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[QUOTE=Axe;13938791]I'm if not mistaken, this guy has played a total of 49 finals games already, winning only 18 of them.[/QUOTE]
This. Think about it - he's lost 31 out of a max 36 losses in the finals. 9 series x 4 losses per = 36. That record will probably stand, along with his turnovers.
[QUOTE=Shaquille O'Neal;13938860]This. Think about it - he's lost 31 out of a max 36 losses in the finals. 9 series x 4 losses per = 36. That record will probably stand, along with his turnovers.[/QUOTE]
LeBron ball is good for crushing weak eastern conference teams but doesn’t hold up against top level competition.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;13938865]LeBron ball is good for crushing weak eastern conference teams but doesn’t hold up against top level competition.[/QUOTE]
Idk, it did beat 3 MVP's, a 5x champ, and a 73 win team
Let me know when a warriors team with injured Steph, no Draymond, Iguodala, and Bogut win 73 games :lol
No matter how you slice it, the Cavs didn’t beat a 73 win team. The only people who say that are pathetic trolls and individuals suffering from severe autism.
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjHZKRgiZXYmVVbq/giphy.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Shaquille O'Neal;13938856]Wilt is top 6 in scoring and #1 all time in rebounds. Stockton still #1 all time in assists and steals. Others have made these "top" categories.[/QUOTE]
Chamberlain, Malone, Malone and KAJ are all top 10 in both Points and Rebounds. These two skills do not work against each other. You dont give up points by grabbing rebounds. Being top ten in both is certainly an impressive feat of longevity and skill, but it is clearly not as difficult as being a top ten points/assists guy since that's only been achieved by one guy.
Same story with assists. Stockton, Kidd, Paul and Payton are top ten in both. This makes sense since steals and assists both tend to be led by perimeter players, and again while impressive, it isn't uncommon.
LeBron though is the only player top 10 in both points and assists, and has a strong chance to finish top 3 in both. He'll almost certainly finish top 5 in both. Getting an assist costs a chance to add to points total and vice versa. It's much easier to finish at the top of one category by doing less in the other. That James has struck a balance in both, not just for a handful of seasons, but over the course of a lengthy, healthy career which has allowed him to match the career totals of specialists in both areas is unprecedented. It's not just unprecedented. No one else is remotely close to matching that. Closest is Robertson top 15 in both (#14 points, #6 steals).
It doesn't necessarily make him the GOAT, but its absurd to pretend it's not a crazy impressive accomplishment.
[QUOTE=Uncle Drew;13938804]40k points, 10k assists, 10k rebounds. No one, ever, will do that. Except for one LeBron James.[/QUOTE]
Forgot about this, if he reaches this mark, truly the greatest accomplishment in any sport history.
[QUOTE=Keno;13938925]Forgot about this, if he reaches this mark, truly the greatest accomplishment in any sport history.[/QUOTE]
Still a long way off from that point threshold. He'll need to play in the ball park of 250-300 more games (i.e. 3-4 more seasons minimum) and that's assuming his average points per game over those games stays at or above 20. That gives him time to be more in the neighborhood of 40k/12k/12k. He'll most likely hit 10k/10k next season.
Most cowardly collusions with prime level players while also in MVP form
Most historically embarrassing finals losses
Most teammates thrown under the bus
Why is everyone so hurt that LeBron has like 100 unbreakable records :oldlol:
Just accept goatness and move on
[QUOTE=And1AllDay;13939004]Why is everyone so hurt that LeBron has like 100 unbreakable records :oldlol:
Just accept goatness and move on[/QUOTE]
Don't even need to accept GOATness. How about accepting greatness. Almost no one has Wilt as GOAT and that dude has several untouchable records that most marvel at. No one thinks Stockton is anywhere close to GOAT, but he has an assist record that probably won't ever be touched. It's weird that people have to dismiss everything LeBron does.
You don't think he's GOAT, that's fine. There are certainly other guys who have a legit case over him. But the compulsive need to pretend like the stuff he's done isn't mindboggling is pathetic. Seriously, how can any basketball fan not be in awe of the things he's done. There's no dude in the top 20 who doesn't deserve the respect of anyone who actually likes the game. But some people can't help themselves...
[QUOTE=Shaquille O'Neal;13938860]This. Think about it - he's lost 31 out of a max 36 losses in the finals. 9 series x 4 losses per = 36. That record will probably stand, along with his turnovers.[/QUOTE]
How come you say 36 is the max? I mean where does it come from? Also, out of all those finals games, i guess coming from the eastern conference really did help him a lot. Now let us see if he and his team today will be able to overpower anyone in the western conference.
9 finals times 4 losses per finals =36 losses. Can't lose more than four times per finals. He lost the max possible while still winning a finals in 2013 and 2016. Could have lost two more, but not three to still win in 2012.
Oh i see. So let's say if he has been to the finals 9 times already and NEVER won a single game in them, he would have been 0-36 instead of 18-31 or something like that.
[QUOTE=superduper;13938939]Most cowardly collusions with prime level players while also in MVP form
Most historically embarrassing finals losses
Most teammates thrown under the bus[/QUOTE]
off the top of my head:
Durant
West
Kobe
next?
[QUOTE=Axe;13939073]Oh i see. So let's say if he has been to the finals 9 times already and NEVER won a single game in them, he would have been 0-36 instead of 18-31 or something like that.[/QUOTE]
Most don't even make 9 finals. Let's start with that. If you can't even appear 9 finals don't speak on LeBrons name.
[QUOTE=SpaceJam2;13939388]Most don't even make 9 finals. Let's start with that. If you can't even appear 9 finals don't speak on LeBrons name.[/QUOTE]
I guess that's overrated, since there are players that haven't been to at least 5 nba finals and yet, they got inducted into the HOF. It's a big feat for him though, because without his leadership, there wouldn't have been a rivalry between cleveland and golden state. Too bad he had to lose 6 times there though.
[QUOTE=Axe;13939420]I guess that's overrated, since there are players that haven't been to at least 5 nba finals and yet, they got inducted into the HOF. It's a big feat for him though, because without his leadership, there wouldn't have been a rivalry between cleveland and golden state. Too bad he had to lose 6 times there though.[/QUOTE]
no one is winning in brons place except 2011
and if you switch it, no one can win in 2013 or 2012 or 2016 like bran========D
[QUOTE=And1AllDay;13939470]no one is winning in brons place except 2011
and if you switch it, no one can win in 2013 or 2012 or 2016 like bran========D[/QUOTE]
Well how about this year? I'm not going to like it if he ever did. 🙀
[b]- Scoring (PPG)
- efficiency rating (PER)
- winning contribution (WS/48)
- box score stats (BPM)[/b]
[size=3]^^^ MJ is #1 in all
so MJ owns the stats, modern era winning (6 "best player" rings), and [URL=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477993-WE-ARE-WITNESS-34-13-12-on-67-(-22)&p=13939434&viewfull=1#post13939434]clutch[/URL][/size]
[QUOTE=3ball;13939485][b]- Scoring (PPG)
- efficiency rating (PER)
- winning contribution (WS/48)
- box score stats (BPM)[/b]
[size=3]^^^ MJ is #1 in all
so MJ owns the stats, modern era winning (6 "best player" rings), and clutch (see previous post)[/size][/QUOTE]
Scoring: 6911 (FIRST PLACE)
Defense: 423 steals (FIRST PLACE)
Clutch: 10 game winners (FIRST PLACE)
Pressure: 34.9 highest elim game ppg (FIRST PLACE)
Competition: EACH of LeBron's Finals opponents had a better net efficiency THAN THE BEST TEAM MJ EVER FACED
Teammates: Kyrie cancer, Pippen = 55 wins and defensive anchor
Coach: Never had a HOF coach
We stay winning
Seriously, should there be divisiveness whether you would prefer who? I mean come on. They played in different eras. Let's just appreciate the greatness they showed in the league.
[QUOTE=SpaceJam2;13939488]Scoring: 6911 (FIRST PLACE)
Defense: 423 steals (FIRST PLACE)
Clutch: 10 game winners (FIRST PLACE)
Pressure: 34.9 highest elim game ppg (FIRST PLACE)
Competition: EACH of LeBron's Finals opponents had a better net efficiency THAN THE BEST TEAM MJ EVER FACED
Teammates: Kyrie cancer, Pippen = 55 wins and defensive anchor
Coach: Never had a HOF coach
We stay winning[/QUOTE]
[size=3]How can the greatest player ever be a perennial underdog in the championship level, aka not yield great teams?
It's impossible... :facepalm:
here's a real list of achievement: [/size]
- #1 all-time championship frequency since the 3-point line began (6 in 15 yrs.. 40.0%)
- only player with 4+ fmvp (he has 6)
- only player at 30/5/5 for regular season... And playoffs... and Finals
- all-time leader in PPG, including a 4-point margin in playoffs
- 10 scoring titles (record)
- #1 in PPG, PER, BPM, WS/48
- only HOF that was never outscored by a teammate in a playoff series (MJ led team by average margin of 15.4 ppg over 2nd option)
- Best winning stats ever - 33.7 ppg and 6.6 apg in 91-93' PO (27.2 and 7.2 for lebron in 12/13/16' PO)
- Best losing stats ever - 44 ppg against champion 86' celtics and their #1 defense
The one that leads both team in every category (PTS, rebound, assist, steal, block etc) that one is kinda hard, also the all time playoff points.
It's also intellectually dishonest to bring up the all time playoff scoring totals, Two main reasons for that - back in the day there was far fewer rounds and fewer games per round.
Secondly, it rewards the player who allows a series to go 7 games.
Let's say player A scored 40 PPG and sweeps his opponent in 4. Player A has totaled 160 playoff points.
Player B scores 32 PPG, but in 7 games. Player B has totaled 194 playoff points. Based on those numbers and nothing else, you really going to say player B is better? Of course not.
Not only were there fewer series' but the 1st round was best of 5 until what - like 2005? Two more stat padding possible games, and the "leader" of the total often took 7 games in early rounds to knock out his opponent.
[QUOTE=Gougou;13939502]The one that leads both team in every category (PTS, rebound, assist, steal, block etc) that one is kinda hard, also the all time playoff points.[/QUOTE]
The latter is hard, but relies on - A) The current combination of most rounds (4) to win a chip, and the current standard of "best of 7" in each of those 4 rounds.
Look at this 1970 NBA playoff reference.
[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1970.html[/url]
No first round at all. Max games you could play = 21.
Compare that to the 73-9 / 15-9 2016 Warriors. Max games they could play = 28.
Factor in playing in a weak conference (talking about LBJ here) for 15 years, you get a ton of deep playoff runs. Plus he's a great player, so yeah, this playoff total will be tough to beat. But playoff PPG is far more important due to the points I mentioned earlier.
[QUOTE=Shaquille O'Neal;13939503]It's also intellectually dishonest to bring up the all time playoff scoring totals, Two main reasons for that - back in the day there was far fewer rounds and fewer games per round.
Secondly, it rewards the player who allows a series to go 7 games.
Let's say player A scored 40 PPG and sweeps his opponent in 4. Player A has totaled 160 playoff points.
Player B scores 32 PPG, but in 7 games. Player B has totaled 194 playoff points. Based on those numbers and nothing else, you really going to say player B is better? Of course not.
Not only were there fewer series' but the 1st round was best of 5 until what - like 2005? Two more stat padding possible games, and the "leader" of the total often took 7 games in early rounds to knock out his opponent.[/QUOTE]
They both had 13 playoff runs
The thing is...
MJ has three 1st round defeats
LBJ has zero
MJ only made 6 Finals
LBJ made 9
Recipe for best scorer? 9 Finals + 0 1st round exits
GOOD LUCK TO ALL
[QUOTE=Shaquille O'Neal;13939503]It's also intellectually dishonest to bring up the all time playoff scoring totals, Two main reasons for that - back in the day there was far fewer rounds and fewer games per round.
Secondly, it rewards the player who allows a series to go 7 games.[/QUOTE]
All records are contextual. For example Bill Russell wouldn't have gotten 11 rings if he played in a league with 30 teams and free agency.
[QUOTE=BigTicket;13939552]All records are contextual. For example Bill Russell wouldn't have gotten 11 rings if he played in a league with 30 teams and free agency.[/QUOTE]
Ofc the past was a very different era compared to today.
[QUOTE=SpaceJam2;13939513]They both had 13 playoff runs
The thing is...
MJ has three 1st round defeats
LBJ has zero
MJ only made 6 Finals
LBJ made 9
Recipe for best scorer? 9 Finals + 0 1st round exits
GOOD LUCK TO ALL[/QUOTE]
Normally I wouldn't respond to someone who's been banned, but you'll be back in a week anyway ( or one of your alts will take the baton in your 'absence').
Lebron played 62 first round games to MJ's 46. Those extra 16 games on their own equate to over 450 points give or take. If MJ had access to 16 more first round games at his averages that's over 500 points give or take. He got swept in the first round twice, but he also swept the first round six times which is 18 games ( 3 game sweeps). If he was playing in the best of 7 first round era, six sweeps would equate to 24 games( 4 game sweeps). That's 6 extra games he didn't have access to at over 30ppg. Do the math.
So under equal conditions MJ would score more, which is why we track per game averages and not just totals that can always be used without context. Just the 94 playoffs he missed was probably worth 600 points if he's averaging 30+( which he was doing in his sleep in the early 90s) and playing the likely 20 games or so he'd have needed to win a title or even just get to the finals. What's the TLDR version? Having access to the same first round best of 7 structure ( both for series he lost and won) and ONE playoff run missed in 94 puts at least 1000 points on MJ's totals, which puts him right in the ballpark of Lebrons.......without the 3 extra finals.
Most of these are longevity records and given continuing advancement in health sciences, they will all be broken at some point, but likely in the far future.
The only one that has a shot at being overtaken at any point in the near future is the PER in the finals.
[QUOTE=Phoenix;13939567]Normally I wouldn't respond to someone who's been banned, but you'll be back in a week anyway ( or one of your alts will take the baton in your 'absence').
Lebron played 62 first round games to MJ's 46. Those extra 16 games on their own equate to over 450 points give or take. If MJ had access to 16 more first round games at his averages that's over 500 points give or take. He got swept in the first round twice, but he also swept the first round six times which is 18 games ( 3 game sweeps). If he was playing in the best of 7 first round era, six sweeps would equate to 24 games( 4 game sweeps). That's 6 extra games he didn't have access to at over 30ppg. Do the math.
So under equal conditions MJ would score more, which is why we track per game averages and not just totals that can always be used without context. Just the 94 playoffs he missed was probably worth 600 points if he's averaging 30+( which he was doing in his sleep in the early 90s) and playing the likely 20 games or so he'd have needed to win a title or even just get to the finals. What's the TLDR version? Having access to the same first round best of 7 structure ( both for series he lost and won) and ONE playoff run missed in 94 puts at least 1000 points on MJ's totals, which puts him right in the ballpark of Lebrons.......without the 3 extra finals.[/QUOTE]
Stop using logic with Bran stans. They are some of the dumbest people on the planet, they just don't get it.
[QUOTE=bullettooth;13939662]Stop using logic with Bran stans. They are some of the dumbest people on the planet, they just don't get it.[/QUOTE]
Toronto a country doe :lol
I voted 6911.
[QUOTE=MrFonzworth;13939705]I voted 6911.[/QUOTE]
Good vote. I think I will too.
.
- most Finals losses in modern era, aka 3-pointer basketball
- most turnovers ever
- record losses in multiple Finals
- 2 losses with 60-win 1 seeds
- most ball-dominanation ever (record time of possession)
- allowed his defensive assignment 4 FMVPs
- 2 Finals won by luck/asterisk because teammate hit a saving shot (that wasn't assisted by lebron)
- only top 10 candidate that was a net negative in a Finals win (team lost with him on floor in 2013)
Add this to one of LeBron's most unbreakable records:
[U][B]Most Player of the Month Awards[/B][/U]
LeBron James – 40
Michael Jordan – 16
Kobe Bryant – 16*
Kevin Durant — 14
Shaquille O’Neal – 12
Kevin Garnett - 9
James Harden - 9
Giannis Antetokounmpo - 8
And he's still going to get more of these.
LeBron’s enormous lead is still impressive even when you consider that the NBA didn’t split this up by conference until 2001 (if they awarded it by conference in the 80's and 90's Jordan still would not have reached 40).
[I][SIZE=2]*Some places list Kobe with 17 but he in fact only has 16 - the one from April 2007 that is credited to him actually went to Carmelo Anthony[/SIZE][/I]
[QUOTE=Rico2016;14013089]Good vote. I think I will too.[/QUOTE]
Way to go digging a 3 month old thread suckah :lol
[QUOTE=light;14013243]Add this to one of LeBron's most unbreakable records:
[U][B]Most Player of the Month Awards[/B][/U]
LeBron James – 40
Michael Jordan – 16
Kobe Bryant – 16*
Kevin Durant — 14
Shaquille O’Neal – 12
Kevin Garnett - 9
James Harden - 9
Giannis Antetokounmpo - 8
And he's still going to get more of these.
LeBron’s enormous lead is still impressive even when you consider that the NBA didn’t split this up by conference until 2001 (if they awarded it by conference in the 80's and 90's Jordan still would not have reached 40).
[I][SIZE=2]*Some places list Kobe with 17 but he in fact only has 16 - the one from April 2007 that is credited to him actually went to Carmelo Anthony[/SIZE][/I][/QUOTE]
Unbreakable after unbreakable. LeLegacy
LeBron
LeGend
LeGacy
What about winning a game 7 of the NBA Finals with all Game 7 Virigns:
[img]https://i.postimg.cc/76wmK2Vf/LeBron_and_some_game_7_rookies.png[/img]