Giannis has the potential to be a top 5 player of all-time.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;14032014]That is another measuring stick. If it is two by 25, it is only KAJ, LeBron, Giannis.

3 MVP's--over whatever time frame--is another milestone. Other than Moses, every player with 3+ MVP's is consensus top 10 all-time. The other people are KAJ, LeBron, Russell, Jordan, Wilt, Bird, and Magic.[/QUOTE]

Yea, though those guys have notable playoffs and finals performances, some of the best of all time. If Giannis can't get to the finals, let alone win one, despite having the best record in basketball multiple times, then history won't favor him as much. It's all speculation, though. It's still early in his career.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14032081]Yea, though those guys have notable playoffs and finals performances, some of the best of all time. If Giannis can't get to the finals, let alone win one, despite having the best record in basketball multiple times, then history won't favor him as much. It's all speculation, though. It's still early in his career.[/QUOTE]

roundball likes to tally awards and stats... he doesn't have the ability to actually analyze player's games in a vacuum.

I may be a little harsh on giannis, but a lot of people have echoed the same sentiments. even in this thread.

Sometimes, you need a little sprinkle of hate to balance out extreme overreactions like the title of this thread.

Tpols can't even keep his own statements straight. That is what makes you comedy gold--you will say something completely opposite of what you said 10 minutes earlier. Tpols is purely emotionally driven. Saying Giannis sucks, saying Ewing>LeBron are laughable statements that this guy actually thinks is "analysis." :lol

Any fool can make claims, as you prove routinely. I marshal facts to support my claims--which you and your ilk are incapable of doing.

[QUOTE]Yea, though those guys have notable playoffs and finals performances, some of the best of all time. If Giannis can't get to the finals, let alone win one, despite having the best record in basketball multiple times, then history won't favor him as much[/QUOTE]

He has played in 34 playoff games and he wasn't even a superstar for several of them. Let's wait and see. MJ and LeBron needed 7 years to make the finals themselves.

[IMG]https://s3.amazonaws.com/gurufocus_userupload/02May2017162719.jpg[/IMG]

unless it's apples to apples...

mate.

I forgot to mention you made the same statement in another thread with your "bawkish" account. :lol

That is the beauty of presenting information, not just stats, but evidence of GM, coach, player opinions at the time and reporting at the time: people can decide for themselves. Outside of the army of Jordan stans and their echo chamber, it is obvious what conclusions people are reaching.

It is revealing that Pippen's stock has went [I]up[/I] after the decade long MJ stan crusade to diminish him, which you are a core member of on ISH. There is a reason for that: people can see right through it (like you saying 21/3 APG is GOAT offense; saying 20/6 APG is trash offense).

I only have one account mate.

kblaze could probably verify that through IP. I dont need alts for clout.

One poast will have you guys swarming.

btw why are you talking about pippen lmao... in this thread?

you have a pathological obsession with that man. Madonna level. While my posts cover a wide diversity of subject matter.

Because I'm a fan of basketball.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;14032148]I forgot to mention you made the same statement in another thread with your "bawkish" account. :lol

That is the beauty of presenting information, not just stats, but evidence of GM, coach, player opinions at the time and reporting at the time: people can decide for themselves. Outside of the army of Jordan stans and their echo chamber, it is obvious what conclusions people are reaching.

It is revealing that Pippen's stock has went [I]up[/I] after the decade long MJ stan crusade to diminish him, which you are a core member of on ISH. There is a reason for that: people can see right through it (like you saying 21/3 APG is GOAT offense; saying 20/6 APG is trash offense).[/QUOTE]

:lol

#Caught

No way, he doesn't have the ball skills to be a top 5 GOAT.

[QUOTE]One poast will have you guys swarming.[/QUOTE]

I can't speak to others but to me you are a very entertaining poster--but not for the reasons your high self-regard tells you. You have no criteria, no thought process. Just ad hoc emotions driving your "analysis."

[QUOTE]#Caught[/QUOTE]

They say the same stuff almost word for word on different accounts. :lol

[QUOTE=tpols;14032168]btw why are you talking about pippen lmao... in this thread?

you have a pathological obsession with that man. Madonna level. While my posts cover a wide diversity of subject matter.

Because I'm a fan of basketball.[/QUOTE]
Almost all your posts are either directly or indirectly related to your agenda that Kobe>LeBron. Pot calling the kettle black.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14032274]Almost all your posts are either directly or indirectly related to your agenda that Kobe>LeBron. Pot calling the kettle black.[/QUOTE]

Plus it was simply the most salient example of tpols' "approach" backfiring. They put forward dishonest, bad faith arguments and then wonder why they are [I]losing[/I] the battle despite having an online army in every corner of the internet pushing the same each day (with only pockets of resistance, like me and a few others on ISH). People see right through it.

You can't be taken seriously when you say Ewing>LeBron, Giannis isn't good, hype 21 PPG while dissing 20 PPG, say Miller>actual superstars, say Pippen didn't play guard on the Dream Team, say playoff efficiency matters only when convenient to the agenda you referenced, etc.

[QUOTE=tpols;14032087]roundball likes to tally awards and stats... he doesn't have the ability to actually analyze player's games in a vacuum.

I may be a little harsh on giannis, but a lot of people have echoed the same sentiments. even in this thread.

Sometimes, you need a little sprinkle of hate to balance out extreme overreactions like the title of this thread.[/QUOTE]
Are you saying it was OP's fault that he made this thread?

At this point in his career, he has a chance IMO, BUT he will need to have a "go to move or shot" otherwise like Magic and Russell, I would have him in or near the top 10 but not in the top 5... They can carry a team but you can't count on them to deliver in crunch time..

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;14032136]Tpols can't even keep his own statements straight. That is what makes you comedy gold--you will say something completely opposite of what you said 10 minutes earlier. Tpols is purely emotionally driven. Saying Giannis sucks, saying Ewing>LeBron are laughable statements that this guy actually thinks is "analysis." :lol

Any fool can make claims, as you prove routinely. I marshal facts to support my claims--which you and your ilk are incapable of doing.



He has played in 34 playoff games and he wasn't even a superstar for several of them. Let's wait and see. MJ and LeBron needed 7 years to make the finals themselves.[/QUOTE]

Yea but look at MJ and LeBron's playoff performances. They were epic. Giannis has been excellent, but he hasn't transcended anything by leaps and bounds the way they did.

Maybe his ceiling. But very few people reach their ceilings.

The ceiling is the roof...

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14032487]Yea but look at MJ and LeBron's playoff performances. They were epic. Giannis has been excellent, but he hasn't transcended anything by leaps and bounds the way they did.[/QUOTE]

Yeah he needs to back it up in the playoffs. I think he will. If he doesn't, he will wind up a better version of David Robinson legacy wise (basically Robinson with more MVP's). If he becomes a 3+ MVP player that is good company since they put up many great playoff runs. It would be highly unlikely for a player of that caliber to fail to do so over a large sample size.

Get rid of defensive 3 seconds and he might disappear into the ether.

Sure he has, but he didn't even start his journey. There is no chance anybody with less than 3 rings gets in top 5 and Giannis have 0 right now.

Giannis is pretty much a consistent jumpshot away from not being able to do anything with him. Where putting up a wall between him and the rim like Toronto did in 2019 won't matter much. Saying he has top 5 potential is pretty vacuous because a number of players had/have that kind of potential. Like all past and current stars playoff success will validate both his individual greatness as well as his legacy.

[QUOTE=BigShotBob;14032604]Get rid of defensive 3 seconds and he might disappear into the ether.[/QUOTE]

that's such a bullshit rule anyway... what's the logic behind it?

[QUOTE=Sulico;14032620]Sure he has, but he didn't even start his journey. There is no chance anybody with less than 3 rings gets in top 5 and Giannis have 0 right now.[/QUOTE]
So kawhi's not part of that equation.

[QUOTE]Saying he has top 5 potential is pretty vacuous because a number of players had/have that kind of potential. [/QUOTE]

I think it comes up because he has the best shot of being this generation's GOAT candidate. Every era has had at least one, if not two. Russell for the 50's, Russell/Wilt for the 50's/60's, Kareem for the 70's/80's, Bird & Magic for the 80's, Jordan for the 90's/80's, LeBron for the 00's and 10's. So who will it be for the 20's? Giannis seems the best bet with Luka, Zion other contenders. Giannis is already on his way to do it; those guys are not (for obvious reasons). Some may argue for Davis or Embiid but I doubt it.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;14032673]I think it comes up because he has the best shot of being this generation's GOAT candidate. Every era has had at least one, if not two. Russell for the 50's, Russell/Wilt for the 50's/60's, Kareem for the 70's/80's, Bird & Magic for the 80's, Jordan for the 90's/80's, LeBron for the 00's and 10's. So who will it be for the 20's? Giannis seems the best bet with Luka, Zion other contenders. Giannis is already on his way to do it; those guys are not (for obvious reasons). [B]Some may argue for Davis or Embiid but I doubt it.[/B][/QUOTE]

As do I. AD has that level of talent but he seems best suited as a strong 1a or #2. If you swapped out Giannis with him on the Bucks I don't think they're nearly as good, because based on available evidence I don't think he's that level of floor-raiser. Embid is incredibly talented but seems lazy and I have to wonder if he's close to capped out. Plus health looks to be an ever-present concern.

Yeah and AD has already played 8 seasons. It is hard to see him making a run for top 5 AT out the blue. I think he has a shot to finish in the top 30, though.

Embiid's potential is almost irrelevant for the reasons you mentioned. You can't be top 5 AT if you only play 50 games a year. He eventually will have some healthy seasons and maybe he can have a monster run in one or two of those years like Hakeem or Dirk did, but to be really high all-time you need to have been great for a long time. He has been in the NBA for 6 seasons already and has only 202 games played.

Embid just doesn't seem to have the drive to take that leap. On talent alone he can drop 25/12. That's not his issue. I question the commitment to year over year improvement at a time in his career ( as far as age) where he should still be ascending. If he puts in even an average amount of effort he's a top ten guy for the next several years, but there's clearly potential for more.

We'll see....but if I were a betting man that's not where I'd put my money.

Isn't that essentially what Jimmy Buckets said about him after playing with him?

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;14032728]Isn't that essentially what Jimmy Buckets said about him after playing with him?[/QUOTE]

Not sure, but it just seems very clear observing him from a distance.

I disagree with this. Don't see his peak even being better than KG's. Of course that is different than greatness but the latter requires championships. I believe that as long as Kawhi is healthy, while load managing, and the Clippers continue putting assets around him, they will be Milwaukee's kryptonite. I wouldn't be so quick to ignore Philadelphia either with Embiid and Simmons.

Milwaukee's success also relies on how well coach bud would manage this team in the postseason, not just giannis being a tough freight train for them.

I don't think so.

He is like a David Robinson. Franchise player in contention for the MVP and can win a ring with the right teammates and coach. Top 20-30 sounds very reasonable. Top 5... I don't see that potential.

[QUOTE=tpols;14032633]that's such a bullshit rule anyway... what's the logic behind it?[/QUOTE]

Open the lane up to let players get easy looks at the basket. We all saw him get exposed in international play, and by the Raptors.