top 5 two way players in nba history ( aka the real top 5 players in nba history )

[QUOTE=Smoke117]Of course OP has Kobe in his little list. He's not even close to being one of the best two players in nba history. He was regularly a negative defensively throughout his career.[/QUOTE]


You are not allowed to bring up facts.. You know even Kobe's coach Phil Jackson said KObe was not good on defense..

Long time Mentor Tex Winters said Kobe was not good on defense..

I will say that Kobe was a good defender especially in that first year that the Lakers won a title.. But after that I would say he GOT worse every year..

[QUOTE=NBASTATMAN]You are not allowed to bring up facts.. You know even Kobe's coach Phil Jackson said KObe was not good on defense..

Long time Mentor Tex Winters said Kobe was not good on defense..

I will say that Kobe was a good defender especially in that first year that the Lakers won a title.. But after that I would say he GOT worse every year..[/QUOTE]

Kobe basically destroyed any prestige the all defensive team had when he was put on the team when he was literally a negative player defensively. I will say he played better defense in the playoffs, but the whole point of being on the all defensive team is consistency...being a consistent defender throughout the long 82 game season and Kobe was, frankly, never that besides 2000. What makes it even worse is he was being put on the team over a guy like Dwyane Wade who was a far superior defensive player.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]Kobe basically destroyed any prestige the all defensive team had when he was put on the team when he was literally a negative player defensively. I will say he played better defense in the playoffs, but the whole point of being on the all defensive team is consistency...being a consistent defender throughout the long 82 game season and Kobe was, frankly, never that besides 2000. What makes it even worse is he was being put on the team over a guy like Dwyane Wade who was a far superior defensive player.[/QUOTE]


:cheers:

Can't argue with OP on this one.

[QUOTE=PickernRoller]Can't argue with JERRY WEST on this one.Lebron is up there with MJ[/QUOTE]


:cheers: :applause:

Jerry propping his boy.

Bran, Jerry and Elgin... Top 3 all time.

Real top 5

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem

By position

Payton
Jordan
Miami LeBron
Duncan
Hakeem

Besides the obvious, gotta shout out CP3. To me, he's right up there with any defender for a PG sans perhaps Payton because he was 6'4". But watching that dude as a Clipper, he was unreal defensively. And offensively, was a maestro too. Could get to any spot on the court with his dribble and had a devastating midrange game. CP3 was a damn beast on both ends.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]Kobe basically destroyed any prestige the all defensive team had when he was put on the team when he was literally a negative player defensively. I will say he played better defense in the playoffs, but the whole point of being on the all defensive team is consistency...being a consistent defender throughout the long 82 game season and Kobe was, frankly, never that besides 2000. What makes it even worse is he was being put on the team over a guy like Dwyane Wade who was a far superior defensive player.[/QUOTE]

Wade was never far superior on defense, he simply played in a worse Conference and played on teams that mostly ran at a snail's pace. Lakers coasted on defense after the 2000 season but were consistently holding teams to 80-90 pts in the POs. Kobe's individual defense has always been elite and coaches, who watched hours of flim on him knew that and thus voted him 1st team.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]Kobe basically destroyed any prestige the all defensive team had when he was put on the team when he was literally a negative player defensively. I will say he played better defense in the playoffs, but the whole point of being on the all defensive team is consistency...being a consistent defender throughout the long 82 game season and Kobe was, frankly, never that besides 2000. What makes it even worse is he was being put on the team over a guy like Dwyane Wade who was a far superior defensive player.[/QUOTE]

its all about the eye test smoke. We only care about the skills not the stats. Thats how the higher IQs judge players. Your a low IQ so you dont get it.

1 MVP
2 FMVP

Yikes

Fringe top 15

[QUOTE=Rico2016]So Kobe plays better defense than LeBron now. Interesting news to me :oldlol:

Not so fast bucko :no:[/QUOTE]

Its not that difficult to play better defense than NO DEFENSE.

[QUOTE=ImKobe]Chris Paul deserves a mention.

9x all-defense (7x 1st)
6x steals leader

Always a pest on that side of the court and is one of the greatest passers in league history.[/QUOTE]

I think I'd add Paul at 10th to my list, and Wade is not far behind. I'm also bumping this because this is one of the most awesome threads this fanboard has seen. 5 stars.

Imagine being Jordan and getting praised for being a good defender when LeBron literally did everything better defensively :lol

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Imagine being Jordan and getting praised for being a good defender when LeBron literally did everything better defensively :lol[/QUOTE]

Imagine believing any of this.

Forget about Jordan. Lebron's own contemporary - Kawhi - is a better 2 way player. By a distance.

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]Imagine believing any of this.

Forget about Jordan. Lebron's own contemporary - Kawhi - is a better 2 way player. By a distance.[/QUOTE]

Allow me to provide you with some facts, then. You must be new to the NBA, welcome. Stick around and learn some things

Most post season

steals: LeBron
blocks: LeBron
DRtg: LeBron
chip runs under 101 DRtg:
LeBron 2 for 3
Jordan 0 for 6

SPG% LeBron
BPG% LeBron

I mean...Just not close

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Allow me to provide you with some facts, then. You must be new to the NBA, welcome. Stick around and learn some things

Most post season

steals: LeBron
blocks: LeBron
DRtg: LeBron
chip runs under 101 DRtg:
LeBron 2 for 3
Jordan 0 for 6

SPG% LeBron
BPG% LeBron

I mean...Just not close[/QUOTE]

What does any of the above have to do with being a better 2 way player?
You believe that playing the passing lanes makes you a great defender?:oldlol:

[QUOTE=kennethgriffen]
why do we give guys like magic/lebron a pass for not playing any defense whatsoever and russell a pass for not dominating offensively


...[/QUOTE]

Because you will not find defense on the basic statsheets and thats the only thing we, the Lebron fam, care about :rockon:

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Imagine being Jordan and getting praised for being a good defender when LeBron literally did everything better defensively :lol[/QUOTE]


Oh? How many DPOY awards did Bron win?

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Allow me to provide you with some facts, then. You must be new to the NBA, welcome. Stick around and learn some things

Most post season

steals: LeBron
blocks: LeBron
DRtg: LeBron
chip runs under 101 DRtg:
LeBron 2 for 3
Jordan 0 for 6

SPG% LeBron
BPG% LeBron

I mean...Just not close[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i.freegifmaker.me/1/5/5/1/7/9/15517973533198297.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.freegifmaker.me/1/5/5/1/7/9/1551797455788578.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.freegifmaker.me/1/5/5/1/7/9/15517973023198267.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]Besides the obvious, gotta shout out CP3. To me, he's right up there with any defender for a PG sans perhaps Payton because he was 6'4". But watching that dude as a Clipper, he was unreal defensively. And offensively, was a maestro too. Could get to any spot on the court with his dribble and had a devastating midrange game. CP3 was a damn beast on both ends.[/QUOTE]

I bet you know his ***** size too you weirdo.

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]What does any of the above have to do with being a better 2 way player?
You believe that playing the passing lanes makes you a great defender?:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

I don't even care about the Jordan v LeBron shit but that stats he pulls are stupid. No thought to context at all. Like most of his. It's weird

Kawhi, Lebron and CP3 belong on the list.

Kobe really doesn't. There has always been a media bias about players that spend their time in LA for the duration of their careers. Same way they made it out as if Magic was a better player than Bird. Not even close.

[QUOTE=nayte]I don't even care about the Jordan v LeBron shit but that stats he pulls are stupid. No thought to context at all. Like most of his. It's weird[/QUOTE]

Total career playoff steals:oldlol: You cant make this stuff up. These are the arguments being put forth by these kids.

I've decided to update my list (tiered and ranked)

tier 1
1. MJ
2. Hakeem
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Kobe
6. Timmy D
7. Jerry West
8. D-Rob
9. KG

tier 2
10. CP3
11. Gary Payton
12. Ewing
13. Wade
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Bird
17. LeBron
18. Curry
19. Durant
20. Magic
21. Pip
22. Kawhi
23. Barkley

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Allow me to provide you with some facts, then. You must be new to the NBA, welcome. Stick around and learn some things

Most post season

steals: LeBron
blocks: LeBron
DRtg: LeBron
chip runs under 101 DRtg:
LeBron 2 for 3
Jordan 0 for 6

SPG% LeBron
BPG% LeBron

I mean...Just not close[/QUOTE]


Shook?

[QUOTE=72-10]I've decided to update my list (tiered and ranked)

tier 1
1. MJ
2. Hakeem
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Kobe
6. Timmy D
7. Jerry West
8. D-Rob
9. KG

tier 2
10. CP3
11. Gary Payton
12. Ewing
13. Wade
14. Karl Malone
15. Julius Erving
16. Bird
17. LeBron
18. Curry
19. Durant
20. Magic
21. Pip
22. Kawhi
23. Barkley[/QUOTE]
Curry & Magic top 20 two way players :oldlol:

Lots of others you missed that could be argued

Shaq
AD
PG
Stockton
Frazier
McHale
Klay

Poor Kenny. Bet he is watching this thread right now :lol

[QUOTE=Vino24]Poor Kenny. Bet he is watching this thread right now :lol[/QUOTE]
+1 :oldlol:


[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/vyVxeMNGUBT7q/giphy.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Vino24]Poor Kenny. Bet he is watching this thread right now :lol[/QUOTE]

He certainly has you thinking about him and what he

[QUOTE=egokiller]He certainly has you thinking about him and what he

[QUOTE=kennethgriffen][B]Michael Jordan[/B] ( 10 time all nba 1st team, 9 time all defensive 1st team, 1 time defensive player of the year )

[B]Kareem Abdul Jabbar[/B] ( 10 time all nba 1st team, 5 time all defensive 1st team )

[B]Kobe Bryant[/B] ( 11 time all nba 1st team, 9 time all defensive 1st team )

[B]Tim Duncan[/B] ( 10 time all nba 1st team, 8 time all defensive 1st team )

[B]Hakeem Olajuwon[/B] ( 6 time all nba 1st team, 5 time all defensive 1st team, 2 time defensive player of the year )



should this be the real top 5?


defense IS a thing right?

why do we give guys like magic/lebron a pass for not playing any defense whatsoever and russell a pass for not dominating offensively


...[/QUOTE]

Good list.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Curry & Magic top 20 two way players :oldlol:

Lots of others you missed that could be argued

Shaq
AD
PG
Stockton
Frazier
McHale
Klay[/QUOTE]

You think Magic's D was that lax? How do completely negate the steals? I have no doubts Ewing is top 12, might even be 10th. McHale's a no doubter.

[QUOTE=72-10]You think Magic's D was that lax? How do completely negate the steals? I have no doubts Ewing is top 12, might even be 10th. McHale's a no doubter.[/QUOTE]
Steals are not always an indicator of being a good defender. Iverson's top 10 in steals per game all time

[QUOTE=egokiller]He certainly has you thinking about him and what he

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Steals are not always an indicator of being a good defender. Iverson's top 10 in steals per game all time[/QUOTE]

Where'd you rank Iverson among 2 way players?

thread bump

curious to get some fresh suggestions

where ya'll rank Ewing in this?

thank you for the reads - I found them quite informative

is OP still banned?

Yeah OP had a meltdown and got banned. Too bad should unban him.