MCU Avengers vs DCCU Superman

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]The DC superman supposedly uninhibited didnt actually hurt....anyone. He knocked wonder woman back...shoulder bumped flash who got right back up....and knocked Aquaman back who also seemed unharmed. Batman is a normal human and came out unharmed. Thanos actually wiped out half the universe.[/QUOTE]

Resurrected DCCU Superman really wasn't trying to hurt that group. I think that encounter underscored the fact that even in a fog, he was incredibly powerful and incredibly restrained as he was still trying to gather himself. Lol, at that being Superman uninhibited. Only a little later, we see a jovial, smiling, "how's yo mama and them" Superman throwing Steppenwolf around like a rag doll. MCU Thanos, even without the gauntlet, is certainly more resilient, but he would get stomped in laughingly embarrassing fashion given the capabilities and power of the DCCU Superman. It's an unfair fight.

[B]Thanos' saving grace is the gauntlet[/B], but he's going to have to use it very quickly, otherwise he likely wouldn't get an opportunity to use it at all. And really, that's what it all boils down to: MCU Thanos is going to have to rely heavily on that gauntlet to take Supes... complete dependence on it for him to have any hope. He better work on speeding up his snap.

Outside of the gauntlet, this is a laughable comparison given their respective power levels depicted in the MCU and DCCU.

[QUOTE=MaxFly]Resurrected DCCU Superman really wasn't trying to hurt that group. I think that encounter underscored the fact that even in a fog, he was incredibly powerful and incredibly restrained as he was still trying to gather himself. Lol, at that being Superman uninhibited. Only a little later, we see a jovial, smiling, "how's yo mama and them" Superman throwing Steppenwolf around like a rag doll. MCU Thanos, even without the gauntlet, is certainly more resilient, but he would get stomped in laughingly embarrassing fashion given the capabilities and power of the DCCU Superman. It's an unfair fight.

[B]Thanos' saving grace is the gauntlet[/B], but he's going to have to use it very quickly, otherwise he likely wouldn't get an opportunity to use it at all. And really, that's what it all boils down to: MCU Thanos is going to have to rely heavily on that gauntlet to take Supes... complete dependence on it for him to have any hope. He better work on speeding up his snap.

Outside of the gauntlet, this is a laughable comparison given their respective power levels depicted in the MCU and DCCU.[/QUOTE]

I think with the gauntlet, superman loses. Without the gauntlet, Thanos loses.

If the superman in question didn

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]If the superman in question didn’t fight uninhibited why are we even talking about what superman could do in a scenario you designed while ignoring what Thanos could do in a scenario we design?


Comic book version it’s not a fight at all. Thanos would win because superman is nothing more than a physical threat. In the movies we saw superman strain to break another kryptonian‘s neck and use kryptonite to kill doomsday in a movie where he was just spared by Batman who is just a clever human.

He didn’t actually defeat Steppenwolf either. He knocked him around doing him little harm and they sent him back through the portal with the parademons swarming him.

Superman is forever getting credit for what he could do hypothetically while we ignore that the superman in question never actually does anything. The Thanos in question Had the ability to literally destroy and rebuild of the universe but decided to only wipe out half the life. Superman has never and will never be anything close to that level of threat.

Only superman in an unrestrained hypothetical is a problem and when you put everyone else he’s compared to in an unrestrained hypothetical they could destroy him easily.

You simply cannot be strong or fast enough to defeat people who control time and space.[/QUOTE]

Uhh, you are overestimating Thanos. Thor with Stormbreaker almost killed Thanos, did he not? Thanos had all 6 gems. I know it was a surprise attack by Thor but Superman doing a speed blitz could leave Thanos surprised and unable to counterattack. Remember, Superman can fly as fast as Flash can run. Thanos without the gauntlet can't manipulate time or space.. He needs the gauntlet.

How is Thanos without the gauntlet stopping Superman's nuclear punches off speed blitzes of Flash speeds?

Stormbreaker only worked because of magic though.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]If the superman in question didn

[QUOTE=bladefd]
How is Thanos without the gauntlet stopping Superman's nuclear punches off speed blitzes of Flash speeds?[/QUOTE]

He's not stopping him... I think people fail to realize the vast array of tools Superman has at his disposal. Thanos desperately needs the gauntlet to deal with an DCCU Superman level opponent; it's a mollywopping otherwise. Maybe not the mollywopping Steppenwolf got, but close enough.

People fail to realize that the vast tools you credit superman for using....he doesnt. He didnt in the version discussed(the movies) and he doesnt in the comics. All the superman talks about what he could do center on him super speed dashing in with punches that would crush a planet....which you have never seen him do. You are fabricating his mode of attack but not giving the other side the same benefit of fighting using all the tools at their disposal in the most efficient way possible. Which is why people forever talk about superman beating people who can alter reality.

He can punch people. He can move fast)the rest of his powers are of no consequence in a speed blitz situation). Really that makes him no more a threat than the flash if you go into the subject of infinite mass....Flash at warp speeds could hit something as hard as it could be hit by anything.

But whatever you think he could do....he doesnt. Not in the DCU. Not in the comics. Supermans issue is the same as Thanos.

Not using his full power to end fights right away. He ****s around...just like Thanos. And even in that intentionally weakened state where they tried the "Come in at light speed and snatch it off" it didnt work:


[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/s2Xn3281/main-qimg-ffe07913f67d8012070310b12820bfc1.jpg[/IMG]






You dismiss what happens in the comics to focus on the less powerful MCU version of Thanos....but when its superman we dismiss that hes out here fighting regular humans and losing by being outsmarted and not hurting people as physically weak as the flash.

All the things you credit him for doing is because you know from the source material he could....if he wanted to....and you get to decide how he fights. But you deny his opponents the same advantage because thats the only way superman is ever worth talking about.

Its always "Couldnt he just fly in at light speed and tear his head off?" based on his comicbook ability which he never uses in the DCU while ignoring that the comic book ability of Thanos which is not shown in the MCU...is him literally being the equal of god.



Why does only superman get "If he used his powers perfectly...." credit but not thanos?

Thanos could stop time at the first sign of conflict, teleport to another planet, turn the earth and everyone on it into dust and go take a nap.

Why do you give Superman best case scenario but keep his opponents fighting the way they actually fought?

The way superman ACTUALLY fights in movies or comics?

Hes not a threat. Hes too soft to do what needs doing right away. If we remove the plot induced stupidity from him why make all his opponents keep it?

Superman is a beta cuck. End of story.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Why does only superman get "If he used his powers perfectly...." credit but not thanos?

Thanos could stop time at the first sign of conflict, teleport to another planet, turn the earth and everyone on it into dust and go take a nap.

Why do you give Superman best case scenario but keep his opponents fighting the way they actually fought?

The way superman ACTUALLY fights in movies or comics?

Hes not a threat. Hes too soft to do what needs doing right away. If we remove the plot induced stupidity from him why make all his opponents keep it?[/QUOTE]

Are you saying Thanos can manipulate space and time [I]without the gauntlet[/I]? I'm of the understanding he cannot without the stones.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]People fail to realize that the vast tools you credit superman for using....he doesnt. He didnt in the version discussed(the movies) and he doesnt in the comics. All the superman talks about what he could do center on him super speed dashing in with punches that would crush a planet....which you have never seen him do. You are fabricating his mode of attack but not giving the other side the same benefit of fighting using all the tools at their disposal in the most efficient way possible. Which is why people forever talk about superman beating people who can alter reality.[/QUOTE]

Superman used both his strength and his speed in dealing with Steppenwolf. He also did so during his encounter with the Justice League. He has done so quite often in the comics, and in the cartoons and animated movies, in addition to his other powers. What actual tools does Thanos have without the gauntlet?

[QUOTE]You dismiss what happens in the comics to focus on the less powerful MCU version of Thanos....but when its superman we dismiss that hes out here fighting regular humans and losing by being outsmarted and not hurting people as physically weak as the flash.[/QUOTE]

Thanos was beaten by Squirrel Girl in the comics... Squirrel Girl. Captain America gave him the business for awhile in the movie. Tony made him bleed. DCCU Superman would stomp. Bleeding would be the least of Thanos' worries.

If we're posting random panels from the comics...

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/0XrXqvN/main-qimg-38146707d7d280c7a900031ae40d4c3e-c.jpg[/IMG]

We can start posting stills from the animated movies and tv shows as well.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855][IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/s2Xn3281/main-qimg-ffe07913f67d8012070310b12820bfc1.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Word?

[IMG]http://media.comicbook.com/2018/04/thanos-best-marvel-villain-squirrel-girl-1100644.jpeg[/IMG]

Squirrel girl stalemated galactus according to Spider-Man. If we are treating joke panels and so on as serious Superman beating Darkseid isn

[QUOTE]


Superman used both his strength and his speed in dealing with Steppenwolf. He also did so during his encounter with the Justice League. He has done so quite often in the comics, and in the cartoons and animated movies, in addition to his other powers. What actual tools does Thanos have without the gauntlet?

[/QUOTE]

If using his speed and strength resulted in no real harm to anyone including a powerless human what are we even talking about?

As I said he has not used what you suggest he has you are simply going off what you know he is capable of and giving him credit for it while not giving his opponent credit for what we know he is capable of.

If superman were as mighty as people suggest he wouldn

[QUOTE=bladefd]Dr Fate can hold Dr Strange in check. Easily.

Superman would make chutney out of Captain Marvel. Hell, Shazam aka the original Captain Marvel would spank Captain Marvel's ass red :oldlol:

Set Wonder woman and Captain Atom on hulk and superman on Thor. Shazam on Captain Marvel. Flash and hawk girl can keep Vision busy. Martian manhunter on the Scarlett Witch. Green lantern can take on Iron man. Batman on Captain America. It's a wrap.[/QUOTE]
Dr. Fate? Green Lantern? Martian manhunter? I'm sorry but this is a completely different JL universe than the one that exists today and the one OP is talking about.

Also, Shazam, with his intellect, gets destroyed by Captain Marvel.

[QUOTE=MaxFly]Were're talking MCU and DCCU versions of these characters and "what if" scenarios. I'm going off of what the OP posted and the title of the thread. Quite frankly, DCCU Superman, morals on and all, would humiliate MCU Thanos without the gauntlet. No morals and the credits are rolling as soon as the location shot of the fight is established. It's a laughable fight. Thanos is going to desperately need that gauntlet or some other sort of crutch against DCCU Supes. And even with the gauntlet, he better not hesitate.



Lol, after trying to talk Batman down and inhaling kryptonite gas a few times... and being nuked... in the space of 20 minutes.

He mollywopped Steppenwolf. Punched and threw him around the room and had him straining to get up. He went and did other things and came back to knock him around a little more, just for giggles, and all with a smile on his face. Dude was cracking jokes.



...unless the person wielding that power needs to snap their fingers or carry out some other machination to control time and space. If Superman knows anything about the gauntlet, Thanos is going to have to be exceedingly quick with his handwave, arm turn or whatever he needs to do to carry out his attack and to keep possession of the gauntlet. Again, the gauntlet gives MCU Thanos a big leg up, but even then it's not a guaranteed win if he isn't fast in using it. What is a guaranteed win is the one for DCCU Superman without the gauntlet... that's not even close... it's an embarrassing stomp fest to be honest given Thanos' dependency on the gauntlet.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, without the gauntlet, DCEU Superman > MCU Thanos.

However, with the gauntlet the gap is even bigger in favor of Thanos not smaller.


You say "with knowledge/prep" Superman can do this and that, well if Thanos is also given knowledge of Superman, he could use the Time Stone to even see different outcomes the fight and adjust accordingly.

Without knowledge, Superman, the DCEU version, just stares him down maybe throws a punch, and then gets wrecked in so many different ways. End of fight.

Also, Thanos in MCU has shown some pretty impressive reactionary feats, you don't have to be lightning fast to react to something lightning fast. We have seen that in movies, Dark Phoenix was able to react to quicksilver despite never being nearly as quick. Thanos in the beginning of Infinity War was able to react and use his stones against Loki's surprise attack while Loki was inches away from him, and Loki has been known to be a quick sneaky character. There are plenty of others. I think if he can do that, he can react to Superman coming from distance yards away.

[QUOTE=MaxFly]My money would decidedly be on an unhinged, moral-less Superman... especially under a yellow sun. We've seen versions of this Superman in the past, but rarely uncaged and out for blood. The problem with Superman is that he simply has too many powers with which to adequately contend if he isn't holding back, and he can use them in concert: strength, super speed, flight, heat vision, super hearing, super vision, x-ray vision, freeze breath, hurricane breath, durability, excellent healing factor. His Flash-lite speed and ridiculous strength alone make it difficult to defend against him. Someone with his strength hitting someone with the kind of speed he can harness would leave almost all the Avengers dead within the first second.

.[/QUOTE]

Almost all the Avengers dead within the 1st second? What? :oldlol:

If he fought them like he fought the Justice League, he would be finished in NO TIME. Staring the avengers down, and waiting for them to attack, he would get destroyed. He may hold up physically but once Strange uses some magic, Superman is finished. And almost all the Avengers dead with 1 punch? Um lets see, Ironman no. Thor no. Captain Marvel no. Hulk no. Vision no. Heck even Captain America and Black Panther could take a punch from Superman and be alive. But "almost all" is a HUGE stretch for sure lol

Superman has a better chance against Thanos with the infinity gauntlet than the Avengers, and I think he has little to no chance against Thanos with infinity gauntlet.

[QUOTE=Doctor K]Almost all the Avengers dead within the 1st second? What? :oldlol:

If he fought them like he fought the Justice League, he would be finished in NO TIME. Staring the avengers down, and waiting for them to attack, he would get destroyed. He may hold up physically but once Strange uses some magic, Superman is finished. And almost all the Avengers dead with 1 punch? Um lets see, Ironman no. Thor no. Captain Marvel no. Hulk no. Vision no. [B]Heck even Captain America and Black Panther could take a punch from Superman and be alive. But "almost all" is a HUGE stretch for sure lol [/B]

Superman has a better chance against Thanos with the infinity gauntlet than the Avengers, and I think he has little to no chance against Thanos with infinity gauntlet.[/QUOTE]


It depends on whoever is writing.

Superman should be able to punch Capt and Black Panther and kill them. He's too fast and is another class too strong. But it depends if Supes is stronger than Thanos physically. Thanos punched Capt, but didn't kill him. With Doctor Strange, it depends on his reaction speed. If he uses his magic on time before Supes can attack, then he could mess with him. Especially if he has the time stone. If not, one shot, he should be dead. And it depends on what magic that Dr. Strange uses. Scarlet Witch would be the same thing as Doc Strange.

Thor, Hulk, Capt Marvel could all take a hit. IM could be similar too. He also took a few punches from Thanos and didn't die. Vision too maybe.

Supes do have a lot of powers and with no morals, he should be able to speed blitz all of them. The only ppl who could hurt him would be Doctor Strange, Thor, and maybe Scarlet Witch.

Capt Marvel, I don't know yet. While she would be able to absorb the heat vision and tap into her binary state, don't know if she's strong enough to handle supes. Might be able to hold her own for a time.

Hulk has to get angry enough to go into his max potential, but he got his ass kicked by Thanos.

But Thanos with the IG would be able to defeat Supes. He would just turn him into dust or he could turn him into anything he wants. But, it seems like he has to snap or do some physical movement with the IG to activate it in the MCU. So, if Supes knew about it, he could speed blitz Thanos and take it off. In the comics tho, Supes dead.

All in all tho, it's not TOO much of a stretch that he could kill some of the Avengers in less than a second using his speed. I don't think in the DCCU that Supes moved in light speed, but still has Flash like speed (could he go light speed in the movies?). With a person with that much strength and speed, he should be able take them out one by one with a upper cut or punch through their chest without them realizing what happened. But Supes is never written like that, even with no morals off except for a few instances. It tends to be a logical inconsistent, but it builds up drama.

Like remember this scene from Age of Ultron between Quicksilver and Capt?
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec-p6BhGM6w#t=01m40s[/url]

Supes can move that fast. A punch from Supes with no morals off, that head goes off. This should happen with a few of the Avengers.

Someone wanna point out to me this no morals speed blitzing DCU superman and tell me how I missed him?

If he was no morals superman vs the justice league....he still didnt seriously injure anyone including a fully human batman who didnt even have the batman/superman power suit on.

The closest he comes to no morals is when he killed Zod but he was broken up about it. The no morals superman doesnt exist in the movies. And if thats the superman we are talking about....we are clearly giving him a hypothetical ruthless mindstate and assuming he does things he never actually does.

So again....why doesnt the other side get the same credit? And plus....we are giving Superman pre existing knowledge of the gauntlet and its weaknesses?

You think Tony Stark with pre existing knowledge of superman and his weakness wouldnt be able to kill him when Batman was able to but spared him? Give Thanos or Ironman advanced knowledge of superman hed be fighting under a floating chunk of Krypton the size of Brooklyn and die as he approached.

Plenty of people have kicked supermans ass just off knowing he needs yellow sunlight and is killed by kryponite. The Joker...Luthor....random humans with red light rooms and so on.

Thanos would probably stay on a planet under a red sun and wait. Even at light speed it takes several minutes to cross a solar system. If superman could even get there....he wouldnt be full strength....and Thanos would know about his other weakness(s). There are so many ways superman loses in a fair fight....but we only wanna give him the advantage I suppose. Because he needs it.

We talking stormbreaker Thor with that almost all Avengers dead in the 1st second stuff? No chance. Watch the Wakanda battle again. Supes isn't speed blitzing anything and ignoring Thor.

Whole lot of people ignoring Goku would wipe the floor with both.

Instant teleportation. Quick speed. Power beyond measure. Can dodge any attack without even thinking.

He was able to destroy planets with a single blast of power back in his SS1 days...he's thousands of times stronger now. I mean, powering up to MUI created some sort of galaxy energy void that he absorbed it like nothing.

He's shown to be able to break through time and alternate universes. That was in his SSB days...as MUI? Ummm no contest.

[QUOTE=Doctor K]Dr. Fate? Green Lantern? Martian manhunter? I'm sorry but this is a completely different JL universe than the one that exists today and the one OP is talking about.

Also, Shazam, with his intellect, gets destroyed by Captain Marvel.[/QUOTE]

Shazam is almost as powerful as Superman. The two fought head to head and Shazam held his own against an angry Superman. Shazam can hold down the fort against Captain Marvel, at least until Superman murders Thor. Then Superman can go finish off whatever is left of Iron man, hulk, vision, etc before returning to assist Shazam in slaughtering Captain Marvel.

[QUOTE=Doctor K]Almost all the Avengers dead within the 1st second? What? :oldlol:

If he fought them like he fought the Justice League, he would be finished in NO TIME. Staring the avengers down, and waiting for them to attack, he would get destroyed. He may hold up physically but once Strange uses some magic, Superman is finished. And almost all the Avengers dead with 1 punch? Um lets see, Ironman no. Thor no. Captain Marvel no. Hulk no. Vision no. Heck even Captain America and Black Panther could take a punch from Superman and be alive. But "almost all" is a HUGE stretch for sure lol

Superman has a better chance against Thanos with the infinity gauntlet than the Avengers, and I think he has little to no chance against Thanos with infinity gauntlet.[/QUOTE]

Jeez.. I can't stop laughing at your post but I will let it be. :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=bladefd]Shazam is almost as powerful as Superman. The two fought head to head and Shazam held his own against an angry Superman. Shazam can hold down the fort against Captain Marvel, at least until Superman murders Thor. Then Superman can go finish off whatever is left of Iron man, hulk, vision, etc before returning to assist Shazam in slaughtering Captain Marvel.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if you are serious. Do you think Dr. Strange this whole time just sits there and watches and waits for Superman to come to him? :facepalm

Superman's weakness has always been magic and Dr. Strange has plenty of it. Once he uses some on Superman, this fight is over.

[QUOTE=Micku]It depends on whoever is writing.

Superman should be able to punch Capt and Black Panther and kill them. He's too fast and is another class too strong. But it depends if Supes is stronger than Thanos physically. Thanos punched Capt, but didn't kill him. With Doctor Strange, it depends on his reaction speed. If he uses his magic on time before Supes can attack, then he could mess with him. Especially if he has the time stone. If not, one shot, he should be dead. And it depends on what magic that Dr. Strange uses. Scarlet Witch would be the same thing as Doc Strange.

Thor, Hulk, Capt Marvel could all take a hit. IM could be similar too. He also took a few punches from Thanos and didn't die. Vision too maybe.

Supes do have a lot of powers and with no morals, he should be able to speed blitz all of them. The only ppl who could hurt him would be Doctor Strange, Thor, and maybe Scarlet Witch.

Capt Marvel, I don't know yet. While she would be able to absorb the heat vision and tap into her binary state, don't know if she's strong enough to handle supes. Might be able to hold her own for a time.

Hulk has to get angry enough to go into his max potential, but he got his ass kicked by Thanos.

But Thanos with the IG would be able to defeat Supes. He would just turn him into dust or he could turn him into anything he wants. But, it seems like he has to snap or do some physical movement with the IG to activate it in the MCU. So, if Supes knew about it, he could speed blitz Thanos and take it off. In the comics tho, Supes dead.

[B]All in all tho, it's not TOO much of a stretch that he could kill some of the Avengers in less than a second using his speed.[/B] I don't think in the DCCU that Supes moved in light speed, but still has Flash like speed (could he go light speed in the movies?). With a person with that much strength and speed, he should be able take them out one by one with a upper cut or punch through their chest without them realizing what happened. But Supes is never written like that, even with no morals off except for a few instances. It tends to be a logical inconsistent, but it builds up drama.

Like remember this scene from Age of Ultron between Quicksilver and Capt?
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec-p6BhGM6w#t=01m40s[/url]

Supes can move that fast. A punch from Supes with no morals off, that head goes off. This should happen with a few of the Avengers.[/QUOTE]

I agree with he could kill some of them in 1 punch, but the original statement was "almost all" which is what I disagreed with.

Ironman - no
Vision - no
Captain Marvel - no
Thor - no
Hulk - no
Spiderman/Captain America/Black Panther - maybe
rest- probably

[QUOTE=highwhey]Whole lot of people ignoring Goku would wipe the floor with both.

Instant teleportation. Quick speed. Power beyond measure. Can dodge any attack without even thinking.

He was able to destroy planets with a single blast of power back in his SS1 days...he's thousands of times stronger now. I mean, powering up to MUI created some sort of galaxy energy void that he absorbed it like nothing.

He's shown to be able to break through time and alternate universes. That was in his SSB days...as MUI? Ummm no contest.[/QUOTE]
Dark Phoenix >

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Someone wanna point out to me this no morals speed blitzing DCU superman and tell me how I missed him?

If he was no morals superman vs the justice league....he still didnt seriously injure anyone including a fully human batman who didnt even have the batman/superman power suit on.

[B]The closest he comes to no morals is when he killed Zod but he was broken up about it. [U]The no morals superman doesnt exist in the movies.[/U] And if thats the superman we are talking about....we are clearly giving him a hypothetical ruthless mindstate and assuming he does things he never actually does.
[/B]
So again....why doesnt the other side get the same credit? And plus....we are giving Superman pre existing knowledge of the gauntlet and its weaknesses?

You think Tony Stark with pre existing knowledge of superman and his weakness wouldnt be able to kill him when Batman was able to but spared him? Give Thanos or Ironman advanced knowledge of superman hed be fighting under a floating chunk of Krypton the size of Brooklyn and die as he approached.

Plenty of people have kicked supermans ass just off knowing he needs yellow sunlight and is killed by kryponite. The Joker...Luthor....random humans with red light rooms and so on.

Thanos would probably stay on a planet under a red sun and wait. Even at light speed it takes several minutes to cross a solar system. If superman could even get there....he wouldnt be full strength....and Thanos would know about his other weakness(s). There are so many ways superman loses in a fair fight....but we only wanna give him the advantage I suppose. Because he needs it.[/QUOTE]

Of course morals Superman exist in the movies. He straight up told Batman that if he wanted to, Bats would've been dead already in Batman vs Superman. That whole fought was morals on, holding back Superman. Batman used kryptonite as the advantage which Supes had no knowledge of, but Supes on his potential last breath just wanted him to save Martha.

If I can recall, he doesn't kill those terrorist in the movies. The only ones that he killed are Zodd and Doomsday.

Honestly, Batman against Superman would stand no chance if Superman were to have out to kill him. This does depend on the writer too. The whole thing was dumb since Superman could've just speed blitz to save his own mother.

He could've killed the Justice League in the movies. What could they do to hurt him? The fact he was able to react and keep up with the Flash, shows just potentially how he could wipe them all out before they even realize what happened.

And again with the Avengers. Superman is too fast. Seeing as quicksilver is too fast for the Avengers, Supes could potentially could one shot Capt America, Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, Falcon, Winter Solder, Hawkeye, and Black Widow. He should one shot Spiderman, but Spidy could potentially dodge it depending on how fast Supes is going and the spider sense.

The only ones that could take a hit would be Thor, Hulk, Capt Marvel, Vision and Ironman. But they would not be able to keep up with him. Supes is too fast and has too many powers. And the only ones that could legit hurt him would be Capt Marvel in her binary state possibly, Hulk if his angry enough, Thor and Strange with their magic, and Scarlet Witch.

If they have any pre prep knowledge, then probably the Avengers would win assuming if they have kryptonite. They might need it if they have Dr. Strange.

If they don't, and if Supes have no morals and is bloodlusted, how can they defeat him? They have to rely on magic. Maaaaybe Capt Marvel, Hulk and Thor may have the brute force to hurt him, but it won't take him down.

Like legit, how strong is Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Cyborg in the movies? Are they Thor or Capt Marvel level? IM level? Base Hulk level? If all three can't even push Superman, he stood still as a statue, and Supes just throw them like it's nothing, then I feel like it would be only a matter of time before he takes down some of the heavy hitters in Marvel.

[QUOTE=Micku]

And again with the Avengers. Superman is too fast. Seeing as quicksilver is too fast for the Avengers, Supes could potentially could one shot Capt America, Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Dr. Strange, Falcon, Winter Solder, Hawkeye, and Black Widow. He should one shot Spiderman, but Spidy could potentially dodge it depending on how fast Supes is going and the spider sense.

The only ones that could take a hit would be Thor, Hulk, Capt Marvel and Ironman. But they would not be able to keep up with him. Supes is too fast and has too many powers. And the only ones that could legit hurt him would be Capt Marvel in her binary state possibly, Hulk if his angry enough, Thor and Strange with their magic, and Scarlet Witch.

If they have any pre prep knowledge, then probably the Avengers would win assuming if they have kryptonite. They might need it if they have Dr. Strange.

If they don't, and if Supes have no morals and is bloodlusted, how can they defeat him? They have to rely on magic. Maaaaybe Capt Marvel, Hulk and Thor may have the brute force to hurt him, but it won't take him down.[/QUOTE]

If Superman also doesn't have any prep-knowledge, and he is as bloodlusted as we have seen him in the movies, how does he win? As soon as Dr. Strange has a second and Superman is a bit pre-occupied (there are many who could occupy him), it's finished.

Suppose he does go to get Dr. Strange 1st, okay, without knowledge the odds of that would be < 10%, and even then the rest of the fight isn't a lock for Superman.

But the other 90+% he doens't go after Strange 1st ? Superman stands almost not chance once he lets Dr. Strange do his thing.

Here's how I see it going down in the movies


1st there is a long stand-off where each side just stares each other down. Then Superman and Thor charge at each other, Superman gets the best of it but after that he's hit with a strong punch from Hulk, which he takes and then charges at Hulk but at that point Wanda slows him down with her TK, then Vision gets a infinity stone energy blast at him, Ironman blasts him with firepower, Captain Marvel unleashes some of her energy, Thor blasts him with Thunder, and its kind of like the Age of Ultron scene where Superman is slowly getting weaker, and then Dr. Strange finishes him off with some magic trick and the fight is over.

[QUOTE=highwhey]Whole lot of people ignoring Goku would wipe the floor with both.

Instant teleportation. Quick speed. Power beyond measure. Can dodge any attack without even thinking.

He was able to destroy planets with a single blast of power back in his SS1 days...he's thousands of times stronger now. I mean, powering up to MUI created some sort of galaxy energy void that he absorbed it like nothing.

He's shown to be able to break through time and alternate universes. That was in his SSB days...as MUI? Ummm no contest.[/QUOTE]

DCCU Supes may not compete. Comic book Superman is different. It just depends on which era you use.

Plus DB is inconsistent. Similar to Supes in that way too.

In Battle of the Gods, Goku fighting with Beerus was about to destroy the Universe. Yet him fighting with Goku Black and Golden Frieza in a powerful form, the discussion did not come up.

Bullets sting base Goku in Super. While in the original DB, kid Goku took a bullet to the face with Bulma and the Red Ribbon Army.

In the manga (I know the manga and anime are different, but to make a point), I think...SSJ1 Vegeta had trouble with lifting 1000 tons right here:
[url]https://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t2314034-magetta-weighs-1-000-tons-ssj-vegeta-weak/#&gid=40485064&pid=3076349016[/url]

Depending on which Superman you use, that's nothing. All Star superman (not canon) did 200 Quintillion Ton.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQAJTfH13Pw[/url]

That's an absurd number. Any SSJ1 form don't stand a chance against that level of strength.

Silver age Supes got him moving like more than 10 planets at once.
[url]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1464/24615564911_b3a84b30c2_o.jpg[/url]

Striking power is different. Beerus was shown to split a planet with his finger tip. I saw a scan in which Superman in post crisis was able to split one of Saturn's moon apart. This one:
[url]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11120/111200299/4235136-2608248-____smashing_the_moon_____.jpg[/url]

It does depend on which Superman you use and try to get all the logically inconsistency out of the way with both of them. Movie Supes don't have enough feats to stand against Goku tho.

[QUOTE=Doctor K]If Superman also doesn't have any prep-knowledge, and he is as bloodlusted as we have seen him in the movies, how does he win? As soon as Dr. Strange has a second and Superman is a bit pre-occupied (there are many who could occupy him), it's finished.

Suppose he does go to get Dr. Strange 1st, okay, without knowledge the odds of that would be < 10%, and even then the rest of the fight isn't a lock for Superman.

But the other 90+% he doens't go after Strange 1st ? Superman stands almost not chance once he lets Dr. Strange do his thing.[/QUOTE]

Dr Strange has to do actual hand-signs & speak to do magic. He is not like Dr Fate where he can do magic instantly in his head without having to say or do any hand-signs. Avengers would have to cover Dr Strange for a bit as he does his spells. Superman will blast by Captain Marvel, Thor and hulk then do 1 punch. Dr Strange's head becomes mush like cream cheese. Focus all your resources on killing Dr Strange. Even 1 speed punch (or 500 punches in 1 second) from Flash would destroy Strange. You can't protect Strange from both Superman and Flash at those insane speeds even with Hulk, Captain Marvel and Thor. Only Captain Marvel from the entire Avengers team is fast enough to keep up with Superman and Flash, but she can't stop both (and she is that fast only when in her binary form).

Keep in mind Shazam & Wonder woman have superspeed too. So use those 4 superspeed heroes to focus on Strange & Witch, the only 2 weaknesses of Superman. Once those 2 go down at the beginning of battle, it's over for you buddy. :cheers:

Also keep in mind I'm going by the movies like you wanted so no Martian Manhunter or Dr Fate or Captain Atom or Green Lantern to savagely obliterate the Avengers. I get just Superman, Flash, Shazam, Wonder woman, Batman, Aquaman, Cyborg, etc. So Justice League is essentially neutered.

[QUOTE=bladefd]Dr Strange has to do actual hand-signs & speak to do magic. He is not like Dr Fate where he can do magic instantly in his head without having to say or do any hand-signs. Avengers would have to cover Dr Strange for a bit as he does his spells. Superman will blast by Captain Marvel, Thor and hulk then do 1 punch. Dr Strange's head becomes mush like cream cheese. Focus all your resources on killing Dr Strange. Even 1 speed punch (or 500 punches in 1 second) from Flash would destroy Strange. You can't protect Strange from both Superman and Flash at those insane speeds even with Hulk, Captain Marvel and Thor. Only Captain Marvel from the entire Avengers team is fast enough to keep up with Superman and Flash, but she can't stop both (and she is that fast only when in her binary form).

Keep in mind Shazam & Wonder woman have superspeed too. So use those 4 superspeed heroes to focus on Strange & Witch, the only 2 weaknesses of Superman. Once those 2 go down at the beginning of battle, it's over for you buddy. :cheers:

Also keep in mind I'm going by the movies like you wanted so no Martian Manhunter or Dr Fate or Captain Atom or Green Lantern. I get just Superman, Flash, Shazam, Wonder woman, Batman, Aquaman, Cyborg, etc. So Justice League is essentially neutered.[/QUOTE]

Strange separates Superman's soul from his body and transports him to the astral realm. Done deal.

Going by movies I would have

Thor > Superman (magic lightning weakness, just like how Shazam beat him in Kingdom Come)
Hulk < Shazam (Shazam has more powers but Hulk has more durability and strength, however MCU Hulk is nerfed compared to comic version so I'll go with Shazam)
Captain Marvel > Wonder Woman (Marvel has similar strength and training as WW, but she also has more powers)
CA > Batman (Assuming no prep, CA is an enhanced super soldier with an indestructible shield also, this Batman is older)
Vision = Cyborg (Cyborg has the motherbox, Vision has the soulstone. I'm calling this even)
Quicksilver = Flash (Yes I know Flash beats Quicksilver in the comics but in the movies they are pretty much equal)

Scarlet Witch, Widow, Hawkeye, Panther, Spiderman, Dr. Strange, Ironman, Winter Soldier, Ant Man, Wasp, War Machine > Aquaman (Aquaman is pretty durable, but Avengers win here with shear numbers. Avengers win this handily)

[QUOTE=Facepalm]Strange separates Superman's soul from his body and transports him to the astral realm. Done deal.[/QUOTE]

Again, Strange needs time to do the spell and hand-signs.

[QUOTE=bladefd]Again, Strange needs time to do the spell and hand-signs.[/QUOTE]
He has plenty of backup to occupy Superman while he performs those handsigns. Superman will be to busy dealing with tanks such as Thor, Capt. Marvel, Hulk, Iron Man, Vision and War Machine. Also, which Strange is he gonna go after?

[IMG]https://img.youtube.com/vi/UwtYt3PqAcg/mqdefault.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=bladefd]Dr Strange has to do actual hand-signs & speak to do magic. He is not like Dr Fate where he can do magic instantly in his head without having to say or do any hand-signs. Avengers would have to cover Dr Strange for a bit as he does his spells. Superman will blast by Captain Marvel, Thor and hulk then do 1 punch. Dr Strange's head becomes mush like cream cheese. Focus all your resources on killing Dr Strange. Even 1 speed punch (or 500 punches in 1 second) from Flash would destroy Strange. You can't protect Strange from both Superman and Flash at those insane speeds even with Hulk, Captain Marvel and Thor. Only Captain Marvel from the entire Avengers team is fast enough to keep up with Superman and Flash, but she can't stop both (and she is that fast only when in her binary form).

Keep in mind Shazam & Wonder woman have superspeed too. So use those 4 superspeed heroes to focus on Strange & Witch, the only 2 weaknesses of Superman. Once those 2 go down at the beginning of battle, it's over for you buddy. :cheers:

Also keep in mind I'm going by the movies like you wanted so no Martian Manhunter or Dr Fate or Captain Atom or Green Lantern to savagely obliterate the Avengers. I get just Superman, Flash, Shazam, Wonder woman, Batman, Aquaman, Cyborg, etc. So Justice League is essentially neutered.[/QUOTE]

As I mentioned in my post, there is < 10% Superman goes after Dr. Strange 1st with no knowledge on either side. Your whole post was based on previous knowledge and knowing they had to go after Dr. Strange 1st. Without knowledge, highly unlikely the whole team goes after Dr. Strange 1st and foremost, and if they don't, they lose plain and simple.

And if you want to add knowledge and prep time, well Dr. Strange can use his timestone and see ahead to different outcomes of the fight and prep accordingly.


Either way....Avengers prevail

[QUOTE=Doctor K]As I mentioned in my post, there is < 10% Superman goes after Dr. Strange 1st with no knowledge on either side. Your whole post was based on previous knowledge and knowing they had to go after Dr. Strange 1st. Without knowledge, highly unlikely the whole team goes after Dr. Strange 1st and foremost, and if they don't, they lose plain and simple.

And if you want to add knowledge and prep time, well Dr. Strange can use his timestone and see ahead to different outcomes of the fight and prep accordingly.


Either way....Avengers prevail[/QUOTE]


sounds like we need a comic book draft

[QUOTE=Doctor K]If Superman also doesn't have any prep-knowledge, and he is as bloodlusted as we have seen him in the movies, how does he win? As soon as Dr. Strange has a second and Superman is a bit pre-occupied (there are many who could occupy him), it's finished.

Suppose he does go to get Dr. Strange 1st, okay, without knowledge the odds of that would be < 10%, and even then the rest of the fight isn't a lock for Superman.

But the other 90+% he doens't go after Strange 1st ? Superman stands almost not chance once he lets Dr. Strange do his thing.[/QUOTE]

I would say it depends on the spell that Dr. Strange uses. Cuz Dr. Strange spells in the movies are kind'a lacking compared to his comic version from what I seen and heard from ppl who Dr. Strange fans.

I would imagine Strange could put him in the mirror dimension, and that would be the end of it. If he has the time stone, he could use it to trap Supes.

If he doesn't do that, then maybe a dimensional portal to potentially cut off one of his limbs? I think the Russo Brothers said/speculate that it wouldn't hurt Thanos tho because he's too durable. If it doesn't hurt Thanos, then it may not hurt Supes. Dr. Strange could separate Supes soul away from his body, but I think that requires him to touch him?

Like I don't think movie Dr. Strange has the ability to kill Supes based upon what we seen? I could be wrong. But he could definitely contain him.

The rest of the cast? I dunno. Street levels don't stand chance. The heavy hitters could possibly hurt him, but won't stop him. Supes has a faster reaction time, too fast, and too strong. Like they should not be able to hit him at all. Of course it never works out that way.

But I almost forgot about something. Could Stormbreaker cut Supes tho? Thanos is one of the most durable creatures in the MCU and it could cut him. So, if it could, it would increase Thor's chances. He could kill Supes with a good hit. If it can't, then they have to rely on magic. I'm just assuming that Supes is more durable than Thanos because Ironman made Thanos bleed. Well, a small cut. I can't imagine Supes getting a cut from IM.

Scarlet Witch could mess up Superman if they go through with her full power. But if she's like she was in Endgame, then probably slow him down. It might restrain him enough for Dr. Strange or Thor to take care of things.

But this is all assuming how fast Supes is going. His reaction time beats them all. He shouldn't really get hit at all, but again, it's never written like that. He could think he could tank some attacks.

[QUOTE=Micku]I would say it depends on the spell that Dr. Strange uses. Cuz Dr. Strange spells in the movies are kind'a lacking compared to his comic version from what I seen and heard from ppl who Dr. Strange fans.

I would imagine Strange could put him in the mirror dimension, and that would be the end of it. If he has the time stone, he could use it to trap Supes.

If he doesn't do that, then maybe a dimensional portal to potentially cut off one of his limbs? I think the Russo Brothers said/speculate that it wouldn't hurt Thanos tho because he's too durable. If it doesn't hurt Thanos, then it may not hurt Supes. Dr. Strange could separate Supes soul away from his body, but I think that requires him to touch him?

Like I don't think movie Dr. Strange has the ability to kill Supes based upon what we seen? I could be wrong. But he could definitely contain him.

The rest of the cast? I dunno. Street levels don't stand chance. The heavy hitters could possibly hurt him, but won't stop him. Supes has a faster reaction time, too fast, and too strong. Like they should not be able to hit him at all. Of course it never works out that way.

But I almost forgot about something. Could Stormbreaker cut Supes tho? Thanos is one of the most durable creatures in the MCU and it could cut him. So, if it could, it would increase Thor's chances. He could kill Supes with a good hit. If it can't, then they have to rely on magic. I'm just assuming that Supes is more durable than Thanos because Ironman made Thanos bleed. Well, a small cut. I can't imagine Supes getting a cut from IM.

Scarlet Witch could mess up Superman if they go through with her full power. But if she's like she was in Endgame, then probably slow him down. It might restrain him enough for Dr. Strange or Thor to take care of things.

But this is all assuming how fast Supes is going. His reaction time beats them all. He shouldn't really get hit at all, but again, it's never written like that. He could think he could tank some attacks.[/QUOTE]

Yeah the Stormbreaker not only could cut Superman, but it is also magic, so it can definitely do damage to Superman enough to take him out. If he goes for the head, it is over for Superman.

Captain Marvel has been shown to travel at speeds faster than Superman so she can keep up and her durability is also top class flying through rockets and not even budging to punches thrown by Thanos.

But yeah Strange uses his time stone to slow Superman (or do whatever) and Thor comes in for the finish at the head and its over.


Superman has a very low likleyhood to win, so many things would have to go right for him to take it. But 99/100 Avengers prevail.

[QUOTE=Doctor K]Yeah the Stormbreaker not only could cut Superman, but it is also magic, so it can definitely do damage to Superman enough to take him out. If he goes for the head, it is over for Superman.

Captain Marvel has been shown to travel at speeds faster than Superman so she can keep up and her durability is also top class flying through rockets and not even budging to punches thrown by Thanos.

But yeah Strange uses his time stone to slow Superman (or do whatever) and Thor comes in for the finish at the head and its over.


Superman has a very low likleyhood to win, so many things would have to go right for him to take it. But 99/100 Avengers prevail.[/QUOTE]

People forget Superman's weakness to magic. Thor could beat him by himself.

[QUOTE=Doctor K]As I mentioned in my post, there is < 10% Superman goes after Dr. Strange 1st with no knowledge on either side. Your whole post was based on previous knowledge and knowing they had to go after Dr. Strange 1st. Without knowledge, highly unlikely the whole team goes after Dr. Strange 1st and foremost, and if they don't, they lose plain and simple.

And if you want to add knowledge and prep time, well Dr. Strange can use his timestone and see ahead to different outcomes of the fight and prep accordingly.


Either way....Avengers prevail[/QUOTE]

Same could be said going the other way. Nobody on Avengers team would know Superman's durability or abilities/powers. Why would Strange or Witch even target Superman from the get-go or Avengers even feel the need to put Hulk, Thor and/or Captain Marvel on Strange/Witch guard duty to protect from Superman/Flash/Shazam/Wonder-woman? They don't know Superman is weak to magic either.

Justice League can figure out quickly who the magic users are based on their opening attacks so they can quickly gauge who to go after. Chances of Avengers figuring out Superman is weak to magic and to go after him first after just the opening act are slim to none. By the time they figure it out, half the Avengers would probably be dead.