Nah, I don't think he'll win a ring.
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Nah, I don't think he'll win a ring.
Uh, did Kevin Love even make the playoffs without LeBron?
Did Bosh even win a playoff series... in the "historically weak East"?
:roll:
I'd much rather have a young Pau than a young Bosh or Love.
I can't tell if some people in here are actually being serious. Bosh played with Wade/LeBron. Of course his stats dropped? He went from being the focal point to the 3rd option. A distant one at that so not even a normal 3rd option. The T-Wolves were lottery teams. Your stats are most likely to get inflated on lotto teams rather than playoff teams/contenders.
Everyone who watched basketball back than knew Love's stats were inflated. I don't even remember it being much of a debate. Nobody who watched Kevin Love thought he was a legitimate 26/13 player. The league wasn't an offensively explosive when Bosh was with Miami either. The league was averaging 96-101 points.
I don't get why you'd think anybody's stats would get better going from being a 1st option to a 3rd option. That makes no sense.
[QUOTE=Doranku]No, my years of watching Bosh in Miami and Love in Cleveland led me to that conclusion.
Go watch a random game from Bosh 2010 or KLove 2014 and then watch one from their LeBron days and tell me that one version isn't better than the other.[/QUOTE]
If you cant tell the difference between ineffective unchecked production of no consequence and playing in a winning situation with worse numbers you shouldnt be talking ball to begin with. A good player on a shit team is gonna be free to go to his spots and do as he pleases all game.....and lose. A good player playing with other good players will no be able to do as he pleases as often....and may produce worse numbers while winning. He wont be the guy plays are run for to get the ball where he wants it. He wont take 8 shots in the 4th to bring his team back or die trying. He wont usually play the same minutes either because his team doesnt need him on the floor to play well.
Jordan, Pippen, and Kukoc dont make Ron Harper worse at basketball because he was leading the Clippers and became a role player with them. Ron put up 30/9/8 in his last full game on the clippers. Never had a game like that again. It isnt Pippen and Jordans fault. Earl Monroe was all nba first team on the Bullets and led them to the finals.....then hes on the Knicks as a role player doing 11ppg.
Not worse at basketball.
Playing different basketball.
And winning rings.
Tony Campbell was a 6ppg player on Showtime.....goes to Minnesota...puts up 23ppg. Did he learn to play basketball in 2 months? No....thats the difference between being on a champion and being the man on a team that doesnt matter. Mark Aguirre being a 25ppg player on the Mavs at 28 but a 15ppg player on the Pistons at 29 doesnt mean he forgot how to score. Neither did Adrian Dantley when he went from 30ppg 56% shooting all star to 20 a game never making the ASG again on the pistons. Nick Anderson was a 20ppg guy....but guess what? He doesnt get to be that playing with Shaq and Penny.
Antawn Jamison 25 and 22 a game on the warriors including back to back 50 point games. He doesnt do that playing for a real team in Dallas does he? You dont give the Lakers 51 when Dirk is on your team...because Dirk is the man and not you. You put up 14ppg...and you get into the playoffs for once.
Rashard Lewis is the man in Seattle...22ppg. Guess what? Hes not the man in Orlando. Dwight is the man. So he scores less and shoots worse from the field because a higher percentage of his shots are spotting up playing off the superior player. His primary value playing off a great interior player? Spacing the floor. Of course he shoots worse overall.....and has a better team for it.
Glen Rice doesnt get to have the offense run through him on the Lakers....so hes not scoring 22-27ppg anymore. Hes playing less minutes and in a 3rd guy role...Shaq and Kobe didnt "turn" him into anything. He adjusted to superior players who got to eat first. He stands back and spaces the floor like hes supposed to. And he wins a ring.
You dont go from being the man playing 39 minutes a game on a team that doesnt matter to being not just the other guy....but the OTHER other guy on a title team playing less minutes and not being the focal point and have the same production or do the same things.
How on earth is anyone still needed to be told these things in 2019?
If you dont want to give up getting the ball in your spots all the time and scoring 25ppg you stay on your shit team and be Devin Booker for 10 years....or you can:
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Kevin Love look like hed rather have the ending to his 2014 when he had 40, 43, and 19 the last 3....and lost all of them playing with Corey Brewer and Dieng?
These are grown ass men making business and personal decisions to win games at the expense of being a franchise player.
They bought their rings with a big down payment of irrelevant stats and a few installments of respect from fans who dont know anything about basketball.
Love is now in his late prime at 30 and a franchise player again on a max contract...already having had success plenty of legends dream of. Bosh has his medical issue but instead of playing his last 5 years getting steamrolled in Toronto he got to do the steam rolling and retire with the 120 million he got after getting ringed up.
Let us all "suffer" the same fate please.
I promise you....Anthony Davis WANTS to "suffer" that fate. He just spent 5 years putting up prime Hakeem numbers and demanded to leave at the cost of being the most hated man in his former city and leaving a supermax offer on the table AND giving back his 4 million dollar trade kicker trying to get his new team more talent.
That strike you as a guy likely to be upset if his numbers fall off while he wins?
Guy says keep your 250 million, **** these fans, **** this 28ppg....I demand to play with Lebron...and will give our team even more money to sign other good players....
And you think hes cares about his numbers and what you think of him more than winning?
This may be the most overt "I dont care about numbers while im losing" situation in the history of the NBA.
He just wants that game 7 lockerroom celebration. He probably watched Love and felt salty as hell. Hes out there dropping 40 and losing to the Hawks with Luke ****ing Babbit as his sidekick while love gets to score 12 points and make a great defensive stand vs Steph to win a ring because Lebron and Kyrie did the heavy lifting? And they both get paid the same? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
That Love/Bosh role was probably looking real flavorful to a lot of people at that moment. And Davis unlike them is way younger than Lebron. The Lakers are his team either now or very soon.
Hes fine. Better than fine.
Hes in about as good a position as any young star likely can be. Good team....good money...good city....great franchise. This dude is in Space jam 2.
I think he can afford to give up 3 ISOs a night and still sleep well.....
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I think he can afford to give up 3 ISOs a night and still sleep well.....[/QUOTE]
:roll:
For real though....
Hes put up 24-29ppg for 5 years in a row. Hes the man. Period. His team wins the lottery for the most hyped prospect in over a decade. Hes got an offer that would pay him 266 million dollars over the next 6 years(5 year supermax plus final year of current deal). Every club in New Orleans is offering a lifetime of free food and back room threesomes with the strippers. Hes got Gumbo and judging head contests till the day he expires on top of a quarter billion, unchecked access to the ball with whatever stats come with it, and Zion Williamson coming to town.
He told them to eat a dick.....and chose to sign with Lebrons childhood friend as his agent and get traded to play with Lebron.
And the concern....is he might lose status and production in exchange for a chance to play with Lebron and win?
What if I may ask....the ****....do you think he just showed as far as his priorities?
If Anthony Davis isnt the "I dont care about personal sacrifice...I wanna win" posterboy I dont know who is.
OP takin' repeated kicks to the cawk in this thread :roll:
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This is such a lazy post by OP :facepalm
No sh!t Bosh and Love's production went down when they went from 1st option on lottery teams to 3rd option on a contender. And both of 'em had their most efficient seasons from the field playing with LeBron. Look it up. OP conveniently stopped with their first seasons, which generally tend to be the worst because it's such a big adjustment. But Love's far and away best TS% was in 2018. Bosh's was in 2014.
Fans don't know what they want. When Bosh and Love were putting up all those numbers they were shitted on for missing the playoffs/losing in the first round.
Kevin Love was the posterboy for empty stats.
Now when they actually win the championships the focus is on their numbers declining. Those same empty numbers that didn't lead to winning.
Heres what Kevin Love thought about being the productive man on a shit team:
[QUOTE]LAS VEGAS – [B]Team USA's roster is filled with 12 NBA players who have won seven total championships and appeared in a combined 700 playoff games. Only one of those dozen players has never played in a single postseason game.
Minnesota Timberwolves All-Star forward Kevin Love.
And he's not happy about it.
Kevin Love is the only Team USA player without a single postseason appearance.[/B] In an interview with Yahoo! Sports, Love urged Minnesota's management to acquire the necessary talent to make the franchise a contender. If the Timberwolves don't start winning this season, Love isn't sure how long he'll want to be a part of Minnesota's future.
[B]"My patience is not high," Love said. "Would yours be, especially when I'm a big proponent of greatness surrounding itself with greatness? All these [Team USA] guys seem to have great players around them.
"It's tough seeing all these guys that are young and older who have all played in the playoffs. When they start talking about that, I have nothing to talk about. If I don’t make the playoffs next year I don’t know what will happen."[/B]
The Timberwolves haven't made the playoffs since 2004, a string of eight seasons. Love was hopeful the T'wolves would end the streak last season, but they lost rookie point guard Ricky Rubio to a season-ending knee injury on March 9 and never really recovered. Love admitted he was disappointed Minnesota's front office failed to get an adequate replacement for Rubio. With Rubio sidelined, the T'wolves finished the season with the Western Conference's fourth-worst record (26-40).
Love will begin his four-year, $62 million contract extension this season, but the deal allows him to opt out after three years. He sought a maximum five-year extension in negotiations before last season, but T'wolves officials balked. Another losing season could change his desire to stay with the franchise long-term.
[B]"At this point, I’m not afraid to go on the record," Love said. "Being around these [USA] guys, they know the situation I’m in and how competitive I am. I want to win. [/B]All the players on the Timberwolves feel the same way, as well. The coaching staff is awesome. They want to win and win now. Hopefully, we can make some stuff happen.
"I would say it's coming down to it for sure [next season]. It's no secret I was willing to commit to Minnesota for five years. I'm very happy with my contract. I'd love to be in Minnesota. But like anybody else, I want to win."
Love and Deron Williams are the only players on Team USA whose NBA teams didn't make the playoffs last season. Williams, however, has agreed to re-sign with the Brooklyn Nets after the Nets struck a deal to acquire All-Star guard Joe Johnson from the Atlanta Hawks. The Nets also are continuing to try to trade for Dwight Howard.
Love averaged 26 points and 13.4 rebounds for the Timberwolves last season. The Timberwolves have already made some moves this offseason to try to upgrade their roster, reaching agreement on a two-year contract with former Portland Trail Blazers guard Brandon Roy, who is trying to return to the NBA after chronic knee injuries forced him to sit out last season. They also acquired forward Chase Budinger from the Houston Rockets and came to an agreement with restricted free-agent forward Nicolas Batum on a four-year, $45 million offer sheet that the Trail Blazers have vowed to match. Forward Michael Beasley left the T'wolves to sign with the Phoenix Suns and Minnesota has shopped forward Derrick Williams, the No. 2 overall pick in the 2011 NBA draft.
[B]"If we don’t make the playoffs, I don’t know it’s going to be me or something, but our management needs to step up and make some moves,"[/B] Love said. "Chase is good for us. Brandon if he can come in relatively healthy and be back to somewhat of where he was … we can be pretty damn good, especially in the fourth quarter with how he used to be [with the Trail Blazers] with LaMarcus [Aldridge] in the pick-and-roll. If Ricky can come back healthy that would be great.
"But [B]I think our front office and ownership needs to step up and get us some pieces. We need to make some moves.[/B] We can't just stand still. We have to make this happen."
T'wolves general manager David Kahn said he has spoken to Love about the franchise's plans for the future.
"I'm sure Kevin has a sense of urgency," Kahn said. "I think the team demonstrated it could win last season before we were hit with a cascade of injuries. I thought we were on the right track and surely we would have competed for the eighth and final playoff spot if we remained healthy. Next season is shaping up to be better than last year.
"Under Kevin's leadership, I would expect him to compete for the playoffs. The one thing we can't control is injuries. I'm hopeful for a healthy year."
Love loves playing with Rubio and center Nikola Pekovic, and is hopeful Rubio returns healthy. Kahn said Minnesota doesn't have a firm timetable for when Rubio should be cleared to play. Still, Love said he will continue to push Minnesota's management to add more pieces to the roster because T'wolves fans "deserve a better product."
"I don't know if we will blow up the team again, if I'll be moved," Love said. "I don’t know.
"But something has to happen in Minnesota."[/QUOTE]
Those guys are miserable on the shit teams they come from. They may have a hard time adjusting....but they dont wanna be in those other situations. Thats how they end up on these superteams...
They dont WANT to score 30 and lose for a decade.
They may want more than they get touches wise but if they really had a problem taking the lesser role they would stay in the shit circumstances they come from. But they dont.
Is anyone surprised Brick stains prefer high volume chucking over a higher win % in a team oriented sport?
Yes. He too will suffer an NBA championsip under LePharaoh.
[QUOTE=FKAri]Yes. He too will suffer an NBA championsip under LePharaoh.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
Kblaze, for the love of God, stop typing me novels about shit that is irrelevant to the thread.
I never once mentioned what these guys WANT. I don't give a shit if they're happier getting dragged to rings while having dreadful performances throughout every playoff run. That's not what this thread is about.
Bosh and Love both become worse basketball players playing with LeBron. I don't know how anyone who actually watched basketball the past decade can say otherwise. I'm asking if the same is going to happen to Anthony Davis. That's it. I DON'T CARE WHAT WILL MAKE THEM HAPPIER.
When Pau Gasol went from being 1st option in Memphis to 2nd option in LA, his numbers literally remained identical.. except his efficiency skyrocketed. We got to see Love as a 2nd option in 2018.. not even remotely close to his 26/13 self. Bosh's numbers slowly declined each year he played with LeBron.
Bron ball is basically that basketball in Space Jam that sucks all the talent from whoever is touched by it except it only works on big men (and Larry Hughes).
Love played 28 MPG in 2018 lmao. He averaged roughly 23/12 per 36 on easily the best efficiency of his career. Oops.
OP isn't wrong.
Maybe not complete...I mean these players were allegedly "happier". But Bosh and Love were definitely worse. And before Lebron played way different.
Pau Gasol for example? Remained similar with Kobe. He wasn't really different than in Memphis save for the touches. And as shown, his numbers were the same.
[QUOTE=RRR3]Love played 28 MPG in 2018 lmao. He averaged roughly 23/12 per 36 on easily the best efficiency of his career. Oops.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't that the year when he was being benched in multiple 4th quarters for his poor play?
[QUOTE=RRR3]Love played 28 MPG in 2018 lmao. He averaged roughly 23/12 per 36 on easily the best efficiency of his career. Oops.[/QUOTE]
ouch
and that was his role as a 2nd option, not a 1st like his similar productivity in Minny.
imagine that
[QUOTE=Doranku]Wasn't that the year when he was being benched in multiple 4th quarters for his poor play?[/QUOTE]
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Also didn
I thought Love's numbers were suppose to explode last season after being unchained from spot up shooting
Worst season of his career, yikes
Kevin Love average FGA distance in 2014: 14.3
Kevin Love average FGA distances with LeBron: 14.8, 15.2, 15.2, 14.9
Kevin Love average FGA distance last year (plague by injuries, only 22 games): 16.7
lEbrOn mAdE hIm a SpOt uP shOoTeR
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]OP isn't wrong.
Maybe not complete...I mean these players were allegedly "happier". But Bosh and Love were definitely worse. And before Lebron played way different.
Pau Gasol for example? Remained similar with Kobe. He wasn't really different than in Memphis save for the touches. And as shown, his numbers were the same.[/QUOTE]
So there was also a Wade and Kyrie level guard playing alongside Kobe and Pau, huh? I must have just not noticed seeing him during this Lakers era. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Smoke117]So there was also a Wade and Kyrie level guard playing alongside Kobe and Pau, huh? I must have just not noticed seeing him during this Lakers era. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
No, only Lebron needs to stack the deck with two hall of famers to win.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]So there was also a Wade and Kyrie level guard playing alongside Kobe and Pau, huh? I must have just not noticed seeing him during this Lakers era. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Yeah it’s funny how Pau’s numbers collapsed when he got reduced to 3rd option but they don’t talk about that.
bRaN bAlL doe (as if Kobe was some unselfish teammate :yaohappy: )
[QUOTE=Smoke117]So there was also a Wade and Kyrie level guard playing alongside Kobe and Pau, huh? I must have just not noticed seeing him during this Lakers era. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
lol... if the lakers had a wade or kyrie in that late 00's run they wouldve won 4 chips instead of 2.
its about role dummy. wade or kyrie wouldnt distract from pau's low block niche.
lebron has never been able to play with a low poast guy because his game is all PnR spam & iso mismatch.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]
Pau Gasol for example? Remained similar with Kobe. He wasn't really different than in Memphis save for the touches. And as shown, his numbers were the same.[/QUOTE]
Pau Gasol was the 2nd option though, not playing 3rd fiddle to 2 alpha scorers. Bad comparison.
[QUOTE=tpols]lol... if the lakers had a wade or kyrie in that late 00's run they wouldve won 4 chips instead of 2.
its about role dummy. wade or kyrie wouldnt distract from pau's low block niche.
lebron has never been able to play with a low poast guy because his game is all PnR spam & iso mismatch.[/QUOTE]
If you have LeBron and Wade or LeBron and Kyrie you don't want a post player clogging up the paint. You're not going to play through that guy in the post. That's just common sense. Learn basketball already. I'm sick and tired of trying to explain it to you. This is all beside the point that Paul Gasol was a better player in the low block anyway. He was much more of a traditional post player than Bosh and Love were.
[QUOTE=Doranku]Kblaze, for the love of God, stop typing me novels about shit that is irrelevant to the thread.
I never once mentioned what these guys WANT. I don't give a shit if they're happier getting dragged to rings while having dreadful performances throughout every playoff run. That's not what this thread is about.
Bosh and Love both become worse basketball players playing with LeBron. I don't know how anyone who actually watched basketball the past decade can say otherwise. I'm asking if the same is going to happen to Anthony Davis. That's it. I DON'T CARE WHAT WILL MAKE THEM HAPPIER.
When Pau Gasol went from being 1st option in Memphis to 2nd option in LA, his numbers literally remained identical.. except his efficiency skyrocketed. We got to see Love as a 2nd option in 2018.. not even remotely close to his 26/13 self. Bosh's numbers slowly declined each year he played with LeBron.
Bron ball is basically that basketball in Space Jam that sucks all the talent from whoever is touched by it except it only works on big men (and Larry Hughes).[/QUOTE]
If you’re going to make a topic suggesting that something bad happened to people who signed up to be third options to win and became third options and won you are going to hear me explain why it’s ridiculous.
This is nothing but an absolutely brutal completely thoughtless agenda topic made by somebody who isn’t even trying to think this through.
Worse numbers as a third option than a first option? Well Jesus ****ing Christ I think you’re on to something. Somebody needs to send this out for extensive review.....
That somebody who had unchecked control of his offense will begin to see his attacking skills atrophy while playing behind two first ballot Hall of Fame creators who don’t need him to attack is equally News worthy.
You need to log off and call a press conference. These observations can’t just be for us few here. Former franchise players who play with all time elite attackers no longer have to jab step four times and create their own offense while inept teammates watch and as a result they get worse at it but improve at the things they are now being asked to do like Create good spacing and be reliable on a kick out?
And these players in this new situation instead of winning about 35 games win between 50 and 66 games and play in the finals every single season and go home ringed up with hundreds of millions of dollars all of their missions having been achieved........while People on the Internet who know absolutely nothing about basketball say they suck because they sacrifice to fit into a team dynamic instead of disrupting it and losing as they have been doing their entire careers previously??
I mean....this is ground breaking shit.
Reduced role with better teammates may cost you numbers....
Winning takes sacrifice.....
Fans are ****ing stupid....
We have made real progress here today. I never realized any of those things before just now.
None of any of this discussion matters anyway. Let's say Anthony Davis leads the lakers in ppg...then idiot obsessive clowns like Doranko, 3ball, egokiller, tpols etc will just find some way to spin that into something negative about LeBron. It's just a never ending shit storm of fukkery with these losers.
Regardless of who went first, second or third....
Love and Bosh were underutilized. Even as third options. I think everyone can agree there.
The dropoff Love had was inconceivable.
Still can't believe Kyrie couldn't get out the second round after being traded to a #1 seed team
In the same historically weak East where anybody can make 8 Finals in a row
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]
Love and Bosh were underutilized. Even as third options.[/quote]
Scoring in the high teens on good efficiency is pretty much the best you can expect from a #3 option. Which is what Bosh and Love were doing.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Scoring in the high teens on good efficiency is pretty much the best you can expect from a #3 option. Which is what Bosh and Love were doing.[/QUOTE]
You have to factor in Love’s playing time got cut too. He averaged roughly 22/13 per 36 as a third option in 2017.
[QUOTE=Indian guy]Scoring in the high teens on good efficiency is pretty much the best you can expect from a #3 option. Which is what Bosh and Love were doing.[/QUOTE]
Love was a 14-15ppg scorer in the playoffs. And shooting like 40% from the field. ~39% his last playoff run with Lebron.
Bosh had similar numbers, but on better efficiency.
Love could have been better though. He was a greater talent than Bosh imo.
[QUOTE=RRR3]You have to factor in Love’s playing time got cut too. He averaged roughly 22/13 per 36 as a third option in 2017.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure Love was averaging 20 in 2017, too, before he got hurt. And I'm right. [url]https://www.nba.com/article/2017/02/14/cavaliers-kevin-love-out-6-weeks-arthroscopic-surgery-left-knee[/url]
He was out 6 weeks for arthroscopic surgery on his left knee on February 14th. He was averaging 20.0ppg 11.1rpg on the season. Not surprising that he ended up at 19.0ppg working his way back and getting ready for the playoffs. He basically averaged 20ppg for 2/3rds of the season.
Now it’s LeBron’s fault Love chokes in the playoffs. Can’t make this shit up.
No Kyrie in 2018 either.
Just saying fellas :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Love was a 14-15ppg scorer in the playoffs. And shooting like 40% from the field. ~39% his last playoff run with Lebron.
Bosh averaged basically the same numbers, but on better efficiency.
Love could have been better. He was a better talent than Bosh imo.[/QUOTE]
Playoff ball is more concentrated to your best scorers. The inferior players is going to get even more marginalized when the stakes rise. Cleveland posted GOAT ORTGs in the playoffs in 2016 and 2017. Don't think how they were using Love was an issue. And if Love was indeed capable of doing more, then the 2018 playoffs made it pretty clear he's simply not 2nd option material against playoff defense. And the 2019 season made it even more obvious that his struggles had nothing to do with LeBron.
Poor little Kuniva getting spit roasted yet again :oldlol: