippens defense and Rodman's rebounding titles, Jordan has ZERO rings.
we win again boyz. the time is ours!
:djparty :hammertime: :djparty :hammertime:
12be fans don't even know what hit em
shockwaves felt through the basketball world!
maybe i'll put off killing myself afterall
- dubeta
[QUOTE]aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh F*UUUUCK![/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/BTUE27t.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Without Pippens [B]defense[/B] and Rodman's [B]rebounding[/B] titles, Jordan has ZERO rings.[/QUOTE]
That goes for any team - any team needs defense and rebounding
But without ray and kyrie shots, lebron loses those series on the spot - he needed those shots to win or he's a 1-ring bum (to knowledgeable fans, he'll always be a 1-ring bum)
And rodman averaged 4/8 for the entire 97' playoffs, and wasn't even the starter for the 98' playoffs (4/8 in those Finals).. so the bulls [U]didn't need[/U] rodman in 97' or 98' and actually won with kukoc at PF in 98'.. :confusedshrug:..
Ultimately, lebron needed an extra all-star/olympian to win his rings.. MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate) and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors
[QUOTE=3ball]That goes for any team - any team needs defense and rebounding
But without ray and kyrie shots, lebron loses those series on the spot - he needed those shots to win or he's a 1-ring bum (to knowledgeable fans, he'll always be a 1-ring bum)
And rodman averaged 4/8 for the entire 97' playoffs, and wasn't even the starter for the 98' playoffs (4/8 in those Finals).. so the bulls [U]didn't need[/U] rodman in 97' or 98' and actually won with kukoc at PF in 98'.. :confusedshrug:..
[B]Ultimately, lebron needed an extra all-star/olympian to win his rings.. MJ won with less (only 1 all-star teammate)[/B] and would've been unfathomable with 2 like lebron had to face the Spurs and Warriors[/QUOTE]
All 3 of LeBron's rings he led the team in points, rebounds and assists. MJ never did that. He just concentrated on scoring while others did all the leg work.
Let me know when MJ can win a Finals game when 2 starters and his best 3pt shooter coming off the bench can go an entire game (a combined 67mins) w/o scoring, yet still win the game.
Not hard to figure out who had more help and who was asked to do the most.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]All 3 of LeBron's rings he led the team in points, rebounds and assists. MJ never did that. He just concentrated on scoring while others did all the leg work.
Let me know when MJ can win a Finals game when 2 starters and his best 3pt shooter coming off the bench can go an entire game (a combined 67mins) w/o scoring, yet still win the game.
Not hard to figure out who had more help and who was asked to do the most.[/QUOTE]
lebron leading his teams in every category is WHY he lost more finals than he's won
him chasing rebounds/cheating on passing lanes cost his teams defensively
him chasing assists cost his teams offensively
him protecting his fg% cost his teams opportunities
him shying away from contact late in games out of fear of going to the free throw line cost them game 1 of the 2018 nba finals
ah so this is why everyone calls him 12be
makes sense
[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]ah so this is why everyone calls him 12be
makes sense[/QUOTE]
we win again brother
its like 2016 all over again
[QUOTE= Hey Yo]
MJ just concentrated on scoring while others did all the leg work.
[/QUOTE]
[I][SIZE="4"]MJ led the bulls in APG for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pippen and assisted on the most bulls' FG's for both 3-peats:[/SIZE][/I]
[INDENT][SIZE="3"][I]Assist Percentage 1991-1993 Playoffs:[/I][/SIZE]
[B]Jordan[/B]: [B][COLOR="Red"]31.1%[/COLOR][/B]
[B]Pippen[/B]: [COLOR="Red"][B]23.3%[/B][/COLOR]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced[/url]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_advanced[/url]
[SIZE="3"][I]Assist Percentage 1996-1998 Playoffs:[/I][/SIZE]
[B]Jordan[/B]: [COLOR="Red"][B]22.3%[/B][/COLOR]
[B]Pippen[/B]: [COLOR="Red"][B]22.0%[/B][/COLOR]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced[/url]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_advanced[/url][/INDENT]
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]
Not hard to figure out [B][COLOR="DarkRed"]who had more help and who was asked to do the most[/COLOR][/B].
[/QUOTE]
it's JUST scoring... :rolleyes: ... who cares about that right?... :coleman:
Show me a player that averaged over 30 in the playoffs, let alone 33.5 like MJ
[I][COLOR="Navy"]MJ also led his team in passing as the previous stats show - mj's goat scoring burden, team-leading passing, and goat defense at his position is the most anyone has ever had to do... :confusedshrug:[/COLOR][/I] ... But keep acting like 5 more points on better efficiency (ortg) is nothing - it's huge - lebron would be an entirely more dominant player with 5 more ppg on better efficiency per possession
Jordan never had a teammate that was an elite, lethal scorer like Wade or Kyrie to carry an equal scoring burden or command a double team - the bulls were always a 1-man show on offense and MJ's goat scoring burden is more than anything lebron had to do.. i.e. 41/9/6 > 30/11/10... Only MJ scored 10-20 more than his 2nd option to win all his Finals, compared to 2-6 points for lebron over his 2nd option.. no comparison.. MJ had to do much more, and the media/lebron fans are literally D-U-M-B
.
[Size="4"][I][COLOR="Red"][B]Stats needed for rings:[/B][/COLOR][/I][/size]
[Size="3"][B][COLOR="Blue"]Jordan averaged 33.7 and 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO...
Lebron averaged 27.2 and 7.2 apg in 12/13/16' PO
[/COLOR][/B][/size]
:confusedshrug:
MJ had to do more to win
Full stats:
[SIZE="3"][i]THRU 31 YEARS OLD[/i][/size][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [size="1"][I](playoff stats are linked to source data[/I])[/size]
[INDENT][SIZE="1"][B]PLAYOFFS PER GAME[/B][/indent]
[INDENT][INDENT][COLOR="DarkRed"][i][B][url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game]Jordan[/url][/B][/i]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 34.7 ppg.. 6.7 rpg.. 6.6 apg.. 2.3 spg.. 1.0 bpg.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ortg.. 29.6 PER[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Navy"][i][B][url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html]Lebron[/url][/B][/i]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 28.0 ppg.. 8.8 rpg.. 6.8 apg.. 1.8 spg.. 0.9 bpg.. 47.8 fg.. 56.7 ts.. 115 ortg.. 27.7 PER[/COLOR][/INDENT][/INDENT]
[INDENT][B]PLAYOFFS PER 100 POSSESSIONS[/B][/INDENT]
[INDENT][INDENT][COLOR="DarkRed"][B][I][url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss
]Jordan[/url][/I][/B]:[COLOR="White"]I[/COLOR] 43.9 pts..[COLOR="White"]N[/COLOR] 8.5 reb.. 8.4 ast.. 4.2 tov.. 2.9 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ortg.. 29.6 PER[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Navy"][B][I][url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html]Lebron[/url][/I][/B]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.4 pts.. 11.5 reb.. 8.8 ast.. 4.6 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.8 fg.. 56.7 ts.. 115 ortg.. 27.7 PER[/COLOR][/INDENT][/INDENT]
[INDENT][B]FINALS PER GAME:[/B][/INDENT]
[INDENT][INDENT][COLOR="DarkRed"][I][B]Jordan Finals[/B][/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 2.7 tov.. 2.0 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 52.6 fg[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Navy"][I][B]Lebron Finals[/B][/I]:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 rpg.. 7.2 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.4 fg[/COLOR][/SIZE][/INDENT][/INDENT]
[size="3"][i]Jordan's first 3 rings required 25-33% more scoring with better efficiency than Lebron's 3 rings, [COLOR="DarkGreen"]while still getting equal or greater assists[/COLOR][/I]... :eek:[/SIZE]
Scoring is overrated, see Bill Russell.
All time playoff scoring average.
1. Michael Jordan* 33.45
2. Allen Iverson* 29.73
3. Jerry West* 29.13
4. LeBron James 28.92
5. Kevin Durant 28.79
6. Rick Barry* 27.33
7. Elgin Baylor* 27.04
8. George Gervin* 26.46
9. Stephen Curry 26.09
10. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.90
11. Kobe Bryant 25.64
12. Russell Westbrook 25.54
13. Bob Pettit* 25.45
14. Dominique Wilkins* 25.41
15. Dirk Nowitzki 25.26
16. Connie Hawkins* 25.00
17. Karl Malone* 24.67
18. Bernard King* 24.54
19. Carmelo Anthony 24.50
20. Alex English* 24.43
[QUOTE=bigkingsfan]
All time playoff scoring average.
1. Michael Jordan* 33.45
2. Allen Iverson* 29.73
3. Jerry West* 29.13
4. LeBron James 28.92
5. Kevin Durant 28.79
6. Rick Barry* 27.33
7. Elgin Baylor* 27.04
8. George Gervin* 26.46
9. Stephen Curry 26.09
10. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.90
11. Kobe Bryant 25.64
12. Russell Westbrook 25.54
13. Bob Pettit* 25.45
14. Dominique Wilkins* 25.41
15. Dirk Nowitzki 25.26
16. Connie Hawkins* 25.00
17. Karl Malone* 24.67
18. Bernard King* 24.54
19. Carmelo Anthony 24.50
20. Alex English* 24.43
[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]Scoring is overrated[/COLOR][/B], see Bill Russell.
[/QUOTE]
Not at high efficiency
When a player can score with high efficiency per possession, the best action is to have them score [B]over anything else[/B] - this requires a player's ortg exceed the best offenses (so 114-115 or greater):
[INDENT][U]Per 100 Possessions in Playoffs:[/U]
JORDAN:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 43.3 pts.. 118 ORtg.. 35.6 usg
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 37.2 pts.. 116 ORtg.. 32.2 usg
DURANT:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.3 pts.. 115 ORtg.. 30.5 usg
KOBE:[COLOR="White"]......[/COLOR] 34.7 pts.. 110 ORtg.. 31.0 usg
WADE:[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 32.2 pts.. 108 ORtg.. 30.1 usg
HARDEN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 32.0 pts.. 113 ORtg.. 28.1 usg
(Harden 17' and 18' PO: 38.9 pts, 110 ortg, 36.2 usg)[/INDENT]
So mj's produced the most (43.3 pts) at higher efficiency than everyone (118 ortg).. so he provided more (points) of a good thing (ortg)
Btw, considering the #2 thru #6 guys are between 32 and 36 points, you'd think the #1 guy would be at 37 or 38... But MJ is at 43.3 points, far above the pack and in another tier
.
that gap between Top 3 and Top 12th :lol
respect the gap
[QUOTE=Gus Hemmingway]ah so this is why everyone calls him 12be
makes sense[/QUOTE]
Yes indeed, it has been confirmed :cheers:
[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Yes indeed, it has been confirmed :cheers:[/QUOTE]
MJ did the most:
[INDENT][U]Per 100 Possessions in Playoffs:[/U]
JORDAN:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 43.3 pts.. 118 ORtg.. 35.6 usg
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 37.2 pts.. 116 ORtg.. 32.2 usg
DURANT:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.3 pts.. 115 ORtg.. 30.5 usg
KOBE:[COLOR="White"]......[/COLOR] 34.7 pts.. 110 ORtg.. 31.0 usg
WADE:[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 32.2 pts.. 108 ORtg.. 30.1 usg
HARDEN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 32.0 pts.. 113 ORtg.. 28.1 usg
(Harden 17' and 18' PO: 38.9 pts, 110 ortg, 36.2 usg)[/INDENT]
So mj's produced the most (43.3 pts) at higher efficiency than everyone (118 ortg).. so he provided more (points) of a good thing (ortg)
Btw, considering the #2 thru #6 guys are between 32 and 36 points, you'd think the #1 guy would be at 37 or 38... But MJ is at 43.3 points, far above the pack and in another tier
Mj three highest scoring playoffs, he got swept in the first round, then ecf.
[QUOTE=Hey Yo]All 3 of LeBron's rings he led the team in points, rebounds and assists. MJ never did that. He just concentrated on scoring while others did all the leg work.
Let me know when MJ can win a Finals game when 2 starters and his best 3pt shooter coming off the bench can go an entire game (a combined 67mins) w/o scoring, yet still win the game.
Not hard to figure out who had more help and who was asked to do the most.[/QUOTE]
it was mj's primary [B]job[/B] to score within the system. the triangle wasn't a pnr drive & dish machine. those bulls teams were built on cohesion, coaching and defense. mj put them over the top when they needed buckets. somehow i think u know this but u just wanna argue the same talking points over and over.
2ball melting hard itt :oldlol:
Where is Kobe?
[QUOTE=Rico2016]Where is Kobe?[/QUOTE]
BRON FAM WINS THE INTERWEBS
:djparty :hammertime: :djparty :hammertime:
[QUOTE=kennethgriffen]BRON FAM WINS THE INTERWEBS
:djparty :hammertime: :djparty :hammertime:[/QUOTE]
No I'm serious I scrolled through top 10 real quickly but I didn't see him in there??
Do I need to keep scrolling?
Scrollbe?
[QUOTE=Rico2016]No I'm serious I scrolled through top 10 real quickly but I didn't see him in there??
Do I need to keep scrolling?
Scrollbe?[/QUOTE]
we da bess
we won the 2016th interweb
:party: