Lebron not even top 10 according to those who watched more ball

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers][url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468884&page=2[/url]

Nice try, imagine believing MJ-Pippen was a better duo than 2000-2004 Shaq and Kobe. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Much better, as were magic and Kareem and Curry and Durant.
Again, why are you wasting my time derailing the thread?

This is about where Lebron stands in the top 10. He's firmly a top 3 player while your idol is 12th and falling. This isnt difficult. Stick to the thread topic.

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]I agree. Jordan, Shaq, Wilt, and Lebron had insane peaks. Shaq didnt maintain it. Wilt didnt win as much and didnt perform at the same level when the stakes were highest (playoffs and finals I.e. Kobe-esque when it counted) and Lebron separates himself by playing at his level for longer than most.

If we are to rank players by tiers rather individual spots, Jordan, Kareem, and Lebron would be in the 1st. Magic, Shaq, Wilt, Bird would probably be in the 2nd. Hakeem, Duncan, Russell would be in the third, and so on.

But there isnt a player who has ever played that is THAT far ahead of Lebron. He's the best player in the past 20 years by a considerable distance, and the only one even close is Shaq. And Shaq didn't have the longevity that Lebron does.[/QUOTE]
Hakeem's peak is honestly up there with anyone elses, and was better than Magic's imo

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]Much better, as were magic and Kareem and Curry and Durant.
Again, why are you wasting my time derailing the thread?

This is about where Lebron stands in the top 10. He's firmly a top 3 player while your idol is 12th and falling. This isnt difficult. Stick to the thread topic.[/QUOTE]

Durant and Curry have an argument, both were superstars at their peak.

Kareem was past his prime and Pippen was never on the level of '01-'03 Kobe or Curry/Durant.

Sorry, 2001-2003 Shaq and Kobe take a dump of any 80's version of Magic-Kareem.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Durant and Curry have an argument, both were superstars at their peak.

Kareem was past his prime and Pippen was never on the level of '01-'03 Kobe or Curry/Durant.

Sorry, 2001-2003 Shaq and Kobe take a dump of any 80's version of Magic-Kareem.[/QUOTE]

Sorry mate. All of them are better than Shaq and his 40% finals scoring role player sidekick.

Now about the thread topic. Lebron and the top 10.

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]I agree. Jordan, Shaq, Wilt, and Lebron had insane peaks. Shaq didnt maintain it. Wilt didnt win as much and didnt perform at the same level when the stakes were highest (playoffs and finals I.e. Kobe-esque when it counted) and Lebron separates himself by playing at his level for longer than most.

If we are to rank players by tiers rather individual spots, Jordan, Kareem, and Lebron would be in the 1st. Magic, Shaq, Wilt, Bird would probably be in the 2nd. Hakeem, Duncan, Russell would be in the third, and so on.

But there isnt a player who has ever played that is THAT far ahead of Lebron. He's the best player in the past 20 years by a considerable distance, and the only one even close is Shaq. And Shaq didn't have the longevity that Lebron does.[/QUOTE]

i've come around more on russell, feel like he should be in the 2nd tier. I blame backpicks for convincing me some along with some other stuff and a minimal game watching. the celtics defense was just a comical outlier and russell seems like he deserves most of the credit. he wasnt ben wallace on offense or even mutombo. Calling his teams having 8 hofers is exaggerating, 2-3 of those got in for just rings(like kc jones is arguably less deserving than iggy honestly). Granted he did have a talent help edge over wilt, oscar, west still but can get overstated.

I'm not as sure about tiers as I used to be, there's a lot of uncertainty for valuing a player over a season and that adds up even more over a career. Like even this year, there were people who legitimately thought paul george should've been mvp before his injury even though in 5-10 years, everyone will say giannis/harden were head and shoulders above everyone else. There's still a couple who will argue for wade 09 over lebron. even clear edges are decently close.

Finally I watch out for curry. with longevity he's impressive. I could definitely consider taking his offense over bron's(shaq not so much). The stat nerds and the heavy film guys seem to both agree on curry being a true offensive great.

Edit: durant is someone it seems pretty safe to put in the kobe/wade/tmac hell harden peak tier

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]Sorry mate. All of them are better than Shaq and his 40% finals scoring role player sidekick.

Now about the thread topic. Lebron and the top 10.[/QUOTE]

Yup, a post with no actual explanation on his stance and quickly trying to change the subject.

Checkmate.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Hakeem's peak is honestly up there with anyone elses, and was better than Magic's imo[/QUOTE]

Yeah I agree. But 5 titles count for a lot. Even in the titles in which he didnt win finals mvp, he played at a really high level. 9 titles in 12(?) Years of playing is incredible. I think his longevity is what helps him there. Because as you said, Hakeem in 94 is up there with anybody really. He was the best offensive and defensive player on the planet at the same time. He outplayed Barkley, Robinson, and Shaq while anchoring the rockets' defense.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]Yup, a post with no actual explanation on his stance and quickly trying to change the subject.

Checkmate.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/BZiTL5WX42C1ICWyPe/giphy.gif[/IMG]

Sorry mate. Your attempts to derail this thread are futile. Done and dusted

[QUOTE=TheMan]It's ova

Shut

It

Down

:hammertime:[/QUOTE]

Another day
Another win

We did it boys. :banana:

Overall LeBron is still second on ranker

And most NBA legends have LeBron in their top 5

[QUOTE=Manny98]Overall LeBron is still second on ranker

And most NBA legends have LeBron in their top 5[/QUOTE]

I think he's entrenched in the top 3. I can't see an argument (a rational one) for him being out of the top 4.

This is ridulcious. In 2016, people used to put in Lebron as top 5, but in 2019 hes not even top 10 SMH

Present always win. They saying Kawhi is better than Lebron, but what if Kawhi loses. Therefore Kawh is not the best no more. Than the next best player comes. Its an ongoing cycle. Its never ends.

Sighs

:facepalm

Im tired of these ''top XXX players threads''

It's getting boring.

[QUOTE=Turbo Slayer]This is ridulcious. In 2016, people used to put in Lebron as top 5, but in 2019 hes not even top 10 SMH

Present always win. They saying Kawhi is better than Lebron, but what if Kawhi loses. Therefore Kawh is not the best no more. Than the next best player comes. Its an ongoing cycle. Its never ends.

Sighs

:facepalm

Im tired of these ''top XXX players threads''

It's getting boring.[/QUOTE]

I think there is a difference between discussions about the best players in a game at a given moment (eg. Right now in 2019) and the discussion about where players stand in the all time list.

Kawhi is better than Lebron right now (as is Durant) but Lebron is still comfortably higher than both on the all time list. He's in the top 3 while neither is in the top 10.

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]I think there is a difference between discussions about the best players in a game at a given moment (eg. Right now in 2019) and the discussion about where players stand in the all time list.

Kawhi is better than Lebron right now (as is Durant) but Lebron is still comfortably higher than both on the all time list. He's in the top 3 while neither is in the top 10.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh. I get what you are saying dawg. Its all good.
I agree with your statement.
But Im just saying, people will always rate a player as of right now. In the present.

But I get what youre saying.
:applause:

Somebody convince why Kawhi is better than Lebron ALL-time. (not the present)

Lebron has 4 MVPs, 3 finals MVP, ROTY, 3 rings on his resume.
Kawhi, on the other hand, has 2 DPOTYs, and 2 Finals MVP

In the present, obviously, I would pick Kawhi over Lebron just for the sheer fact Lebron declining at a slow rate while Kawhi is at the top of his game.

Kawhi while questionable in the 4th quarter HAS shown remarkable progress in his move set. Hes copying Jordan and Kobe which is cool as heck, dude.

Lebron keeps relying on his speed, but it won't get him anywhere doe. He needs to adapt some moves from Kobe and Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

But I pick Lebron in his prime(2009 Lebron) That dude is a beast.
This crazy dude average about 30 points. Thats crazy. If I were to pick which players. I pick Lebron.

[QUOTE=Turbo Slayer]Somebody convince why Kawhi is better than Lebron ALL-time. (not the present)

Lebron has 4 MVPs, 3 finals MVP, ROTY, 3 rings on his resume.
Kawhi, on the other hand, has 2 DPOTYs, and 2 Finals MVP

In the present, obviously, I would pick Kawhi over Lebron just for the sheer fact Lebron declining at a slow rate while Kawhi is at the top of his game.

Kawhi while questionable in the 4th quarter HAS shown remarkable progress in his move set. Hes copying Jordan and Kobe which is cool as heck, dude.

Lebron keeps relying on his speed, but it won't get him anywhere doe. He needs to adapt some moves from Kobe and Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

But I pick Lebron in his prime(2009 Lebron) That dude is a beast.
This crazy dude average about 30 points. Thats crazy. If I were to pick which players. I pick Lebron.[/QUOTE]

It’s not even a question or comparison all time.. even at his peak kahwi missed almost all 2017 and part of 2018/19 season. Lebron is a generational talent once every 25 years..Kawai is just a talented player who has improved and gained confidence in himself over the last few years.

[QUOTE=Kingwillball]It’s not even a question or comparison all time.. even at his peak kahwi missed almost all 2017 and part of 2018/19 season. Lebron is a generational talent once every 25 years..Kawai is just a talented player who has improved and gained confidence in himself over the last few years.[/QUOTE]

FAXX

You're right, my dude. you're cool

Lebron is a generational talent every 25 years. He lived up to the HYPE. Not many players who hyped up actually lives up to the hype.

Don't get me started on Kwame, Patty Mayo, and Lonzo. Everyone thought they would be good. But they either ended up average or just trash. Kwame Brown has no heart for the game of basketball.

But Lebron and Jabbar did. That what made Bron and Jabbar be in the GOAT conversation. The very fact they lived up to the hype. Its unreal
:bowdown:

[QUOTE=Turbo Slayer]Somebody convince why Kawhi is better than Lebron ALL-time. (not the present)

Lebron has 4 MVPs, 3 finals MVP, ROTY, 3 rings on his resume.
Kawhi, on the other hand, has 2 DPOTYs, and 2 Finals MVP

In the present, obviously, I would pick Kawhi over Lebron just for the sheer fact Lebron declining at a slow rate while Kawhi is at the top of his game.

Kawhi while questionable in the 4th quarter HAS shown remarkable progress in his move set. Hes copying Jordan and Kobe which is cool as heck, dude.

Lebron keeps relying on his speed, but it won't get him anywhere doe. He needs to adapt some moves from Kobe and Michael Jeffrey Jordan.

But I pick Lebron in his prime(2009 Lebron) That dude is a beast.
This crazy dude average about 30 points. Thats crazy. If I were to pick which players. I pick Lebron.[/QUOTE]
Considering LeBron is already ranked higher than Jordan and broke all MJ's records let's see if Kawhi can break any of Jordan's records first before we try to compare him to LeBron.

Imagine thinking LeBron isn't top 5 or at the very least top 10?


Yikes.

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Considering LeBron is already ranked higher than Jordan and broke all MJ's records let's see if Kawhi can break any of Jordan's records first before we try to compare him to LeBron.

[QUOTE=Wally450]Imagine thinking LeBron isn't top 5 or at the very least top 10?


Yikes.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, dawg. Yikes.

[QUOTE=Turbo Slayer]FAXX

You're right, my dude. you're cool

Lebron is a generational talent every 25 years. He lived up to the HYPE. Not many players who hyped up actually lives up to the hype.

Don't get me started on Kwame, Patty Mayo, and Lonzo. Everyone thought they would be good. But they either ended up average or just trash. Kwame Brown has no heart for the game of basketball.

But Lebron and Jabbar did. That what made Bron and Jabbar be in the GOAT conversation. The very fact they lived up to the hype. Its unreal
:bowdown:[/QUOTE]

I remember lebron saying his goal was to be in the mount Rushmore of players. I think he's there no matter what happens. As you said, there's always a tendency to overrated current players (and that tends to diminish after said player retires). However, I still cant see Lebron falling below 4. I think he's top 3 personally (as do most people apparently), but it remains to be seen where he will stand when it's done.

I think the majority of people still have Jabbar at 2 but if Lebron were to get a 5th MVP, or another title, that probably moves him ahead of Kareem in most people's eyes.

I think the Jordan ship might have sailed. But he's not far off. And by the time he finished he just might consolidate himself as a 1-B to Jordan, if he racks up a title and another fmvp.

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]I remember lebron saying his goal was to be in the mount Rushmore of players. I think he's there no matter what happens. As you said, there's always a tendency to overrated current players (and that tends to diminish after said player retires). However, I still cant see Lebron falling below 4. I think he's top 3 personally (as do most people apparently), but it remains to be seen where he will stand when it's done.

I think the majority of people still have Jabbar at 2 but if Lebron were to get a 5th MVP, or another title, that probably moves him ahead of Kareem in most people's eyes.

I think the Jordan ship might have sailed. But he's not far off. And by the time he finished he just might consolidate himself as a 1-B to Jordan, if he racks up a title and another fmvp.[/QUOTE]

Yeah if Lebron were to get an MVP or/and a ring on his finger. It's game over. Lebron would forever be locked in as top 3 all-time. But here's an extra. I don't know if Lebron stays in this league for multiple seasons but if he were to BREAK the all-time scoring record. ISH, media and the league would absolutely freak out.

Lebron beating the all-time scoring record would also be a lock for top 3 maybe top 2 players who ever played the game of basketball. Michael, Kobe, Larry, Magic, Karl, Wilt, and countless other legends NEVER broke the record. It would be absolute insanity.
:bowdown:

[QUOTE=Turbo Slayer]Yeah if Lebron were to get an MVP or/and a ring on his finger. It's game over. Lebron would forever be locked in as top 3 all-time. But here's an extra. I don't know if Lebron stays in this league for multiple seasons but if he were to BREAK the all-time scoring record. ISH, media and the league would absolutely freak out.

Lebron beating the all-time scoring record would also be a lock for top 3 maybe top 2 players who played the game of basketball.[/QUOTE]

I thought about that buy that's really a cumulative stat. If you play long enough, you'll score a lot of points. I think a 5th MVP or a 4th fmvp would mean more for his legacy but I see what you're saying. The all time points total would help him in the longevity argument.

I just went outside and played basketball. I can't even put the ball in the hoop.
:roll:

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Considering LeBron is already ranked higher than Jordan and broke all MJ's records let's see if Kawhi can break any of Jordan's records first before we try to compare him to LeBron.

•Get to 5.9k pts 1st (MJ 5.9k, LBJ 6.9k)
•Get to 9 game winners 1st (MJ 9, LBJ 10)
•Get to 8 straight Finals 1st (MJ made 3 consecutively, LBJ 8)
•Get 395 steals 1st (MJ 395, LBJ 419)

Good luck[/QUOTE]
Could you please show me where he is ranked higher, because it’s not at ranker, or ESPN, or anywhere else I can find, thanks.

[QUOTE=TheMan]tl;dr

Larry Legend has called MJ the GOAT...dats gud enuff 4 me!

:hammertime:[/QUOTE]


Bird also said Magic was the best player he's ever seen in 1987. One year after he called Jordan god in basketball shoes. :rockon:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoFbi-w-eeY[/url]

[QUOTE=Replay32]Bird also said Magic was the best player he's ever seen in 1987. One year after he called Jordan god in basketball shoes. :rockon:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoFbi-w-eeY[/url][/QUOTE]

In other words when Jordan was only a 3rd year player. And never repeated it since:lol
Meanwhile, Magic has constantly called Jordan better than he ever was and the best player ever :banana:

[QUOTE=Mr Feeny]I remember lebron saying his goal was to be in the mount Rushmore of players. I think he's there no matter what happens. As you said, there's always a tendency to overrated current players (and that tends to diminish after said player retires). However, I still cant see Lebron falling below 4. I think he's top 3 personally (as do most people apparently), but it remains to be seen where he will stand when it's done.

I think the majority of people still have Jabbar at 2 but if Lebron were to get a 5th MVP, or another title, that probably moves him ahead of Kareem in most people's eyes.

I think the Jordan ship might have sailed. But he's not far off. And by the time he finished he just might consolidate himself as a 1-B to Jordan, if he racks up a title and another fmvp.[/QUOTE]
Lol.. why would 4 rings = 6?

9 conference finals wins in a weak conference with a stacked deck can't be the reason - Kareem had that too

So again, how does 4 rings = 6??

Btw, by ranking lebron so high, you're agreeing with lebron that championships are function of how much talent a team has - nothing more - developing teammates and teamwork isn't a part of it... This is wrong

[QUOTE=3ball]Lol.. why would 4 rings = 6?

9 conference finals wins in a weak conference with a stacked deck can't be the reason - Kareem had that too

So again, how does 4 rings = 6??

Btw, by ranking lebron so high, you're agreeing with lebron that championships are function of how much talent a team has - nothing more - developing teammates and teamwork isn't a part of it... This is wrong[/QUOTE]

He beats MJ in all categories you NBA noob


LBJ > MJ in

Points, Rebounds, Steals, Assists, Blocks, WS, VORP, DRtg, FG%, eFG%, TS%

EVERYTHING

Sorry :(

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]He beats MJ in all categories you NBA noob


LBJ > MJ in

Points, Rebounds, Steals, Assists, Blocks, WS, VORP, DRtg, FG%, eFG%, TS%

EVERYTHING

Sorry :([/QUOTE]$tats!

If it was just because stats, Wilt >

Can you explain why MJ keeps being recognized as the consensus GOAT (and its really not close) by a vast majority of the people? And this almost 20 years since he's been relevant while LBJ is currently being pushed by his shills yet...its still not close according to a vast majority of fans? And don't tell me its hype, LBJ is currently the benefactor of the NBA hype machine yet he never places above him in lists nor polls.

LeBron will never surpass MJ to a majority of fans, if he hasn't already, the more he declines and fades away from the public eye after retirement, the further he will slip.

Sorry :(

[QUOTE=TheMan]$tats!

If it was just because stats, Wilt >

Can you explain why MJ keeps being recognized as the consensus GOAT (and its really not close) by a vast majority of the people? And this almost 20 years since he's been relevant while LBJ is currently being pushed by his shills yet...its still not close according to a vast majority of fans? And don't tell me its hype, LBJ is currently the benefactor of the NBA hype machine yet he never places above him in lists nor polls.

LeBron will never surpass MJ to a majority of fans, if he hasn't already, the more he declines and fades away from the public eye after retirement, the further he will slip.

Sorry :([/QUOTE]


Stats king = LeBron
Rings king = Russell

1st round king = Jordan

Wilt isnt close, but thanks for playing

Use some google, get educated, then come back

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Stats king = LeBron
Rings king = Russell

1st round king = Jordan

Wilt isnt close, but thanks for playing

Use some google, get educated, then come back[/QUOTE]
Why do I even bother with a low IQ like yourself :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=TheCorporation]Stats king = LeBron
Rings king = Russell

1st round king = Jordan

Wilt isnt close, but thanks for playing

Use some google, get educated, then come back[/QUOTE]

You should

60,000 people who saw MJ, Kobe, KAJ, Wilt, and Lebron have lebron around 11 or 12. This is fact based on the ranker site.

Accept it :applause:

[QUOTE=egokiller]60,000 people who saw MJ, Kobe, KAJ, Wilt, and Lebron have lebron around 11 or 12. This is fact based on the ranker site.

Accept it :applause:[/QUOTE]
so you voted 60k times? nice life

[QUOTE=Vino24]so you voted 60k times? nice life[/QUOTE]

The fact that you could even think that just tells us you are making accounts right now to vote up Lebron on ranker. :roll:

Seriously, how upset is this guy that 60k+ have his hero at 11th/12th all time? Oh well. It happens.

[QUOTE=egokiller]The fact that you could even think that just tells us you are making accounts right now to vote up Lebron on ranker. :roll:

Seriously, how upset is this guy that 60k+ have his hero at 11th/12th all time? Oh well. It happens.[/QUOTE]
Has this been the worst summer for LeBron stans like ever? We thought nothing could top 2011 but then 2014 happened, then 2015, then 2017, then 2018 and right up to now where he was exposed out west meanwhile Kawhi leads a ragtag team with not one All Star other than himself, to a title. :lol

Explains why these guys are seething at home and creating shit MJ thread after shit MJ thread :roll:

[QUOTE=TheMan]Has this been the worst summer for LeBron like ever? We thought nothing could top 2011 but then 2014 happened, then 2015, then 2017, then 2018 and right up to now where he was exposed out west meanwhile Kawhi leads a ragtag team with not one All Star other than himself, to a title. :lol

Explains why these guys are seething at home and creating shit MJ thread after shit MJ thread :roll:[/QUOTE]

I

[QUOTE=egokiller]Baby boomers have MJ at 1 and Lebron at 12
Gen X has MJ at 1 and Lebron 11
Millenials have MJ at 1, Lebron at 7 and kobe at 5. :lol

Click on the link below and sort by age.

Just goes to show how Baby boomers and Gen X seen enough to rank MJ at GOAT and know that lebron doesn't even belong in the top 10. They do have Lebron over Kobe, while millennials have kobe over lebron and put kobe at 5 and lebron at 7. :oldlol:

This is more accurate than any biased ESPN poll written by some millennial journalist.

[url]https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time[/url][/QUOTE]


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