How did Lebron James lose to a Career Loser in Dwight Howard with HCA while having a

Tbf I remember Stan Van Gundy saying the same thing. I believe it was on Greenberg and golic's radio show, when that was still going on. I don't remember him explicitly saying it in the words 3ball used but he alluded to it. So he isn't making it up.

What I find interesting is how people literally say 1 thing in an interview and then completely contradict themselves years later in another. It happens all the time with coaches and players. Anyone involved in sports.

[B]Stan Van Gundy said they won by playing lebron straight up and staying at home/locking down teammates

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601[/url]


So guys like MJ, Curry, and Kobe would've won the series by getting the same production as Lebron WHILE getting double so teammates can get off too[/B]



Ultimately, defenses meet a driver at the rim with multiple defenders, whereas the only way to stop a hot jumpshooter is to get the ball out of their hands (double-team) - indeed, only great jumpshooters like MJ, Curry, Bird, and Kobe get doubled...

Otoh, ball-dominant bricklayers like Westbrook and Lebron are left to their own devices - they won't get hot from the outside and their scoring is the plodding type that takes a lot of dribbles and you see it coming (ball-dominance), so opponents prefer defending this versus defending ball movement and complicated off-ball stuff (pindowns, etc)..

So Lebron's inability to get doubled is a huge flaw in his game that explains how his heavily-favored Cavs lost... And I know that most people think it's crazy to blame Lebron - this is true in a way because Lebron's production allows them to have a good team with only Mo as 2nd option and sub-par cast... But it's still Lebron's fault compared to other greats like MJ, Curry or Kobe that can produce the same amount while getting doubled, so teammates get off and the team has a more powerful attack overall...

[QUOTE=3ball]only great jumpshooters like MJ, Curry, Bird, and Kobe get doubled... [/QUOTE]

Great jump shooters like Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, etc?

[QUOTE=Overdrive]Great jump shooters like Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, etc?[/QUOTE]
I'm obviously talking perimeter players

(hence the expression meeting "drivers" at the rim)

Orlando had the number one DRtg during the regular season at 101.9. Against LeBron's Cavs that shot up to 110.6 almost identical to the 110.8 the Lakers put up against the Magic. In fact the Lakers saw a bigger drop in their ORtg from the regular season in the series against the Magic than the Cavaliers did. Orlando, the best regular season defense, would only qualify as the 22nd best defense in the league if they defended during the regular season as poorly as they defended the Cavs. The Cavaliers offense was rolling against the league's best defense.

On the other side of the ball, where the real story of the series happened, the Cavs defense went from a regular season DRtg of 102.4 to 113.3 in the Magic series. Even if the Cavs offense was better than the Lakers offense, they still lose that series because their defense couldn't handle the Magic's combination of spacing and interior threat.

[QUOTE=Ainosterhaspie]

Orlando had the number one DRtg during the regular season at 101.9. Against LeBron's Cavs that shot up to 110.6 almost identical to the 110.8 the Lakers put up against the Magic. In fact the Lakers saw a bigger drop in their ORtg from the regular season in the series against the Magic than the Cavaliers did. Orlando, the best regular season defense, would only qualify as the [B][COLOR="Blue"]22nd best defense in the league if they defended during the regular season as poorly as they defended the Cavs[/COLOR][/B]. The Cavaliers offense was rolling against the league's best defense.

[/Quote]
And they'd be 22nd against the Lakers too - both the Cavs and Lakers achieved basically the same ortg vs the Magic (110.6 and 110.8)

The playoffs show where things are really at - and the 09' playoffs showed that Orlando's defense was overrated, and the Cavs offense was absurdly basic and solvable

(SVG solved it by playing lebron straight up and locking down teammates.. i.e. it's better to guard Lebron's long, slow ball-domination than ball movement created from a double-team))


[QUOTE=Ainosterhaspie]

On the other side of the ball, where the real story of the series happened, the Cavs defense went from a regular season [B][COLOR="DarkRed"]DRtg of 102.4 to 113.3[/COLOR][/B] in the Magic series. Even if the Cavs offense was better than the Lakers offense, they still lose that series because their defense couldn't handle the Magic's combination of spacing and interior threat.[/QUOTE]
The Magic's drtg increased even MORE

Those series were simply easy-scoring series - the Magic could outscore Lebron-ball but not Kobe-ball-movement

Basketball is a game of attrition - which team can wear the other down.. and teams don't get hot offensively if they're worn down defensively... Lebron-ball simply doesn't wear down the best teams, so those teams can get hot.. otoh, the opponent's ball movement wears down the Cavs defense more, which leaves less energy for the Cavs' offense (an already inferior offense)

[QUOTE=Overdrive]Great jump shooters like Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Shaq, etc?[/QUOTE]

Hakeem was a great jumpshooter...


He's obviously comparing perimeter players who constantly handled the ball.

[QUOTE=3ball]The Magic's drtg increased even MORE

[/QUOTE]
Wrong. Magic went from 101.9 to 110.6. Difference is -8.7. Cavs went from 102.4 to 113.3. Difference is -10.9. Cavs defense fell farther. Meanwhile the Lakers defense that was 104.7 during the regular season [B]improved[/B] to 100.5 against the Magic.

Magic ORtg against Cavs 113.3, against Lakers 100.5. Difference 12.8.
Magic DRtg against Cavs 110.6, against Lakers 110.8. Difference 0.2.

Huge difference in Magic's offense, almost no difference in Magic's defense. The difference in the two series is the Lakers could defend the Magic and the Cavs couldn't. It had nothing to do with LeBron not forcing double teams.

Because he is literally irrelevant without colluding multiple times with multiple allstars.

lebron has delonte west and mo williams as his most competent teammates



HURR DURR THEY PLAYED LAHBRAHN STRAIGHT UP




meanwhile pippen dragging and pulling MJ by his one hair follicle across the finish-line - 0-9 without pippen :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=red1]lebron has delonte west and mo williams as his most competent teammates



HURR DURR THEY PLAYED LAHBRAHN STRAIGHT UP




meanwhile pippen dragging and pulling MJ by his one hair follicle across the finish-line - 0-9 without pippen :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]


Do you want me to come down to Toronto to punch your teeth in??????????:whatever:

[QUOTE=AirTupac]Do you want me to come down to Toronto to punch your teeth in??????????:whatever:[/QUOTE]
Sure you're welcome to come by I'll make sure to leave one tooth of yours on every street it'll be an easter hunt to find your full set of teeth winner gets punched in the face

[QUOTE=red1]Sure you'll welcome to come by I'll make sure to leave one tooth of yours on every street it'll be an easter hunt to find your full set of teeth winner gets punched in the face[/QUOTE]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[QUOTE=Ainosterhaspie]Wrong. Magic went from 101.9 to 110.6. Difference is -8.7. Cavs went from 102.4 to 113.3. Difference is -10.9. Cavs defense fell farther. Meanwhile the Lakers defense that was 104.7 during the regular season [B]improved[/B] to 100.5 against the Magic.

Magic ORtg against Cavs 113.3, against Lakers 100.5. Difference 12.8.
Magic DRtg against Cavs 110.6, against Lakers 110.8. Difference 0.2.

Huge difference in Magic's offense, almost no difference in Magic's defense. The difference in the two series is the Lakers could defend the Magic and the Cavs couldn't. It had nothing to do with LeBron not forcing double teams.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.. all your numbers are close.. the same thing that happened to the Cavs also happened to the Lakers

The reality is that Orlando was the first of [url=https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif]many[/url] teams to exploit Lebron's game by not doubling him - teams prefer to guard Lebron's slow ball-domination and get a heavy dose of that (40 points of plodding, ball-domination), rather than guard ball movement created by a double team..

So it's too bad lebron doesn't play off-ball to put himself in dangerous spots where he must be doubled, or too bad he isn't a hot shooter that must have the ball taken out of his hands... :facepalm ... Indeed, Stan Van Gundy exploited holes in Lebron's game (no off-ball, no elite/hot shooting, low aggression as a scorer)..

The reality is that defending a ball-dominator straight-up gives the defense a rest, and a rested/comfortable defense has more capacity to get hot offensively... The low-adjustment Lebron-ball simply doesn't wear the good teams down enough to blunt their attack and win the attrition battle

Ultimately, the opponent's offense and ball movement applies more pressure than they're facing from lebron-ball, so they're worn down less and can get hot offensively easier.. This is a trend in all of Lebron's Finals losses, where the opponent gets hot and wins the last 3 games going away, most notably in the 11', 14', 15', 17' and 18' Finals.

You're allergic to Occam's rasor aren't you? The Cavs can't defend the Magic. Your conclusion is the Cavs offense is to blame. It can't be that they didn't have someone to mark Howard. Nope that's not it. It can't be that they didn't match up well with Orlando's shooters. Not that either. Bad offense was the real problem with their defense.

[QUOTE=Ainosterhaspie]You're allergic to Occam's rasor aren't you? The Cavs can't defend the Magic. Your conclusion is the Cavs offense is to blame. It can't be that they didn't have someone to mark Howard. Nope that's not it. It can't be that they didn't match up well with Orlando's shooters. Not that either. Bad offense was the real problem with their defense.[/QUOTE]
The Cavs didn't score enough to win.... :confusedshrug:..

And Dwight Howard isn't supposed to result in a better offense than Lebron

But one side of the ball effects the other.. Lebron-ball's predictability and lack of ball-movement doesn't wear down defenses, so they have more energy to get hot offensively

Part of the reason Lebron-ball doesn't wear down defenses is because he doesn't come and a double-team... SVG said their strategy against lebron WORKED - he couldn't command a double and therefore got exploited..

So it's too bad lebron doesn't play off-ball to put himself in dangerous spots where he must be doubled, or too bad he isn't a hot shooter that must have the ball taken out of his hands... ... Indeed, Stan Van Gundy exploited holes in Lebron's game (no off-ball, no elite/hot shooting, low aggression as a scorer)..

[QUOTE=Ainosterhaspie]You're allergic to Occam's rasor aren't you? The Cavs can't defend the Magic. Your conclusion is the Cavs offense is to blame. It can't be that they didn't have someone to mark Howard. Nope that's not it. It can't be that they didn't match up well with Orlando's shooters. Not that either. Bad offense was the real problem with their defense.[/QUOTE]

Cavs struggled to shoot the ball in two out of their 4 losses so yeah bad offense has something to do with them losing the series. It wasn't good offense when they scored 90 in elimination with Lebron having 25 on 40%. Apparently Cavs did enough with their 90 points and should have won, according to you.

They lost with LeBron scoring 49 on 0.71 TS%.
They lost with LeBron scoring 41 on 0.53 TS%.
They lost with LeBron scoring 44 on 0.60 TS%.

Nice cherry picking though. They were losing games with excellent offensive output and excellent production from James. Bad offense might be the story of that game, defense, or lack thereof by the Cavs was the story of the series.

[QUOTE=superduper]Because he's the GOAT[/QUOTE]
The G.L.O.A.T.

Greatest LOSER of all Time.

[QUOTE=bullettooth]The G.L.O.A.T.

Greatest LOSER of all Time.[/QUOTE]
Or Jerry West

.
[INDENT][I]"We let Lebron play 1on1 in the 09 series, we were fine giving him points/stats"

- Stan Van Gundy[/I]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601[/url][/INDENT]


Lebron can't command double-teams due to weak jumper that rarely gets hot/requires getting the ball out of his hands; and his lack of off-ball game allows opponents to defend his long-dribble style, which is preferred over double-teaming and spurring ball-movement ([url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601]Stan Van Gundy[/url] and [URL=https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif]Kerr[/url] let him dribble away - they [U]wanted[/U] the ball in his hands)..

so his weak jumper and long-dribble style prevents double-teaming and allows teammates to be guarded straight-up and locked down, like the 2009 ECF where he lost as the favorite, or the 2015 Finals where a better team effort would've beaten Curry/Klay (who are otherwise losers in the Finals, 8-10 without KD).

[QUOTE=3ball].
[INDENT][I]"We let Lebron play 1on1 in the 09 series, we were fine giving him points/stats"

- Stan Van Gundy[/I]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601[/url][/INDENT]


Lebron can't command double-teams due to weak jumper that rarely gets hot/requires getting the ball out of his hands; and his lack of off-ball game allows opponents to defend his long-dribble style, which is preferred over double-teaming and spurring ball-movement ([url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601]Stan Van Gundy[/url] and [URL=https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif]Kerr[/url] let him dribble away - they [U]wanted[/U] the ball in his hands)..

so his weak jumper and long-dribble style prevents double-teaming and allows teammates to be guarded straight-up and locked down, like the 2009 ECF where he lost as the favorite, or the 2015 Finals where a better team effort would've beaten Curry/Klay (who are otherwise losers in the Finals, 8-10 without KD).[/QUOTE]

It really is a shame a guy who is supposed to be top 10 loses in his absolute prime while winning league mvp with HCA to Dwight Howard.:roll:

[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]It really is a shame a guy who is supposed to be top 10 loses in his absolute prime while winning league mvp with HCA to Dwight Howard.:roll:[/QUOTE]

Duncan got his shit pushed in on the #1 seed stacked dynasty Spurs vs. the #8 seed lowly Grizzlies. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Gil Renard]Duncan got his shit pushed in on the #1 seed stacked dynasty Spurs vs. the #8 seed lowly Grizzlies. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Duncan didn't go to another team to join forces with players who won as the man like Lebron did with Ben Wallace, Shaq, Wade. Lebron lost to Dwight Howard when Lebron won league mvp.

[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]Duncan didn't go to another team to join forces with players who won as the man like Lebron did with Ben Wallace, Shaq, Wade. Lebron lost to Dwight Howard when Lebron won league mvp.[/QUOTE]

He didn

[QUOTE=Gil Renard]He didn

[QUOTE=Gil Renard]He didn

[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]Lebron had Ben Wallace on the squad a guy who won a title as the only allstar on the team and beat a team with 4 top 40 players all time.:eek:[/QUOTE]

TD had three HOF teammates and still choked like a bitch and lost the FMVP to Bron in 13 :roll:

[QUOTE=Gil Renard]TD had three HOF teammates and still choked like a bitch and lost the FMVP to Bron in 13 :roll:[/QUOTE]
Lebron had 12 hall of famers and lost to Carlos Arroyo in the Olympics.

[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]Lebron had 12 hall of famers and lost to Carlos Arroyo in the Olympics.[/QUOTE]

Your hero TD was the leader of that team dumbass :roll:

Because hes the GAGOATs

[QUOTE=Gil Renard]Your hero TD was the leader of that team dumbass :roll:[/QUOTE]
Lebron was the leader. Duncan isn't American so couldn't be the leader.

[QUOTE=Gil Renard]Your hero TD was the leader of that team dumbass :roll:[/QUOTE]
In b4 he wasn't born in the 50 states, like that somehow excuses him for losing too :lol

[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]Lebron was the leader. Duncan isn't American so couldn't be the leader.[/QUOTE]

So Duncan sabotaged the team? :wtf:

You

[QUOTE=Gil Renard]So Duncan sabotaged the team? :wtf:

You

[QUOTE=knicksman]duncan has won in the better competition - NBA. He doesnt need to prove himself. But lebron? The guy couldnt even get gold in a weaker league. No wonder he has to call wade and bosh.[/QUOTE]

Wade and Bosh won bronze though...so Bron had less help than Kobe, who had Gasol (gold). :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Gil Renard]Wade and Bosh won bronze though...so Bron had less help than Kobe, who had Gasol (gold). :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

So gasol > bron+ wade+ bosh? Damn and he is your GOAT?

[QUOTE=knicksman]So gasol > bron+ wade+ bosh? Damn and he is your GOAT?[/QUOTE]

So Kobe had Gasol (>Bron + Wade + Bosh) + prime Dwight + Nash + Artest and still lost in the first round :eek:

And he is your GOAT?

[QUOTE=Gil Renard]So Kobe had Gasol (>Bron + Wade + Bosh) + prime Dwight + Nash + Artest and still lost in the first round :eek:

And he is your GOAT?[/QUOTE]


bron + bosh + wade < gasol :roll:

[QUOTE=knicksman]bron + bosh + wade < gasol :roll:[/QUOTE]

Just going by what you said.

Kobe had the most stacked team in history and choked in the first round :lol